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Well to be honest Miles im not a religious person but i do think God exists, although i think he left this place along time ago.Quote:
Originally Posted by miles
Here we go again.
I think it does exist, but not in the anthropomorphic ways most people believe. I hope there is a God.
I do waffle on the subject though, at times I think there cannot possibly be a God, and other times I feel quite differently.
Im not a religious person at all and would probably describe myself as an atheist above all else. But I do find it interesting to hear different takes on it all.Quote:
Originally Posted by ICBWell to be honest Miles im not a religious person but i do think God exists, although i think he left this place along time ago.Quote:
Originally Posted by miles
Well obviously I believe he exists, but the word God means so many different things to different people.
Do you mean specifically the Judeao Christian God doesn't exist or that you don't believe the universe shows any evidence of being created by a higher power at all?
I never question whether God exists but I often wonder if he believes in me?
The part about the universe Bilbo is very interesting, i've never thought of it that way before.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo
To be honest I threw it out there as a question only. I will answer properly tomorrow. Im not in the best of condition to debate god really.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo
I thought the New Kids On The Block reunion was ample evidence,no loving god would allow that to happen
Im still too inebriated to discuss that too. :p:-\Quote:
Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey
Im telling you its conclusive evidence that there is no god.Quote:
Originally Posted by milesIm still too inebriated to discuss that too. :p:-\Quote:
Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey
If thats not enough for you, I point you to exhibit B, Paris Hilton's still thriving career
You may well be right!! ;DQuote:
Originally Posted by Trainer MonkeyIm telling you its conclusive evidence that there is no god.Quote:
Originally Posted by milesIm still too inebriated to discuss that too. :p:-\Quote:
Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey
If thats not enough for you, I point you to exhibit B, Paris Hilton's still thriving career
Im going to bed, Im done for the night. Maybe a silly thread to have started, but It felt like a good idea at the time. Night folks!!
The what is in God's place?
The ghost of Paul Lynde, it makes just as much senseQuote:
Originally Posted by Lyle
Humankinds need to answer its burning existential question.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyle
Though I believe God exists, I can prove only that there is a 50-50 possibility of his existence. But that's not bad, right? Here goes my rationale:
If there is God, he must be an infinitely more powerful and intelligent being, naturally, and so he can let this world run as it is running now without us, his created beings, being aware of his existence. I mean the possibility is there, right? It's just we don't know for sure.
I think those people who try to loudly proclaim that there is no God are actually complaining to Him like a little child complaining to his absentee father, 'if You exist, why is this world so and so, and why is my life such a mess,' and so deep inside his heart, God exists. A true atheist I think doesn't even think about God much, but just answers plain 'no' if he is asked of His existence and that's just it for him. If there is no God, why was this universal instinct of his existence put into our hearts - almost all cultures prove this fact. It's just that our limited mind cannot totally grasp what He really is and we just try to mold Him into whatever form our little mind can imagine. But the problem is, that is not necessarily, and probably not, true. He's too complex for our understanding. Think about it.
(I have drawn a whole concept of God - sort of a theory - but it's a very long story so I can't go into that, at least for now.)
I believe in GOD and when i say that i mean Jesus Christ. i dont question wether he exists or not i just kno he does. :)
scientific things don't just occur naturally. If anything, things get more random. It's the law of entropy. Thus, the highly ordered nature of DNA and life as we know could not have happened without something bigger controlling it. Molecules can't just combine to become more complex. Impossible.
Plus, all the ghost sightings by otherwise very normal people suggest that there is some kind of dimension that we cannot comprehend. so if THAT exists, why not a supreme being?
So yes I do believe in God. But I must admit that sometimes I wonder whether we've gotten ourselves into such a mess that he's up there saying, you're on your own. Fix it.
Keaton once said "I don't beleive in god, but I'm afraid of him", well I beleive in god... and the only thing that scares me is Keyser Soze! :-\
When you look at the mythology that man has used to tell of our being and our creation then you realize that some similar thing, some greatness, some entity dwells within all of us. When you understand that Buddah and Jesus are the same, when you understand that African Native religions, Christianity, Islam, and Native American creation stories are similar without all of them ever getting together and collaberating on a story then you kind of get the feeling there is something larger than us working behind the scenes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Youngblood
"Eternity isn't some later time. Eternity isn't a long time. Eternity has nothing to do with time. Eternity is that dimension of here and now which thinking and time cuts out. This is it. And if you don't get it here, you won't get it anywhere. And the experience of eternity right here and now is the function of life. There's a wonderful formula that the Buddhists have for the Bodhisattva, the one whose being (sattva) is illumination (bodhi), who realizes his identity with eternity and at the same time his participation in time. And the attitude is not to withdraw from the world when you realize how horrible it is, but to realize that this horror is simply the foreground of a wonder and to come back and participate in it. "All life is sorrowful" is the first Buddhist saying, and it is. It wouldn't be life if there were not temporality involved which is sorrow. Loss, loss, loss." - Joseph Campbell
And when confronted about the pessimism of this though Campbell replies
"Well, you have to say yes to it, you have to say it's great this way. It's the way God intended it"
Campbell also said "People say that what we're all seeking is a meaning for life. I don't think that's what we're really seeking. I think what we're seeking is an experience of being alive, so that our life experiences on the purely physical plane will have resonance within our own innermost being and reality, so that we actually feel the rapture of being alive. That's what it's all finally about. "
Fucking hippie. :lickish:Quote:
Originally Posted by LyleWhen you look at the mythology that man has used to tell of our being and our creation then you realize that some similar thing, some greatness, some entity dwells within all of us. When you understand that Buddah and Jesus are the same, when you understand that African Native religions, Christianity, Islam, and Native American creation stories are similar without all of them ever getting together and collaberating on a story then you kind of get the feeling there is something larger than us working behind the scenes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Youngblood
"Eternity isn't some later time. Eternity isn't a long time. Eternity has nothing to do with time. Eternity is that dimension of here and now which thinking and time cuts out. This is it. And if you don't get it here, you won't get it anywhere. And the experience of eternity right here and now is the function of life. There's a wonderful formula that the Buddhists have for the Bodhisattva, the one whose being (sattva) is illumination (bodhi), who realizes his identity with eternity and at the same time his participation in time. And the attitude is not to withdraw from the world when you realize how horrible it is, but to realize that this horror is simply the foreground of a wonder and to come back and participate in it. "All life is sorrowful" is the first Buddhist saying, and it is. It wouldn't be life if there were not temporality involved which is sorrow. Loss, loss, loss." - Joseph Campbell
And when confronted about the pessimism of this though Campbell replies
"Well, you have to say yes to it, you have to say it's great this way. It's the way God intended it"
Campbell also said "People say that what we're all seeking is a meaning for life. I don't think that's what we're really seeking. I think what we're seeking is an experience of being alive, so that our life experiences on the purely physical plane will have resonance within our own innermost being and reality, so that we actually feel the rapture of being alive. That's what it's all finally about. "
To be honest, I quite like what you've written though. Makes some sense to me.
Haha you need to watch The Power of Myth with Bill Moyers interviewing Joseph Campbell....after hearing him speak everything seems a lot more clear.
Amazon.com: Joseph Campbell and the Power of Myth: Joseph Campbell (III), Bill Moyers: Movies & TV
You'll be blown away at how much insight Campbell had, my friend introduced Joseph Campbell to me and I am still awestruck at his way of thinking, it makes so much sense.
What you posted made plenty of sense. I'll try and check that link out when I have some time. Even though I'm a godless heathen, I'm still very interested in all things spiritual. I guess I'm waiting for someone to convert me or something, but it's yet to happen. I do spend a good deal of time thinking about these things though, my best friend, who is a Christian, lent me an interesting book on Christian apologetics.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyle
The great thing about Campbell is that he ties in ALL theologies and mythologies as one. It's the metaphors that make sacred books so sacred and those are what he talks about and you learn from. He wasn't a Christian or of any ethos imparticular to my knowledge, he was a student of all religions and tied them all together and that is what amazes me. Everything he says makes sense, check it out, ESPECIALLY as a "godless heathen" he'll make you feel comfortable with your own thoughts and feelings as well.
Campbell explained that he may never have a spiritual rapture like the Saints of Christianity but that his purpose was to understand the lessons, values, and morals of other religions. He's not pro or con any religion, the video was made in the 1980's during a time of trouble in Lebanon and he said "It's sad, the Muslims, Christians, and Jews are all fighting over the same set of metaphors just under different names"
I can definitely relate to/agree with that. I'll check out the dvd.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyle
I dont know. It seemed a good idea at the time to start this thread. I was a bit drunk and reading the wikipedia page on God and just had, the not terribly original idea, of starting a thread positing the atheist notion that "god does not exist". I have a hangover today and Im not in the best of conditions at all really.
All I know is that I am not a religious person. Im not a member of any organised church. I dont pray. Sometimes, I use the word "god" when I curse. Im convinced that when I die, all my mental faculties will be lost. Of course, this body I have will rot to nothing but bones and empty eye sockets.
I dont think I believe in god. But at the same time, here I am writing about this concept of god. By reading on the internet I see that there a number of views regarding what god may be. Pantheism is the view that god is the universe and that the universe is god. For me that just makes god an unusual synonym for universe.
All I know is that I dont have any kind of spirituality in my day to day life, but I dont feel any need for it either. I make my decisions on my own perceptions of morality and do not make choices based upon fears of going to either heaven or hell. I dont really know why I exist, so I sometimes make up the rules as I go along. I could kill myself, but thats not really an acceptable solution. Instead I keep on living, and there is no certainty and there are no real absolutes. I dont know enough, and what I do know seems sorely lacking at times. The clocks keep on ticking and I cannot stop them. Perhaps god is time itself, and time waits for nobody.
I think I will have a cup of tea. Tick tock. Tick tock. Pesky hangover.
....a hangover is God's way of telling you that you were wrong ;D
Hahaha!! ;DQuote:
Originally Posted by Lyle
That's it!! I repent!! :(
Why?Quote:
Originally Posted by milesHahaha!! ;DQuote:
Originally Posted by Lyle
That's it!! I repent!! :(
Paul Lynde never did
You confuse me sometimes, TM. Who in gods good name is Paul Lynde?Quote:
Originally Posted by Trainer MonkeyWhy?Quote:
Originally Posted by milesHahaha!! ;DQuote:
Originally Posted by Lyle
That's it!! I repent!! :(
Paul Lynde never did
He was a famous comedian in the 70's and 60'sQuote:
Originally Posted by milesYou confuse me sometimes, TM. Who in gods good name is Paul Lynde?Quote:
Originally Posted by Trainer MonkeyWhy?Quote:
Originally Posted by miles
Paul Lynde never did
Something you can look forward to,noone gets your cultural refrences
Hahaha! ;DQuote:
Originally Posted by Trainer MonkeyHe was a famous comedian in the 70's and 60'sQuote:
Originally Posted by milesYou confuse me sometimes, TM. Who in gods good name is Paul Lynde?Quote:
Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey
Something you can look forward to,noone gets your cultural refrences
Did a wiki search and read up on him. I honestly hadnt heard of him before.
i believe in God, there is just one problem and that's that i believe God to be in my heart. i don't believe in religion per say. i don't follow any single type of religion as i think religion is just like a sales person trying to pitch you a product. its just a product in my opinion. i have God in my heart and that is all i need. i do believe there is a higher power but the only way to really get in touch with God is to look deep inside of yourself. not by following religion as a whole. plus it makes me much happier like this. i don't know if anyone understands what i just posted as its pretty confusing to me as well :D
I tend to agree with your comments regarding organised religion. You know Korea, and its my perception that some of the Christian churches here are a scam. I have an American Christian friend who was shocked at the amount of money the congregation were handing over at one of the gatherings. Apparently its quite lucrative to be a priest here. I dont think thats a good thing at all. "Come on over folks and buy your way into the best possible afterlife! Ya just gotta believe!" ;) . Erm....okay. :-\Quote:
Originally Posted by mike_tha_man
I have the utmost respect for people who have faith or a belief system. Im just such a cynical bugger though. When I begin to question life and what it means I find the questions become more and more and the abyss is such a vast and horrible thing to look into. Perhaps the abyss is really just a mirror, and thats a really disconcerting notion. I am nothing and there is no purpose and each and every one of my actions is completely absurd. Thats such a bleak and hopeless thing to dwell on. Its healthier not to linger there really. Not that I spend all of my time thinking in that way. I do have my moments though.
I do not think God of any discripition exists.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mike_tha_man
me 2, it makes me happy when i go to church i dont feel bad there. plus u meet some nice girls there to:)
Priests making all the dough and the parishioners on the make!! :oQuote:
Originally Posted by kingfrnkQuote:
Originally Posted by mike_tha_man
me 2, it makes me happy when i go to church i dont feel bad there. plus u meet some nice girls there to:)
God is just an excuse for humans to indulge themselves it seems. ;D
Quote:
Originally Posted by milesPriests making all the dough and the parishioners on the make!! :oQuote:
Originally Posted by kingfrnkQuote:
Originally Posted by mike_tha_man
me 2, it makes me happy when i go to church i dont feel bad there. plus u meet some nice girls there to:)
God is just an excuse for humans to indulge themselves it seems. ;D
so u dont believe in GOD?