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Nationality of Judges in "World" Title Fights?
I noticed a while ago that many "world" title fights - that take place in the States between an American and non-American - are officiated by THREE American judges.
for example.. Hatton-Floyd.
I can't recall ANY "world" title fight in Britain, between Brit and non-Brit, having three Brit judges. I checked a few German and Japanese "world" title fights and noticed the judges seem to be from neutral countries too.
So.. can anyone name a "world" title fight outside the States that had three home-country judges?
Thank you.
(yes, i know, i will soon be taking up trainspotting :-\)
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Re: Nationality of Judges in "World" Title Fights?
Theres only so many "world title" bouts outside the states to work with
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Re: Nationality of Judges in "World" Title Fights?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
I noticed a while ago that many "world" title fights - that take place in the States between an American and non-American - are officiated by THREE American judges.
for example.. Hatton-Floyd.
I can't recall ANY "world" title fight in Britain, between Brit and non-Brit, having three Brit judges. I checked a few German and Japanese "world" title fights and noticed the judges seem to be from neutral countries too.
So.. can anyone name a "world" title fight outside the States that had three home-country judges?
Thank you.
(yes, i know, i will soon be taking up trainspotting :-\)
Ok, this is a boxrec question, I'll get back to you.
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Re: Nationality of Judges in "World" Title Fights?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Trainer Monkey
Theres only so many "world title" bouts outside the states to work with
err..what? There's "world" title fights all over the world all the time.
Look - this is what i mean..
Hozumi Hasegawa-vs-Cristian Faccio - Tokyo, Japan | judge: Alan Krebs 10-9 | judge: Max DeLuca 10-9 | judge: Stephen Blea 10-9 ~
How come it wasn't THREE Japanese judges?
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Re: Nationality of Judges in "World" Title Fights?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Trainer Monkey
Theres only so many "world title" bouts outside the states to work with
err..what? There's "world" title fights all over the world all the time.
Look - this is what i mean..
Hozumi Hasegawa-vs-Cristian Faccio - Tokyo, Japan | judge: Alan Krebs 10-9 | judge: Max DeLuca 10-9 | judge: Stephen Blea 10-9 ~
How come it wasn't THREE Japanese judges?
OK you have a point, I looked as long as my attention level would let me and I had no dice. I agree that World Title bouts SHOULD have international judges, if at all possible.
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Re: Nationality of Judges in "World" Title Fights?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
killersheep
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Trainer Monkey
Theres only so many "world title" bouts outside the states to work with
err..what? There's "world" title fights all over the world all the time.
Look - this is what i mean..
Hozumi Hasegawa-vs-Cristian Faccio - Tokyo, Japan | judge: Alan Krebs 10-9 | judge: Max DeLuca 10-9 | judge: Stephen Blea 10-9 ~
How come it wasn't THREE Japanese judges?
OK you have a point, I looked as long as my attention level would let me and I had no dice. I agree that World Title bouts SHOULD have international judges, if at all possible.
Recent Championships
Hopkins-Calzaghe-Las Vegas
Kiltschko-Ibragimov-New York
Peter-McCline NY
Tarver Hopkins-Atlantic City
I mean you get some guys who never travel like Bute,but I can probably find 3 to 1 major bouts that happened in the states
Not to mention compare populations,now If China was involved in Pro boxing,and couldnt get consistent majority judges,youd have a point.
Like or not,the US has the second highest population in the world,more of a pool to chose from
Sorry 3rd most populous India is number 2
But if there are 350 Million Americans
And there 61 Million British
Are you more or less likely to get an American judge or a British judge
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Re: Nationality of Judges in "World" Title Fights?
Trainermonkey - what the hell you waffling about man? ;D
This isn't a slight on America. I can't even think of a fight where three American judges ROBBED the forigner.
It seems very odd, thats all.
There's PLENTY of judges in Britain, yet NO "world" fight (i can find) without an international judge :-\
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Re: Nationality of Judges in "World" Title Fights?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Trainermonkey - what the hell you waffling about man? ;D
This isn't a slight on America. I can't even think of a fight where three American judges ROBBED the forigner.
It seems very odd, thats all.
There's PLENTY of judges in Britain, yet NO "world" fight (i can find) without an international judge :-\
Im not waffling about anything
There are more American judges
Most of the big fights happen in the states,so its cheaper to get the judges in
Therefore,your more likely to get 3 American Judges
And you still have no idea about the fact that we have no real sense of national identity
If youve got an Polish from Poland guy fighting in Chicago,fighting against a chicano from LA,and its an all Chicago Judging crew
Im not betting on the American Chicano
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Re: Nationality of Judges in "World" Title Fights?
Right.. so it's cheaper to have THREE American judges in America.. well surely it's CHEAPER to have THREE BRIT judges in Britain!?! Or three Germans in Germany.. Or three Japanese in Japan?
Calzaghe-Lacy England - judge:Nelson Vazquez 119-105 | judge: Roy Francis 119-107 | judge: Adalaide Byrd 119-107
What was Byrd and Vazquez doing there? Three Brit judges could have done it, no?
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Re: Nationality of Judges in "World" Title Fights?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Right.. so it's cheaper to have THREE American judges in America.. well surely it's CHEAPER to have THREE BRIT judges in Britain!?! Or Three Germans in Germany.. Or Three Japanese in Japan?
Calzaghe-Lacy England - judge:Nelson Vazquez 119-105 | judge: Roy Francis 119-107 | judge: Adalaide Byrd 119-107
What was Byrd and Vazquez doing there? Three Brit judges could have done it, no?
Its cheaper,but again,you dont have the judge pool to draw from,you do realize judges have a ranking system dont you
Your not exactly going to grab a judge from the Blue Horizon to judge a fight at Madison Square Garden,are you?
You just dont have enough people to have a deep enough judge pool
ANd you still dont understand the US,there is no ethnic identity in this country,and until you get that through your head,you'll never understand how ludicrous your conspiracy theories sound.
Philadelphia has as much in common with Los Angeles as England has in common with Mars
Grand Rapids is a long way from Las Vegas,and Hatton is more popular here in the states then Mayweather,he lost,get over it
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Re: Nationality of Judges in "World" Title Fights?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Trainer Monkey
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Right.. so it's cheaper to have THREE American judges in America.. well surely it's CHEAPER to have THREE BRIT judges in Britain!?! Or Three Germans in Germany.. Or Three Japanese in Japan?
Calzaghe-Lacy England - judge:Nelson Vazquez 119-105 | judge: Roy Francis 119-107 | judge: Adalaide Byrd 119-107
What was Byrd and Vazquez doing there? Three Brit judges could have done it, no?
Its cheaper,but again,you dont have the judge pool to draw from,you do realize judges have a ranking system dont you
Your not exactly going to grab a judge from the Blue Horizon to judge a fight at Madison Square Garden,are you?
You just dont have enough people to have a deep enough judge pool
ANd you still dont understand the US,there is no ethnic identity in this country,and until you get that through your head,you'll never understand how ludicrous your conspiracy theories sound.
Philadelphia has as much in common with Los Angeles as England has in common with Mars
Grand Rapids is a long way from Las Vegas,and
Hatton is more popular here in the states then Mayweather, he lost,get over it
What does this have to do with Hatton-Floyd? I used that as an example. I picked Floyd to KO Hatton, I couldn't careless about that fight. :rolleyes:
"ludicrous conspiracy theories"? :-\
I'm not accusing anyone of foul play. It's a simple oddity that ONLY in America (someone may yet find this is wrong) "world" title fights can be judged by THREE Americans even with a non-American as one of the competitors.
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Re: Nationality of Judges in "World" Title Fights?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Trainer Monkey
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Right.. so it's cheaper to have THREE American judges in America.. well surely it's CHEAPER to have THREE BRIT judges in Britain!?! Or Three Germans in Germany.. Or Three Japanese in Japan?
Calzaghe-Lacy England - judge:Nelson Vazquez 119-105 | judge: Roy Francis 119-107 | judge: Adalaide Byrd 119-107
What was Byrd and Vazquez doing there? Three Brit judges could have done it, no?
Its cheaper,but again,you dont have the judge pool to draw from,you do realize judges have a ranking system dont you
Your not exactly going to grab a judge from the Blue Horizon to judge a fight at Madison Square Garden,are you?
You just dont have enough people to have a deep enough judge pool
ANd you still dont understand the US,there is no ethnic identity in this country,and until you get that through your head,you'll never understand how ludicrous your conspiracy theories sound.
Philadelphia has as much in common with Los Angeles as England has in common with Mars
Grand Rapids is a long way from Las Vegas,and
Hatton is more popular here in the states then Mayweather, he lost,get over it
What does this have to do with Hatton-Floyd? I used that as an example. I picked Floyd to KO Hatton, I couldn't careless about that fight. :rolleyes:
"ludicrous conspiracy theories"? :-\
I'm not accusing anyone of foul play. It's a simple oddity that ONLY in America (someone may yet find this is wrong) "world" title fights can be judged by THREE Americans even with a non-American as one of the competitors.
Again,there are more and higher ranked judges in the states,its a larger pool to choose from
And again,the Nationality theory,let me try to explain this country so you finally understand by using a different sport
Baseball
Along the Northeastern Seaboard there are 3 different Major Teams,The Yankees,The Red Sox,and The Phillies
If the Yankees were playing the Cuban National team you would find lifelong Reagan Free Market Conservatives in Philly and Boston saying,"You know that Castro wasnt a bad guy after all"
Tyson-Bruno I think most people in the states were rooting for Bruno,I know I was
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Re: Nationality of Judges in "World" Title Fights?
err.. you mean like the Scots and Welsh hating the English?
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Re: Nationality of Judges in "World" Title Fights?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Trainer Monkey
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Trainer Monkey
Its cheaper,but again,you dont have the judge pool to draw from,you do realize judges have a ranking system dont you
Your not exactly going to grab a judge from the Blue Horizon to judge a fight at Madison Square Garden,are you?
You just dont have enough people to have a deep enough judge pool
ANd you still dont understand the US,there is no ethnic identity in this country,and until you get that through your head,you'll never understand how ludicrous your conspiracy theories sound.
Philadelphia has as much in common with Los Angeles as England has in common with Mars
Grand Rapids is a long way from Las Vegas,and Hatton is more popular here in the states then Mayweather, he lost,get over it
What does this have to do with Hatton-Floyd? I used that as an example. I picked Floyd to KO Hatton, I couldn't careless about that fight. :rolleyes:
"ludicrous conspiracy theories"? :-\
I'm not accusing anyone of foul play. It's a simple oddity that ONLY in America (someone may yet find this is wrong) "world" title fights can be judged by THREE Americans even with a non-American as one of the competitors.
Again,there are more and higher ranked judges in the states,its a larger pool to choose from
And again,the Nationality theory,let me try to explain this country so you finally understand by using a different sport
Baseball
Along the Northeastern Seaboard there are 3 different Major Teams,The Yankees,The Red Sox,and The Phillies
If the Yankees were playing the Cuban National team you would find lifelong Reagan Free Market Conservatives in Philly and Boston saying,"You know that Castro wasnt a bad guy after all"
Tyson-Bruno I think most people in the states were rooting for Bruno,I know I was
Thing is, if I'm not mistaken (and I may be) all three judges from the Hatton-Mayweather fight were from Las Vegas.
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Re: Nationality of Judges in "World" Title Fights?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
killersheep
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Trainer Monkey
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
What does this have to do with Hatton-Floyd? I used that as an example. I picked Floyd to KO Hatton, I couldn't careless about that fight. :rolleyes:
"ludicrous conspiracy theories"? :-\
I'm not accusing anyone of foul play. It's a simple oddity that ONLY in America (someone may yet find this is wrong) "world" title fights can be judged by THREE Americans even with a non-American as one of the competitors.
Again,there are more and higher ranked judges in the states,its a larger pool to choose from
And again,the Nationality theory,let me try to explain this country so you finally understand by using a different sport
Baseball
Along the Northeastern Seaboard there are 3 different Major Teams,The Yankees,The Red Sox,and The Phillies
If the Yankees were playing the Cuban National team you would find lifelong Reagan Free Market Conservatives in Philly and Boston saying,"You know that Castro wasnt a bad guy after all"
Tyson-Bruno I think most people in the states were rooting for Bruno,I know I was
Thing is, if I'm not mistaken (and I may be) all three judges from the Hatton-Mayweather fight were from Las Vegas.
And Mayweather is from Michigan,not exactly a home town fave
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Re: Nationality of Judges in "World" Title Fights?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
err.. you mean like the Scots and Welsh hating the English?
Difference is,if its a Yank against an Englishmen,youd put aside differences for one night
The only way those three cities would put aside their differences would involve tactical nuke strikes
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Re: Nationality of Judges in "World" Title Fights?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Trainer Monkey
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
err.. you mean like the Scots and Welsh hating the English?
Difference is,if its a Yank against an Englishmen,youd put aside differences for one night
The only way those three cities would put aside their differences would involve tactical nuke strikes
No.. that's not the case at all. Wow! You'd be surprised how deep and passionate the hatred is between the home nations for certain peoples.
You know some Manchester UTD footballer supporters will cheer for Hatton to lose because he supports Man City.. that's people from his hometown.
In a recent WBO boxing contest - Alex Arthur (scotland) blamed the three English judges and English ref for favouring his English opponent Nicky Cook.
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Re: Nationality of Judges in "World" Title Fights?
Don't leave the fight up to the judges, then it really won't even matter where they're from. Judging cheating etc....is a people thing not a race thing.
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Re: Nationality of Judges in "World" Title Fights?
Quote:
there are more and higher ranked judges in the states,its a larger pool to choose from
The same judges names pop up time and time again though... Chuck Giampa, Dave Moretti, Paul Smith etc...
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Re: Nationality of Judges in "World" Title Fights?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mar
Don't leave the fight up to the judges, then it really won't even matter where they're from. Judging cheating etc....is a people thing not a race thing.
err..a?
:-\
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Re: Nationality of Judges in "World" Title Fights?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Quote:
there are more and higher ranked judges in the states,its a larger pool to choose from
The same judges names pop up time and time again though... Chuck Giampa, Dave Moretti, Paul Smith etc...
Your not getting either
A) The judges get ranked as well,and they dont get to judge fights if theyre ranking isnt good
or
B) We're having the same round and round as we allways do about Nationality,there is no Nationality in the states,none whatsoever. About the only thing I have in common with someone from Kansas is that we are both carbon based lifeforms
No common food,no common dress,not even common race,absolutely nothing whatsoever.
You live in a country that has generally the same basic ethnicity(dont even try,I know more about British history then you do I guarantee it)I live in a country where nobody has anything in common with anyone,ever.
I am no closer to a Floridian then I am to the moon(Which I learned the hard way when I had to live there for a year) region by region everything is different,its like going to a foriegn continent,and none of them like each other
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Re: Nationality of Judges in "World" Title Fights?
The sanctioning bodies are operated by/staffed with mainly US people including judges. You do get foreign judges officiating at big US fights (eg. the English gut (Larry O' Connell?) that gave Lewis-Holyfield 1 to Holyfield) but often it's the same small group of people who get picked from, make of that what you will.
I think it's just cheaper for the sanctioning bodies to assess and accredit domestic people and physically get them to the fights. They all grew from basically one-man bands (the WBU iirc is run from a cottage in Norfolk) so they're naturally going to start with the cheapest, easiest options to get enough judges to run their rackets, sorry, sanctioning bodies.
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Re: Nationality of Judges in "World" Title Fights?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Trainer Monkey
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Quote:
there are more and higher ranked judges in the states,its a larger pool to choose from
The same judges names pop up time and time again though... Chuck Giampa, Dave Moretti, Paul Smith etc...
Your not getting either
A) The judges get ranked as well,and they dont get to judge fights if theyre ranking isnt good
or
B) We're having the same round and round as we allways do about Nationality,there is no Nationality in the states,none whatsoever. About the only thing I have in common with someone from Kansas is that we are both carbon based lifeforms
No common food,no common dress,not even common race,absolutely nothing whatsoever.
You live in a country that has generally the same basic ethnicity(dont even try,I know more about British history then you do I guarantee it)I live in a country where nobody has anything in common with anyone,ever.
I am no closer to a Floridian then I am to the moon(Which I learned the hard way when I had to live there for a year) region by region everything is different,its like going to a foriegn continent,and none of them like each other
Blimey! I think your world view is a bit naive and a tad warped. :-\
And I haven't got a clue what any of that has do with ONLY in America we can find THREE American Judges deciding the outcome of a fight that involves a non-American.
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Re: Nationality of Judges in "World" Title Fights?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Trainer Monkey
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
The same judges names pop up time and time again though... Chuck Giampa, Dave Moretti, Paul Smith etc...
Your not getting either
A) The judges get ranked as well,and they dont get to judge fights if theyre ranking isnt good
or
B) We're having the same round and round as we allways do about Nationality,there is no Nationality in the states,none whatsoever. About the only thing I have in common with someone from Kansas is that we are both carbon based lifeforms
No common food,no common dress,not even common race,absolutely nothing whatsoever.
You live in a country that has generally the same basic ethnicity(dont even try,I know more about British history then you do I guarantee it)I live in a country where nobody has anything in common with anyone,ever.
I am no closer to a Floridian then I am to the moon(Which I learned the hard way when I had to live there for a year) region by region everything is different,its like going to a foriegn continent,and none of them like each other
Blimey! I think your world view is a bit naive and a tad warped. :-\
And I haven't got a clue what any of that has do with ONLY in America we can find THREE American Judges deciding the outcome of a fight that involves a non-American.
Im sure if I had the time energy,and desire,I could find a Mexican on Peurto Rican fight that had nothing but Mexican judges
And as far as Naive,or maybe geographically challenged,do you know how many time you could drive up and down the Isles before you did the trip from LA to Philly?
Youve floated these test balloons before Fenster,so Im considering the source,and the source has no clue whatsoever how the states operate.
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Re: Nationality of Judges in "World" Title Fights?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Kirkland Laing
The sanctioning bodies are operated by/staffed with mainly US people including judges. You do get foreign judges officiating at big US fights (eg. the English gut (Larry O' Connell?) that gave Lewis-Holyfield 1 to Holyfield) but often it's the same small group of people who get picked from, make of that what you will.
I think it's just cheaper for the sanctioning bodies to assess and accredit domestic people and physically get them to the fights. They all grew from basically one-man bands (the WBU iirc is run from a cottage in Norfolk) so they're naturally going to start with the cheapest, easiest options to get enough judges to run their rackets, sorry, sanctioning bodies.
Yeah there's numerous examples of foreign judges officiating in the States.
That doesn't answer though why outside the States there's no fight with home-country judges.. the sanctioning bodies can't appoint three UK judges?
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Re: Nationality of Judges in "World" Title Fights?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Kirkland Laing
The sanctioning bodies are operated by/staffed with mainly US people including judges. You do get foreign judges officiating at big US fights (eg. the English gut (Larry O' Connell?) that gave Lewis-Holyfield 1 to Holyfield) but often it's the same small group of people who get picked from, make of that what you will.
I think it's just cheaper for the sanctioning bodies to assess and accredit domestic people and physically get them to the fights. They all grew from basically one-man bands (the WBU iirc is run from a cottage in Norfolk) so they're naturally going to start with the cheapest, easiest options to get enough judges to run their rackets, sorry, sanctioning bodies.
Yeah there's numerous examples of foreign judges officiating in the States.
That doesn't answer though why outside the States there's no fight with home-country judges.. the sanctioning bodies can't appoint three UK judges?
And Ive explained it too you 5 times now,and so did Kirkland,its cheaper,theres a deeper pool to choose from
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Re: Nationality of Judges in "World" Title Fights?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Trainer Monkey
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Trainer Monkey
Your not getting either
A) The judges get ranked as well,and they dont get to judge fights if theyre ranking isnt good
or
B) We're having the same round and round as we allways do about Nationality,there is no Nationality in the states,none whatsoever. About the only thing I have in common with someone from Kansas is that we are both carbon based lifeforms
No common food,no common dress,not even common race,absolutely nothing whatsoever.
You live in a country that has generally the same basic ethnicity(dont even try,I know more about British history then you do I guarantee it)I live in a country where nobody has anything in common with anyone,ever.
I am no closer to a Floridian then I am to the moon(Which I learned the hard way when I had to live there for a year) region by region everything is different,its like going to a foriegn continent,and none of them like each other
Blimey! I think your world view is a bit naive and a tad warped. :-\
And I haven't got a clue what any of that has do with ONLY in America we can find THREE American Judges deciding the outcome of a fight that involves a non-American.
Im sure if I had the time energy,and desire,I could find a Mexican on Peurto Rican fight that had nothing but Mexican judges
And as far as Naive,or maybe geographically challenged,do you know how many time you could drive up and down the Isles before you did the trip from LA to Philly?
Youve floated these test balloons before Fenster,so Im considering the source,and the source has no clue whatsoever how the states operate.
Please do.. make sure it's a "world" title on the line though. Probably pretty obvious for three Mexicans to judge an all Mexican fight.
I hope you understand Britain is not made up of 60 million whites? ;)
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Re: Nationality of Judges in "World" Title Fights?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Trainer Monkey
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Kirkland Laing
The sanctioning bodies are operated by/staffed with mainly US people including judges. You do get foreign judges officiating at big US fights (eg. the English gut (Larry O' Connell?) that gave Lewis-Holyfield 1 to Holyfield) but often it's the same small group of people who get picked from, make of that what you will.
I think it's just cheaper for the sanctioning bodies to assess and accredit domestic people and physically get them to the fights. They all grew from basically one-man bands (the WBU iirc is run from a cottage in Norfolk) so they're naturally going to start with the cheapest, easiest options to get enough judges to run their rackets, sorry, sanctioning bodies.
Yeah there's numerous examples of foreign judges officiating in the States.
That doesn't answer though why outside the States there's no fight with home-country judges.. the sanctioning bodies can't appoint three UK judges?
And Ive explained it too you 5 times now,and so did Kirkland,its cheaper,theres a deeper pool to choose from
It's CHEAPER to send an American to Britain?
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Re: Nationality of Judges in "World" Title Fights?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Kirkland Laing
The sanctioning bodies are operated by/staffed with mainly US people including judges. You do get foreign judges officiating at big US fights (eg. the English gut (Larry O' Connell?) that gave Lewis-Holyfield 1 to Holyfield) but often it's the same small group of people who get picked from, make of that what you will.
I think it's just cheaper for the sanctioning bodies to assess and accredit domestic people and physically get them to the fights. They all grew from basically one-man bands (the WBU iirc is run from a cottage in Norfolk) so they're naturally going to start with the cheapest, easiest options to get enough judges to run their rackets, sorry, sanctioning bodies.
Yeah there's numerous examples of foreign judges officiating in the States.
That doesn't answer though why outside the States there's no fight with home-country judges.. the sanctioning bodies can't appoint three UK judges?
The BBBC wouldn't let them. I don't think they even let the WBU/F do that. If it's a world title fight in Britain, even a WBU fight, the BBBC want to at least look like they're fair and impartial. In the States, especially Vegas, the powers-that-be want judges who are reliable in that they'll vote for the aggressive fighter in a fight to encourage more exciting fights. IMHO anyway.
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Re: Nationality of Judges in "World" Title Fights?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Trainer Monkey
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Yeah there's numerous examples of foreign judges officiating in the States.
That doesn't answer though why outside the States there's no fight with home-country judges.. the sanctioning bodies can't appoint three UK judges?
And Ive explained it too you 5 times now,and so did Kirkland,its cheaper,theres a deeper pool to choose from
It's CHEAPER to send an American to Britain?
Lets try it using math,if there are 100 acredited judges from the states,and 50 others world wide,what are the odds that sooner or later a fight would end up with three American Judges?
Hell count your blessings until the late 60's European judges almost never got used in the states,youve come along way baby
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Re: Nationality of Judges in "World" Title Fights?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Trainer Monkey
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Trainer Monkey
Your not getting either
A) The judges get ranked as well,and they dont get to judge fights if theyre ranking isnt good
or
B) We're having the same round and round as we allways do about Nationality,there is no Nationality in the states,none whatsoever. About the only thing I have in common with someone from Kansas is that we are both carbon based lifeforms
No common food,no common dress,not even common race,absolutely nothing whatsoever.
You live in a country that has generally the same basic ethnicity(dont even try,I know more about British history then you do I guarantee it)I live in a country where nobody has anything in common with anyone,ever.
I am no closer to a Floridian then I am to the moon(Which I learned the hard way when I had to live there for a year) region by region everything is different,its like going to a foriegn continent,and none of them like each other
Blimey! I think your world view is a bit naive and a tad warped. :-\
And I haven't got a clue what any of that has do with ONLY in America we can find THREE American Judges deciding the outcome of a fight that involves a non-American.
Im sure if I had the time energy,and desire,I could find a Mexican on Peurto Rican fight that had nothing but Mexican judges
And as far as Naive,or maybe geographically challenged,do you know how many time you could drive up and down the Isles before you did the trip from LA to Philly?
Youve floated these test balloons before Fenster,so Im considering the source,and the source has no clue whatsoever how the states operate.
I could not find a Mexican, Argentine, Puerto Rican WORLD title fight with all domestic judges. Maybe you want to look deeper, but they pull in guys from all over.
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Re: Nationality of Judges in "World" Title Fights?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Kirkland Laing
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Kirkland Laing
The sanctioning bodies are operated by/staffed with mainly US people including judges. You do get foreign judges officiating at big US fights (eg. the English gut (Larry O' Connell?) that gave Lewis-Holyfield 1 to Holyfield) but often it's the same small group of people who get picked from, make of that what you will.
I think it's just cheaper for the sanctioning bodies to assess and accredit domestic people and physically get them to the fights. They all grew from basically one-man bands (the WBU iirc is run from a cottage in Norfolk) so they're naturally going to start with the cheapest, easiest options to get enough judges to run their rackets, sorry, sanctioning bodies.
Yeah there's numerous examples of foreign judges officiating in the States.
That doesn't answer though why outside the States there's no fight with home-country judges.. the sanctioning bodies can't appoint three UK judges?
The BBBC wouldn't let them. I don't think they even let the WBU/F do that. If it's a world title fight in Britain, even a WBU fight, the BBBC want to at least look like they're fair and impartial. In the States, especially Vegas, the powers-that-be want judges who are reliable in that they'll vote for the aggressive fighter in a fight to encourage more exciting fights. IMHO anyway.
That probably makes a bit more sense.
Look.. "World" title fights between Brits -
Naz-Hardy - judge: Roy Francis | judge: Mickey Vann | judge: Dave Parris ~
Eubank-Calzaghe - judge: Paul Thomas 116-111 | judge: Roy Francis 118-110 | judge: Dave Parris 118-109
The alphabets have no problem appointing all Brit judges to all Brit title fights.
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Re: Nationality of Judges in "World" Title Fights?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Trainer Monkey
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Trainer Monkey
And Ive explained it too you 5 times now,and so did Kirkland,its cheaper,theres a deeper pool to choose from
It's CHEAPER to send an American to Britain?
Lets try it using math,if there are 100 acredited judges from the states,and 50 others world wide,what are the odds that sooner or later a fight would end up with three American Judges?
Hell count your blessings until the late 60's European judges almost never got used in the states,youve come along way baby
Ok.. i suppose if there's NO judges anywhere in the whole wide world available on the night an American faces a non-American three American judges would make sense.
So we have eliminated COST as an excuse, yes, and it's now about availability?
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Re: Nationality of Judges in "World" Title Fights?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Trainer Monkey
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
It's CHEAPER to send an American to Britain?
Lets try it using math,if there are 100 acredited judges from the states,and 50 others world wide,what are the odds that sooner or later a fight would end up with three American Judges?
Hell count your blessings until the late 60's European judges almost never got used in the states,youve come along way baby
Ok.. i suppose if there's NO judges anywhere in the whole wide world available on the night an American faces a non-American three American judges would make sense.
So we have eliminated COST as an excuse, yes, and it's now about availability?
No its about ODDS,It would happen sooner or later,when there are twice as many US judges,it was going to happen eventually
What are the odds that it wouldnt,youd need serious Algebra to figure that out
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Re: Nationality of Judges in "World" Title Fights?
You know Fenster this is the equivalent of me sending a fighter to Cali,and complaining that all three of the judges were from the West Coast and there werent any West Virginia judges
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Re: Nationality of Judges in "World" Title Fights?
OK, Trainermonkey - you've done my head in enough for now ;)
By the way.. in the street I live on there's Pakistanis, Turkish Cypriots, West Indians, Chinese etc, etc... all walks of life ;)
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Re: Nationality of Judges in "World" Title Fights?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
OK, Trainermonkey - you've done my head in enough for now ;)
By the way.. in the street I live on there's Pakistanis, Turkish Cypriots, West Indians, Chinese etc, etc... all walks of life ;)
Very different then here in the states then,even in one city,they dont live together,or like each other.
And I know when I send a fighter to California,the odds of me getting a non West Coast judge is slim and nill,and slims on the first train out of town
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Re: Nationality of Judges in "World" Title Fights?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Trainer Monkey
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
OK, Trainermonkey - you've done my head in enough for now ;)
By the way.. in the street I live on there's Pakistanis, Turkish Cypriots, West Indians, Chinese etc, etc... all walks of life ;)
Very different then here in the states then,even in one city,they dont live together,or like each other.
And I know when I send a fighter to California,the odds of me getting a non West Coast judge is slim and nill,and slims on the first train out of town
Fenster was talking only about World title fights though. And again the fight that he brought up, all three judges were from Vegas. And this was for the Lineal Welterweight championship. And coincidently PBF also lives in Vegas.
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Re: Nationality of Judges in "World" Title Fights?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
killersheep
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Trainer Monkey
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
OK, Trainermonkey - you've done my head in enough for now ;)
By the way.. in the street I live on there's Pakistanis, Turkish Cypriots, West Indians, Chinese etc, etc... all walks of life ;)
Very different then here in the states then,even in one city,they dont live together,or like each other.
And I know when I send a fighter to California,the odds of me getting a non West Coast judge is slim and nill,and slims on the first train out of town
Fenster was talking only about World title fights though. And again the fight that he brought up, all three judges were from Vegas. And this was for the Lineal Welterweight championship. And coincidently PBF also lives in Vegas.
I can say I live in West Virginia,but Im originally from Philly
And youd be real suprised how many fights that LEAD to that linear title are set up exactly the way I said.
Sent a fighter to Sacramento,major stadium fight,did I bitch and whine that all three judges were west coast,and West Virginia wasnt represented at the Judges table?
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Re: Nationality of Judges in "World" Title Fights?
I think with the big high profile fights ,they make it a point to have a international trio.Ive seen quite a few under the radar ,lesser known title fights in one country or another with 3 of the same nationalities,I'm wanting to check fights in Argentina ;D.As for 3 foriegn Judges apointed in the U.S for 2 Americans....good question??I know that some huge points of contention among camps are in the nationality factors and wanting home turf representation?
For the year of 2000 ,Ive seen a breakdown of World title fights (wba,wbo,ibf,wba) and there host country for that year.....Tied for 2nd place was Germany and England with 18 a piece.......in the number 1 spot was The U.S with a total of 68 ! Did not realize that,Might answer some of the question.Those blasted Americans are just everywhere :fight:;D
