Should Michael Nunn be in the Hall?

Style: When you think of Nunn, you think of words like stylist, speed, sharp reflexes, great technique, and solid defensive skills...but he also had an unappreciated ability to take out his opponents with power punching….and the record bears this out. He was a rangy and slick left-handed boxer who gave his opponents fits and was a master of the slip and slide move. These were his trademarks in the ring and provided great entertainment. Unfortunately, his career defining fight ended by a sudden and brutal knockout at the hands of James Toney in a fight that affirmed Toney's nick name of "Lights Out."

Let's look more closely at his chronology and see how his body of work stacks up
Record: An outstanding one at 58 - 4 with 37 ko's and a surprisingly impressive ko percentage of 60%. He became the IBF Middleweight Champion by icing Frank Tate 1988. Tate was undefeated at the time. In 1989, he defeated former world title-holder Sumbu Kalambay via a one-punch left hand knockout that was named the first ever Ring magazine KO of the Year. He followed this win with successful title defenses against rugged Iran “The Blade” Barkley, Marlon “Magic Man” Starling, and Donald "The Cobra" Curry, all former world champions. He was considered one of boxing’s best pound-for-pound fighters and would go on to earn a total of $6 million.

Early on, he had beaten tough fighters like Alex Ramos (for the California State Middleweight Title), porcelain chin but heavy handed Marcos Geraldo, Mike Tinley, Willie Harris, Cecil Pettigrew, Dale Jackson and Kevin Watts...all of whom had outstanding won-lost slates.

He won the NABF Middleweight Title by stopping Darnell Knox, 25-1 coming in, in 1987 in perhaps what was his peak performance. A year later, he stopped the aforementioned Tate for the Middleweight Title at Ceasers Palace in Las Vegas. He then knocked out and retired tough Juan Domingo Roldan, 67-4 at the time.

As an aside, Michael had a knack for ending and/or negatively impacting the careers of many of his opponents and this “opponents post-fight” measurement, though an arduous one to compute is, in my view, a valuable one in evaluating a fighter worth.

His fateful fight with James Toney in May 1991 took place at the unlikely location of the John O'Donnell Stadium in Nunn’s home town of Davenport, IA. Leading on the cards by 97-93, 99-91 and 98-92, he got caught by a left hook from hell in the 11th round and just like that, it was lights out. A huge upset.

Regrouping, he won the NABF Super Middleweight Title with a solid tko win over Randall Yonker, 23-1, in 1991. In September 1992, he won the WBA Super Middleweight Title with a decision over Panamanian Victor Cordoba, 23-3. With a record of 42-1, he met Steve Little in London in 1994 and lost his title by a razor thin upset SD. Shortly after, he lost a bid to regaining his title when Frankie Liles, 25-1, beat him by a close decision in Ecuador

Nunn then put together a nine-fight win streak including nods over contenders John Scully, 35-4, and Booker T. Word, 23-4-2. He also ko’d and sent into retirement Lonnie Horn, 26-3. This positioned him for a shot at the vacant WBC Light Heavyweight Title against Graciano Rocchigiani in Germany. Unfortunately, he lost a SD with a scoring disparity that could only happen in Berlin, or so it seemed. After this disappointment, Nunn closed out his fine career with 6 straight wins including victories over Glen Thomas, 26-4, and former World Champion William Guthrie, 24-1, by ko. His last fight was in January 2002 at age 39. It is noteworthy that of his 4 defeats, only one was decisive and his record could well have been 61-1. It is also noteworthy that a long anticipated fight with Roy Jones was never made.

The rest of the story is, of course, history, but this has been about Michael's boxing career. Suffice it to say that as he now sits in the U. S. Penitentiary in Leavenworth, his path must now be one of redemption.

Whether Michael Nunn gets into the International Boxing Hall of Fame remains to be seen, but if he fails, it will not be because of his lack of providing indelible memories for boxing fans throughout the world. He was an outstanding fighter who possessed a rare combination of size, speed, punching power and technical boxing. He should not be forgotten by boxing aficionados and purists.

What do you think? :confused:

I think he is HOF material based on the names he beat

When he started out he was "the next sugar ray " thats how good he was . He was also schooling Toney b4 getting tagged.

He was ringside for Eubank - Benn 2 . Its a good job for the Brits he never fought either of those two .

Unfortunately, Nunn amazingly for a two time world champion probably under achieved. He was the future poster boy for middleweight boxing and threw it away. Fine he schooled ( to a point ) Toney until getting tagged, but he could still have been great after this by ruling the super middles/ light heavies.
A shame, a very good fighter but in the end not great enough for the hall of fame. Although Barry McGuigan is in it. lol

I don't see why not considering alot of other lesser fighters have been inducted.......

His impressive KO over the very durable Sumbu Kalambay in only 1 round add that onto solid wins against Frank Tate Donald Curry Iran Barkley Marlon Starling and i think he deserves it.

Based on who he beat he deserves it , based on some of the people already in it he definately deserves it.His crimes since he retired should surely not come into it when discussing entry so a resounding yes for me.

I dread to think of what he might have done to Nigel Benn (one of my favourite fighters) if they had met around 1989 - 1990 :-\:-\

LeonardW12Hagler....
I actually disagree, I think his crimes should be taken into consideration.
As a notable figure in the boxing world Nunn brought the game into disrepute.
He will forever be known as Michael Nunn, former World Boxing Champion and as such his crimes will always have a spin-off effect on boxing.

Names like SRL, Ali and George Foreman reinforced their sure fire HoF passes when they became great ambassadors for the sport.
Nunn dirtied boxings name, although unintentionally.

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Originally Posted by hitmandonny

LeonardW12Hagler....
I actually disagree, I think his crimes should be taken into consideration.
As a notable figure in the boxing world Nunn brought the game into disrepute.
He will forever be known as Michael Nunn, former World Boxing Champion and as such his crimes will always have a spin-off effect on boxing.

Names like SRL, Ali and George Foreman reinforced their sure fire HoF passes when they became great ambassadors for the sport.
Nunn dirtied boxings name, although unintentionally.

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It was more of a question really , do they take that sort of stuff into consideration ? I mean I'm just having a look down the list of inductees and the only one I can find that's not exactly sqeaky clean so far is Sonny Liston.I'm not suggesting that his dodgy links were as bad as being caught with multiple kilos of coke on you:D so I guess you're right on that basis Nunn fails bigtime;D

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Originally Posted by LeonardW12Hagler

It was more of a question really , do they take that sort of stuff into consideration ? I mean I'm just having a look down the list of inductees and the only one I can find that's not exactly sqeaky clean so far is Sonny Liston.I'm not suggesting that his dodgy links were as bad as being caught with multiple kilos of coke on you:D so I guess you're right on that basis Nunn fails bigtime;D

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Yeah I believe they do.
Thats why Barry is in there, for what he did with his status.

Sonny was a legbreaker, so thats a bit of a contradiction I guess.

Tyson will surely be in there despite.......everything.

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Originally Posted by hitmandonny

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Originally Posted by LeonardW12Hagler

It was more of a question really , do they take that sort of stuff into consideration ? I mean I'm just having a look down the list of inductees and the only one I can find that's not exactly sqeaky clean so far is Sonny Liston.I'm not suggesting that his dodgy links were as bad as being caught with multiple kilos of coke on you:D so I guess you're right on that basis Nunn fails bigtime;D

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Yeah I believe they do.
Thats why Barry is in there, for what he did with his status.

Sonny was a legbreaker, so thats a bit of a contradiction I guess.

Tyson will surely be in there despite.......everything.

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That's the acid test isn't it ! Maybe if they induct Tyson then they could do a convicts year and let Nunn in also.Just noticed also Pernell Whitaker on the list another coke head (although not a big timer:D) who possibly brought the sport shame as most people seemed to be aware of his problem late on in his career.

p.s. - I am English and am embarrassed about Barry's prescence !

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Originally Posted by LeonardW12Hagler

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Originally Posted by hitmandonny

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Originally Posted by LeonardW12Hagler

It was more of a question really , do they take that sort of stuff into consideration ? I mean I'm just having a look down the list of inductees and the only one I can find that's not exactly sqeaky clean so far is Sonny Liston.I'm not suggesting that his dodgy links were as bad as being caught with multiple kilos of coke on you:D so I guess you're right on that basis Nunn fails bigtime;D

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Yeah I believe they do.
Thats why Barry is in there, for what he did with his status.

Sonny was a legbreaker, so thats a bit of a contradiction I guess.

Tyson will surely be in there despite.......everything.

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That's the acid test isn't it ! Maybe if they induct Tyson then they could do a convicts year and let Nunn in also.Just noticed also Pernell Whitaker on the list another coke head (although not a big timer:D) who possibly brought the sport shame as most people seemed to be aware of his problem late on in his career.

p.s. - I am English and am embarrassed about Barry's prescence !

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Pernell was also tremendously abreasive and unpleasent.

Barry's not English mate, you've nothing to worry about:)

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Originally Posted by hitmandonny

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Originally Posted by LeonardW12Hagler

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Originally Posted by hitmandonny

Yeah I believe they do.
Thats why Barry is in there, for what he did with his status.

Sonny was a legbreaker, so thats a bit of a contradiction I guess.

Tyson will surely be in there despite.......everything.

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That's the acid test isn't it ! Maybe if they induct Tyson then they could do a convicts year and let Nunn in also.Just noticed also Pernell Whitaker on the list another coke head (although not a big timer:D) who possibly brought the sport shame as most people seemed to be aware of his problem late on in his career.

p.s. - I am English and am embarrassed about Barry's prescence !

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Pernell was also tremendously abreasive and unpleasent.

Barry's not English mate, you've nothing to worry about:)

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Yes that's true I can always claim the "well he's Irish anyway" line , I also noticed Ken Buchannan is in there and rightly so he was quality was around much longer and achieved much more.

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Originally Posted by LeonardW12Hagler

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Originally Posted by hitmandonny

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Originally Posted by LeonardW12Hagler

That's the acid test isn't it ! Maybe if they induct Tyson then they could do a convicts year and let Nunn in also.Just noticed also Pernell Whitaker on the list another coke head (although not a big timer:D) who possibly brought the sport shame as most people seemed to be aware of his problem late on in his career.

p.s. - I am English and am embarrassed about Barry's prescence !

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Pernell was also tremendously abreasive and unpleasent.

Barry's not English mate, you've nothing to worry about:)

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Yes that's true I can always claim the "well he's Irish anyway" line , I also noticed Ken Buchannan is in there and rightly so he was quality was around much longer and achieved much more.

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Man I'm glad to hear that!

Buchanan was a fiery little competitor and had good skills.
Put on a good show with Duran, many would've crumbled.

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Originally Posted by hitmandonny

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Originally Posted by LeonardW12Hagler

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Originally Posted by hitmandonny

Pernell was also tremendously abreasive and unpleasent.

Barry's not English mate, you've nothing to worry about:)

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Yes that's true I can always claim the "well he's Irish anyway" line , I also noticed Ken Buchannan is in there and rightly so he was quality was around much longer and achieved much more.

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Man I'm glad to hear that!

Buchanan was a fiery little competitor and had good skills.
Put on a good show with Duran, many would've crumbled.

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Yep he would've got through that fight if it wasn't for you know what ! I think Duran would have still won on points but shows you what a ruthless , nasty bastard he was back then:mad:

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Originally Posted by hitmandonny

LeonardW12Hagler....
I actually disagree, I think his crimes should be taken into consideration.
As a notable figure in the boxing world Nunn brought the game into disrepute.
He will forever be known as Michael Nunn, former World Boxing Champion and as such his crimes will always have a spin-off effect on boxing.

Names like SRL, Ali and George Foreman reinforced their sure fire HoF passes when they became great ambassadors for the sport.
Nunn dirtied boxings name, although unintentionally.

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Sugar Ray Leonard a great ambassador for the sport ? didn't he have cocaine addiction ? and i didn't think Muhammad Ali was a great ambassador for the sport either with his racism and disrespectful attitude to his opponents.

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Originally Posted by ssss

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Originally Posted by hitmandonny

LeonardW12Hagler....
I actually disagree, I think his crimes should be taken into consideration.
As a notable figure in the boxing world Nunn brought the game into disrepute.
He will forever be known as Michael Nunn, former World Boxing Champion and as such his crimes will always have a spin-off effect on boxing.

Names like SRL, Ali and George Foreman reinforced their sure fire HoF passes when they became great ambassadors for the sport.
Nunn dirtied boxings name, although unintentionally.

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Sugar Ray Leonard a great ambassador for the sport ? didn't he have cocaine addiction ? and i didn't think Muhammad Ali was a great ambassador for the sport either with his racism and disrespectful attitude to his opponents.

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Really I wasn't aware of Ray Leonard ever being accused of that WOW:o

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Originally Posted by LeonardW12Hagler

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Originally Posted by ssss

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Originally Posted by hitmandonny

LeonardW12Hagler....
I actually disagree, I think his crimes should be taken into consideration.
As a notable figure in the boxing world Nunn brought the game into disrepute.
He will forever be known as Michael Nunn, former World Boxing Champion and as such his crimes will always have a spin-off effect on boxing.

Names like SRL, Ali and George Foreman reinforced their sure fire HoF passes when they became great ambassadors for the sport.
Nunn dirtied boxings name, although unintentionally.

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Sugar Ray Leonard a great ambassador for the sport ? didn't he have cocaine addiction ? and i didn't think Muhammad Ali was a great ambassador for the sport either with his racism and disrespectful attitude to his opponents.

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Really I wasn't aware of Ray Leonard ever being accused of that WOW:o

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Look it up fella its pretty well known i believe it was round about the time he retired after the Kevin Howard fight in 1984 im not sure of the exact time though but he is a great fighter but i think its unfair to label Michael Nunn bad for the sport than put Sugar Ray Leonard as a great ambassador but thats just my opinion.

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Originally Posted by LeonardW12Hagler

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Originally Posted by hitmandonny

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Originally Posted by LeonardW12Hagler

Yes that's true I can always claim the "well he's Irish anyway" line , I also noticed Ken Buchannan is in there and rightly so he was quality was around much longer and achieved much more.

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Man I'm glad to hear that!

Buchanan was a fiery little competitor and had good skills.
Put on a good show with Duran, many would've crumbled.

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Yep he would've got through that fight if it wasn't for you know what ! I think Duran would have still won on points but shows you what a ruthless , nasty bastard he was back then:mad:

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Thats dead true man.
Buchanan may have been too tired to mount a victorious last few rounds, but he would have finished on his feet.

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Originally Posted by ssss

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Originally Posted by hitmandonny

LeonardW12Hagler....
I actually disagree, I think his crimes should be taken into consideration.
As a notable figure in the boxing world Nunn brought the game into disrepute.
He will forever be known as Michael Nunn, former World Boxing Champion and as such his crimes will always have a spin-off effect on boxing.

Names like SRL, Ali and George Foreman reinforced their sure fire HoF passes when they became great ambassadors for the sport.
Nunn dirtied boxings name, although unintentionally.

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Sugar Ray Leonard a great ambassador for the sport ? didn't he have cocaine addiction ? and i didn't think Muhammad Ali was a great ambassador for the sport either with his racism and disrespectful attitude to his opponents.

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I believe I've had this debate with another poster in the past;)

The difference is that Sugar Ray has remained in the sport, redeeming himself as a positive infleunce through his promotion of amateur boxing, his contributions to charitable organisations and even by participating in the Contencder series, putting a positive shin eon the sport.
BIG difference.

As for Ali, all of his opponents liked him after their fights, even himself and Frazier made amens. He always spoke with a wink and a smile.

As for racism that fairly unfair of you. Ali grew up in another time and in the past 20 years I defy you to show me where Ali differentiated between balck and white.
Racism was very prevalent in Ali's prime and he struck back at legitimate haters. He is not a racist.

judged by his boxing accomplishments I say yes. some impressive names on his record. tate, kalumbay, barkley, starling, curry, cordoba. he was also well beating toney before being Kod. the fight against rocchigianni was a hometown decision. I always think though we could have seen more from Nunn.

when I think of Nunn I think of the man who was the "next sugar ray" but got caught by Toney and never really lived upto his early potential.

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Originally Posted by LeonardW12Hagler

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Originally Posted by ssss

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Originally Posted by hitmandonny

LeonardW12Hagler....
I actually disagree, I think his crimes should be taken into consideration.
As a notable figure in the boxing world Nunn brought the game into disrepute.
He will forever be known as Michael Nunn, former World Boxing Champion and as such his crimes will always have a spin-off effect on boxing.

Names like SRL, Ali and George Foreman reinforced their sure fire HoF passes when they became great ambassadors for the sport.
Nunn dirtied boxings name, although unintentionally.

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Sugar Ray Leonard a great ambassador for the sport ? didn't he have cocaine addiction ? and i didn't think Muhammad Ali was a great ambassador for the sport either with his racism and disrespectful attitude to his opponents.

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Really I wasn't aware of Ray Leonard ever being accused of that WOW:o

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Leonard later admitted to having abused alcohol, cocaine, and his wife Juanita.

I don't really think anything boxers having problems outside the ring in terms of their HOF status.

Lots of great boxers were scumbags outside the ring. Some of the stuff that guys like Ray Robinson, Jake LaMotta, Carlos Monzon, for instance, did, were just disgusting.

Michael Nunn, in terms of achievements, is borderline IMO. Canastota doesn't have the highest standards anyway.

I think Nunn being an underachiever might play a role in the voting process. People like overachievers more.

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Originally Posted by Thread Stealer

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Originally Posted by LeonardW12Hagler

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Originally Posted by ssss

Sugar Ray Leonard a great ambassador for the sport ? didn't he have cocaine addiction ? and i didn't think Muhammad Ali was a great ambassador for the sport either with his racism and disrespectful attitude to his opponents.

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Really I wasn't aware of Ray Leonard ever being accused of that WOW:o

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Leonard later admitted to having abused alcohol, cocaine, and his wife Juanita.

I don't really think anything boxers having problems outside the ring in terms of their HOF status.

Lots of great boxers were scumbags outside the ring. Some of the stuff that guys like Ray Robinson, Jake LaMotta, Carlos Monzon, for instance, did, were just disgusting.

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I agree 100%, unless what they do outside the ring affects their performance inside the ring, and I can't think of many cases where that has happened. Camacho stole something a while back in Miss. He is still fighting. The two are unrelated. Boxing is the one occupation where what you did before doesn't not matter. On balance, I'd vote Nunn in if I had a vote which I don't. :cool:

IMO Nunn was simply a real good fighter, and only great fighters should be inducted, which he was not.

But what about INGO, Polomino, Barry, Norton, Saad, Cuevas and some others? Not trying to argue the point, but I say Nunn is better than a lot of the guys who are in there.

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Originally Posted by hitmandonny

LeonardW12Hagler....
I actually disagree, I think his crimes should be taken into consideration.
As a notable figure in the boxing world Nunn brought the game into disrepute.
He will forever be known as Michael Nunn, former World Boxing Champion and as such his crimes will always have a spin-off effect on boxing.

Names like SRL, Ali and George Foreman reinforced their sure fire HoF passes when they became great ambassadors for the sport.
Nunn dirtied boxings name, although unintentionally.

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In my opinion people should be placed into the Hall of Fame for their accomplishments in what they are receiving the award in.

Nunn without a doubt as far as his boxing goes is a Hall of Fame boxer.

He isn't gonna win the best person in the world award. But his achievements shouldbt be ignored for his out of the ring problems, inside the ring he is hall of fame, outside of it he was not

I always felt that boxing is the one occupation in which your past life meant nothing. Thus, guys like Liston, Lyle, Michael Bennett, Braxton, and many others got a chance at redemption.

Maybe if a boxer does something bad outside the ring during the course of his career, a different standard should apply. While I personally agree with Majesty on this, it might make for a different take on things. Tyson, Spadafora and Camacho quickly come to mind.

Hhhmm. :confused:

[quote=hitmandonny;589560
As for racism that fairly unfair of you. Ali grew up in another time and in the past 20 years I defy you to show me where Ali differentiated between balck and white.
Racism was very prevalent in Ali's prime and he struck back at legitimate haters. He is not a racist.[/quote]

Sorry Donny - when Ali joined the Black Muslims, they genuinely belived that the black race was human and whites had been created by a mad scientist called Mr Yacub. They were banished to an island, but escaped and took over the world.

The Black Muslims belived all white people were evil, would not talk or make eye contact with anyone white and forbade thair families to have any contact with them at all. They were not integrationalist and wanted their own homeland where white people would not be permitted.

Admittedly, he did convert to mainstream Islam in the 80's - but Ali was a pretty bad guy when he was young.

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Originally Posted by hitmandonny

LeonardW12Hagler....
I actually disagree, I think his crimes should be taken into consideration.
As a notable figure in the boxing world Nunn brought the game into disrepute.
He will forever be known as Michael Nunn, former World Boxing Champion and as such his crimes will always have a spin-off effect on boxing.

Names like SRL, Ali and George Foreman reinforced their sure fire HoF passes when they became great ambassadors for the sport.
Nunn dirtied boxings name, although unintentionally.

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You have got to be kidding me. Leonard and Ali were both completely dispicable human beings in their prime.. But aside from that, you actually feel Nunns being charged with intent to sell cocaine after he was done as a fighter, should detract from how worthy a candidate he is for the HOF? Or even more preposterously, that he somehow tarnishes the sport from a casual fans perspective?? Only real boxing fans know who Michael Nunn was these days. Don't you box yourself? Perhaps Nunn after never achieving his potential and receiving punishment from boxing, couldn't make a whole lot of money doing much else? Not to mention how many HOF fighters have been plauged with addiction and criminal behaviour after retiring but were lucky enough to never be charged..

I'm curious though... Are you under the illusion that any washed up fighter who used to be somebody can just sit back, cast a great light on the sport, give back to it, and watch the money roll in? It's an extremely brutal business and very, very few fighters have succesfully made the transition from boxing to another profitable pursuit. Michael Nunn is not Leonard or George Foreman. He's more like 99.99999% of the other fighters who retire is all.

[quote=X;591003]

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Originally Posted by hitmandonny;589560
As for racism that fairly unfair of you. Ali grew up in another time and in the past 20 years I defy you to show me where Ali differentiated between balck and white.
Racism was very prevalent in Ali's prime and he struck back at legitimate haters. He is not a racist.[/quote

Sorry Donny - when Ali joined the Black Muslims, they genuinely belived that the black race was human and whites had been created by a mad scientist called Mr Yacub. They were banished to an island, but escaped and took over the world.

The Black Muslims belived all white people were evil, would not talk or make eye contact with anyone white and forbade thair families to have any contact with them at all. They were not integrationalist and wanted their own homeland where white people would not be permitted.

Admittedly, he did convert to mainstream Islam in the 80's - but Ali was a pretty bad guy when he was young.

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Point taken but...
Angelo Dundee?

Howard Cosell?

Ali was a black Muslim, I know what that entails, but Ali also slept around.
He "failed" in many ways to live up to his Muslim expectations.

I believe he despised the way his people were treated and thus despised those that treated them so. But I don't believe he hated all that was white.

He spent weeks in Ireland and got on marvellously well with all who met him.

Well i always thought that Suagr Ray Leonard was guy that did more good for the sport then bad in and out of the ring.

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Originally Posted by ssss

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Originally Posted by hitmandonny

LeonardW12Hagler....
I actually disagree, I think his crimes should be taken into consideration.
As a notable figure in the boxing world Nunn brought the game into disrepute.
He will forever be known as Michael Nunn, former World Boxing Champion and as such his crimes will always have a spin-off effect on boxing.

Names like SRL, Ali and George Foreman reinforced their sure fire HoF passes when they became great ambassadors for the sport.
Nunn dirtied boxings name, although unintentionally.

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Sugar Ray Leonard a great ambassador for the sport ? didn't he have cocaine addiction ? and i didn't think Muhammad Ali was a great ambassador for the sport either with his racism and disrespectful attitude to his opponents.

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But they did change and Ali renounced the racism later. Still, you make a darn good point.

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Originally Posted by Mr140

Well i always thought that Suagr Ray Leonard was guy that did more good for the sport then bad in and out of the ring.

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Agreed...and he is still doing it.

Michael Nunn did something that isn't as bad as what other HOF fighters have admitted to doing.

Nunn just wasn't as good at getting away with it.:cwm27:

And michael nunn didn't "get caught" by james toney. Toney was landing heavy shots in the last 2 rounds. Toney wore him down.

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Originally Posted by awdleyfuturehalloffamer

And michael nunn didn't "get caught" by james toney. Toney was landing heavy shots in the last 2 rounds. Toney wore him down.

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That is true.