Berto needs to take the step to the top, and soon.

People maybe don't remember, but MAyweather was 21 when he won his first belt, he already won both the superfeatherweight and lightweight belts by the time he was Berto's age. It seems most of the really hyped prospects (Toney was in his early 20's), Duran, Leonard, Hearns, De La Hoya, Whitaker, M. Taylor, M. Nunn, Benitez, Ali, Robinson, Roy Jones Jr, etc. I think 25 should be the oldest a guy should win his first belt, so I hope Dibella grows some balls and puts Berto in there with only legit competition from here on in(I think Collazo is a good start, but that fight hasn't even been signed yet to the best of my knowledge). Andre Berto is the complete package (power, speed, stamina, defensive ability, toughness, sharp, excellent technique). The only time he has gone down was a flash knockdown from which he recovered immediately, and he didn't see that punch coming, and he was coming forward dominating the fight and got caught with one punch. I don't think he has any chin problems, but we will see.

Wheither or not you believe all you are saying about Berto, you're right, he needs to step up soon. I'd don't thing you will find too many people who disagree with that. Right now it's like he's taking career advice from Carl Froch.

I don't see when Berto's shown this power that some people talk about. When was that? He landed pretty much at will last time out and it took him what, 8 rounds? Did he show it against Rivera? Forbes? Estrada?

He looks to have solid power, enough to gain respect but he's not some one punch guy, he's never shown that against halfway decent competition.

His toughness is still a bit untested, well see that when he faces good competition.

And his defense is nowhere near elite level. He's good enough to win without being a Mayweather/Hopkins/Toney/Wright type defensive fighter but he's not and almost certainly will never be on that level.

He's very talented. There are still a lot of question marks though. It is time for him to step up.

I think Berto is in a tough spot right now, if he would have been up in the scene when the guys were smaller like Judah and Baldomir he would have been able to really have a shot. I'm not sure he could do anything against Margarito or Williams, but who knows, much bigger risk to step up at WW now compared to then.

well he is WBC welter champ and people want that belt so he is gonna have no choice eh!

I agree. I think Berto needs a big fight next.Rather then building that record up. The same goes for our gold medalist in the '04 games Andre Ward. Oh I'm sorry I forgot he fought for the WBO and NABO belts in his last outing. Get real.

Berto is somewhat protected IMO. His biggest fight to date is against Steve Forbes. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt cause he's only had 23 bouts. His next fight will most likely be Collazo who is probably the worst of all the names in the welterweight division. It'll be a while before we see him against the elite welters..

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Originally Posted by OumaFan

I don't see when Berto's shown this power that some people talk about. When was that? He landed pretty much at will last time out and it took him what, 8 rounds? Did he show it against Rivera? Forbes? Estrada?

He looks to have solid power, enough to gain respect but he's not some one punch guy, he's never shown that against halfway decent competition.

His toughness is still a bit untested, well see that when he faces good competition.

And his defense is nowhere near elite level. He's good enough to win without being a Mayweather/Hopkins/Toney/Wright type defensive fighter but he's not and almost certainly will never be on that level.

He's very talented. There are still a lot of question marks though. It is time for him to step up.

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These are all tough guys, Oscar didn't come close to knocking out Forbes either, but IMO Berto had a better showing against Forbes because he was able to land cleaner punches then Oscar was, and he got hit way less by Forbes.

Against Estrada? The guy who went 10 rounds with Cintron and went 12 with Mosley? Berto knocked him out in the 11th. He almost KO'ed Rivera a few times who is another tough guy, and he has ko'ed basically everybody else except two guys earlier in his career, how can you not see his power. Lennox Lewis, and Emanuel Steward have both said he has good power, even though I think Emanuel Steward is underrating his power by saying he doesn't punch as hard as Leonard, I guarantee he does.

Also about his defense Forbes landed 17% of his punches? That's way better then Oscar. When Berto has been actually focusing on not getting hit he doesn't get hit. He has great defense that is almost on the elite level, and will be in the next year. I think he is as hard to hit as James Toney, the only problem is he likes to stand in the pocket a little too much, and everybody including Mayweather can get hit in the pocket. I think compubox was out to lunch when Berto fought Estrada, because Estrada was landing a few times, but not very often at all.

I don't see the point in him if he won't fight the Margarito's, Cotto's, etc's of the sport. He needs to fight them, if he can't beat them he will never be an ATG, I think he should fight Margarito in the next 2 years, I believe he will be ready, he has a great defense when he wants to, he has great speed both of hand, and of foot(when he actually chooses to use it), and he has great stamina.

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Originally Posted by Taeth

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Originally Posted by OumaFan

I don't see when Berto's shown this power that some people talk about. When was that? He landed pretty much at will last time out and it took him what, 8 rounds? Did he show it against Rivera? Forbes? Estrada?

He looks to have solid power, enough to gain respect but he's not some one punch guy, he's never shown that against halfway decent competition.

His toughness is still a bit untested, well see that when he faces good competition.

And his defense is nowhere near elite level. He's good enough to win without being a Mayweather/Hopkins/Toney/Wright type defensive fighter but he's not and almost certainly will never be on that level.

He's very talented. There are still a lot of question marks though. It is time for him to step up.

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These are all tough guys, Oscar didn't come close to knocking out Forbes either, but IMO Berto had a better showing against Forbes because he was able to land cleaner punches then Oscar was, and he got hit way less by Forbes.

Against Estrada? The guy who went 10 rounds with Cintron and went 12 with Mosley? Berto knocked him out in the 11th. He almost KO'ed Rivera a few times who is another tough guy, and he has ko'ed basically everybody else except two guys earlier in his career, how can you not see his power. Lennox Lewis, and Emanuel Steward have both said he has good power, even though I think Emanuel Steward is underrating his power by saying he doesn't punch as hard as Leonard, I guarantee he does.

Also about his defense Forbes landed 17% of his punches? That's way better then Oscar. When Berto has been actually focusing on not getting hit he doesn't get hit. He has great defense that is almost on the elite level, and will be in the next year. I think he is as hard to hit as James Toney, the only problem is he likes to stand in the pocket a little too much, and everybody including Mayweather can get hit in the pocket. I think compubox was out to lunch when Berto fought Estrada, because Estrada was landing a few times, but not very often at all.

I don't see the point in him if he won't fight the Margarito's, Cotto's, etc's of the sport. He needs to fight them, if he can't beat them he will never be an ATG, I think he should fight Margarito in the next 2 years, I believe he will be ready, he has a great defense when he wants to, he has great speed both of hand, and of foot(when he actually chooses to use it), and he has great stamina.

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He has a solid punch. He has not shown big time power, I don't know what there is to argue about that, he just hasn't shown it. Maybe we don't have the same idea on what constitutes big time power.

Forbes is not a great example I'll give you that, I didn't really expect him to stop Forbes but I don't see any one fight where he's looked like that hard of a puncher. He's a flashy puncher, everything looks impressive but at the same time people seem to be able to take his punch for the most part.

And defensively I guess there's really no point in arguing if you think he's on or near the level of Toney defensively, to say I don't agree with that is the understatement of the year.

He's clearly talented, but I think you're overrating his power and defense. Well see what happens when he steps up.

yea i agree berto needs to step it up. but its almost the end of the year so he wont have anymore fights for the remainder. but i feel 2009 he should land some decent fights i wouldnt mind seeing him fight paul williams either. their both big guys williams has the edge in height, but i feel berto might be faster and a little stronger as well. but after collazo he should pull for a Cintron fight and then a Paul fight at the end of the year.

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Originally Posted by OumaFan

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Originally Posted by Taeth

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Originally Posted by OumaFan

I don't see when Berto's shown this power that some people talk about. When was that? He landed pretty much at will last time out and it took him what, 8 rounds? Did he show it against Rivera? Forbes? Estrada?

He looks to have solid power, enough to gain respect but he's not some one punch guy, he's never shown that against halfway decent competition.

His toughness is still a bit untested, well see that when he faces good competition.

And his defense is nowhere near elite level. He's good enough to win without being a Mayweather/Hopkins/Toney/Wright type defensive fighter but he's not and almost certainly will never be on that level.

He's very talented. There are still a lot of question marks though. It is time for him to step up.

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Where did he show power? The fact that he almost knocked out all of his opponents? I agree he isn't a THomas Hearns type puncher, but I see the same power that guys like Miguel Cotto have. Its not quite at Cintron's level, but its still extremely hard punches.
These are all tough guys, Oscar didn't come close to knocking out Forbes either, but IMO Berto had a better showing against Forbes because he was able to land cleaner punches then Oscar was, and he got hit way less by Forbes.

Against Estrada? The guy who went 10 rounds with Cintron and went 12 with Mosley? Berto knocked him out in the 11th. He almost KO'ed Rivera a few times who is another tough guy, and he has ko'ed basically everybody else except two guys earlier in his career, how can you not see his power. Lennox Lewis, and Emanuel Steward have both said he has good power, even though I think Emanuel Steward is underrating his power by saying he doesn't punch as hard as Leonard, I guarantee he does.

Also about his defense Forbes landed 17% of his punches? That's way better then Oscar. When Berto has been actually focusing on not getting hit he doesn't get hit. He has great defense that is almost on the elite level, and will be in the next year. I think he is as hard to hit as James Toney, the only problem is he likes to stand in the pocket a little too much, and everybody including Mayweather can get hit in the pocket. I think compubox was out to lunch when Berto fought Estrada, because Estrada was landing a few times, but not very often at all.

I don't see the point in him if he won't fight the Margarito's, Cotto's, etc's of the sport. He needs to fight them, if he can't beat them he will never be an ATG, I think he should fight Margarito in the next 2 years, I believe he will be ready, he has a great defense when he wants to, he has great speed both of hand, and of foot(when he actually chooses to use it), and he has great stamina.

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He has a solid punch. He has not shown big time power, I don't know what there is to argue about that, he just hasn't shown it. Maybe we don't have the same idea on what constitutes big time power.

Forbes is not a great example I'll give you that, I didn't really expect him to stop Forbes but I don't see any one fight where he's looked like that hard of a puncher. He's a flashy puncher, everything looks impressive but at the same time people seem to be able to take his punch for the most part.

And defensively I guess there's really no point in arguing if you think he's on or near the level of Toney defensively, to say I don't agree with that is the understatement of the year.

He's clearly talented, but I think you're overrating his power and defense. Well see what happens when he steps up.

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He doesn't have Thomas Hearns like power, but its more along the lines of Cotto or p4p Roy Jones Jr. He's stopped 19 out of 23 of his opponents. The only guy who went the distance against him who had been stopped before was Rivera against Judah, but Berto was tight in that fight, and didn't start landing effectively until later on, and he had Rivera hurt several times. Against Miguel Rodriguez, a guy who had never been down before, Berto hurt him several times with individual punches, and then used one punch type power in the 6th with a right uppercut that would have rocked almost anyone. The same punch he used to floor and finish Estrada(who it took Cintron 10 rounds to finish, and Mosley went the distance with him). I don't see how you can't see his power.

Also his defense, what does he do that you don't like? He hardly gets hit, the only times he really gets hit consistently is when he doesn't use his speed effectively, but watch Floyd against Augustus, Against Sanders, against Corley, against a few opponents, Floyd is the best defensive fighter of our generation, but when he went for the knock out against tough guys he got hit a lot more then when he knew he needed to box, the same thing applies to Berto.

Regardless I could still potentially see Margarito or Cotto landing enough on Berto, but in Cotto's case would it be before Berto landed more punches on him?

I think he's ready for A fight with Cotto right now. To me, this is a pick-em fight as Cotto may now be damaged goods. It would be a good fight for Cotto too if he wants to try for a title again. Let's see how Berto stands up to Cotto's punches. Margarito got hit a lot by Cotto, but had a concrete chin. If Cotto hits Berto that much, Berto could be ko'd. But Cotto may not take Berto's shots either. So its an interesting fight. This is a logical matchup for both.

didn't Paul Williams call him out?

I think Paul Williams is maybe the only guy he shouldn't fight in the WW division, I think Berto needs a little more work because he should fight Paul, but definitely he should be fighting all the good smaller WW, and maybe even Margarito by mid 09

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Originally Posted by caleoh12

Berto is somewhat protected IMO. His biggest fight to date is against Steve Forbes. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt cause he's only had 23 bouts. His next fight will most likely be Collazo who is probably the worst of all the names in the welterweight division. It'll be a while before we see him against the elite welters..

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I disagree.. i think you underrate luis collazo here..

I agree Collazo was as fast as Mosley handspeed wise, he just didn't punch enough. I think he is one of the better small welterweights that most people are scared to fight. He's tough, he's very fast, and he knows how to box and mix it up.

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Originally Posted by Taeth

I agree Collazo was as fast as Mosley handspeed wise, he just didn't punch enough. I think he is one of the better small welterweights that most people are scared to fight. He's tough, he's very fast, and he knows how to box and mix it up.

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i put the lack of business in the mosely fight down to the broken right hand.. which left him without his southpaw jab..

But we are not in the business of excuses i still think it is at the least a measuring stick to say he made the twelve rounds single handed and showed some class while he was able handed..

I have great faith that a hatton like performance against berto would win him the title, luis has stayed busy enough by sparring in other fighters training camps when he was having trouble securing fights since then and i cant wait to hear that the berto fight is secure for early next year

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Originally Posted by Taeth

I think Paul Williams is maybe the only guy he shouldn't fight in the WW division, I think Berto needs a little more work because he should fight Paul, but definitely he should be fighting all the good smaller WW, and maybe even Margarito by mid 09

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i think all the elite WW would beat him. maybe i'm hoping so. i agree that he needs a collazo/citron/quintana fight, (debatable how all those would turn out). i have Clottey, Cotto, Margo, and Williams beating him.

Collazo would be a credible and solid win. It's exactly the intermediate step he needs. I have a lot of respect for Collazo. If he beats Collazo clearly, he's ready for the big time.

I think Forbes gave him a good test. Forbes has skill and handspeed and Berto showed much better D against Forbes than I've seen him show. He also overcame some adversity and came on strong late in the fight. I felt like he matured in that fight.

Anything less than a Collazo fight and Berto's team is protecting him.

People seem blind to talent, people were saying Mayweather wouldn't be able to fight Hatton because hatton was bigger and better then anyone Mayweather fought back when he first moved up to 140, and after he fought Gatti. I said no He would beat hatton handily. People said Oscar was too big, and too much better then anybody Mayweather fought, and I said you don't need the best opposition to prove you are a good fighter, it is obvious in how you deal with the guys you have faced.

Berto has dominated the level of opposition that he has had the same way Roy Jones did before he went up to the top level, he's dominated this level of opposition the same way Cotto did(minus getting hurt by Corley type fighter), The same way mayweather did. Except maybe in a more dominating fashion then Cotto or mayweather. He stays sharp in fights, he has all the physical tools, he has all the technical tools, people are being blind to these facts. He's a nice guy who wants to fight, and he's got more potential then anyone in the game except maybe Demetrius Andrade.

Why would people hope Berto will lose against the top WW's? There isn't a more exciting, flashier, or nicer fighter in the division. He doesn't talk shit like Jones and Mayweather, but he has their talent, and he's willing to fight the way people wanted Jones and Mayweather to fight. People complain about the issues they had with Jones and mayweather, but a guy comes along with all their good qualities and none of their bad ones and people still don't seem to like him. So this leads me to believe.
1) People secretly like the arrogant guys(which I openly enjoy to watch, but appreciate Berto's attitude)
or
2) Or people are jealous of these fighters who are so supremely gifted.

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Originally Posted by Tito BHB

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Originally Posted by Taeth

I agree Collazo was as fast as Mosley handspeed wise, he just didn't punch enough. I think he is one of the better small welterweights that most people are scared to fight. He's tough, he's very fast, and he knows how to box and mix it up.

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i put the lack of business in the mosely fight down to the broken right hand.. which left him without his southpaw jab..

But we are not in the business of excuses i still think it is at the least a measuring stick to say he made the twelve rounds single handed and showed some class while he was able handed..

I have great faith that a hatton like performance against berto would win him the title, luis has stayed busy enough by sparring in other fighters training camps when he was having trouble securing fights since then and i cant wait to hear that the berto fight is secure for early next year

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He won't beat Berto, Berto is better than him. I agree his broken hand was key factor in him losing to Mosley, but Berto is way faster than both of them. Collazo could hit Hatton, I don't think he would land anywhere near that much against Berto. I also don't think Collazo has the defensive qualities that Forbes did which means he will be getting hit a lot by Berto. I see Berto winning nearly every round in a semi-competitive fight similar to Berto-Forbes... but closer.