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Some people have pointed out including me that if Joe Calzaghe, fought and beat Kelly Pavlik. People would then be demanding Joe Calzaghe vs Chad Dawson.
Then it struck me what if Kelly Pavlik and Chad Dawson win there next fights. Then why not Kelly Pavlik and Chad Dawson, fight it out to determine who really deserves a shot at Joe Calzaghe vs Roy Jones winner ?
Because if Pavlik gets by Hopkins which there is a good chance he won't, he wouldn't stnad a chance agaisnt Dawson, Glen Johnson has a great chin, and could walk through Dawson's punches, but Pavlik wouldn't be able to, and Dawson would be the fastest, and biggest guy he would have ever foughten.
How do you think Chad Dawson vs Joe Calzaghe would go ?Quote:
Originally Posted by Taeth
Differently because Calzaghe has a better chin then Pavlik, he is faster then Pavlik, and he is just as busy as Pavlik. I think speed and chin are the issue Pavlik has with Dawson. Dawson has a respectable punch for a LHW, and he probably has the fastest hands in the division.
Joe has been cushioned through out his prime . He fought the great all time p4p Mario Viet twice in his prime? Why? Dawson destroys Joe. Kelly destroys Joe.Quote:
Originally Posted by ICB
Quote:
Originally Posted by ICB
i'd say the main reason this doesn't happen is because of time.. Calzaghe is already saying he's retiring after the Jones fight, and there are tiny hints that he MAY be interested in a Pavlik fight, but it's not even close to definite.. i'd say that if calzaghe wins, and decides he does want to fight kelly, i doubt that he's going to wait too long before it happens.. Pavlik is fighting only a month before calzaghe, so if pavlik wins, it will prob be at least another 5-6 months before he'd fight dawson, and then another 6 months til he would tentatively fight calzaghe.. I don't think calzaghe wants to wait another year before he retires, considering he said this could be his last..
Pavlik is a pretty big name now, he has that over dawson.. he can already get a fight with calzaghe.. if i were kelly,i wouldn't risk losing out on a huge pay day to fight dawson if i don't have to..
That's a bold statement - no way Dawson or Pavlik destroys Joe. Yes maybe they can beat him at this stage of his career cause he's been on the slide but to say they destroy him is wrong...... Got a feeling if Joe does well against Jones then he will be tempted for one last fight against Pavlik in 2009 but Dawson isn't a big enough name to sign a career off on. Pavlik is at the moment.Quote:
Originally Posted by southakron314Joe has been cushioned through out his prime . He fought the great all time p4p Mario Viet twice in his prime? Why? Dawson destroys Joe. Kelly destroys Joe.Quote:
Originally Posted by ICB
Quote:
Originally Posted by southakron314Joe has been cushioned through out his prime . He fought the great all time p4p Mario Viet twice in his prime? Why? Dawson destroys Joe. Kelly destroys Joe.Quote:
Originally Posted by ICB
If Calzaghe, Dawson and Pavlik fight no-one gets destroyed and if i had to pick one it would be Pavlik that gets taken apart.
When Taylor boxed Pavlik, Pavlik looked very mediocre and Taylor only fight 90secs a round Dawson and Calzaghe fight every second of every round.
Ive said it b4 and i`ll say it again A GOOD BOXER WITH GOOD FOOTWORK makes Pavlik look poor.
Personally, I don't think we're ever going to get to find out the answer to this one, because after the RJJ fight, I think Joe is going to be saying buh-bye to the fighting side of the sport. Don't think even Pavlik can tempt him. I think PAvlik v Calzaghe wouldbe a good one, with Joe breaking him down, but getting caught and rattled a few times alongthe way.Quote:
Originally Posted by The PocketRocket
You guys are forgetting one thing........Antonio Tarver.
I've got a feeling he's going to upset Dawson big time.
Dawson looked vulnerable against Johnson, I think Tarver can take him.
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Originally Posted by Bilbo
Well were were TRYING to forget him until u reminded us all lol. Thanks for that! haha
yeah i know what your saying, dawson didn't look that good and just got by a journey man. But i really expect him to put on a much much better showing in the Tarver fight and beat him without any dispute.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo
Could pull the upset. I just dont think he is busy enough.
First of all, Dawson needs to get past Tarver, which he might not. Second of all, Dawson isn't exactly known for his punching power. Third, Dawson is has chin questions of his own, and he is very hittable. Fourth, Dawson isn't a very big LWH. Two years ago he was fighting at 168 and he could probably still make that weight.Quote:
Originally Posted by Taeth
So no, you are wrong, Pavlik would stand a pretty good chance. He might not be the favorite, but you can't count him out.
I was thinking the same thing, he definately has the skill set, but he tends to wait too much when under heavy fire.Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkusdarkusQuote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo
Could pull the upset. I just dont think he is busy enough.
Are you kidding me? If Kessler can't beat Joe, then Kelly can't. Joe would badly outbox Pavlik.Quote:
Originally Posted by southakron314Joe has been cushioned through out his prime . He fought the great all time p4p Mario Viet twice in his prime? Why? Dawson destroys Joe. Kelly destroys Joe.Quote:
Originally Posted by ICB
You're wrong. Dawson isn't that hittable, watch him in any other fight besides against Glen Johnson who has quick sharp punches.Quote:
Originally Posted by RozzySeanFirst of all, Dawson needs to get past Tarver, which he might not. Second of all, Dawson isn't exactly known for his punching power. Third, Dawson is has chin questions of his own, and he is very hittable. Fourth, Dawson isn't a very big LWH. Two years ago he was fighting at 168 and he could probably still make that weight.Quote:
Originally Posted by Taeth
So no, you are wrong, Pavlik would stand a pretty good chance. He might not be the favorite, but you can't count him out.
Dawson isn't a big lhw? He is 6'3, he has a 76 1/2 inch reach, he is a big guy. He weighed 168 when he was younger, so what, Roy Jones Jr made 154 for 20 fights, and he was a big 168 pounder. Oscar De La HOya was a big welterweight, he started his career at 135, and even fought at 130.
Also he does have chin problems, but against much bigger punchers then Pavlik. Because his is the larger, much faster man out of the two, he is going to land first and more often.
Also I think Tarver does have a chance against Dawson, and if he does win then He would konck Pavlik the fuck out. Pavlik is so overrated on here its not even funny.
People are jumping on my back because I say guys like Berto are going to be very good fighters down the road, but guys like Pavlik who have way less potential are considered gods on this site. STOP HUMPING HIS BLUE COLLAR'ed ass.
First of all, numbskull, I wasn't humping his ass. I wasn't even saying that he would win. I was saying he has a chance. Sorry, I forgot, if I fighter isn't slick or fast they are overrated and suck. You are attracted to handspeed like a junkie is to dope. You salivate over the Mayweathers, Jones, Bertos, and Dawsons of the world because that's the your favorite style and to you that's what boxing it all about. Fair enough.Quote:
Originally Posted by TaethYou're wrong. Dawson isn't that hittable, watch him in any other fight besides against Glen Johnson who has quick sharp punches.Quote:
Originally Posted by RozzySeanFirst of all, Dawson needs to get past Tarver, which he might not. Second of all, Dawson isn't exactly known for his punching power. Third, Dawson is has chin questions of his own, and he is very hittable. Fourth, Dawson isn't a very big LWH. Two years ago he was fighting at 168 and he could probably still make that weight.Quote:
Originally Posted by Taeth
So no, you are wrong, Pavlik would stand a pretty good chance. He might not be the favorite, but you can't count him out.
Dawson isn't a big lhw? He is 6'3, he has a 76 1/2 inch reach, he is a big guy. He weighed 168 when he was younger, so what, Roy Jones Jr made 154 for 20 fights, and he was a big 168 pounder. Oscar De La HOya was a big welterweight, he started his career at 135, and even fought at 130.
Also he does have chin problems, but against much bigger punchers then Pavlik. Because his is the larger, much faster man out of the two, he is going to land first and more often.
Also I think Tarver does have a chance against Dawson, and if he does win then He would konck Pavlik the fuck out. Pavlik is so overrated on here its not even funny.
People are jumping on my back because I say guys like Berto are going to be very good fighters down the road, but guys like Pavlik who have way less potential are considered gods on this site. STOP HUMPING HIS BLUE COLLAR'ed ass.
Some people overrate Pavlik here, but don't lump me in with them. FYI, I've watched plenty of Dawson fights. The only time he's not hittable is if he's in with a bum. Adamek, Johnson, and Harding all hit him that's the total roster of decent opposition he has faced. Dawson is only chinny against bigger punchers than Pavlik? You mean to tell me that Eric Harding hits harder than Pavlik? With his 7 KO's out of 23 wins? You are kidding yourself if you don't think Pavlik has the power to stop Dawson.
No, I think you are underrating Pavlik because he doesn't possess the qualities in a fighter which you most appreciate.
1 problem guys, Jones will beat Calzaghe ;) :D
Joe only took one risk in his career and that was fighting kessler who at the time i think was injured and wasnt even tested yet. So putting joe in the ring with dawson, pavlik, glen, and even tarver loses badly. hes fighting the two oldest lightheavy weights in boxing who are not in there primes but can still put up a good fight doesnt even put him in the top 100 greatest fighters of all time. I only give Bhop his props for taking a fight with Pavlik because Joe is too SCARED to.Quote:
Originally Posted by ICB
You're probably right mate but I just feel if Joe can come off the Jones fight with a convincing win and Pavlik beats Hopkins the money for a Calazaghe/Pavlik fight would be mega millions and Joe would probably get the biggest pay day of his career. It would be a high risk sign off to his career but something I think Joe could achieve and then retire undefeated.Quote:
Originally Posted by superheavyrhunPersonally, I don't think we're ever going to get to find out the answer to this one, because after the RJJ fight, I think Joe is going to be saying buh-bye to the fighting side of the sport. Don't think even Pavlik can tempt him. I think PAvlik v Calzaghe wouldbe a good one, with Joe breaking him down, but getting caught and rattled a few times alongthe way.Quote:
Originally Posted by The PocketRocket
He doesn't lose badly to any of the above that you have named. Dawson might give him trouble with his skill, Pavlik I'm not convinced he's as good as people think he is but the other two aren't in Joe's class.Quote:
Originally Posted by kingfrnkJoe only took one risk in his career and that was fighting kessler who at the time i think was injured and wasnt even tested yet. So putting joe in the ring with dawson, pavlik, glen, and even tarver loses badly. hes fighting the two oldest lightheavy weights in boxing who are not in there primes but can still put up a good fight doesnt even put him in the top 100 greatest fighters of all time. I only give Bhop his props for taking a fight with Pavlik because Joe is too SCARED to.Quote:
Originally Posted by ICB
Rozzysean did good work in this thread ;D
They both KO him inside of 9.Quote:
Originally Posted by The PocketRocketThat's a bold statement - no way Dawson or Pavlik destroys Joe. Yes maybe they can beat him at this stage of his career cause he's been on the slide but to say they destroy him is wrong...... Got a feeling if Joe does well against Jones then he will be tempted for one last fight against Pavlik in 2009 but Dawson isn't a big enough name to sign a career off on. Pavlik is at the moment.Quote:
Originally Posted by southakron314Joe has been cushioned through out his prime . He fought the great all time p4p Mario Viet twice in his prime? Why? Dawson destroys Joe. Kelly destroys Joe.Quote:
Originally Posted by ICB
I don't agree with this post. Anyway you want to say it: Beating Jermain Taylor TWICE is as good as any two wins on Joe C's resume. You can say he only fights 90 second rounds etc etc, but at the end of the day, Jermain Taylor is Jermain Taylor. Taylor is still better that almost any super middleweight out there imo.Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkusdarkusQuote:
Originally Posted by southakron314Joe has been cushioned through out his prime . He fought the great all time p4p Mario Viet twice in his prime? Why? Dawson destroys Joe. Kelly destroys Joe.Quote:
Originally Posted by ICB
If Calzaghe, Dawson and Pavlik fight no-one gets destroyed and if i had to pick one it would be Pavlik that gets taken apart.
When Taylor boxed Pavlik, Pavlik looked very mediocre and Taylor only fight 90secs a round Dawson and Calzaghe fight every second of every round.
Ive said it b4 and i`ll say it again A GOOD BOXER WITH GOOD FOOTWORK makes Pavlik look poor.
Your last statement should be qualified. For example, at middleweight, I absolutely disagree with you. What "Good Boxer" with "Good Footwork" at middleweight could beat Kelly? Felix Sturm is a good boxer with good footwork. Do you think Felix Sturm would last 12 with Pavlik?
If Pavlik beats Bernard, I would step back down to middleweight and beat the winner of the Felix Sturm v. Sylvester fight. I assume Pavlik would be heavily favored in those fights. Then, go and fight Arthur Abraham. That is a challenging fight. On the one hand, AA's size and reach are tailor-made for Pavlik; on the other hand, AA has a wicked style.
After that fight Joe. Win or lose you make a bundle. If you lose, you lost to an ATG, if you win you are an ATG.
you have got to be stupid what can kessler do to beat pavlik. he cant ko pavlik, kessler is an overrated fighter with only one decent fighter on his resume. kelly kos kessler he got hurt against calzaghe who is no puncher at all. and you think hes gonna survive in the ring with kelly:confused:.boi stop.Quote:
Originally Posted by TaethAre you kidding me? If Kessler can't beat Joe, then Kelly can't. Joe would badly outbox Pavlik.Quote:
Originally Posted by southakron314Joe has been cushioned through out his prime . He fought the great all time p4p Mario Viet twice in his prime? Why? Dawson destroys Joe. Kelly destroys Joe.Quote:
Originally Posted by ICB
Guys i may not be able to do RBR, my mom has to go to hospital for heart problems. Not sure what it is yet but i probably won't have time to do RBR, so sorry guys can someone step up and take my place if im not here ? cheers.
Where's the anger coming from? Please explain why you think Pavlik is overrated before ranting about it.Quote:
Originally Posted by TaethYou're wrong. Dawson isn't that hittable, watch him in any other fight besides against Glen Johnson who has quick sharp punches.Quote:
Originally Posted by RozzySeanFirst of all, Dawson needs to get past Tarver, which he might not. Second of all, Dawson isn't exactly known for his punching power. Third, Dawson is has chin questions of his own, and he is very hittable. Fourth, Dawson isn't a very big LWH. Two years ago he was fighting at 168 and he could probably still make that weight.Quote:
Originally Posted by Taeth
So no, you are wrong, Pavlik would stand a pretty good chance. He might not be the favorite, but you can't count him out.
Dawson isn't a big lhw? He is 6'3, he has a 76 1/2 inch reach, he is a big guy. He weighed 168 when he was younger, so what, Roy Jones Jr made 154 for 20 fights, and he was a big 168 pounder. Oscar De La HOya was a big welterweight, he started his career at 135, and even fought at 130.
Also he does have chin problems, but against much bigger punchers then Pavlik. Because his is the larger, much faster man out of the two, he is going to land first and more often.
Also I think Tarver does have a chance against Dawson, and if he does win then He would konck Pavlik the fuck out. Pavlik is so overrated on here its not even funny.
People are jumping on my back because I say guys like Berto are going to be very good fighters down the road, but guys like Pavlik who have way less potential are considered gods on this site. STOP HUMPING HIS BLUE COLLAR'ed ass.
Pavlik will not fight Dawson or Tarver or any other top tend light heavyweight with punching power. He is bigger than most middleweights and supermiddleweights. If he can still make the weight, why risk it moving up?
His opponents for his next fight would be anyone of the following: Kessler, Abraham, the German middleweight champ btw Sturm & Sylvester, or maybe Winkie Wright. I believe any of these fights will happen even if Pavlik loses to Bernard.
Assuming he gets by Bernard, Pavlik would love a shot at Calzaghe for the money, but Calzaghe said he is retiring. Losing to Calzaghe poses no downside. There is only upside: he gains international exposure regardless of the outcome, there is no risk of Calzaghe hurting him, and he makes oodles of money. Besides, losing to an all-time great isn't too much of a blemish on an otherwise spotless record. At the moment, I agree Calzaghe would be heavily favored, but if Pavlik knocks out Bernard...