Paul Williams has a Nov. 29 HBO fight date... Clottey would like to be the opposing boxer but I think this fight will not happen... Clottey is with TopRank...
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Paul Williams has a Nov. 29 HBO fight date... Clottey would like to be the opposing boxer but I think this fight will not happen... Clottey is with TopRank...
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I thought Clottey was fighting Margarito?
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Originally Posted by CFH
That fight unfortunately fell through (I think they're preparing Margo for a Cotto rematch next year, Clottey might derail that plan)... I was also thinking what happened to Bob Arum matching his 2 star welter boxers (Margo vs. Clottey) when there's so many big fights at welter that can be made...
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Honestly, I think Clottey has a better chance of beating Margarito than Cotto. However, the fight I really want to see is Margarito - Williams II.
IMO Clottey beats both Margo and Cotto... but I can't decide between Clottey and Williams... I also think Williams beats both Margo and Cotto...
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I think Williams would definitely beat Cotto, styles make fights and all, plus the size difference. I think Margarito - Williams II would be a 50/50 fight. I think Cotto would beat Clottey, his body attack would drain Clottey, who has had stamina issues in the past. I think Margarito would just edge Clottey, again because of the body attack and stamina issues, but he's not as good a boxer as Cotto, so I'd give Clottey a decent shot at winning, though I'd still favor Margarito.Quote:
Originally Posted by SaddoBoxer
I doubt Cotto can chop down Clottey... Margo was not able to chop down an injured Clottey before... Cotto stopped Judah in the 11th (including using some low blows) while Clottey did it inside 9 rounds...Quote:
Originally Posted by CFHI think Williams would definitely beat Cotto, styles make fights and all, plus the size difference. I think Margarito - Williams II would be a 50/50 fight. I think Cotto would beat Clottey, his body attack would drain Clottey, who has had stamina issues in the past. I think Margarito would just edge Clottey, again because of the body attack and stamina issues, but he's not as good a boxer as Cotto, so I'd give Clottey a decent shot at winning, though I'd still favor Margarito.Quote:
Originally Posted by SaddoBoxer
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I'd wager Cotto hits the body harder and more accurately than Margarito. Also, Cotto, IMO, beat Judah in much more impressive fashion than Clottey did. Judah was still in the fight when it was stopped because of the cut, Cotto beat him much more completely.Quote:
Originally Posted by SaddoBoxerI doubt Cotto can chop down Clottey... Margo was not able to chop down an injured Clottey before... Cotto stopped Judah in the 11th (including using some low blows) while Clottey did it inside 9 rounds...Quote:
Originally Posted by CFHI think Williams would definitely beat Cotto, styles make fights and all, plus the size difference. I think Margarito - Williams II would be a 50/50 fight. I think Cotto would beat Clottey, his body attack would drain Clottey, who has had stamina issues in the past. I think Margarito would just edge Clottey, again because of the body attack and stamina issues, but he's not as good a boxer as Cotto, so I'd give Clottey a decent shot at winning, though I'd still favor Margarito.Quote:
Originally Posted by SaddoBoxer
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Clottey is a massive welter... Do you believe Clottey weighed 170 lbs. on fight nights? You can neutralize size advantage with a combination of excellent speed, power, volume and stamina... IMO Cotto only possessed moderate speed, power, volume and stamina at welter...Quote:
Originally Posted by CFHI'd wager Cotto hits the body harder and more accurately than Margarito. Also, Cotto, IMO, beat Judah in much more impressive fashion than Clottey did. Judah was still in the fight when it was stopped because of the cut, Cotto beat him much more completely.Quote:
Originally Posted by SaddoBoxerI doubt Cotto can chop down Clottey... Margo was not able to chop down an injured Clottey before... Cotto stopped Judah in the 11th (including using some low blows) while Clottey did it inside 9 rounds...Quote:
Originally Posted by CFH
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Clottey is a big welter like Margo and IMO Clottey will break down Cotto just like what Margo did...
Judah was still in the fight when the fight with Clottey was stopped but I think Judah's face will be heavily damaged if he was allowed to continue...
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Gah, Clottey is such a limited fighter. He has absolute no outside game whatsoever and any time he gets in with a good boxer like a Cotto or a Williams he is going to be handily decisioned. His only outside weapon is the right hand which is what caught Judah, other then that he is a middle of the road welterweight as far as the top guys go. And he isn't at all relentless like Margarito in fact he fades in the second half of just about every fight he is in while Margarito stays constant if not ramping it up. Cotto would box Clottey silly imo. That's not my adulation for Cotto just my feeling that Clottey is waiting to be found out. Already has actually but that ridiculous excuse that he broke his hand comes up. It's like Paulie Malignaggi using the right hand as the reason for not throwing the jab, or for getting hit so often by N'dou. Ridiculous.
As for Margarito-Williams II. I think Williams wins that one even more comfortably if he just keeps on his toes and doesn't get stationary as he did in the first fight which almost cost him.
Margarito-Williams is very hard to pick for me. So is Margarito-Cotto II I would like to see a Clottey fight for Cotto to rebound or maybe a Berto fight.
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I really like to see a Clottey-Cotto fight but again this fight will not happen soon... not after Margo-Cotto rematch... Clottey, Margo, Cotto are all TopRank boxers and Arum will not match these three with Williams...
Pavlik vs. Williams also fell through... Pavlik is also TopRank...
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Arum has no problem matching his fighters up in fact promoters prefer that that way they don't have to split promotional fees. And why would Clottey and Williams be an issue? Top Rank and the Goosens have worked together before.
I think it has something to do with Williams adviser, Al Haymon who happens to be PBF's adviser when Team PBF dumped the $8M Margo/TopRank offer...Quote:
Originally Posted by amat
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hell yea, i never thought of that match up. but paul williams wins to tall for clottey so paul can keep him at a distance he could even hurt clottey. pauls power has been improven alot lately and if he even kos clottey he will put pressure of tony for another fight
This also has something to do with the failed Pavlik vs. Williams fight negotiations... Arum said he will not do business with the Williams camp again.Quote:
Originally Posted by amat
I have to agree with this statement! I think Marg would beat Clotty but I think Cotto would dominate him for pretty much 12 rounds. Also I want to see the rematch between Williams and Margarito, I see Williams beating Marg more comfortably this time as he seems to be getting better and better with each fight.Quote:
Originally Posted by CFH
Clottey-Williams would be great
Cotto is a much more complete fighter than Clottey. Cotto will outbox Clottey and Clottey doesn't have the raw power of Tony to systematically wear Cotto down like Margarito did. Margarito was really the worse possible match up for Cotto, even more than Paul Williams. I've said for a long time, way before the fight happened the Margo was a tough matchup for Cotto because of the uppercuts, chin, and body work. Tony was able to win because of his superhuman chin and even in the rounds he lost, he made Cotto pay for everything. Clottey can put that kind of hurt on a guy (35 wins 20 KOs). Clottey is textbook and has good defense, but Cotto is faster, has better timing, and a more diverse offensive arsenal.Quote:
Originally Posted by SaddoBoxer
People are a little down on Cotto now because he got stopped by Tony, but he's still the the most complete fighter at WW and I think the only guy who can beat in at that weight is Tony.
If Cotto and Tony are going to fight again (bad idea for Cotto), Paul Williams should nut-up and fight Clottey in November. It's the most logical fight by far.
williams would win. he punches more than clottey
I think Williams can beat anyone in welter or lmw right now. He could be two division champ if he wanted. No one wants to fight the guy, I repeat no one wants to fight the guy. Cotto=no way..., Clottey and Margarito are his only options at ww and now Margarito is gonna be taking a gimme probably before another Cotto rematch. Williams would be wise to take this fight, raise his stock even more then the winner of Margarito-Cotto 2 would almost be forced to fight him....Berto is just too damn short to be mentioned.
Williams will win as Clottey will have trouble landing anything on him, and that especially since his output isn't really high. Williams will punch him silly though I would love to see the fight. Williams UD imo.
It's a good time for the welterweights -- lot of good fight potential. Margarito, Clottey, Williams, and Cotto are my top four.
It's difficult for me to determine a clear favorite out of the top four; (I'm going to parrot the talking heads and agree that Berto isn't ready for any of the top four, although given, that's an arguable point), because of fighting styles, the match ups are hard to summarize. Obviously, Margarito has Cotto's number and Williams has Margarito's. But, I feel like in a rematch, Clottey, without a broken hand, would beat Margarito. Superior power and defense. Clottey may not have the offensive boxing skills any of the others, (certainly not Cotto), but his defense looked great against Zab and he obviously he's got power. I wonder what a Williams - Clottey fight would look like? A lot of people would immediately be dismissive of Clottey, but if he dictated the tempo, I think it would be a long night. I hope this fight happens.
As far as the Cotto - Margarito rematch goes... maybe Cotto should call Kermit Citron and ask him how Margarito rematches go and how career purgatory is. In that fight, Cotto just couldn't hurt Margarito-- he hit him with everything he had; he out boxed him, he moved well, he hit the body and the head. Nothing worked. I think Cotto has the best boxing skills of the group, just not enough power. Which, is an amazing statement if you watched the Alfonso Gomez fight... was Gomez that soft or is Margarito made of granite?
During the Mosely-Mayorga fight, Lampley and Merchant said that Tony had passed on a 4 million dollar rematch with Williams to set up a rematch with Cotto, probably for bigger money. Well, that's funny considering that's what Floyd did to Tony, to make more money against Oscar, and Tony said floyd was ducking him. Who's ducking now.
As for Clottey-Williams, good fight that is Williams' to lose IMO. Should maintain control throughout, and win via decision. Wouldn't count Clottey out though.
Would be a good fight....Clotty would have to make sure he did not fade in the mid rounds
That would be a GREAT matchup!Quote:
Originally Posted by SaddoBoxer
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Originally Posted by rjj tszyuI have to agree with this statement! I think Marg would beat Clotty but I think Cotto would dominate him for pretty much 12 rounds. Also I want to see the rematch between Williams and Margarito, I see Williams beating Marg more comfortably this time as he seems to be getting better and better with each fight.Quote:
Originally Posted by CFH
And Tony has stepped up his game by 150% as well
Yeh Margarito was almost killin Paul in like the last 3 rounds of their fight...he could have beat him then but he started out too late in the fight. Marg TKO over Paul on their second fight
No prob's with the rematch but cannot see Tony taking Williams out by KO.Nor another welterweight right now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Manuel "Chubby" Medina
Paul Williams won the 12th round clear as day.Quote:
Originally Posted by Manuel "Chubby" Medina
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Originally Posted by Spicoli surfs 'NawlinsNo prob's with the rematch but cannot see Tony taking Williams out by KO.Nor another welterweight right now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Manuel "Chubby" Medina
By KO? Never know...Williams seems to have a durable chin but...Like I said before about many other guys...You try to bang with Tony you will be put to sleep....
His chin seems to be so freaking solid and his uppercuts are vicious
Killing him in the last 3 rounds? Williams won the last round. To say Margarito would KO him in a rematch is to ignore all the work Williams did. Remember, there's a reason why Margarito intentionally started late. In a rematch he may not have anything to offer in the latter rounds.Quote:
Originally Posted by Manuel "Chubby" Medina
Id like to see how much steam Cotto has left, before I start picking him to beat solid durable guys like Clottey.. I laugh because the majority of the forum sleeps on Clottey and picks him apart constantly about how he is nothing special, promoters are weary to put there fighters in with him and all the guy does for the most part is win, so that tells me is must be damn good then.. TO many fickle people around here
Also you guys are in for a rude awakening if you think Cotto is gonna come back from that brutal beat down still having that terminator aura about him. guaranteed that engine lost some horsepower. I said it after the mosley fight, when Cotto couldnt break Shane down he slammed it in reverse and had Mosley been better with punch selection and applied intelligent pressure he could have won that fight. Kudos to Miguel for countering Shane when he was coming in and winning the fight.
Clottey is a huge Welterweight with a damn good defense and solid chin, Cotto isint breaking him down either
I have to agree with JT Rock. Sometimes it's easy to overlook a guy because he hasn't made it yet. Clottey should have been fighting the top guys for a couple years now and probably hasn't because of his own efforts. He made Margarito look like a punching bag and even when his fists wilted he stood up to his power. And since then he hasn't done anything but win. My only complaint about Clottey is he seems to lack that killer instinct. He could have gone after Shamone Alvarez but didn't. Zab Judah was a coincidental TKO- he wasn't really pursuing a knockout so much as he was outclassing Zab. If he's going to beat one of the champions he's going to have to beat him up. And I don't have a problem with his stamina; he seems able to throw punches whenever he wants, but it doesn't seem like he wants to often enough.
I don't think your comparison to Floyd is fair. The difference is that Floyd never fought Tony. Tony has already fought Williams. Tony has also fought all-comers. I don't think he has ducked anybody. When he beats Cotto in their rematch, assuming Williams hasn't been beat by that point, my money is on Tony accepting that match for a big-time pay day.Quote:
Originally Posted by Unknowndonor
I think Williams beats Clottey. I would be surprised if Clottey beat Williams. Clottey didn't look too devestating in his fight against Judah. I don't think Williams would dominate Clottey, but he throws too many punches. As such, I foresee Williams cruising to decision victory in the neighborhood of 8 - 4.Quote:
Originally Posted by SaddoBoxer
Would be a good fight but I see a Williams win on Pts in a close good fight
I agree with your statement, just on a wholesale level. I also would like to see more 'gusto' and for him to finish opponents in maybe a more bloodthirsty way... I'm just worried about fighters doing things outside their comfort zone, and not sticking to their game plan. In the same way that if Oscar had stuck to the jab vs. Floyd he would have won, maybe Clottey should stick to his defense/power routine, the fear being that he doesn't do the other things well, (namely his offensive boxing skills aren't what they could be), and by switching up, he let someone back in a fight. But having said that, I would have loved see to him give Judah a Margarito style uppercut or some Cotto body punches that put his ass on the mat. I would have loved to see him beat so bad that he didn't want to fight anymore.Quote:
Originally Posted by Killface
I don't see Clottey giving Williams much trouble.
the cliche about "this is why they play the games" applies heavily to this fight- I don't know which to value more, (and there's nothing really definitive to prove either), Clottey's defense or Williams' offense? I lean toward a points decision for Williams because of most Judges propensity to reward the busier fighter, but (repeating myself) if Clottey dictates the tempo and his defense is good enough to nullify Williams in the same way he did Judah, it'll be a points win for Clottey. Dunno, that's why they fight instead of just talking about it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rantcatrat
another thought- wouldn't it be great if this was another Margarito v Cotto style win (for either)? that would make for a helluva showdown at some point?
Dan Rafael had a blog a while back that said Margarito-Williams wasn't going to happen anytime soon because Bob Arum has beef with Al Haymon, Williams' manager. It has something to do with the negotiations for Williams-Pavlik falling apart. Arum has said he won't do business with Haymon. Since Clottey is also promoted by Arum, this fight is not likely to happen anytime soon, although it makes a lot of sense. According to Rafael, on Nov. 29 Williams will likely fight either Michael Jennings (his WBO mandatory) at 147 or challenge Verno Phillips for the WBC 154 pound title.
After that, it would make a lot of sense for him to fight Mosley. Both guys are going to have to wait on Margarito and Cotto since they are probably going to rematch next June, so the only money fight for either at 147 or 154 is each other.