cant decide myself, but i certainly thought hopkins was on a decline, but to beat pavlik like that i was wrong, thoughts on if this fight has further put joe up in the p4p and legacy rankings
Printable View
cant decide myself, but i certainly thought hopkins was on a decline, but to beat pavlik like that i was wrong, thoughts on if this fight has further put joe up in the p4p and legacy rankings
no, he barley won a split decision. and many people think he still lost. just cause he won a very close decision against bhop and hopkins beat the crap outta pavlik doesnt mean it cements joes legacy at all. but bhop beating a young undefeated champion does more for his legacy which has already been accomplished.
Also. I saw hopkins get severely gassed after 6 against joe and stop punching entirely, i didn't see that tonight.
All tonight proved was that hopkins COULD have fought a much more active fight against joe than he did.
Now I'm questioning if he trained properly for the Joe fight. Hopkins tonight would have beaten Joe IMO.
Calzaghe stopped Hopkins from fighting a 'more active' fight that's the difference ;)
Please tell me you are being sarcastic?
Yeah, absolutely no doubt about it.Quote:
Originally Posted by intoccabile
Its nonsense to say that this version of BHop would have beaten Calzaghe. Pavlik was slow, flat and didnt throw anything. Of course BHop wasnt gassed in there. Pavlik had no output and struggled to even shoot of the jab. Pavlik didnt apply intelligent pressure, Calzaghe does. And Calzaghe is far slicker than Pavlik, faster, and an all round far superior boxer.Quote:
Originally Posted by intoccabile
If Hopkins faces Calzaghe again, it will be a wider victory for Joe. Calzaghe has that style worked out now, and would just bring it to Hopkins earlier.
Hopkins fought a great fight, but to suggest that would have been enough to deter Calzaghe is fantasyland stuff. As far as Im concerned Calzaghe hismself had the off night against Hopkins, and still cantered home down the stretch.
I wouldnt mind seeing them at it again actually, now that Pavlik has fallen off the radar.
Miles,frankly your full of it,you can make a clear case Bernard won.Ive never complained about the decision, because work rate even without landing,which Joe rarely did,will get you the judges. But only one fighter got hurt in that fight,and it was Joe.
The only things that got hurt in that fight going Joes way was,Joes knuckles and Bernards biceps
Don´t think so, but I was surprised to see B´hop being the Ghostbuster ;)
I dont think a case can be made for Hopkins winning that. The knockdown kept it close enough, but Hopkins was completely outhustled from the 6th onwards. And Calzaghe was clearly working his way into it prior to that. Calzaghe got put down and got straight back up. The only thing hurt was Calzaghes pride having made the start he did.Quote:
Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey
Like I say, I wouldnt mind seeing a rematch because I think Calzaghe has the smarts to do it much more concisively.
Actually the rematch Id like to see is Clazeghe Kessler,Id like to see what Mikel does with two healthy hands in thereQuote:
Originally Posted by milesI dont think a case can be made for Hopkins winning that. The knockdown kept it close enough, but Hopkins was completely outhustled from the 6th onwards. And Calzaghe was clearly working his way into it prior to that. Calzaghe got put down and got straight back up. The only thing hurt was Calzaghes pride having made the start he did.Quote:
Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey
Like I say, I wouldnt mind seeing a rematch because I think Calzaghe has the smarts to do it much more concisively.
Would be an interesting fight, but Calzaghe won that last one too convincingly. Calzaghe has probably this fight and one more maximum. I cannot imagine Kessler getting another chance at Joe.Quote:
Originally Posted by Trainer MonkeyActually the rematch Id like to see is Clazeghe Kessler,Id like to see what Mikel does with two healthy hands in thereQuote:
Originally Posted by milesI dont think a case can be made for Hopkins winning that. The knockdown kept it close enough, but Hopkins was completely outhustled from the 6th onwards. And Calzaghe was clearly working his way into it prior to that. Calzaghe got put down and got straight back up. The only thing hurt was Calzaghes pride having made the start he did.Quote:
Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey
Like I say, I wouldnt mind seeing a rematch because I think Calzaghe has the smarts to do it much more concisively.
Still,Joe and Bernard go after each other again,Ive allready seen this fight,Bernard will hurt Joe early,and try to coast in the second half of the fight.Quote:
Originally Posted by milesWould be an interesting fight, but Calzaghe won that last one too convincingly. Calzaghe has probably this fight and one more maximum. I cannot imagine Kessler getting another chance at Joe.Quote:
Originally Posted by Trainer MonkeyActually the rematch Id like to see is Clazeghe Kessler,Id like to see what Mikel does with two healthy hands in thereQuote:
Originally Posted by miles
The judging may go differently, but it will be the same fight.
Kessler with two hands against Joe would be WAY more interesting
Just proves that Kelly was overhyped and I include myself in doing that.
Bernard took him to school and showed that Kelly only has one real way of fighting. People like Hopkins and Calzaghe are versatile and can adjust which is why they have been at the top so long.
It makes Jack Loew look like the mouthy clown he is, I bet Enzo Calzaghe is laughing his head off - They said Kelly wasn't upto it and Bernard proved them right.
For the record Joe beat Bernard by imposing his fight on Hopkins and clawed his way back from the early set back of a knockdown - thats proof of Greatness and Bhop schooling Pavlik, who couldn't impose his fight game on Hopkins, just emphasizes that Bhop and Joe are Great fighters.
You can moan and complain but you can't change the result.
I agree that this fight shows how great Joe Calzaghe is.
Everyone made an excuse than Hopkins was past his prime but he just went in with the best young America and dominated him easily . Proof that Joe must have boxed really well to land so many shots on Hopkins.
I don't think so because I thought Hopkins deserved a clear 115-112 win against Calzaghe. Landed easily the more effective shots. I am tired of more activity wins. What the hell about defense? OK, a guy throws more punches; if you block or duck them, isn't that more a credit to you than the guy throwing punches? Why does activity trump defense these days? It's crap.Quote:
Originally Posted by oakleyno1
Ah come on Rob yesterday you said this was an easy pointless fight Pavlik just to get a name on his record and when Hopkins defies father time with a truly great performance you dimiss it as just Pavlik being overratted? :confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by WelshDevilRob
Hopkins was simply superb last night.
I still don't think he'd beat Calzaghe because Calzaghe is the second best fighter on the planet imo and has the beating of everyone from 160 -175 (with Dawson being the danger man) but this was a stellar performance from Hopkins.
Pavlik was a bit overhyped but no-one expected a thrashing like that.
And YES it does highlight how good Calzaghe is.
Although Hopkins thinks he won the Calzaghe fight.. last night, he himself admitted he could have lost to Calzaghe by telling Ron Borges - styles make fights, Calzaghe throws a ton of punches ;)
Hopkins didn't fight anything like when he fought Calzaghe he was much better last night and it wasn't a case of Pavlik making him look better than he was Hopkins owned this young mans ASS!. Calzaghe only won by SD12 and many thought Hopkins won when Hopkins fought Calzaghe he fought very flat and didn't seem nowhere near as motivated as he did for this had he turned up for Calzaghe as he did for Pavlik calzaghe would have had problems.
You can't tell me that Calzaghe didn't also fight a whole lot better than Pavlik did.Quote:
Originally Posted by tysonbruno
Pavlik barely landed a meaningful punch in the whole fight, Calzaghe clearly thre more and outlanded Hopkins down the stretch. It was a very close fight but Calzaghe did far better against Hopkins than Pavlik did and it was nothing to do with Hopkins being out of sorts against Calzaghe.
Calzaghe fought much better against Hopkins than Pavlik did.
Just look at the punch stats. Pavlik threw 463 punches and landed 108 against Hopkins, Calzaghe threw 707 landing 232 literally more than double.
I think that has a lot to do with why Hopkins did better against Kelly than Joe ;)
Yes Calzaghe fought better than Pavlik did vs Hopkins but Hopkins fought 10 times better than he did vs Calzaghe his whole attitude towards the job in hand was loads better than when he fought Calzaghe he looked loads fitter if had fought in this way vs Calzaghe after dropping him in the 1st round he would have beaten Calzaghe.Quote:
Originally Posted by BilboYou can't tell me that Calzaghe didn't also fight a whole lot better than Pavlik did.Quote:
Originally Posted by tysonbruno
Pavlik barely landed a meaningful punch in the whole fight, Calzaghe clearly thre more and outlanded Hopkins down the stretch. It was a very close fight but Calzaghe did far better against Hopkins than Pavlik did and it was nothing to do with Hopkins being out of sorts against Calzaghe.
Calzaghe fought much better against Hopkins than Pavlik did.
Why's that?Quote:
Originally Posted by intoccabile
You think having somebody throwing punches at the rate that Calzaghe was and with his general workrate, wouldn't affect Hopkins ability to be more offensive he was able to be in the Pavlick fight :confused:
Ah I know what happened. Calzaghe fought an Old Hopkins, but suddenly Hopkins has be rejuvenated in between fights and lost 5 years of his age :rolleyes:
If Hopkins fought how he did in the first 5 rounds against Calzaghe then he would've beaten Calzaghe! Don't you think the fact that he couldn't may have a little bit to do with the way Calzaghe fought from round 6 onwards rather than Hopkins suddenly 'gassing' in a way that he never did against Taylor (in fact Hopkins didn't start until round 9) Tarver, Wright etc etc etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by tysonbrunoYes Calzaghe fought better than Pavlik did vs Hopkins but Hopkins fought 10 times better than he did vs Calzaghe his whole attitude towards the job in hand was loads better than when he fought Calzaghe he looked loads fitter if had fought in this way vs Calzaghe after dropping him in the 1st round he would have beaten Calzaghe.Quote:
Originally Posted by BilboYou can't tell me that Calzaghe didn't also fight a whole lot better than Pavlik did.Quote:
Originally Posted by tysonbruno
Pavlik barely landed a meaningful punch in the whole fight, Calzaghe clearly thre more and outlanded Hopkins down the stretch. It was a very close fight but Calzaghe did far better against Hopkins than Pavlik did and it was nothing to do with Hopkins being out of sorts against Calzaghe.
Calzaghe fought much better against Hopkins than Pavlik did.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kingfrnk
Of course it doers you muppet!
Pavlik did not win one round and was exposed as a middling champion with power.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tysonbruno
Hopkins fought the same against Calzaghe and Pavlik. He was bouncing looking to hit the hold. Thing is Calzaghe has superb footwork and has ring smarts Pavlik just looked like a 169lb dummy tbh.
I thought this was a dangerous fight for Hopkins, not because of Pavliks size or power (although he looked to be lacking in both departments at this higher weight) but the age, I though Hopkins would be a sitting duck when he trired late against someone like Pavlik.
Hopkins was able to avoid all Pavliks slow shots and land on his open mug at will, Calzaghe would have loved that kind of opponent.
Could you imagine Joe in there last night, he may not have Hopkins one shot power but he would have landed so many, I see the fight being stopped around the 6th, Kellys head was being ripped back time and again.
Shame American promoters have to build up what lean world hopes they have only for such spectacular falls, Lacy and Taylor being 2 other prime examples.
Calzaghe has the beating of anybody, Hopkins couldnt work the way he would have liked against Joe because Joe was putting a glove in his face when he tried opening up.
I thought Kelly may be wrong for Joe but I bet Joe is p*ssed off he didnt get there first now!!
You can NOT argue with these morons, Joe could knock out Vitali and there'd still be a but. Last nights fight DID improve Joe's legacy since it proved that it wasn't Hop's age that made him gas so badly late on but Joe's unorthodox boxing.Quote:
Originally Posted by BIG HIf Hopkins fought how he did in the first 5 rounds against Calzaghe then he would've beaten Calzaghe! Don't you think the fact that he couldn't may have a little bit to do with the way Calzaghe fought from round 6 onwards rather than Hopkins suddenly 'gassing' in a way that he never did against Taylor (in fact Hopkins didn't start until round 9) Tarver, Wright etc etc etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by tysonbrunoYes Calzaghe fought better than Pavlik did vs Hopkins but Hopkins fought 10 times better than he did vs Calzaghe his whole attitude towards the job in hand was loads better than when he fought Calzaghe he looked loads fitter if had fought in this way vs Calzaghe after dropping him in the 1st round he would have beaten Calzaghe.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo
Hopkins is a fucking legend, if he really was old and Kelly got lucky these same people would open threads today saying Kelly could've kicked the shit out of Monzon and Hagler and SRR (some were saying it last week???)
I think the bigger question is what does it say about Jermain Taylor???Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
I think why Hopkin's was more agressive is because he saw Pavlik had alot more flaws than many thought,and he could read what Pavlik was going to do.It was a master class from the old dude.
if calzaghe was american! well he would be the greatest of all time.
lennox lewis did everything in the americans backyard but it wasnt enuff, never is! why beacuse he aint american.
simple as!!!!!!
To an extent it does I suppose. I mean styles do make fights, but Pavlik made Bernard look like he was still in his prime, while Joe at least made him look his age.
That in itself deserves accolades.
yeah im pretty interested in his fight with lacy, taylor hasnt looked good in a long time, could even see lacy stopping him...Quote:
Originally Posted by LyleI think the bigger question is what does it say about Jermain Taylor???Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
Doesn't say anything. He tosses looping punches around - that's the counter for lateral movement. He's actually a counter to Bhop stylistically dispute all of his flaws and bhop still managed to win both fights in alot of peoples eyes.Quote:
Originally Posted by LyleI think the bigger question is what does it say about Jermain Taylor???Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
And even for those who thought Taylor won,he really didnt,because Taylor has never been the same fighter since BHOPQuote:
Originally Posted by intoccabileDoesn't say anything. He tosses looping punches around - that's the counter for lateral movement. He's actually a counter to Bhop stylistically dispute all of his flaws and bhop still managed to win both fights in alot of peoples eyes.Quote:
Originally Posted by LyleI think the bigger question is what does it say about Jermain Taylor???Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
In my opinion, JC is magical in the ring he is hard to hit and throws lots of punches ! I only wish JC will beat RJJ, then beat Pavlik (would everyone then say that Pavlik was not good as first thought) then beat BHop again then beat Tarver then beat Dawson then for good measure kick Frochs arse ! Then all the JC haters will have to admit that he aint that bad ! or will there be someone else that he would have to beat b4 he is considered World Class ?
American's are narrow-minded, just look at their performance at the Olympics... they are just not good enough at the moment, but just try and get them to admit it.
If you are going to create an alt account at least try not to make it too obvious, just shrinking your avatar a little isn't going to fool anybody.Quote:
Originally Posted by GuyIncognito76
This is stupid, let Joe's fights cement his legacy not his opponents victories. I thought Joe was lucky to get that decision. If he beats RJJ that will cement his legacy plenty. He already has a great career.
Beating RJJ will be a piece of piss compared to Hopkins. Jones is no threat.Quote:
Originally Posted by No Contest
Pavlik looked a complete and utter novice out there last night, he has small town coaches and probably shite sparing partners.
I agree with what other posters have wrote, Joe would have also took Pavlik to school. Pavlik needs to get back to 160 and fight duds like Duddy.
More like hopkins got lucky to have one judge in the bag for him. Calzaghe won a clear unanimous decision. it wasn't close.It wasn't a blowout but it wasn't close.