Why do boxers wake up at 4:30am in the morning to run?

I realise its a mental strategy to prepare for the fight but couldn't it wait till during the day? :confused:

Surely a goodnights sleep is the most important thing! :cool:

Not all boxers do. Tyson used to get up early because he said it gave him the psycological edge over his opponent knowing they weren't doing it.

Also the air is cleaner at that time due to less traffic and therefore less polution to the lungs and cleaner breathing.

^Good answer.

I always wondered this myself, surely if you are putting your body through the kind of physical and emotional stress one goes through while training for a fighter, a good night's sleep would be essential.

I think its a psycological thing.

I preffer a good nights sleep tbh.

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Originally Posted by rjj tszyu

Not all boxers do. Tyson used to get up early because he said it gave him the psycological edge over his opponent knowing they weren't doing it.

Also the air is cleaner at that time due to less traffic and therefore less polution to the lungs and cleaner breathing.

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That is right on the money. Do you realize how much shit is in the air at 4:30 in the afternoon as opposed to 4:30 in the morning.I don't want to get all global warming happy on ya but do the math this is the main reason.

Running very early in the morning, before taking in any foods forces the body into a catabolic state - eating itself.

This means at the start of training when a fighter may have a few extra pounds it is an excellent method of cutting fat.
Nearer to the fight these long early runs will be dropped in favour of short-fast carb fuelled runs.

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Originally Posted by The Fightfan

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Originally Posted by rjj tszyu

Not all boxers do. Tyson used to get up early because he said it gave him the psycological edge over his opponent knowing they weren't doing it.

Also the air is cleaner at that time due to less traffic and therefore less polution to the lungs and cleaner breathing.

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That is right on the money. Do you realize how much shit is in the air at 4:30 in the afternoon as opposed to 4:30 in the morning.I don't want to get all global warming happy on ya but do the math this is the main reason.

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Fighters have been running in the morning for years even before pollution was invented ;D

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Originally Posted by hitmandonny

Running very early in the morning, before taking in any foods forces the body into a catabolic state - eating itself.

This means at the start of training when a fighter may have a few extra pounds it is an excellent method of cutting fat.
Nearer to the fight these long early runs will be dropped in favour of short-fast carb fuelled runs.

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I never knew this. Rep for teaching me something.

They like to steal milk off doorsteps.

Since people buy it in the shops now, early morning runs are less popular.

"I listen to my body" is their excuse now !

It's also much cooler at night or early in the morning. I couldn't jog in the heat, i overheated and found it much too uncomfortable and unhealthy,so i started jogging in the evening or nighttime when the sun went down.

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Originally Posted by awdleyfuturehalloffamer

It's also much cooler at night or early in the morning. I couldn't jog in the heat, i overheated and found it much too uncomfortable and unhealthy,so i started jogging in the evening or nighttime when the sun went down.

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This is what I thought. I'm not exactly Manny Pacquiao but I do do a fair bit of running and when I do I like it to be before 7 AM just because it's cooler then and jogging in the heat sucks especially when you live at altitude like me. I can see the cutting weight thing, I personally don't go out without at the very least a banana or something.

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Originally Posted by amat

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Originally Posted by awdleyfuturehalloffamer

It's also much cooler at night or early in the morning. I couldn't jog in the heat, i overheated and found it much too uncomfortable and unhealthy,so i started jogging in the evening or nighttime when the sun went down.

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This is what I thought. I'm not exactly Manny Pacquiao but I do do a fair bit of running and when I do I like it to be before 7 AM just because it's cooler then and jogging in the heat sucks especially when you live at altitude like me. I can see the cutting weight thing, I personally don't go out without at the very least a banana or something.

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Bananas are very good for having before a run too as they are a fast source of energy and easy to burn off.

I dunno. Sometimes I wake up at 4:30, but it is usually to go for a pee then right back to bed. I suppose the smog factor isa factor depending on where you live, but I live on the shores of Lake Superior so can pretty much get the best air on the planet on any given breath.

If it gives someone a psychological edge, so be it. I'd rather run rested, nourished and ready.

p.s. I think The Fightfans avatar is awesome. :)

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Originally Posted by hitmandonny

Running very early in the morning, before taking in any foods forces the body into a catabolic state - eating itself.

This means at the start of training when a fighter may have a few extra pounds it is an excellent method of cutting fat.
Nearer to the fight these long early runs will be dropped in favour of short-fast carb fuelled runs.

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Most people think they shouldnt eat before exercise because they will burn more fat and calories that way. While this is somewhat true, and can be usefull when trying to cut weight fast (like donny said), it can also force your body into a catabolic state (again like donny said). Besides, you dont burn that much fat/calories during an hour or two of exercise. You lose fat because the exercise causes a boost in your metabolism. Which causes the body to burn calories faster, and use food as fuel much better for hours after exercise. This way there is much less catabolizing of your hard earned muscle.

I personally like to eat a solid meal about an hour and a half before a workout, but i know a lot of people that like to have a small meal of quick carbs (gateorade, fruit or juice) and fast protein (whey) about half hour before a workout.

This is especially true for anyone trying to add muscle.

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Originally Posted by hitmandonny

Running very early in the morning, before taking in any foods forces the body into a catabolic state - eating itself.

This means at the start of training when a fighter may have a few extra pounds it is an excellent method of cutting fat.
Nearer to the fight these long early runs will be dropped in favour of short-fast carb fuelled runs.

---

Well, I dont see why you can't just wake up at normal time and do your running before breakfast.
Same thing

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Originally Posted by boxer1234

Well, I dont see why you can't just wake up at normal time and do your running before breakfast.
Same thing

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Most boxers work full time and go to the boxing gym after work. So getting their roadwork in early is the best option.

It could be any time obv.

I think it has more to do with them having to go hard at the gym later. Gym work would be a lot harder coming fresh off of a 5+ mile run and the straight into the gym. If you get your run in early you can have some time for your legs to rest then get into the gym for another workout. I know I wouldnt be able to go through a couple of hours of doing bag work, focus mits, sparring, skipping rope, etc.... if I just got done running.

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Originally Posted by hitmandonny

Running very early in the morning, before taking in any foods forces the body into a catabolic state - eating itself.

This means at the start of training when a fighter may have a few extra pounds it is an excellent method of cutting fat.
Nearer to the fight these long early runs will be dropped in favour of short-fast carb fuelled runs.

---

Training in a catabolic state is a bad idea.

I'll be going into it in my other thread when i get chance.

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Originally Posted by ono

Quote:

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Originally Posted by hitmandonny

Running very early in the morning, before taking in any foods forces the body into a catabolic state - eating itself.

This means at the start of training when a fighter may have a few extra pounds it is an excellent method of cutting fat.
Nearer to the fight these long early runs will be dropped in favour of short-fast carb fuelled runs.

---

Training in a catabolic state is a bad idea.

I'll be going into it in my other thread when i get chance.

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Your body pretty much uses up most of its glucose while you're sleeping, this is the first major source of energy that you use when you go for a run. If you fresh out of glucose, then your body will start converting the protein from your muscles into energy to burn. Moreover, it takes your body takes a few hours after waking to be ready to go full throttle with any vigorous exercise. In the morning your blood is little thicker than it is later in the day, this would mean your heart rate or blood pressure be higher than it would be if you were running in the afternoon.

However, there's more to consider. If you can't run at any other time but in the morning, then the benefits of running would far outweight the any loss of muscle mass. You could also also minimize the effects of catabolism by consuming some simple carbs, protein as well as amino acids and then giving your body enough time to get it in your system before you go and run.

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Originally Posted by Chris Nagel

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Originally Posted by ono

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Originally Posted by hitmandonny

Running very early in the morning, before taking in any foods forces the body into a catabolic state - eating itself.

This means at the start of training when a fighter may have a few extra pounds it is an excellent method of cutting fat.
Nearer to the fight these long early runs will be dropped in favour of short-fast carb fuelled runs.

---

Training in a catabolic state is a bad idea.

I'll be going into it in my other thread when i get chance.

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Your body pretty much uses up most of its glucose while you're sleeping, this is the first major source of energy that you use when you go for a run. If you fresh out of glucose, then your body will start converting the protein from your muscles into energy to burn. Moreover, it takes your body takes a few hours after waking to be ready to go full throttle with any vigorous exercise. In the morning your blood is little thicker than it is later in the day, this would mean your heart rate or blood pressure be higher than it would be if you were running in the afternoon.

However, there's more to consider. If you can't run at any other time but in the morning, then the benefits of running would far outweight the any loss of muscle mass. You could also also minimize the effects of catabolism by consuming some simple carbs, protein as well as amino acids and then giving your body enough time to get it in your system before you go and run.

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Pretty much said everything i was going to say.

:)

Are you a coach Chris Nagel?

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Originally Posted by boxer1234

Are you a coach Chris Nagel?

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He prefers to be called Mr. Nail Gun. :)

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Originally Posted by boxer1234

Are you a coach Chris Nagel?

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No.

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Originally Posted by boxer1234

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Originally Posted by hitmandonny

Running very early in the morning, before taking in any foods forces the body into a catabolic state - eating itself.

This means at the start of training when a fighter may have a few extra pounds it is an excellent method of cutting fat.
Nearer to the fight these long early runs will be dropped in favour of short-fast carb fuelled runs.

---

Well, I dont see why you can't just wake up at normal time and do your running before breakfast.
Same thing

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Not the same thing.

Above Chris Nagel has illustrated to us how the body consumes our glucose stores during the night.

Furthermore, roadwork is tiresome. The body is tired after it's completion.
Assuming that a professional boxer will train 2 or 3 times a day, periods of rest are needed between workouts - alowing sufficient time for recovery.
The simple fact that 2 hours before training is the optimum meal time portrays the time constraints on a nutritionally concious boxer.

Pure masochism
No actually,alot of boxers still have jobs,you got to get a good run,get a shower,get cleaned up and punch in at the factory

I know the Kenyan marathon runners always go for a jog before breakfast to help keep their weight down. These guys don't want to bulk up under any circumstances though!

I'd agree it is easier to loose weight by exercising before eating breakfast and for those of us who are not great time managers it's always less stressfult to get conditioning work done in the morning - it's done before other things can complicate your day.

One thing i'm not sure of is whether or not it's a good idea to ever do weight training in the morning?

I was reading through a mag where a heap of olympic athletes described their day and they all did their weight training at night.

Is this because more anaerobic exercise aims to build muscle/strength and muscle repair happens overnight?

I'm not sure why it would be different to recovering from aerobic exercise to be honest!

I have to admit though i can recover enough from a run to function during the day but after a hard weights session I'll be tired and want to sleep for the rest of the day if i do it in the morning!

I'd love to know why if anyone can tell me?

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Originally Posted by Sharla

I know the Kenyan marathon runners always go for a jog before breakfast to help keep their weight down. These guys don't want to bulk up under any circumstances though!

I'd agree it is easier to loose weight by exercising before eating breakfast and for those of us who are not great time managers it's always less stressfult to get conditioning work done in the morning - it's done before other things can complicate your day.

One thing i'm not sure of is whether or not it's a good idea to ever do weight training in the morning?

I was reading through a mag where a heap of olympic athletes described their day and they all did their weight training at night.

Is this because more anaerobic exercise aims to build muscle/strength and muscle repair happens overnight?

I'm not sure why it would be different to recovering from aerobic exercise to be honest!

I have to admit though i can recover enough from a run to function during the day but after a hard weights session I'll be tired and want to sleep for the rest of the day if i do it in the morning!

I'd love to know why if anyone can tell me?

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I can't actually answer your question on the subject Sharla but I can offer a theory.

The Irish rugby team (who flunked so spectacularly in the last world cup) always do their weight training in the morning.

I believe if weight training is done in the morning, the muscle ios more likely to wear and tear, perhaps even depreciate during later sessions that day, even if they take supplementation.

If weight trainiung is done at night, you've got a long rest period and supplements will not be consumed by anything over the night assuming they have a big glucose meal before bed.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sharla

I know the Kenyan marathon runners always go for a jog before breakfast to help keep their weight down. These guys don't want to bulk up under any circumstances though!

I'd agree it is easier to loose weight by exercising before eating breakfast and for those of us who are not great time managers it's always less stressfult to get conditioning work done in the morning - it's done before other things can complicate your day.

One thing i'm not sure of is whether or not it's a good idea to ever do weight training in the morning?

I was reading through a mag where a heap of olympic athletes described their day and they all did their weight training at night.

Is this because more anaerobic exercise aims to build muscle/strength and muscle repair happens overnight?

I'm not sure why it would be different to recovering from aerobic exercise to be honest!

I have to admit though i can recover enough from a run to function during the day but after a hard weights session I'll be tired and want to sleep for the rest of the day if i do it in the morning!

I'd love to know why if anyone can tell me?

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There are pros and cons to both really. Training first thing in the morning can be bad as the intesnity of the work out may suffer. Weight training first thing on a morning without eating beforehand is is also a bad idea....for pretty much the same reason as running is, except the aim of weight-training is presumably to build muscle. So clearly, weight-training on an empty stomach would be a bad idea.

The problem with training late at night can be the fact that you are likely to go to bed without a proper post workout nutrition plan. Glycogen stores are likely to be quite low, so if you don't have enough stored gylcogen to meet basic energy needs while you are sleeping, you will most likely sacrifice muscle as this will be broken down and used for fuel.

One of the most important components of a weight lifting programme is to have adequate pre-workout and post workout nutrition plans in place. So the best time to weight-train would ideally be around 2-3 hours after a high carbohydrate (low GI) meal, and to have the workout finished at least 3-5 hours before going to bed. The 3-5 hours are important as this gives you adequate time to replenish glycogen stores. Aim to eat around 1g carbs per kg of bodyweight, every 1-2 hours for a maximum of 5 hours.

So the average 70kg athlete would require 70g of carbs every 1-2 hours after intense training. Remember that everybody is different so it may be necessary to lower the 70g figure, if fat gain becomes a problem. However this is quite unlikely if glycogen stores are depleted quite substantially. Trial and error may be required to find out what works best for you.

I think it's about weighing up the pros and cons of the sitaution really. If weight reaining can only be fit in late at night then it's still better than not doing it all. If you weight-train in the morning, it's definitely a good idea to eat a high carbohydrate meal beforehand (with some protein).

I'm going into post-workout nutrition a bit later on today in my thread anyway for those who are interested.

I have always done my weight training in the morning, but i always eat an hour and a half before. I feel like i have more energy then (as opposed to after a long day at work).

I also like it because then i have the whole day to eat, rest and recover knowing that i have done what i needed to do for the day. Then i will do some cardio later in the day.

It always makes me feel better after a morning workout, and i feel it energizes me for the rest of the day. On those days when i feel slugish or tired a good workout can really give me a boost.

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Originally Posted by wesrman

I have always done my weight training in the morning, but i always eat an hour and a half before. I feel like i have more energy then (as opposed to after a long day at work).

I also like it because then i have the whole day to eat, rest and recover knowing that i have done what i needed to do for the day. Then i will do some cardio later in the day.

It always makes me feel better after a morning workout, and i feel it energizes me for the rest of the day. On those days when i feel slugish or tired a good workout can really give me a boost.

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The upside of training quite early is the fact that you have the rest of the day to work with in regards to glycogen replenishment. Definitely good idea to eat beforehand....like you do.

Weightlifting in the morning is fine

Just means you will have more time to recovery because you got a whole day ahead of you and alot of time before your next workout. Also you can eat alot to help the muscle grow within the day and not just overnight.

Workout 11am:

Have 6 meals throughout the day

11pm: Sleep

Next day:

11am: u train again

It's fine providing you have eaten beforehand and have allowed adequate time for digestion.

I think 1 of the main reasons for getting up that early is discipline,I went through a stage a few months ago at getting up at 05.30,it put me in the right frame of mind for the rest of the days training.The other key point which has been metioned is it ables u to get more training in during the day,and if u go to bed early,your still going to get a good nights sleep.

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Originally Posted by boxer1234

I realise its a mental strategy to prepare for the fight but couldn't it wait till during the day? :confused:

Surely a goodnights sleep is the most important thing! :cool:

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I would only get up early to run on SOME days, but not every day.

You are lucky. Ask the trainer is the closest I get to training.

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Originally Posted by hitmandonny

I can't actually answer your question on the subject Sharla but I can offer a theory.

The Irish rugby team (who flunked so spectacularly in the last world cup) always do their weight training in the morning.

I believe if weight training is done in the morning, the muscle ios more likely to wear and tear, perhaps even depreciate during later sessions that day, even if they take supplementation.

If weight trainiung is done at night, you've got a long rest period and supplements will not be consumed by anything over the night assuming they have a big glucose meal before bed.

---

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ono

There are pros and cons to both really. Training first thing in the morning can be bad as the intesnity of the work out may suffer. Weight training first thing on a morning without eating beforehand is is also a bad idea....for pretty much the same reason as running is, except the aim of weight-training is presumably to build muscle. So clearly, weight-training on an empty stomach would be a bad idea.

The problem with training late at night can be the fact that you are likely to go to bed without a proper post workout nutrition plan. Glycogen stores are likely to be quite low, so if you don't have enough stored gylcogen to meet basic energy needs while you are sleeping, you will most likely sacrifice muscle as this will be broken down and used for fuel.

One of the most important components of a weight lifting programme is to have adequate pre-workout and post workout nutrition plans in place. So the best time to weight-train would ideally be around 2-3 hours after a high carbohydrate (low GI) meal, and to have the workout finished at least 3-5 hours before going to bed. The 3-5 hours are important as this gives you adequate time to replenish glycogen stores. Aim to eat around 1g carbs per kg of bodyweight, every 1-2 hours for a maximum of 5 hours.

So the average 70kg athlete would require 70g of carbs every 1-2 hours after intense training. Remember that everybody is different so it may be necessary to lower the 70g figure, if fat gain becomes a problem. However this is quite unlikely if glycogen stores are depleted quite substantially. Trial and error may be required to find out what works best for you.

I think it's about weighing up the pros and cons of the sitaution really. If weight reaining can only be fit in late at night then it's still better than not doing it all. If you weight-train in the morning, it's definitely a good idea to eat a high carbohydrate meal beforehand (with some protein).

I'm going into post-workout nutrition a bit later on today in my thread anyway for those who are interested.

---

Quote:

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Originally Posted by wesrman

I have always done my weight training in the morning, but i always eat an hour and a half before. I feel like i have more energy then (as opposed to after a long day at work).

I also like it because then i have the whole day to eat, rest and recover knowing that i have done what i needed to do for the day. Then i will do some cardio later in the day.

It always makes me feel better after a morning workout, and i feel it energizes me for the rest of the day. On those days when i feel slugish or tired a good workout can really give me a boost.

---

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ono

Quote:

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Originally Posted by wesrman

I have always done my weight training in the morning, but i always eat an hour and a half before. I feel like i have more energy then (as opposed to after a long day at work).

I also like it because then i have the whole day to eat, rest and recover knowing that i have done what i needed to do for the day. Then i will do some cardio later in the day.

It always makes me feel better after a morning workout, and i feel it energizes me for the rest of the day. On those days when i feel slugish or tired a good workout can really give me a boost.

---

The upside of training quite early is the fact that you have the rest of the day to work with in regards to glycogen replenishment. Definitely good idea to eat beforehand....like you do.

---

Thanks and rep to you all for answering (sorry Donny have to spread it still) -

I'm wondering if since glycogen stores are mentioned a lot here and that's replentished mostly by simple and complex carbohydrates that is suited to aerobic morning trainings? I mean glycogen utilized more in aerobic exercise surely?

Yet muscle repair is obvisouly a big thing for weights and that requires protein. So if you're being fairly strict diet wise and limiting carbs at night then you can still consume enough protein to make sure you recover from a weights session with less risk of consuming excess carbs and having difficulty staying lean?

Also werman I'm wondering if you generally prefer weights to cardio too? I will do weight training but secretly don't really like it even a 10th as much as I like cardio training. Maybe the reason I like cardio training more (or because I like it more) is because I naturally recover from it quickly.

I have a lightish build and being female also will not have the same capacity to build muscle etc so it takes more out of me? Maybe what suits best is sometimes an individual thing? I know larger bulky guys will often find running and cardio less comfortable for example?

Anyway I'm still nutting out how all these things fit together and will need to reread all your posts at some stage so thanks for the input! :)

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Originally Posted by Sharla

Quote:

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Originally Posted by hitmandonny

I can't actually answer your question on the subject Sharla but I can offer a theory.

The Irish rugby team (who flunked so spectacularly in the last world cup) always do their weight training in the morning.

I believe if weight training is done in the morning, the muscle ios more likely to wear and tear, perhaps even depreciate during later sessions that day, even if they take supplementation.

If weight trainiung is done at night, you've got a long rest period and supplements will not be consumed by anything over the night assuming they have a big glucose meal before bed.

---

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ono

There are pros and cons to both really. Training first thing in the morning can be bad as the intesnity of the work out may suffer. Weight training first thing on a morning without eating beforehand is is also a bad idea....for pretty much the same reason as running is, except the aim of weight-training is presumably to build muscle. So clearly, weight-training on an empty stomach would be a bad idea.

The problem with training late at night can be the fact that you are likely to go to bed without a proper post workout nutrition plan. Glycogen stores are likely to be quite low, so if you don't have enough stored gylcogen to meet basic energy needs while you are sleeping, you will most likely sacrifice muscle as this will be broken down and used for fuel.

One of the most important components of a weight lifting programme is to have adequate pre-workout and post workout nutrition plans in place. So the best time to weight-train would ideally be around 2-3 hours after a high carbohydrate (low GI) meal, and to have the workout finished at least 3-5 hours before going to bed. The 3-5 hours are important as this gives you adequate time to replenish glycogen stores. Aim to eat around 1g carbs per kg of bodyweight, every 1-2 hours for a maximum of 5 hours.

So the average 70kg athlete would require 70g of carbs every 1-2 hours after intense training. Remember that everybody is different so it may be necessary to lower the 70g figure, if fat gain becomes a problem. However this is quite unlikely if glycogen stores are depleted quite substantially. Trial and error may be required to find out what works best for you.

I think it's about weighing up the pros and cons of the sitaution really. If weight reaining can only be fit in late at night then it's still better than not doing it all. If you weight-train in the morning, it's definitely a good idea to eat a high carbohydrate meal beforehand (with some protein).

I'm going into post-workout nutrition a bit later on today in my thread anyway for those who are interested.

---

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ono

Quote:

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Originally Posted by wesrman

I have always done my weight training in the morning, but i always eat an hour and a half before. I feel like i have more energy then (as opposed to after a long day at work).

I also like it because then i have the whole day to eat, rest and recover knowing that i have done what i needed to do for the day. Then i will do some cardio later in the day.

It always makes me feel better after a morning workout, and i feel it energizes me for the rest of the day. On those days when i feel slugish or tired a good workout can really give me a boost.

---

The upside of training quite early is the fact that you have the rest of the day to work with in regards to glycogen replenishment. Definitely good idea to eat beforehand....like you do.

---

Thanks and rep to you all for answering (sorry Donny have to spread it still) -

I'm wondering if since glycogen stores are mentioned a lot here and that's replentished mostly by simple and complex carbohydrates that is suited to aerobic morning trainings? I mean glycogen utilized more in aerobic exercise surely?

Yet muscle repair is obvisouly a big thing for weights and that requires protein. So if you're being fairly strict diet wise and limiting carbs at night then you can still consume enough protein to make sure you recover from a weights session with less risk of consuming excess carbs and having difficulty staying lean?

Also werman I'm wondering if you generally prefer weights to cardio too? I will do weight training but secretly don't really like it even a 10th as much as I like cardio training. Maybe the reason I like cardio training more (or because I like it more) is because I naturally recover from it quickly.

I have a lightish build and being female also will not have the same capacity to build muscle etc so it takes more out of me? Maybe what suits best is sometimes an individual thing? I know larger bulky guys will often find running and cardio less comfortable for example?

Anyway I'm still nutting out how all these things fit together and will need to reread all your posts at some stage so thanks for the input! :)

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Generally speaking, the higher the exercise intensity, the greater the reliance on muscle glycogen.

During anaerobic exercise (sprints, heavy weight-training etc...) muscle gylcogen , rather than fat, is the major fuel.

During aerobic exercise, you will use a mixture of muslce glycogen and fat, for fuel. Exercise at a low intensity is fulled mainly by fat. As the exercise increases, you will begin to use a higher proportion of muscle glycogen than fat. Moderate intensity exercise (50-70 % volume max), muscle glycogen supplies about half of fuel...the rest coming from fat. If your intensity exceeds about 70% max effort, fat cannot be broken down and transported fast enough to meet energy needs, so muscle gylcogen provides at least 75% ish of your energy needs.

Carbohydrates at night is a debatable subject. If muscle glycogen levels are low because you haven't re-fuelled sufficiently, fat gain is not an issue. Consumed carbohydrates will go to replenishing glycogen levels. Fat gain is only a worry if glycogen levels are full and you continue to consume carbohydrate during a period where they aren't required for exercise.

Protein is important for muscle repair but the guidelines provided in fitness magazines/websites etc... that tell you to eat ludicrous amounts of protein are misinformed. An absolute maximum of 2g per kg bodyweight should be consumed daily. Excess protein cannot be stored, therefore it must be broken down into waste products. Each amino acid has an amino group and an acid group. The amino group contains nitrogen, which is first converted to ammonia, then to urea where it passes from the liver to the kidneys...where it is pee'd out. The acid group is converted to carbohydrate and used for energy. Any excess will be stored as bodyfat.

You will not recover from a weight-training session by limiting carbohydrate. Eventually protein will have to be broken down and used for fuel as there will be a lack of muscle glycogen.

I think people get worried about consuming carbohydrates because of all the fad diets out there. I was reading today about a swimmer in the olympics who consumes 12,000 cals a day. That's a lot, and he has very low bodyfat levels.

If you're exercising daily and intensely carbohydrates are very important.

Anyway i'm not even sure if i've answered your questions...i've just ranted. Anyway hope you find it quite helpful. :)

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Originally Posted by ono

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sharla

Quote:

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Originally Posted by hitmandonny

I can't actually answer your question on the subject Sharla but I can offer a theory.

The Irish rugby team (who flunked so spectacularly in the last world cup) always do their weight training in the morning.

I believe if weight training is done in the morning, the muscle ios more likely to wear and tear, perhaps even depreciate during later sessions that day, even if they take supplementation.

If weight trainiung is done at night, you've got a long rest period and supplements will not be consumed by anything over the night assuming they have a big glucose meal before bed.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by ono

The upside of training quite early is the fact that you have the rest of the day to work with in regards to glycogen replenishment. Definitely good idea to eat beforehand....like you do.

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Thanks and rep to you all for answering (sorry Donny have to spread it still) -

I'm wondering if since glycogen stores are mentioned a lot here and that's replentished mostly by simple and complex carbohydrates that is suited to aerobic morning trainings? I mean glycogen utilized more in aerobic exercise surely?

Yet muscle repair is obvisouly a big thing for weights and that requires protein. So if you're being fairly strict diet wise and limiting carbs at night then you can still consume enough protein to make sure you recover from a weights session with less risk of consuming excess carbs and having difficulty staying lean?

Also werman I'm wondering if you generally prefer weights to cardio too? I will do weight training but secretly don't really like it even a 10th as much as I like cardio training. Maybe the reason I like cardio training more (or because I like it more) is because I naturally recover from it quickly.

I have a lightish build and being female also will not have the same capacity to build muscle etc so it takes more out of me? Maybe what suits best is sometimes an individual thing? I know larger bulky guys will often find running and cardio less comfortable for example?

Anyway I'm still nutting out how all these things fit together and will need to reread all your posts at some stage so thanks for the input! :)

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Generally speaking, the higher the exercise intensity, the greater the reliance on muscle glycogen.

During anaerobic exercise (sprints, heavy weight-training etc...) muscle gylcogen , rather than fat, is the major fuel.

During aerobic exercise, you will use a mixture of muslce glycogen and fat, for fuel. Exercise at a low intensity is fulled mainly by fat. As the exercise increases, you will begin to use a higher proportion of muscle glycogen than fat. Moderate intensity exercise (50-70 % volume max), muscle glycogen supplies about half of fuel...the rest coming from fat. If your intensity exceeds about 70% max effort, fat cannot be broken down and transported fast enough to meet energy needs, so muscle gylcogen provides at least 75% ish of your energy needs.

Carbohydrates at night is a debatable subject. If muscle glycogen levels are low because you haven't re-fuelled sufficiently, fat gain is not an issue. Consumed carbohydrates will go to replenishing glycogen levels. Fat gain is only a worry if glycogen levels are full and you continue to consume carbohydrate during a period where they aren't required for exercise.

Protein is important for muscle repair but the guidelines provided in fitness magazines/websites etc... that tell you to eat ludicrous amounts of protein are misinformed. An absolute maximum of 2g per kg bodyweight should be consumed daily. Excess protein cannot be stored, therefore it must be broken down into waste products. Each amino acid has an amino group and an acid group. The amino group contains nitrogen, which is first converted to ammonia, then to urea where it passes from the liver to the kidneys...where it is pee'd out. The acid group is converted to carbohydrate and used for energy. Any excess will be stored as bodyfat.

You will not recover from a weight-training session by limiting carbohydrate. Eventually protein will have to be broken down and used for fuel as there will be a lack of muscle glycogen.

I think people get worried about consuming carbohydrates because of all the fad diets out there. I was reading today about a swimmer in the olympics who consumes 12,000 cals a day. That's a lot, and he has very low bodyfat levels.

If you're exercising daily and intensely carbohydrates are very important.

Anyway i'm not even sure if i've answered your questions...i've just ranted. Anyway hope you find it quite helpful. :)

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Very interesting thanks Ono :)

You have answered my Qs I think. I don't know why I always assumed aerobic exercise would burn more glycogen - maybe because running tends to burn a lot of kilojules compared to weight training etc. Maybe I think that it will be more likely to empty glycogen stores in one session than weights - could that have any relevance?

I actually really got a lot out of your post though - wanted to rep you but I have to spread it!

Glad you started sharing all this thanks! :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sharla

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ono

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sharla

Thanks and rep to you all for answering (sorry Donny have to spread it still) -

I'm wondering if since glycogen stores are mentioned a lot here and that's replentished mostly by simple and complex carbohydrates that is suited to aerobic morning trainings? I mean glycogen utilized more in aerobic exercise surely?

Yet muscle repair is obvisouly a big thing for weights and that requires protein. So if you're being fairly strict diet wise and limiting carbs at night then you can still consume enough protein to make sure you recover from a weights session with less risk of consuming excess carbs and having difficulty staying lean?

Also werman I'm wondering if you generally prefer weights to cardio too? I will do weight training but secretly don't really like it even a 10th as much as I like cardio training. Maybe the reason I like cardio training more (or because I like it more) is because I naturally recover from it quickly.

I have a lightish build and being female also will not have the same capacity to build muscle etc so it takes more out of me? Maybe what suits best is sometimes an individual thing? I know larger bulky guys will often find running and cardio less comfortable for example?

Anyway I'm still nutting out how all these things fit together and will need to reread all your posts at some stage so thanks for the input! :)

---

Generally speaking, the higher the exercise intensity, the greater the reliance on muscle glycogen.

During anaerobic exercise (sprints, heavy weight-training etc...) muscle gylcogen , rather than fat, is the major fuel.

During aerobic exercise, you will use a mixture of muslce glycogen and fat, for fuel. Exercise at a low intensity is fulled mainly by fat. As the exercise increases, you will begin to use a higher proportion of muscle glycogen than fat. Moderate intensity exercise (50-70 % volume max), muscle glycogen supplies about half of fuel...the rest coming from fat. If your intensity exceeds about 70% max effort, fat cannot be broken down and transported fast enough to meet energy needs, so muscle gylcogen provides at least 75% ish of your energy needs.

Carbohydrates at night is a debatable subject. If muscle glycogen levels are low because you haven't re-fuelled sufficiently, fat gain is not an issue. Consumed carbohydrates will go to replenishing glycogen levels. Fat gain is only a worry if glycogen levels are full and you continue to consume carbohydrate during a period where they aren't required for exercise.

Protein is important for muscle repair but the guidelines provided in fitness magazines/websites etc... that tell you to eat ludicrous amounts of protein are misinformed. An absolute maximum of 2g per kg bodyweight should be consumed daily. Excess protein cannot be stored, therefore it must be broken down into waste products. Each amino acid has an amino group and an acid group. The amino group contains nitrogen, which is first converted to ammonia, then to urea where it passes from the liver to the kidneys...where it is pee'd out. The acid group is converted to carbohydrate and used for energy. Any excess will be stored as bodyfat.

You will not recover from a weight-training session by limiting carbohydrate. Eventually protein will have to be broken down and used for fuel as there will be a lack of muscle glycogen.

I think people get worried about consuming carbohydrates because of all the fad diets out there. I was reading today about a swimmer in the olympics who consumes 12,000 cals a day. That's a lot, and he has very low bodyfat levels.

If you're exercising daily and intensely carbohydrates are very important.

Anyway i'm not even sure if i've answered your questions...i've just ranted. Anyway hope you find it quite helpful. :)

---

Very interesting thanks Ono :)

You have answered my Qs I think. I don't know why I always assumed aerobic exercise would burn more glycogen - maybe because running tends to burn a lot of kilojules compared to weight training etc. Maybe I think that it will be more likely to empty glycogen stores in one session than weights - could that have any relevance?

I actually really got a lot out of your post though - wanted to rep you but I have to spread it!

Glad you started sharing all this thanks! :)

---

While the intensity of aerobic exercise is constant, the intensity is not so great that fat cannot be used for fuel.

Whereas in any exercise where you exceed 70% of maximum intensity, fat cannot be borken down and transported quick enough to meet energy demands...therefore Glycogen will provide your energy requirements.

So yeah running (for the same length of time as a weights session) will more likely burn more calories as fat can be used as a fuel and obviously fats are more calorie dense than carbohydrates (1gram fat = 9 cals / 1gram carbs = 4 cals). Again it does depend on the intensity....but in general that's what happens.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ono

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sharla

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ono

Generally speaking, the higher the exercise intensity, the greater the reliance on muscle glycogen.

During anaerobic exercise (sprints, heavy weight-training etc...) muscle gylcogen , rather than fat, is the major fuel.

During aerobic exercise, you will use a mixture of muslce glycogen and fat, for fuel. Exercise at a low intensity is fulled mainly by fat. As the exercise increases, you will begin to use a higher proportion of muscle glycogen than fat. Moderate intensity exercise (50-70 % volume max), muscle glycogen supplies about half of fuel...the rest coming from fat. If your intensity exceeds about 70% max effort, fat cannot be broken down and transported fast enough to meet energy needs, so muscle gylcogen provides at least 75% ish of your energy needs.

Carbohydrates at night is a debatable subject. If muscle glycogen levels are low because you haven't re-fuelled sufficiently, fat gain is not an issue. Consumed carbohydrates will go to replenishing glycogen levels. Fat gain is only a worry if glycogen levels are full and you continue to consume carbohydrate during a period where they aren't required for exercise.

Protein is important for muscle repair but the guidelines provided in fitness magazines/websites etc... that tell you to eat ludicrous amounts of protein are misinformed. An absolute maximum of 2g per kg bodyweight should be consumed daily. Excess protein cannot be stored, therefore it must be broken down into waste products. Each amino acid has an amino group and an acid group. The amino group contains nitrogen, which is first converted to ammonia, then to urea where it passes from the liver to the kidneys...where it is pee'd out. The acid group is converted to carbohydrate and used for energy. Any excess will be stored as bodyfat.

You will not recover from a weight-training session by limiting carbohydrate. Eventually protein will have to be broken down and used for fuel as there will be a lack of muscle glycogen.

I think people get worried about consuming carbohydrates because of all the fad diets out there. I was reading today about a swimmer in the olympics who consumes 12,000 cals a day. That's a lot, and he has very low bodyfat levels.

If you're exercising daily and intensely carbohydrates are very important.

Anyway i'm not even sure if i've answered your questions...i've just ranted. Anyway hope you find it quite helpful. :)

---

Very interesting thanks Ono :)

You have answered my Qs I think. I don't know why I always assumed aerobic exercise would burn more glycogen - maybe because running tends to burn a lot of kilojules compared to weight training etc. Maybe I think that it will be more likely to empty glycogen stores in one session than weights - could that have any relevance?

I actually really got a lot out of your post though - wanted to rep you but I have to spread it!

Glad you started sharing all this thanks! :)

---

While the intensity of aerobic exercise is constant, the intensity is not so great that fat cannot be used for fuel.

Whereas in any exercise where you exceed 70% of maximum intensity, fat cannot be borken down and transported quick enough to meet energy demands...therefore Glycogen will provide your energy requirements.

So yeah running (for the same length of time as a weights session) will more likely burn more calories as fat can be used as a fuel and obviously fats are more calorie dense than carbohydrates (1gram fat = 9 cals / 1gram carbs = 4 cals). Again it does depend on the intensity....but in general that's what happens.

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But don't you only burn fat at much lower intensities than the average run?

I mean I swear I've read in many running mags that you need to sort of 'train' your body to burn fat for fuel for long distance events because it will still preferentially burn glycogen and carbohydrates initially - it doesn't require as much energy to break them down as it does for fat.