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I think this win vaults Hopkins into the the top 10 fighters of all-time. Beating a prime 26 year old with a murderous punch is rare stuff. You could mention Foreman, but Foreman was dominated and let's face it, got in a lucky pair of combinations. Hopkins beat Kelly from pillar to post. It wasn't close. Hats off to Bernard; this win enhances his legacy in a major way.
Awsome performance although, Pavlik was always overrated (just like Chad Dawson) American's are desperate for a new superstar.
Calzaghe should've fought Pavlik this time, he always just stands still in front of his opponents, Joe would've had a field day.
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Originally Posted by GuyIncognito76
chad and pavlik are not overrated you ass. Pavlik got beat by a great fighter who also took calzaghe to skool. and how is chad dawson overrated he beat glen and tarver who are good fighters, and are some of the best the 175 division has to offer.
Yeah he must be a top 10 star imo.
His achievements are incredible. Longest ever reigning middleweight champ, record for most middleweight defenses (I think, maybe Monzon?) and then did what Sugar Ray couldn't and jumped two weight classes to defeat the Ring champ at 175.
Now to completely dominate the reigning undisputed middleweight champ 17 years his junior is an amazing feat. And he did it without holding and clinching.
The most amazing part is that Hopkins could still go on from this. Chad Dawson must surely beckon now, maybe a rematch with Calzaghe or Jones Jr.
To still be winning legacy defining fights against current p4p stars at age 43 is unheard of in the sport of boxing.
I actually think B Hop's greatness will not truly be recognised for another generation or so, for me he's hands down one of the greatest fighters of all time.
I always said he was the #3 MW of all time and deserved to be mentioned with guys like SRR, Hagler, Monzon, ect. This makes me feel even more justified in saying that.
When you look at the length of his reign and the guys he has beaten I'd actually put Hopkins higher than Monzon and Hagler on the all time p4p rankings.Quote:
Originally Posted by Beanflicker
If yesterday's fight had taken place at 160 I'd have said Hopkins was the greatest middleweight of all time.
As it is he has to be one of the top 10 fighters ever.
Not just his wins, but even his losses, he's never been beat down im his entire career and only one fighter Roy Jones, could you argue clearly deserved the decision against him.
All of his other losses were close and most controversial.
I have no doubt he could have beaten Hagler, Monzon and Robinson well.
SRR is overrated at Middleweight he was 8-6 in Middleweight title fights i believe. He was too hot and cold to be considered above Bernard Hopkins at Middleweight, i would say Bernard Hopkins is for certain the 3rd best Middleweight of all time only behind Carlos Monzon, Marvin Hagler.Quote:
Originally Posted by Beanflicker
Yeh, I just don't get the SRR Greatest middleweight argument, so what if he is the only one that one the title five times, that's coz Hagler Mozon, Hopkins didn't lose their title 4 times in the 1st place. SRR Greatest of all time P4P, YES, but not greatest Middle weight. I also agree that B-Hop has a big shout for being the 3rd greatest Middleweight of all time. I don't like his opposition, but he dominated for a decade and probably sits above Grebb, Zale, Walker, Burely, Ketchel and Cerdan at MW.Quote:
Originally Posted by ICBSRR is overrated at Middleweight he was 8-6 in Middleweight title fights i believe. He was too hot and cold to be considered above Bernard Hopkins at Middleweight, i would say Bernard Hopkins is for certain the 3rd best Middleweight of all time only behind Carlos Monzon, Marvin Hagler.Quote:
Originally Posted by Beanflicker
Tarver
Wright
Calzaghe
Pavlik
b2b at 42-43yo the man is a dapper! he has the best resume since Ali imho and half of his best displays are when he was over 40yo!
My views exactly. Hindsight will deservedly look good on Hopkins, it comes to a point when you ask what you have to do to go ahead of the old timers, well for me Hop passed the likes of Hagler and Monzon last night. No doubt there'll be some revision of Pavlik's ability, however he totally schooled him in a way the other guys never did to the other also rans.Quote:
Originally Posted by BilboWhen you look at the length of his reign and the guys he has beaten I'd actually put Hopkins higher than Monzon and Hagler on the all time p4p rankings.Quote:
Originally Posted by Beanflicker
If yesterday's fight had taken place at 160 I'd have said Hopkins was the greatest middleweight of all time.
As it is he has to be one of the top 10 fighters ever.
Not just his wins, but even his losses, he's never been beat down im his entire career and only one fighter Roy Jones, could you argue clearly deserved the decision against him.
All of his other losses were close and most controversial.
I have no doubt he could have beaten Hagler, Monzon and Robinson well.
He is not one of the top 10 fighters ever, don't get carried away. He is a fucking great fighter, but he wasn't better then Mayweather or Roy Jones Jr. once again going by p4p criteria they would have both beaten him. Mayweather has a similar skill set to Hopkins but is way faster. Roy Jones Jr in modern boxing was in a class of his own even though his competition wasn't the best ever, James Toney was way better then Pavlik and Roy did the same thing to him. Hell Roy even beat Bernard with a broken hand. Not that Bernard isn't close to them, but he isn't at their level let alone the Ray Robinson's of the world.
Have you seen Oscar's resume?Quote:
Originally Posted by Markusdarkus
Boxing ratings doesn't work like a computer game, you don't make up points for speed, power, balance, footwork and then add it all up to see who the winner is. Greats are determined by doing great things in the ring against all comers, a pre-prime Hopkins was all Roy could handle , and Jones has spent the last 7 years since the Tito fight avoiding the rematch. Sure Floyd is a brilliant boxer, and may well have an almost perfect style, but he isn't a face anyone anytime fighter like Hop. Rather than leaving hypothetical questions like 'what would have Hopkins have done against Pavlik?' in the mouths of the fans and so-called experts, he fucking answers them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Taeth
Just cos a lot of fans 'think' that Floyd can school Margarito, 90% of the same people reckoned that Pavlik could defeat Hopkins. If we rated people entirely on what the majority think would happen, then Pavlik would have wrongly been held up higher in the p4p rankings than Hopkins.
great win b-hop is deff in the top 10 of all time
i think finishing off his career avenging his loss to jones would be good
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Originally Posted by TaethHave you seen Oscar's resume?Quote:
Originally Posted by Markusdarkus
Not as good as Hopkins and when you factor in his age its no match.
Hopkins, like Foremen, deserves extra points for all his accomplishments after 40 years of age, let alone what he did for his whole career. That is simply something that 99% of athletes of ANY sport are unable to do. Also, like Oscar, this man has fought absolutely everyone the public demanded to see him in the ring with (with the exception of a rematch with Roy, which may still happen however). The argument must now also be made that this man has the greatest chin in boxing history, as in 55 pro fights he's never even been remotely in danger of being stopped. There isn't a fighter who ever lived who would have an easy time beating him, as in each of his losses he was competitive up until the final bell. And most importantly, his three signature wins (Trinidad, Tarver, and Pavlik) were not wars, but strait up clinics in which odds makers thought he would get destroyed beforehand.