After the hopkins fight should kelly continue to go up to 175 where theres clearly more competition or defend his titles against Abraham and maybe clean out the super middle weight division next year?
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After the hopkins fight should kelly continue to go up to 175 where theres clearly more competition or defend his titles against Abraham and maybe clean out the super middle weight division next year?
He should stay at 175lbs and try and bully calzaghe in to one more fight
This is where Pavlik is trying to go with this. I believe that if he does well against Hopkins, and I don't know what Team Pavliks definition of well is vs my definition of well would be but I am assuming that if Pavlik looks impressive against B-Hop, that he will indeed move up and try to slay the dragon, Joe Calzaghe. I guess we will know more once Pavlik/Hopkins is over. However, I was expecting Pavlik to utterly destroy Taylor again at their catch weight rematch, which was only six pounds more and Pavlik did not deliver. Since we have never seen Pavlik at 175, we just don't know if he can be that dominating force he is at 160. I would like to see him fight against Arthur Abraham, I don't know why this fight has not been talked about enough. Ok I have to run but nice subject, thanks.Quote:
Originally Posted by kingfrnk
the reason why he didnt kill taylor again because taylor fought a smarter fight and tried not to get caught in the corners again but it was amazing to see kelly outbox taylor because some were doubting if he had any boxing skills and he showed it. And your right about the abraham fight it needs to be hyped up a little more
Yeah, I guess you are right. Taylor made the needed adjustments and Pavlik still proved that his win was not some fluke. A much more defensive, smarter eager Taylor in that rematch., With that being said, how is Kelly going to do against a very well rounded defensive cagey veteran fighter in B-Hop, some one who has been proven at that higher weight? (despite the obvious age difference) Now I am getting pumped about this fight ;DQuote:
Originally Posted by kingfrnk
Kelly Pavlik still showed he can change the tempo of a fight with one punch remember it only took one body shot and that basically made Jermain Taylor go into a defensive shell.Quote:
Originally Posted by Danny_GThis is where Pavlik is trying to go with this. I believe that if he does well against Hopkins, and I don't know what Team Pavliks definition of well is vs my definition of well would be but I am assuming that if Pavlik looks impressive against B-Hop, that he will indeed move up and try to slay the dragon, Joe Calzaghe. I guess we will know more once Pavlik/Hopkins is over. However, I was expecting Pavlik to utterly destroy Taylor again at their catch weight rematch, which was only six pounds more and Pavlik did not deliver. Since we have never seen Pavlik at 175, we just don't know if he can be that dominating force he is at 160. I would like to see him fight against Arthur Abraham, I don't know why this fight has not been talked about enough. Ok I have to run but nice subject, thanks.Quote:
Originally Posted by kingfrnk
I think He will be at His Best ;D
Exactly. Taylor fought a better fight and made it close. Taylor is still a very good fighter, and he came in with a better gameplan. He respected Pavlik's power and kept his left up for the first time in several fights. I don't think weight had anything to do with anything. I think Pavlik was built for 175.Quote:
Originally Posted by kingfrnk
I think he'll fill out 175 well.
However fighting Hopkins is THEE stupidest thing he could have done.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CutMeMick
Agreed
Dont see the win in this
nor
a win.
In a word "YES" he is a huge middleweight and though he may not have the same one punch KO power, he will still have enough to cause serious damage.
Moving to 175 would be a bad move by Pavlik in my opinion.
I feel his power would not carry all the way up to 175 plus his size would no longer be an advantage to him at that weight.
he should stay at 160.
well if he kos hopkins which is a possibility he should stay there cause he will have a bigger name at 175 which will draw him into bigger fights like a dawson fight or even calzaghe if he isnt afraid. and believe me kelly wants to ko hopkins so he can put pressure on joe to fight him cause alot of people still say hopkins won the fight.
168 would be better for Pavlik better fights at that weight.
Isnt the Hopkins fight at 170? so 168 for me Calzaghe, Kessler, Bute would make life very tough for old Kelly.
I don't see why people think Hopkins getting Ko'd is a possibility.Quote:
Originally Posted by kingfrnk
Pavlik may have good power at 160 but as his second fight with Taylor showed it doesn't carry plus the fact he is a slow accumulation puncher and Hopkins is hard as fuck to hit Cleanly. Pavlik will not land enough to put Hopkins in any trouble.
Pavlik fighting Hopkins is the biggest mistake he has ever made.
Him fighting Calzaghe would be another mistake.
Calzaghe just has the perfect style to beat him and i'm surprised people actually give him a chance against joe.
10 pounds aint that much of a difference anyway since kelly is a big guy. a kessler fight would be better than a calzaghe fight to me kessler has a better chance to win than joe
I have a tough time picking who would win between Kessler and Pavlik.Quote:
Originally Posted by kingfrnk
Kessler is clearly the more technical superior boxer who has fast hands, good power and is a good counter puncher.
In his fight against Calzaghe he performed well early on but once Calzaghe adapted kessler has no plan b and was also overwhelmed by Calzaghes high workrate + pressure was even hurt in the 8th by Calzaghe who lacks power at this stage of his career. pavlik hits harder than Calzaghe.
Pavlik is a good pressure fighter who has a good jab and a monster right hand, has a good workrate.
Pavlik has slow footwork and slow hands and is predictable. He also lacks defense and was hurt by Jermain Taylor who does have good power but kessler hits harder.
In the fight Pavlik would be the agressor coming forward and throwing his typical 1-2 combo with Kessler moving left and right trying to counter pavliks punches. Either Pavliks good workrate, power and pressure overwhelm Kessler and Pavlik gets the decision or possibly stops kessler late or Kessler's accurate hard counters and lateral movement help get him the decision and maybe even get him a stoppage win.
I hope this fight happens next year.;D
Quote:
Originally Posted by kingfrnk
Both beat Pavlik handily.
Calzaghe always and i mean ALWAYS looks sensational against guys that come at him. Pavlik will press the fight and get really bust up.
yea but kelly has been improvin on and on look at the lockett fight he didnt get hit that much he backed up when he came in and dropt him about 3 times and plus after the hopkins he will build up alot of experience after that. and kessler hasnt had much experience at all except joe and all his fights been in denmark against nobodys i checked his record so if he fights kelly hel just get kod cuz of the lack of experience he cant knock kelly out either kelly has fought power punchers before and knockin him down only make it worse.
Lockett got caught in the headlights and basically froze, he didnt let his hands go and shouldnt of been in there in the first place. The guy is a british level fighter, not even the best middleweight in Britain.Quote:
Originally Posted by kingfrnk
To say Kessler has no exprience?? WTF? He fought for the WBA 168 title in a hostile atmosphere in Australia, he has had i think 10+ 12 round fights in front of huge crowds. how can you say he aint experienced?
being in a hostile crowd is one thing having great fighters on your resume is another
I don;t think moving up to 175 will lessen his power any or his punches effect. What he has to worry about is at 175, much of the physical advantages he enjoys at 160 are gone as the opponents are just bigger. You also have to wonder about how durable he will be at 175 when it comes to taking his opponents punches.
Kelly hasn't fought at 175 before. So we don't know whether he can be a force or not. It's all ifs and buts. We will only found out once he fights at that weight.
Calzaghe is open to the right hand, he has proved that in the past. Kelly has a lethal right hand, he has proved that in the past.Quote:
Originally Posted by PugilisticI don't see why people think Hopkins getting Ko'd is a possibility.Quote:
Originally Posted by kingfrnk
Pavlik may have good power at 160 but as his second fight with Taylor showed it doesn't carry plus the fact he is a slow accumulation puncher and Hopkins is hard as fuck to hit Cleanly. Pavlik will not land enough to put Hopkins in any trouble.
Pavlik fighting Hopkins is the biggest mistake he has ever made.
Him fighting Calzaghe would be another mistake.
Calzaghe just has the perfect style to beat him and i'm surprised people actually give him a chance against joe.
Hopkins knocked Calzaghe down with a right. Kelly Pavlik hits 10 x more harder than Hopkins. So if Hopkins can put Joe on his ass it's a scary thought what Pavlik could do.
don't forget Kessler has a lethal right to, he hits alot harder than Hopkins...Quote:
Originally Posted by leftyleeCalzaghe is open to the right hand, he has proved that in the past. Kelly has a lethal right hand, he has proved that in the past.Quote:
Originally Posted by PugilisticI don't see why people think Hopkins getting Ko'd is a possibility.Quote:
Originally Posted by kingfrnk
Pavlik may have good power at 160 but as his second fight with Taylor showed it doesn't carry plus the fact he is a slow accumulation puncher and Hopkins is hard as fuck to hit Cleanly. Pavlik will not land enough to put Hopkins in any trouble.
Pavlik fighting Hopkins is the biggest mistake he has ever made.
Him fighting Calzaghe would be another mistake.
Calzaghe just has the perfect style to beat him and i'm surprised people actually give him a chance against joe.
Hopkins knocked Calzaghe down with a right. Kelly Pavlik hits 10 x more harder than Hopkins. So if Hopkins can put Joe on his ass it's a scary thought what Pavlik could do.
back on topic yeah I think Pavlik can do damage at 175, I'd like to see him at supermiddle first though, I think theres better fights there, hopefully he fights Abraham at supermiddle after Hopkins, don't think dropping from Lheavy to Middle will do his body any favors
Kessler has more experience than Pavlik imo.Quote:
Originally Posted by kingfrnk
And the best fighter on Pavliks resume is Jermain Taylor. The same Taylor who was given the two fights with Hopkins and scored a draw with Wright where lots of people thought he lost and had two horrible performances against natural junior middleweights and you could argue he lost to cory spinks. Not exactly a great fighter is he.Quote:
Originally Posted by kingfrnk
Pavliks resume is overated.
The Hopkins knockdown was more to Calzaghe being off balance and not seeing the punch. Hopkins has one of the sneakiest most accurate right hand in the sport.Quote:
Originally Posted by leftyleeCalzaghe is open to the right hand, he has proved that in the past. Kelly has a lethal right hand, he has proved that in the past.Quote:
Originally Posted by PugilisticI don't see why people think Hopkins getting Ko'd is a possibility.Quote:
Originally Posted by kingfrnk
Pavlik may have good power at 160 but as his second fight with Taylor showed it doesn't carry plus the fact he is a slow accumulation puncher and Hopkins is hard as fuck to hit Cleanly. Pavlik will not land enough to put Hopkins in any trouble.
Pavlik fighting Hopkins is the biggest mistake he has ever made.
Him fighting Calzaghe would be another mistake.
Calzaghe just has the perfect style to beat him and i'm surprised people actually give him a chance against joe.
Hopkins knocked Calzaghe down with a right. Kelly Pavlik hits 10 x more harder than Hopkins. So if Hopkins can put Joe on his ass it's a scary thought what Pavlik could do.
What Calzaghe did to Kessler would be what he would do to Pavlik. Pavlik would have success with his right hand early but then Calzaghe adapts to it and takes over the fight.
By the way Pavlik does not hit 10x harder than bhop
Thats stupid talk . ;D
I believe he'll carry some pop up... People seem to forget that these are both guys that fought the majority of their careers at MW... It's not like you have a MW coming up to fight a natural LHW... Pavlik is a big MW and will translate well to 175.
Thats the excuse they will make when Pavlik loses. ;DQuote:
Originally Posted by PRIDE OF BOSTON
There's no way he can lose this fight... His output is to high. It won't be pretty but Pav will press the action and just plain outwork Nard...Quote:
Originally Posted by PugilisticThats the excuse they will make when Pavlik loses. ;DQuote:
Originally Posted by PRIDE OF BOSTON
It's just the way it is.. For the final 4.5 rounds of the Joe C fight Nard threw virtually nothing... He was used up. Joe does not hit anywhere close to as hard as even a MW in Pavlik. Pav starts touching that body early and he'll run out of steam even sooner.
I love Bernard but the people that think Nard is a favorite for this are just plain kidding themselves.
I'm not confident in Hopkins winning but to say Pavlik no way loses the fight is pretty silly TBH.Quote:
Originally Posted by PRIDE OF BOSTONThere's no way he can lose this fight... His output is to high. It won't be pretty but Pav will press the action and just plain outwork Nard...Quote:
Originally Posted by PugilisticThats the excuse they will make when Pavlik loses. ;DQuote:
Originally Posted by PRIDE OF BOSTON
It's just the way it is.. For the final 4.5 rounds of the Joe C fight Nard threw virtually nothing... He was used up. Joe does not hit anywhere close to as hard as even a MW in Pavlik. Pav starts touching that body early and he'll run out of steam even sooner.
I love Bernard but the people that think Nard is a favorite for this are just plain kidding themselves.
Pavlik is hits harder than Calzaghe yes but he doesn't have Calzaghe's fast footwork or fast hands plus is predictable and include the fact that he has poorish defense. Hopkins made Calzaghe miss very often and Calzaghe has very accurate fast hands.
Hopkins faded late due to Calzaghe closing the gap between him and Hopkins by throwing loads of fast flurries and pervented Hopkins from throwing once punch at a time then clinching because i noticed as Hopkins would go into the clinch Calzaghe would flurry stopping Hopkins from holding and that tired Hopkins down the stretch.
Pavlik will not be able to close the gap between him and Hopkins as quick as Joe did, Even though Pavlik is a big guy you will be surprised to see that Hopkins will bully him on the inside and will frustrate him all that while landing accurate counters and pot shots. In the end you may be right, i can see hopkins losing the fight because he just didn't throw enough but you should never count hops out.
Hmmm...Quote:
Originally Posted by PugilisticI'm not confident in Hopkins winning but to say Pavlik no way loses the fight is pretty silly TBH.Quote:
Originally Posted by PRIDE OF BOSTONThere's no way he can lose this fight... His output is to high. It won't be pretty but Pav will press the action and just plain outwork Nard...Quote:
Originally Posted by Pugilistic
It's just the way it is.. For the final 4.5 rounds of the Joe C fight Nard threw virtually nothing... He was used up. Joe does not hit anywhere close to as hard as even a MW in Pavlik. Pav starts touching that body early and he'll run out of steam even sooner.
I love Bernard but the people that think Nard is a favorite for this are just plain kidding themselves.
Pavlik is hits harder than Calzaghe yes but he doesn't have Calzaghe's fast footwork or fast hands plus is predictable and include the fact that he has poorish defense. Hopkins made Calzaghe miss very often and Calzaghe has very accurate fast hands.
Hopkins faded late due to Calzaghe closing the gap between him and Hopkins by throwing loads of fast flurries and pervented Hopkins from throwing once punch at a time then clinching because i noticed as Hopkins would go into the clinch Calzaghe would flurry stopping Hopkins from holding and that tired Hopkins down the stretch.
Pavlik will not be able to close the gap between him and Hopkins as quick as Joe did, Even though Pavlik is a big guy you will be surprised to see that Hopkins will bully him on the inside and will frustrate him all that while landing accurate counters and pot shots. In the end you may be right, i can see hopkins losing the fight because he just didn't throw enough but you should never count hops out.
Well you make good points. Especially when you mention how quickly Joe closed the gap due to handspeed and how Kelly will be unable to do so as quickly.
I will say that I think Kelly's bodywork will be the key to this fight.
Well said, sir.
Have some rep;)
If Kelly is able to land bodyshots Hopkins will fade no doubt.Quote:
Originally Posted by PRIDE OF BOSTONHmmm...Quote:
Originally Posted by PugilisticI'm not confident in Hopkins winning but to say Pavlik no way loses the fight is pretty silly TBH.Quote:
Originally Posted by PRIDE OF BOSTON
Pavlik is hits harder than Calzaghe yes but he doesn't have Calzaghe's fast footwork or fast hands plus is predictable and include the fact that he has poorish defense. Hopkins made Calzaghe miss very often and Calzaghe has very accurate fast hands.
Hopkins faded late due to Calzaghe closing the gap between him and Hopkins by throwing loads of fast flurries and pervented Hopkins from throwing once punch at a time then clinching because i noticed as Hopkins would go into the clinch Calzaghe would flurry stopping Hopkins from holding and that tired Hopkins down the stretch.
Pavlik will not be able to close the gap between him and Hopkins as quick as Joe did, Even though Pavlik is a big guy you will be surprised to see that Hopkins will bully him on the inside and will frustrate him all that while landing accurate counters and pot shots. In the end you may be right, i can see hopkins losing the fight because he just didn't throw enough but you should never count hops out.
Well you make good points. Especially when you mention how quickly Joe closed the gap due to handspeed and how Kelly will be unable to do so as quickly.
I will say that I think Kelly's bodywork will be the key to this fight.
Well said, sir.
Have some rep;)
Rep Back;)
If Kelly lands bodyshots I think it may open up opportunity for a KO head shot.Quote:
Originally Posted by PugilisticIf Kelly is able to land bodyshots Hopkins will fade no doubt.Quote:
Originally Posted by PRIDE OF BOSTONHmmm...Quote:
Originally Posted by Pugilistic
Well you make good points. Especially when you mention how quickly Joe closed the gap due to handspeed and how Kelly will be unable to do so as quickly.
I will say that I think Kelly's bodywork will be the key to this fight.
Well said, sir.
Have some rep;)
Rep Back;)
Quote:
Originally Posted by rjj tszyuIf Kelly lands bodyshots I think it may open up opportunity for a KO head shot.Quote:
Originally Posted by PugilisticIf Kelly is able to land bodyshots Hopkins will fade no doubt.Quote:
Originally Posted by PRIDE OF BOSTON
Rep Back;)
My friend who def knows boxing predicts a KO that ends Hopkins. I disagree strongly. Hop is way to cagey for that.. I don't see a KO at all.
His age has to catch up with him sooner or later and I don't just mean losing close decisions to world class opposition, I mean getting hurt badly. I don't want to see it as I do like Bernard but I see it coming soon.Quote:
Originally Posted by PRIDE OF BOSTONQuote:
Originally Posted by rjj tszyuIf Kelly lands bodyshots I think it may open up opportunity for a KO head shot.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pugilistic
My friend who def knows boxing predicts a KO that ends Hopkins. I disagree strongly. Hop is way to cagey for that.. I don't see a KO at all.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rjj tszyuHis age has to catch up with him sooner or later and I don't just mean losing close decisions to world class opposition, I mean getting hurt badly. I don't want to see it as I do like Bernard but I see it coming soon.Quote:
Originally Posted by PRIDE OF BOSTONQuote:
Originally Posted by rjj tszyu
My friend who def knows boxing predicts a KO that ends Hopkins. I disagree strongly. Hop is way to cagey for that.. I don't see a KO at all.
Mmmmm... I hope not. You and my friend have that in common. Can't say you're wrong just cuz I don't see it happening.
Totally agree Hopkins is real hard to hit clean and Hopkins has made much faster fighters miss often, he won't have much trouble getting Pavlik to miss even if he is 43.Quote:
Originally Posted by PRIDE OF BOSTONQuote:
Originally Posted by rjj tszyuIf Kelly lands bodyshots I think it may open up opportunity for a KO head shot.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pugilistic
My friend who def knows boxing predicts a KO that ends Hopkins. I disagree strongly. Hop is way to cagey for that.. I don't see a KO at all.
yes it is hard to hit hopkins cleanly in the head. but dont forget he wont be moving around he will be right in front of kelly which is a bad idea so even if kelly dont hit him in the head in the early rounds eventually kelly will go to the body open up the head and begins hopkins retirement;D
If you think Hopkins won't use his superior great footwork you're crazy. ;DQuote:
Originally Posted by kingfrnk
and if Hopkins doesn't use it then he's crazy :)