-
Only 1 medal for the US
This is very depressing I had high hopes for Andrade,Warren and Wilder but it look's that Wilder will be the only one to walk away with a bronze thus far. The man he is fighting next like's very beatable I think Deontay will that fight after that it's the Cuban or Russian.
Besides the horrible scoring everyone is talking about. I think US boxing is in trouble.What Teddy Atlas and Bob Papa were talking about would be true.If the US team would bring an outsider in to teach these fighter's and to stop being so dependant on their old coaches for advice rather than man in front of them teaching them. Why is it that Deontay Wilder is getting a medal and is the least expierenced in the olympics because he's the only fighter who is listenening to his trainer in the Olympics. We heard it in the corner yesterday.Andrade just kind of nodded and said yes yes yes.Where as Wilder looked at his trainer dead in the eyes and just listenend. I believe this is the reason we are losing so badly these last few years. What do you think.
-
Re: Only 1 medal for the US
Surprised at how bad the US team have done
-
Re: Only 1 medal for the US
Communication seems to be a huge issue with the US squad, even leading up to the Olympics everything seemed incredibly haphazard. It really looks like they didn't train to the Olympic rules, just general training.
Really dissapointed with the showing, there is definately talent there, but the focus is not. Ironically the guy everyone was expecting to be out in the first round (Wilder) is having the most success.
Definately need to restructure this thing more for London 2012.
-
Re: Only 1 medal for the US
I think our Olympic canoeists are doing great.
None have gone missing so far.
-
Re: Only 1 medal for the US
In the vast majority of boxing gyms that American fighters start training, Olympic boxing is a bit looked down on. I've been told by trainers "I teach real boxing, pro-style." I think in most gyms, there is an emphasis on pro-style fighting, yeah, when they climb the amateur ranks and get the international level, they are at a disadvantage to teams who train their fighters from the start develop styles that result in better scoring with international rules.
Fightfan brings up a good point that the least experienced guy probably listens better. A lot of these guys have a chance to be much better pros than amateurs and a lot of the metal winners won't ever do anything at the pro level.
-
Re: Only 1 medal for the US
Quote:
Originally Posted by
plopeater
Surprised at how bad the US team have done
I'm not at all surprised ever since Mayweather Jr. was an amateur everyone tried to copy that bullshit style of his and it makes not only for piss poor boxing when people other than Floyd try it but it makes for piss poor boxers!
The slapping and pitterpat bullcrap our amateurs have to use to get wins is 100% the reason America can't develop proper amateur fighters.
Look at the Americans in the pro ranks today...the fighters with tons of amateur experience Domonick Guinn, Jermain Taylor, Jeff Lacy, Andre Ward, and Rocky Juarez vs the guys with little amateur experience Arreola, Chambers, Kelly Pavlik, The Peterson's, Chad Dawson, Paul Williams, Tavoris Cloud.
-
Re: Only 1 medal for the US
The Peterson's had little amateur experience ??? They both were top ranked amateurs and both favored to make the Olympic Squad but both lost in the box offs. Dawson too has a national title and had a good record but turned pro very young. I don't know the full extent of it but Pavlik wasn't a bad amateur either I know he went to the US championships which I believe is where Jermain Taylor beat him.
-
Re: Only 1 medal for the US
You Americans should count your blessings. Our (canadian) only guy got massacred! ;D
-
Re: Only 1 medal for the US
Quote:
Originally Posted by
amat
The Peterson's had little amateur experience ??? They both were top ranked amateurs and both favored to make the Olympic Squad but both lost in the box offs. Dawson too has a national title and had a good record but turned pro very young. I don't know the full extent of it but Pavlik wasn't a bad amateur either I know he went to the US championships which I believe is where Jermain Taylor beat him.
Pavlik was 89-9 ....not a lot of experience when compared to Guinn's 290-26 or Lacy's 209-12
Lamont and Anthony had bigger amateur records but no Olympics.
Chad Dawson's record was 67-13
So I fail to see where you think you are correct
-
Re: Only 1 medal for the US
Comparing amateur boxing to pro boxing is like comparing Arena football to the NFL. It's almost 2 completely different sports.
-
Re: Only 1 medal for the US
You said the Petersons had little amateur experience, that's where you were wrong. To say that most of those guys had little amateur experience is being naiive. The Olympics isn't the end all, the Petersons had just as much international competition as anyone on the Olympic team. The other guys had a bunch of competition at the national level too. Maybe not Cloud (I don't know) or Williams but I'm pretty sure all those other guys have plenty of amateur experience unless not going to the Olympics or having 200 fights means you have "little amateur experience."
-
Re: Only 1 medal for the US
Quote:
Originally Posted by
match
Comparing amateur boxing to pro boxing is like comparing Arena football to the NFL. It's almost 2 completely different sports.
Kind of but also totally different because being a good amateur boxer is supposed to make you a better pro boxer (as has been proven by history)
-
Re: Only 1 medal for the US
More to the point. The amateur system in the US just needs to be completely overhauled. Boxing isn't a team sport, you don't have to put these guys and make them conform to one coach in order to work together like you would basketball or soccer. Dan Campbell is more drill sargaent then boxing trainer and this has been known for a very long time. There is no reason to bring these guys together under one house and not let them work with their trainers who have been with them all their life. It's just a fundamentally flawed system.
Unfortunately, the only way the team is going to get any money is if that there work can be monitored so they should just let all the individual trainers in house. That's 11 trainers. Also, they need to push back their qualifiers so you don't get any more Gary Russell incidents.
I don't think it has to do with the pitter pat style, I just don't see it. Most of those pitter pat artists have been eliminated now. It's a lot better to watch towards the end and I still don't think that can be blamed for all their failures over the last 12 years. There are plenty of good pros who were great international amateurs, if you are good enough it doesn't matter the style you can win. There is no reason Raushee Warren or Andrade should have lost those bouts, the Olympic style didn't work against them they did. Oh well I was a bit heartbroken at both as I've been following both for quite some time.
As Killer Sheep said, the one guy from this squad people counted out was Wilder and look what he's done. And that's me included, I was never impressed with him and still think he's taking advantage of a weak draw but plenty of guys had weak draws and he's the only one to do something with it.
I really hope De La Hoya can get this turned around. Campbell has got to go and will go, there is just no way he sticks around. I think they just provide conditioning coaches and all the back the team needs and give the option for the trainers to join them in Colorado Springs because they might get away from Campbell but they won't get away from Colorado Springs. If the trainers don't go, they need to sign their fighters to whoever will be training them instead of undermining the other coaches' efforts. Instruct their fighters to listen to the trainers at the grounds, because people blame the fighters for not listening but that's just as much on the trainers back home as it is the fighters.
Bit devastated, I was really looking for these to be a rebound games for America but it's probably better that it's not, it'll get the program rebuilt and hopefully rebuilt correctly.
-
Re: Only 1 medal for the US
Holyfield had some interesting things to say about the squad, i must look out that article.
-
Re: Only 1 medal for the US
I dont know how they work in the States. But somethings happened and not for the better. Years ago there was a conveyor belt, its stopped. Having said that the Amatuer game now is so far removed from the Pros, as someone said its Fencing with Gumshields, no flair is ecouraged. Im finding it hard to watch. Have the numbers doing it dried up in America.
-
Re: Only 1 medal for the US
At least the USA had a team. Unlike us with our one man team. :(
-
Re: Only 1 medal for the US
People aren't being fair to the american team, way too much emphasis was put on these games, especially since the scoring, refing was horrible, and how the fights were ref'ed took away from the US's physical advantages.
Just look at the worlds if you think they weren't good. Its been how much of a piece of crap the olympic boxing has been, not the quality of american boxing.
-
Re: Only 1 medal for the US
Quote:
Originally Posted by
wesrman
At least the USA had a team. Unlike us with our one man team. :(
Sorry, Canada + Fighting just seems like such an odd pairing to begin with ;)
-
Re: Only 1 medal for the US
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Lyle
Quote:
Originally Posted by
wesrman
At least the USA had a team. Unlike us with our one man team. :(
Sorry, Canada + Fighting just seems like such an odd pairing to begin with ;)
LOL look up our history. We owned you guys once. :P
Also see hockey fights, Vimmy Ridge and Georges St Pierre. :)
:woot22:
-
Re: Only 1 medal for the US
Quote:
Originally Posted by
wesrman
LOL look up our history. We owned you guys once. :P
Also see hockey fights, Vimmy Ridge and Georges St Pierre. :)
:woot22:
You also brought Cirque Du Solae to the World.....gee thanks, GOD YOU ARE LAME!!!!
Except for Jason Bay and your comedians....keep up the good work in that area!
-
Re: Only 1 medal for the US
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Lyle
Quote:
Originally Posted by
wesrman
LOL look up our history. We owned you guys once. :P
Also see hockey fights, Vimmy Ridge and Georges St Pierre. :)
:woot22:
You also brought Cirque Du Solae to the World.....gee thanks, GOD YOU ARE LAME!!!!
Except for Jason Bay and your comedians....keep up the good work in that area!
Circ is from Quebec. I cant controll those fuckers. :)
Whos Jason Bay??
-
Re: Only 1 medal for the US
Jason Bay plays Left Field for the Boston Red Sox...he's done a fine job replacing Manny Ramierez considering Manny is a Hall of Famer
-
Re: Only 1 medal for the US
LOL @ Man Ram.
He needs to trim his lettuce.
-
Re: Only 1 medal for the US
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Lyle
Quote:
Originally Posted by
wesrman
At least the USA had a team. Unlike us with our one man team. :(
Sorry, Canada + Fighting just seems like such an odd pairing to begin with ;)
Hey at least we don't spend endless amounts of money into sports only to get our asses handed to us by the chinese. This olympics marks the end of American dominance in any sense. Then we will see how good you guys do with all the "adoration" the rest of the world has for the states.
-
Re: Only 1 medal for the US
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Taeth
Hey at least we don't spend endless amounts of money into sports only to get our asses handed to us by the chinese. This olympics marks the end of American dominance in any sense. Then we will see how good you guys do with all the "adoration" the rest of the world has for the states.
Taeth...WE don't pour money into sports, American COMPANIES spend money on sports.
America feels no "adoration"...why??? because America tries to be the good guy and why doesn't Russia or China feel the heat that the USA does??? Because they never try to be the good guy and therefore no one says "China/Russia please help us" but oh the fucking Earth would STAND STILL if the US didn't help somebody.....GO FUCK YOURSELF.
-
Re: Only 1 medal for the US
the best american athletes are not going into boxing.
-
Re: Only 1 medal for the US
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Lyle
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Taeth
Hey at least we don't spend endless amounts of money into sports only to get our asses handed to us by the chinese. This olympics marks the end of American dominance in any sense. Then we will see how good you guys do with all the "adoration" the rest of the world has for the states.
Taeth...WE don't pour money into sports, American COMPANIES spend money on sports.
America feels no "adoration"...why??? because America tries to be the good guy and why doesn't Russia or China feel the heat that the USA does??? Because they never try to be the good guy and therefore no one says "China/Russia please help us" but oh the fucking Earth would STAND STILL if the US didn't help somebody.....GO FUCK YOURSELF.
lol, I was joking, chill out. On a more serious note, America imposes its will on every country in the world, and thats why its disliked. Also if you see what United States has done in central america for the past century you would know that AMerica a huge hypocrit in many, many ways. THen there are the rich assholes who misrepresent americans around the world. Regardless America is represented by the elite class of the country, that doens't anything in reality, but the head of the States is retarded and thus it has not bode well for international reputation.
-
Re: Only 1 medal for the US
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Lyle
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Taeth
Hey at least we don't spend endless amounts of money into sports only to get our asses handed to us by the chinese. This olympics marks the end of American dominance in any sense. Then we will see how good you guys do with all the "adoration" the rest of the world has for the states.
Taeth...WE don't pour money into sports, American COMPANIES spend money on sports.
America feels no "adoration"...why??? because America tries to be the good guy and why doesn't Russia or China feel the heat that the USA does??? Because they never try to be the good guy and therefore no one says "China/Russia please help us" but oh the fucking Earth would STAND STILL if the US didn't help somebody.....GO FUCK YOURSELF.
ALso what the fuck are you talking about China or Russia haven't felt the heat United States does? Look at the bad press Russia has gotten over the cold war, etc, etc. Half the world still thinks they are communists bend on world destruction.
HAve you seen the news lately, have you read into the Tibet thing at all? China gets plenty of bad press and its all well deserved.
-
Re: Only 1 medal for the US
After watching that fight Friday.I just stopped watching Olympic boxing due to that fight.Deontay Wilder did wait too long but the punches that were scored for the Italian were insane.The first point that landed didn't the second didn't.I seen three jabs right on the chin from Wilder not get scored when I watched the rest of the fight and the Italian was getting ridiculous points for nothing. All and all at the end of the day I had a 6 to 6 tie. We do need a complete overhaul of olympic boxing this sport is the worst sport in the olympics. I mean my god people I enjoyed table tennis honest to god TABLE TENNIS people more than olympic boxing.They have taken this pure sport and made it into a 1 punch grab sport equivalent to wrestling. I maybe over reacting but I will not be interested in the USA team in London.
-
Re: Only 1 medal for the US
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Taeth
ALso what the fuck are you talking about China or Russia haven't felt the heat United States does? Look at the bad press Russia has gotten over the cold war, etc, etc. Half the world still thinks they are communists bend on world destruction.
HAve you seen the news lately, have you read into the Tibet thing at all? China gets plenty of bad press and its all well deserved.
BUT RUSSIA DOESN'T CARE....hey We're America, we like you, we're easy to get along with, could you just give us some fucking slack?
-
Re: Only 1 medal for the US
I think a few of the US boxers were very unlucky especially Demetrius Andrade who lost highly controversial decision to that Korean boxer if i remember rightly.........
I thought Demetrius Andrade was landing alot of good shots but wern't scored and i thought he clearly won but got robbed and Raushee Warren was also very unlucky........
I don't think the USA boxing team were that poor i just think they were a bit unlucky in some of there fights but thats Amateur boxing for you a majority of the contests are controversial.
