How are blacks treated in the UK?

Since it was the UK who began the slave trade in the 16th century, how were blacks treated after their so called freedom in the 1800's? And did the British go about treating blacks like we did here in the US as late as the 1960's?

pretty much the same as anywhere really , some people get on fine , others are racist , to me colour isnt an issue , if you a jerk doesnt matter what colour you are i would tell you.
Same as if you a good person then also doesnt matter what colour you are. To be honest half the time the MEDIA brings up the Race issue ,to often , when in reality most sane people of any colour really doesnt give a shit.

Not quite sure how you mean treating them like you did in the 1960's...

I'm not 100% sure but I'd say America def had more black people in their country before we did. We may have colonised many countries and instilled black slavery but there weren't any black people here in the UK until the 1950's.

My Granddad never even saw a black person until he was 12 years old.

AFter WW2 we encouraged black people in our former colonies such as Jamaica to come to the UK to work and fill jobs that were left vacant by those killed in the war.

We here in the UK have racism like in all countries. That said, and this is just my opinion, race seems to be a bigger isssue in the states than it does over here and in the rest of Europe.

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Originally Posted by Conrad

Not quite sure how you mean treating them like you did in the 1960's...

I'm not 100% sure but I'd say America def had more black people in their country before we did. We may have colonised many countries and instilled black slavery but there weren't any black people here in the UK until the 1950's.

My Granddad never even saw a black person until he was 12 years old.

AFter WW2 we encouraged black people in our former colonies such as Jamaica to come to the UK to work and fill jobs that were left vacant by those killed in the war.

We here in the UK have racism like in all countries. That said, and this is just my opinion, race seems to be a bigger isssue in the states than it does over here and in the rest of Europe.

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I know exactly what he means,black people couldnt vote in the South until the 60's
I mean they were legally able, but they'd have had to be a freaking idiot to try it.

Just as they are anywhere else. There's hardly any black people here where I live.

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Originally Posted by Conrad

Not quite sure how you mean treating them like you did in the 1960's...

I'm not 100% sure but I'd say America def had more black people in their country before we did. We may have colonised many countries and instilled black slavery but there weren't any black people here in the UK until the 1950's.

My Granddad never even saw a black person until he was 12 years old.

AFter WW2 we encouraged black people in our former colonies such as Jamaica to come to the UK to work and fill jobs that were left vacant by those killed in the war.

We here in the UK have racism like in all countries. That said, and this is just my opinion, race seems to be a bigger isssue in the states than it does over here and in the rest of Europe.

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So the Brits bail out of the UK because they want to be free, but then they go ahead and allow slavery? All of this in the name of what, religion? WOW :o I guess the brits were smart enough not to have any black people in their country though. So Brits are the real racist? Early Americans are in fact Brits and they went ahead and killed most of the Indians :o All of this from so called religious settlers? I guess now things make more sense. http://www.saddoboxing.com/boxingfor...cons/icon8.gif

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Originally Posted by brucelees_vassal

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Originally Posted by Conrad

Not quite sure how you mean treating them like you did in the 1960's...

I'm not 100% sure but I'd say America def had more black people in their country before we did. We may have colonised many countries and instilled black slavery but there weren't any black people here in the UK until the 1950's.

My Granddad never even saw a black person until he was 12 years old.

AFter WW2 we encouraged black people in our former colonies such as Jamaica to come to the UK to work and fill jobs that were left vacant by those killed in the war.

We here in the UK have racism like in all countries. That said, and this is just my opinion, race seems to be a bigger isssue in the states than it does over here and in the rest of Europe.

---

So the Brits bail out of the UK because they want to be free, but then they go ahead and allow slavery? All of this in the name of what, religion? WOW :o I guess the brits were smart enough not to have any black people in their country though. So Brits are the real racist? Early Americans are in fact Brits and they went ahead and killed most of the Indians :o All of this from so called religious settlers? I guess now things make more sense. http://www.saddoboxing.com/boxingfor...cons/icon8.gif

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You ever been to Britain Danny ?

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Originally Posted by leftylee

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Originally Posted by brucelees_vassal

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Originally Posted by Conrad

Not quite sure how you mean treating them like you did in the 1960's...

I'm not 100% sure but I'd say America def had more black people in their country before we did. We may have colonised many countries and instilled black slavery but there weren't any black people here in the UK until the 1950's.

My Granddad never even saw a black person until he was 12 years old.

AFter WW2 we encouraged black people in our former colonies such as Jamaica to come to the UK to work and fill jobs that were left vacant by those killed in the war.

We here in the UK have racism like in all countries. That said, and this is just my opinion, race seems to be a bigger isssue in the states than it does over here and in the rest of Europe.

---

So the Brits bail out of the UK because they want to be free, but then they go ahead and allow slavery? All of this in the name of what, religion? WOW :o I guess the brits were smart enough not to have any black people in their country though. So Brits are the real racist? Early Americans are in fact Brits and they went ahead and killed most of the Indians :o All of this from so called religious settlers? I guess now things make more sense. http://www.saddoboxing.com/boxingfor...cons/icon8.gif

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You ever been to Britain Danny ?

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No :eek: I don't even know much about Britain. I never went to school so I never knew any of this until today :mad: And I thought Brits were cool :mad:

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Originally Posted by brucelees_vassal

So the Brits bail out of the UK because they want to be free, but then they go ahead and allow slavery? All of this in the name of what, religion? WOW :o I guess the brits were smart enough not to have any black people in their country though. So Brits are the real racist? Early Americans are in fact Brits and they went ahead and killed most of the Indians :o All of this from so called religious settlers? I guess now things make more sense. http://www.saddoboxing.com/boxingfor...cons/icon8.gif

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:confused::confused::confused::confused:

Eh? you think that makes sense? ;)

I think you'll find none of it was in the name of religion, just in the name of money. The British Empire discovered new territories, colonised them, taxed them, traded their commodities and generally made as much money from them as they could.

Absolutely no different to what the Spanish was doing in South and Central America or the French in Africa etc...

This all happened 100's of years ago, the way people treated black people then is not how they do now.

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Originally Posted by brucelees_vassal

Since it was the UK who began the slave trade in the 16th century, how were blacks treated after their so called freedom in the 1800's? And did the British go about treating blacks like we did here in the US as late as the 1960's?

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This Brits never started the Atlantic slave trade at all it was the Spanish and Portugese.

We did what all all the major European powers were doing at the time, only as our empire was bigger we did it on a much bigger scale.

But let's not forget it was also the Brits who abolished the slave trade, although Denmark actually abolished it first. But we abolished the trade before Portugal, Spain, America, Brazil and the rest of the colonies.

And slavery wasn't started in the name of religion, but it was stopped in the name of religion, with the Quakers especially being prominent in getting it abolished as an abomination unto God.

Let's give Christianity credit for this at least ;)

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

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Originally Posted by brucelees_vassal

Since it was the UK who began the slave trade in the 16th century, how were blacks treated after their so called freedom in the 1800's? And did the British go about treating blacks like we did here in the US as late as the 1960's?

---

This Brits never started the Atlantic slave trade at all it was the Spanish and Portugese.

We did what all all the major European powers were doing at the time, only as our empire was bigger we did it on a much bigger scale.

But let's not forget it was also the Brits who abolished the slave trade, although Denmark actually abolished it first. But we abolished the trade before Portugal, Spain, America, Brazil and the rest of the colonies.

And slavery wasn't started in the name of religion, but it was stopped in the name of religion, with the Quakers especially being prominent in getting it abolished as an abomination unto God.

Let's give Christianity credit for this at least ;)

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Bilbo i see somewhere before that we actually helped to stop the slave trade ? Danny im no history buff but im pretty certain us British didn't start the slave trade. I see in a film or read it somewhere that we actually helped to stop it.

But what do i know i left school at 16 so i know nothing about history. But as for your other question Danny, black people are treated the same as anyone else here. Of course you get racism ETC, but you get that in every country. But i wouldn't bother coming here Danny, its broken Britian at the moment, and especially where i live in London. Teenagers are getting stabbed to death left, right, center.

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Originally Posted by Conrad

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Originally Posted by brucelees_vassal

So the Brits bail out of the UK because they want to be free, but then they go ahead and allow slavery? All of this in the name of what, religion? WOW :o I guess the brits were smart enough not to have any black people in their country though. So Brits are the real racist? Early Americans are in fact Brits and they went ahead and killed most of the Indians :o All of this from so called religious settlers? I guess now things make more sense. http://www.saddoboxing.com/boxingfor...cons/icon8.gif

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:confused::confused::confused::confused:

Eh? you think that makes sense? ;)

I think you'll find none of it was in the name of religion, just in the name of money. The British Empire discovered new territories, colonised them, taxed them, traded their commodities and generally made as much money from them as they could.

Absolutely no different to what the Spanish was doing in South and Central America or the French in Africa etc...

This all happened 100's of years ago, the way people treated black people then is not how they do now.

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The British here couldn't deal with the Aboriginals regarding the signed agreement terms they had with other colanizing countries: agreements made to stop them just walking in there and blasting them to pieces and taking their land.
The Aboriginals said we cant trade this land for these beads blankets wiskey or anything else its not our land to give away! Its your land and its our land you use it we use it.No problem.
So they British ciefs went home said it isnt happening over there this lot wont talk our terms.

So what they did was they said right they must be animals then; so they classed the Aboriginal people as Flora and fauna so that they wound'nt be held accountable by trade law or any other for eradicating them as they then did.:mad:

Our prime minister Mr Paul Keating took the title of Flora and fauna from their heads and made them equal by law only about 20 years ago.

The Spainish were lucky lucky bastards and very Sly and greedy.
They flew the Knights Templars colors of the red cross on a white background when they sailed into the central Americas.They knew why they were going and what they were getting and how to do it the easiest way.
They just walked on in like an old and trusted friend.The unguarded Mayan Gold was all they were there for.They didnt give a rats for their false religious reasons or any means of future education .
Greedy Sly Evil Religious Colonizing Bastards the whole lot of them.

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Originally Posted by ICB

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

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Originally Posted by brucelees_vassal

Since it was the UK who began the slave trade in the 16th century, how were blacks treated after their so called freedom in the 1800's? And did the British go about treating blacks like we did here in the US as late as the 1960's?

---

This Brits never started the Atlantic slave trade at all it was the Spanish and Portugese.

We did what all all the major European powers were doing at the time, only as our empire was bigger we did it on a much bigger scale.

But let's not forget it was also the Brits who abolished the slave trade, although Denmark actually abolished it first. But we abolished the trade before Portugal, Spain, America, Brazil and the rest of the colonies.

And slavery wasn't started in the name of religion, but it was stopped in the name of religion, with the Quakers especially being prominent in getting it abolished as an abomination unto God.

Let's give Christianity credit for this at least ;)

---

Bilbo i see somewhere before that we actually helped to stop the slave trade ? Danny im no history buff but im pretty certain us British didn't start the slave trade. I see in a film or read it somewhere that we actually helped to stop it.

But what do i know i left school at 16 so i know nothing about history. But as for your other question Danny, black people are treated the same as anyone else here. Of course you get racism ETC, but you get that in every country. But i wouldn't bother coming here Danny, its broken Britian at the moment, and especially where i live in London. Teenagers are getting stabbed to death left, right, center.

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I hope you don't live in Brixton. That's an absoloute shithole of a place.

everyone gets treated the same in the uk

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Originally Posted by Danny_G

Since it was the UK who began the slave trade in the 16th century, how were blacks treated after their so called freedom in the 1800's? And did the British go about treating blacks like we did here in the US as late as the 1960's?

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WOW... you seriously need a history lesson. First off, I'm assuming you're referring to the Transatlantic slave trade, which was started around 1452 by the PORTUGUESE AND THE SPANISH.

[ History of slavery - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ]

Slavery is as old as war, prostitution, and religion, and there is no group of people that's not guilty of it.

Truth be told, the American slaves were the best treated in history- doesn't make it right, but it speaks to your statement about the treatment of blacks.

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Originally Posted by hfahrenheit

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Originally Posted by Danny_G

Since it was the UK who began the slave trade in the 16th century, how were blacks treated after their so called freedom in the 1800's? And did the British go about treating blacks like we did here in the US as late as the 1960's?

---

WOW... you seriously need a history lesson. First off, I'm assuming you're referring to the Transatlantic slave trade, which was started around 1452 by the PORTUGUESE AND THE SPANISH.

[ History of slavery - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ]

Slavery is as old as war, prostitution, and religion, and there is no group of people that's not guilty of it.

Truth be told, the American slaves were the best treated in history- doesn't make it right, but it speaks to your statement about the treatment of blacks.

---

Actually you need one to.
American slaves used to be routinely whipped to the bone, and children would be routinely stolen from their mothers for training purposes or selling purposes.
The shacks they lived in, are all gone mostly, except those that have been preserved, they were built so s-y

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Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey

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Originally Posted by hfahrenheit

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Originally Posted by Danny_G

Since it was the UK who began the slave trade in the 16th century, how were blacks treated after their so called freedom in the 1800's? And did the British go about treating blacks like we did here in the US as late as the 1960's?

---

WOW... you seriously need a history lesson. First off, I'm assuming you're referring to the Transatlantic slave trade, which was started around 1452 by the PORTUGUESE AND THE SPANISH.

[ History of slavery - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ]

Slavery is as old as war, prostitution, and religion, and there is no group of people that's not guilty of it.

Truth be told, the American slaves were the best treated in history- doesn't make it right, but it speaks to your statement about the treatment of blacks.

---

Actually you need one to.
American slaves used to be routinely whipped to the bone, and children would be routinely stolen from their mothers for training purposes or selling purposes.
The shacks they lived in, are all gone mostly, except those that have been preserved, they were built so s-y

---

None of this,

"American slaves used to be routinely whipped to the bone, and children would be routinely stolen from their mothers for training purposes or selling purposes.
The shacks they lived in, are all gone mostly, except those that have been preserved, they were built so s-y"

disproves my point. All that "routine" behavior is completely typical of how human beings treat those that are "enslaved" to them. Because of the time period, their standard of living, (however sh$tty), was still better than those that came before them.

There is no historical data other than that associated with Nazi's, and the Bible (if you accept it as a credible source) that concludes or says that any group of people had it worse than the Jews.

But, you're the one who's going to give me a history lesson, so let's have all of your evidence that disproves anything I just stated.

Also, to the original point of the thread, there's never been a time in history when a conquered people (slaves), were freed because of the conscience of their captors, and then (this part is the exception; the slaves did not lead the revolt as in previous slave wars), the captors go to war with each other over their emancipation and consequently over 618,000 die. So I give kudos to the people of that century for having the presence of mind to end a brutal human practice, but I also fault the modern day blacks who whine and complain about mistreatment and all the while are squandering the greatest opportunity in history--we have a black president after all. Just think, without slavery, they'd still be on the wonderful continent of Africa. As truly glorious as I'm sure some places in Africa are, I don't see any mass movement of blacks back to Africa. They live in the greatest country in history and are afforded the greatest opportunity history- they should be thankful everyday for the sacrifices that put them here, just like everybody else who lives here.

Britain got rid of a bunch of nuts who thought they were god's chosen people who went to America and unfortunately instilled a distilled WASPy character into early America that continues to this day. Good for business but unpleasant for anybody on the end of it. The Dutch did the same thing 150 years ago, giving a bunch of fuckers that thought they were god's chosen ones a free one-way cruise to the other end of the world. It didn't work out too well for the indigenous peoples of South Africa but it made Holland the country it is today.

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Originally Posted by hfahrenheit

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Originally Posted by Danny_G

Since it was the UK who began the slave trade in the 16th century, how were blacks treated after their so called freedom in the 1800's? And did the British go about treating blacks like we did here in the US as late as the 1960's?

---

WOW... you seriously need a history lesson. First off, I'm assuming you're referring to the Transatlantic slave trade, which was started around 1452 by the PORTUGUESE AND THE SPANISH.

[ History of slavery - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ]

Slavery is as old as war, prostitution, and religion, and there is no group of people that's not guilty of it.

Truth be told, the American slaves were the best treated in history- doesn't make it right, but it speaks to your statement about the treatment of blacks.

---

They were legally allowed to kill, mutilate, and mercilessly beat slaves, they also permanently separated families as punishment (being "sold down the river"), work them to death etc. They were traded as commodities and treated worse than animals. etc, etc etc.

Best treated in history :rolleyes:. There is no "beat treated" regarding slavery, though I suppose a case could be made that some Native groups treated their slaves with a good deal of kindness.

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Originally Posted by hfahrenheit

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Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey

Quote:

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Originally Posted by hfahrenheit

WOW... you seriously need a history lesson. First off, I'm assuming you're referring to the Transatlantic slave trade, which was started around 1452 by the PORTUGUESE AND THE SPANISH.

[ History of slavery - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ]

Slavery is as old as war, prostitution, and religion, and there is no group of people that's not guilty of it.

Truth be told, the American slaves were the best treated in history- doesn't make it right, but it speaks to your statement about the treatment of blacks.

---

Actually you need one to.
American slaves used to be routinely whipped to the bone, and children would be routinely stolen from their mothers for training purposes or selling purposes.
The shacks they lived in, are all gone mostly, except those that have been preserved, they were built so s-y

---

None of this,

"American slaves used to be routinely whipped to the bone, and children would be routinely stolen from their mothers for training purposes or selling purposes.
The shacks they lived in, are all gone mostly, except those that have been preserved, they were built so s-y"

disproves my point. All that "routine" behavior is completely typical of how human beings treat those that are "enslaved" to them. Because of the time period, their standard of living, (however sh$tty), was still better than those that came before them.

There is no historical data other than that associated with Nazi's, and the Bible (if you accept it as a credible source) that concludes or says that any group of people had it worse than the Jews.

But, you're the one who's going to give me a history lesson, so let's have all of your evidence that disproves anything I just stated.

Also, to the original point of the thread, there's never been a time in history when a conquered people (slaves), were freed because of the conscience of their captors, and then (this part is the exception; the slaves did not lead the revolt as in previous slave wars), the captors go to war with each other over their emancipation and consequently over 618,000 die. So I give kudos to the people of that century for having the presence of mind to end a brutal human practice, but I also fault the modern day blacks who whine and complain about mistreatment and all the while are squandering the greatest opportunity in history--we have a black president after all. Just think, without slavery, they'd still be on the wonderful continent of Africa. As truly glorious as I'm sure some places in Africa are, I don't see any mass movement of blacks back to Africa. They live in the greatest country in history and are afforded the greatest opportunity history- they should be thankful everyday for the sacrifices that put them here, just like everybody else who lives here.

---

Come now,youve seen a white couple cross the street when they see a black man, youve had a white friend tell this harrowing tale of how he ended up in a black neighborhood by accident.
Now considering the power structure of this country, and considering those very same pre-dispositions. When an African-American applies for a job, what do you think is going to happen?
Ive lived in predominantly African American communities, and even for those years when I heavily used drugs.
Even in their own neighborhood, if it was me and him, I knew I had the job.
We've come a long way,heck I have too, but dont fool yourself that we've come all the way

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Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey

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Originally Posted by hfahrenheit

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey

Actually you need one to.
American slaves used to be routinely whipped to the bone, and children would be routinely stolen from their mothers for training purposes or selling purposes.
The shacks they lived in, are all gone mostly, except those that have been preserved, they were built so s-y

---

None of this,

"American slaves used to be routinely whipped to the bone, and children would be routinely stolen from their mothers for training purposes or selling purposes.
The shacks they lived in, are all gone mostly, except those that have been preserved, they were built so s-y"

disproves my point. All that "routine" behavior is completely typical of how human beings treat those that are "enslaved" to them. Because of the time period, their standard of living, (however sh$tty), was still better than those that came before them.

There is no historical data other than that associated with Nazi's, and the Bible (if you accept it as a credible source) that concludes or says that any group of people had it worse than the Jews.

But, you're the one who's going to give me a history lesson, so let's have all of your evidence that disproves anything I just stated.

Also, to the original point of the thread, there's never been a time in history when a conquered people (slaves), were freed because of the conscience of their captors, and then (this part is the exception; the slaves did not lead the revolt as in previous slave wars), the captors go to war with each other over their emancipation and consequently over 618,000 die. So I give kudos to the people of that century for having the presence of mind to end a brutal human practice, but I also fault the modern day blacks who whine and complain about mistreatment and all the while are squandering the greatest opportunity in history--we have a black president after all. Just think, without slavery, they'd still be on the wonderful continent of Africa. As truly glorious as I'm sure some places in Africa are, I don't see any mass movement of blacks back to Africa. They live in the greatest country in history and are afforded the greatest opportunity history- they should be thankful everyday for the sacrifices that put them here, just like everybody else who lives here.

---

Come now,youve seen a white couple cross the street when they see a black man, youve had a white friend tell this harrowing tale of how he ended up in a black neighborhood by accident.
Now considering the power structure of this country, and considering those very same pre-dispositions. When an African-American applies for a job, what do you think is going to happen?
Ive lived in predominantly African American communities, and even for those years when I heavily used drugs.
Even in their own neighborhood, if it was me and him, I knew I had the job.
We've come a long way,heck I have too, but dont fool yourself that we've come all the way

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I would be very surprised in the uk to see a white couple cross the street just because they saw a black man

unless it was a bad area and or the black man looked dodgy (poor, on drugs hood up scarf wrapped up) the same rule would apply to white man

as for a harrowing tale of ending up in a black neighbour hood I don't think that's racist, there is a large black neighbour hood near me if I was to walk through there at night I could probably give you a harrowing tale, its a fucking shit hole and most of the gangs who hang around there would mug anyone who walked through at night by themselves.

However this is also true of the predominately white estate a few miles down the road I see this as more of a poverty issue and the insular nature of poor neighbourhoods or estates a stranger sticks out a mile and is made to feel nervous

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Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey

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Originally Posted by hfahrenheit

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey

Actually you need one to.
American slaves used to be routinely whipped to the bone, and children would be routinely stolen from their mothers for training purposes or selling purposes.
The shacks they lived in, are all gone mostly, except those that have been preserved, they were built so s-y

---

None of this,

"American slaves used to be routinely whipped to the bone, and children would be routinely stolen from their mothers for training purposes or selling purposes.
The shacks they lived in, are all gone mostly, except those that have been preserved, they were built so s-y"

disproves my point. All that "routine" behavior is completely typical of how human beings treat those that are "enslaved" to them. Because of the time period, their standard of living, (however sh$tty), was still better than those that came before them.

There is no historical data other than that associated with Nazi's, and the Bible (if you accept it as a credible source) that concludes or says that any group of people had it worse than the Jews.

But, you're the one who's going to give me a history lesson, so let's have all of your evidence that disproves anything I just stated.

Also, to the original point of the thread, there's never been a time in history when a conquered people (slaves), were freed because of the conscience of their captors, and then (this part is the exception; the slaves did not lead the revolt as in previous slave wars), the captors go to war with each other over their emancipation and consequently over 618,000 die. So I give kudos to the people of that century for having the presence of mind to end a brutal human practice, but I also fault the modern day blacks who whine and complain about mistreatment and all the while are squandering the greatest opportunity in history--we have a black president after all. Just think, without slavery, they'd still be on the wonderful continent of Africa. As truly glorious as I'm sure some places in Africa are, I don't see any mass movement of blacks back to Africa. They live in the greatest country in history and are afforded the greatest opportunity history- they should be thankful everyday for the sacrifices that put them here, just like everybody else who lives here.

---

Come now,youve seen a white couple cross the street when they see a black man, youve had a white friend tell this harrowing tale of how he ended up in a black neighborhood by accident.
Now considering the power structure of this country, and considering those very same pre-dispositions. When an African-American applies for a job, what do you think is going to happen?
Ive lived in predominantly African American communities, and even for those years when I heavily used drugs.
Even in their own neighborhood, if it was me and him, I knew I had the job.
We've come a long way,heck I have too, but dont fool yourself that we've come all the way

---

my mate is from uganda and moved here when he was 10yrs old, he has gotten all the decent jobs and been promoted without trying, he says its cos he is black. he is in forensics with no qualifications in that field. he says he makes the most of it

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Originally Posted by CFH

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Originally Posted by hfahrenheit

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Originally Posted by Danny_G

Since it was the UK who began the slave trade in the 16th century, how were blacks treated after their so called freedom in the 1800's? And did the British go about treating blacks like we did here in the US as late as the 1960's?

---

WOW... you seriously need a history lesson. First off, I'm assuming you're referring to the Transatlantic slave trade, which was started around 1452 by the PORTUGUESE AND THE SPANISH.

[ History of slavery - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ]

Slavery is as old as war, prostitution, and religion, and there is no group of people that's not guilty of it.

Truth be told, the American slaves were the best treated in history- doesn't make it right, but it speaks to your statement about the treatment of blacks.

---

They were legally allowed to kill, mutilate, and mercilessly beat slaves, they also permanently separated families as punishment (being "sold down the river"), work them to death etc. They were traded as commodities and treated worse than animals. etc, etc etc.

Best treated in history :rolleyes:. There is no "beat treated" regarding slavery, though I suppose a case could be made that some Native groups treated their slaves with a good deal of kindness.

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Yeah, I didn't mean to sound like I assigned any humanity to their treatment, because I don't. But, it doesn't matter what details you bring, i.e. killing, mutilating, etc... it's all been done before (and currently happening in Sudan and Indonesia), and nothing that was done to them was unique. Perhaps "best treated" is the wrong way of putting it, what I really mean to say is that they had the best standard of living of any slaves in history, not because of any good will on part of their captors, but just because of the time period.

To your point about Natives, you're partially correct. Natives primarily would kill the men and take the women and children into their societies- that's actually assimilation. Google Mary Rowlandson.

Even with the Jews, who are the most picked on ethnic group in history, the phrase, "there's nothing new under the sun" applies. Genocide, medical testing, killing of first born children, you name it, it's all happened before to every race of people.

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Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey

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Originally Posted by hfahrenheit

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Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey

Actually you need one to.
American slaves used to be routinely whipped to the bone, and children would be routinely stolen from their mothers for training purposes or selling purposes.
The shacks they lived in, are all gone mostly, except those that have been preserved, they were built so s-y

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None of this,

"American slaves used to be routinely whipped to the bone, and children would be routinely stolen from their mothers for training purposes or selling purposes.
The shacks they lived in, are all gone mostly, except those that have been preserved, they were built so s-y"

disproves my point. All that "routine" behavior is completely typical of how human beings treat those that are "enslaved" to them. Because of the time period, their standard of living, (however sh$tty), was still better than those that came before them.

There is no historical data other than that associated with Nazi's, and the Bible (if you accept it as a credible source) that concludes or says that any group of people had it worse than the Jews.

But, you're the one who's going to give me a history lesson, so let's have all of your evidence that disproves anything I just stated.

Also, to the original point of the thread, there's never been a time in history when a conquered people (slaves), were freed because of the conscience of their captors, and then (this part is the exception; the slaves did not lead the revolt as in previous slave wars), the captors go to war with each other over their emancipation and consequently over 618,000 die. So I give kudos to the people of that century for having the presence of mind to end a brutal human practice, but I also fault the modern day blacks who whine and complain about mistreatment and all the while are squandering the greatest opportunity in history--we have a black president after all. Just think, without slavery, they'd still be on the wonderful continent of Africa. As truly glorious as I'm sure some places in Africa are, I don't see any mass movement of blacks back to Africa. They live in the greatest country in history and are afforded the greatest opportunity history- they should be thankful everyday for the sacrifices that put them here, just like everybody else who lives here.

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Come now,youve seen a white couple cross the street when they see a black man, youve had a white friend tell this harrowing tale of how he ended up in a black neighborhood by accident.
Now considering the power structure of this country, and considering those very same pre-dispositions. When an African-American applies for a job, what do you think is going to happen?
Ive lived in predominantly African American communities, and even for those years when I heavily used drugs.
Even in their own neighborhood, if it was me and him, I knew I had the job.
We've come a long way,heck I have too, but dont fool yourself that we've come all the way

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Look bro, I'm a white kid from the ghetto too, and I appreciate your candidness about addiction- seriously, congrats on being clean. That's a helluva hard thing for some people to over come and I'm glad you made it out.

Human beings will never cease to be "racist". Never, ever. It's completely primal. It's an ingrained trait to all humans to treat others differently from those you identify with. I'm kind of getting out of my league here, but in layman's terms, it stems from the moment you develop your sense of "you"; when you become aware that you are separate from your parents. In human behavior, we all have different ways of treating people: we treat ourselves differently than we treat our immediate family, then our friends differently than that, and then we have a unique way we deal with strangers. In an extremely generalized, summarized way of putting it, this is where "racism" comes from, in our treatment/reaction to strangers. Inherently, we take everything we know about someone's appearance/behavior and do a threat assessment. Pure and simple. Black people are 14% of the population (US), but responsible for a solid majority of the violent crime. So crossing the street to avoid a possible threat and avoiding black neighborhoods isn't racism, it's good common sense.

It's nothing specific to black people, it's just the rules of poverty. You would expect the same in Manchester or in parts of Ireland, Hong Kong, whatever.

So, my point is that racism will never go away, but despite the power structure and any predispositions, in America, there's plenty of opportunity for those who want it. Anybody who wants a job can get one, otherwise there wouldn't be 12 million illegal Mexicans here working. Oh sure, it may not be the job you want, but it's a job. There's a reason that on average Mexicans become middle class within 5 years of moving here, and that systemic poverty is a problem among blacks. ONLY BLACKS. Not Mexicans, Asians, Arabs, Whites, or any other ethnic group. Are the "controlling whites authorities" only suppressing black people?

Lookit man, I'm a middle class white guy living in the American South not 30 miles from a famous old plantation (Marlsgate), and my last 4 bosses were black people from the South- 3 men, 1 woman. Now these were educated professionals working in technical fields (Information Technology, Comunications Security, and Logistics Management) and making around 100k. They didn't need any sympathy from anybody- their words not mine: "Nobody's making you sell drugs or get pregnant in high school, and nobody's forcing you to make bad grades in high school." It only takes a "C" average and an 18 or better ACT score to get into a state college, and if you're black and poor, it's not only free, but you MAKE MONEY off the grants. YOU'RE PAID TO GO TO COLLEGE. And if you happen to make good grades at that state school, (usually a 3.8 or better), you can get into a damn good private college at an affordble rate if not for free.

Doesn't matter who you are, if you want it bad enough, you get can it. Some people have to work harder than others, it's a fact of life. But in America, it's not a problem of opportunity.

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Originally Posted by hfahrenheit

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Originally Posted by CFH

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Originally Posted by hfahrenheit

WOW... you seriously need a history lesson. First off, I'm assuming you're referring to the Transatlantic slave trade, which was started around 1452 by the PORTUGUESE AND THE SPANISH.

[ History of slavery - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ]

Slavery is as old as war, prostitution, and religion, and there is no group of people that's not guilty of it.

Truth be told, the American slaves were the best treated in history- doesn't make it right, but it speaks to your statement about the treatment of blacks.

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They were legally allowed to kill, mutilate, and mercilessly beat slaves, they also permanently separated families as punishment (being "sold down the river"), work them to death etc. They were traded as commodities and treated worse than animals. etc, etc etc.

Best treated in history :rolleyes:. There is no "beat treated" regarding slavery, though I suppose a case could be made that some Native groups treated their slaves with a good deal of kindness.

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Yeah, I didn't mean to sound like I assigned any humanity to their treatment, because I don't. But, it doesn't matter what details you bring, i.e. killing, mutilating, etc... it's all been done before (and currently happening in Sudan and Indonesia), and nothing that was done to them was unique. Perhaps "best treated" is the wrong way of putting it, what I really mean to say is that they had the best standard of living of any slaves in history, not because of any good will on part of their captors, but just because of the time period.

To your point about Natives, you're partially correct. Natives primarily would kill the men and take the women and children into their societies- that's actually assimilation. Google Mary Rowlandson.

Even with the Jews, who are the most picked on ethnic group in history, the phrase, "there's nothing new under the sun" applies. Genocide, medical testing, killing of first born children, you name it, it's all happened before to every race of people.

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There was no universal treatment of slaves by "Natives", there are many different entities with their own customs etc. I'd like to read that book by Rowlandson, but I view most things written by whites about Natives with intense skepticism.

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Originally Posted by CFH

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Originally Posted by hfahrenheit

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Originally Posted by CFH

They were legally allowed to kill, mutilate, and mercilessly beat slaves, they also permanently separated families as punishment (being "sold down the river"), work them to death etc. They were traded as commodities and treated worse than animals. etc, etc etc.

Best treated in history :rolleyes:. There is no "beat treated" regarding slavery, though I suppose a case could be made that some Native groups treated their slaves with a good deal of kindness.

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Yeah, I didn't mean to sound like I assigned any humanity to their treatment, because I don't. But, it doesn't matter what details you bring, i.e. killing, mutilating, etc... it's all been done before (and currently happening in Sudan and Indonesia), and nothing that was done to them was unique. Perhaps "best treated" is the wrong way of putting it, what I really mean to say is that they had the best standard of living of any slaves in history, not because of any good will on part of their captors, but just because of the time period.

To your point about Natives, you're partially correct. Natives primarily would kill the men and take the women and children into their societies- that's actually assimilation. Google Mary Rowlandson.

Even with the Jews, who are the most picked on ethnic group in history, the phrase, "there's nothing new under the sun" applies. Genocide, medical testing, killing of first born children, you name it, it's all happened before to every race of people.

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There was no universal treatment of slaves by "Natives", there are many different entities with their own customs etc. I'd like to read that book by Rowlandson, but I view most things written by whites about Natives with intense skepticism.

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You're right- "There was no universal treatment of slaves by "Natives"", because they didn't keep slaves. They killed the men, and assimilated the women and children into their societies. But even that's not universal; the story of Mary Rowlandson is from the puritan era in Massachusetts area. She was captured by them and made a wife and what's funny is she progressively starts to enjoy it. It's believed that most people in this area and era who joined Native societies (forced or not) actually preferred them to their own white societies. It's sort of a boring read (I had to read it in American Lit I) but some interesting things come out of it.

Reinforcing your point, Aztec's most certainly kept slaves and treated them just as bad as the rest of the humans.

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Originally Posted by hfahrenheit

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Originally Posted by CFH

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Originally Posted by hfahrenheit

Yeah, I didn't mean to sound like I assigned any humanity to their treatment, because I don't. But, it doesn't matter what details you bring, i.e. killing, mutilating, etc... it's all been done before (and currently happening in Sudan and Indonesia), and nothing that was done to them was unique. Perhaps "best treated" is the wrong way of putting it, what I really mean to say is that they had the best standard of living of any slaves in history, not because of any good will on part of their captors, but just because of the time period.

To your point about Natives, you're partially correct. Natives primarily would kill the men and take the women and children into their societies- that's actually assimilation. Google Mary Rowlandson.

Even with the Jews, who are the most picked on ethnic group in history, the phrase, "there's nothing new under the sun" applies. Genocide, medical testing, killing of first born children, you name it, it's all happened before to every race of people.

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There was no universal treatment of slaves by "Natives", there are many different entities with their own customs etc. I'd like to read that book by Rowlandson, but I view most things written by whites about Natives with intense skepticism.

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You're right- "There was no universal treatment of slaves by "Natives"", because they didn't keep slaves. They killed the men, and assimilated the women and children into their societies. But even that's not universal; the story of Mary Rowlandson is from the puritan era in Massachusetts area. She was captured by them and made a wife and what's funny is she progressively starts to enjoy it. It's believed that most people in this area and era who joined Native societies (forced or not) actually preferred them to their own white societies. It's sort of a boring read (I had to read it in American Lit I) but some interesting things come out of it.

Reinforcing your point, Aztec's most certainly kept slaves and treated them just as bad as the rest of the humans.

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By Natives, I was referring to those who lived in what is now America and Canada, I should've been clear about that.

My point was that you can't make a statement regarding all Natives, as they and their societies were as distinct and separate as those dispersed over a comparable area. Saying all Natives killed the men and assimilated their women and children is erroneous. Some groups did, no doubt, but not all.

I know for a fact that Natives on the NW coast kept male slaves. Leaders captured them from one another. The NW coast peoples actually treated their slaves relatively well, here's a quote about it -

"Slaves, who were usually purchased or captured in war, made up a substantial part of the population. Although they had to perform menial tasks, their lives were not greatly different from commoners. However, they were considered chattel and could be sold, given away at potlatches, or killed by a high-ranking chief to demonstrate indifference to his great wealth."

The Haida were specifically noted as fierce warriors and slave raiders, nowhere have I read that they killed the men and only enslaved women and children.

I've read that females were preferred because they posed less of a risk than males, but it was common for males to be enslaved as well.

Some groups in what is now the British Columbia Plateau often captured female slaves though, integrating their children into their societies as you describe.

...I'll get in trouble posting here.....that being said if there are any stories of mistreated black coal miners then Trainer is going to have a stroke :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

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Originally Posted by brucelees_vassal

Since it was the UK who began the slave trade in the 16th century, how were blacks treated after their so called freedom in the 1800's? And did the British go about treating blacks like we did here in the US as late as the 1960's?

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This Brits never started the Atlantic slave trade at all it was the Spanish and Portugese.

We did what all all the major European powers were doing at the time, only as our empire was bigger we did it on a much bigger scale.

But let's not forget it was also the Brits who abolished the slave trade, although Denmark actually abolished it first. But we abolished the trade before Portugal, Spain, America, Brazil and the rest of the colonies.

And slavery wasn't started in the name of religion, but it was stopped in the name of religion, with the Quakers especially being prominent in getting it abolished as an abomination unto God.

Let's give Christianity credit for this at least ;)

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But that was after Christianity was used for a few hundred years as a means of justifying slavery.

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Originally Posted by hfahrenheit

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Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey

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Originally Posted by hfahrenheit

WOW... you seriously need a history lesson. First off, I'm assuming you're referring to the Transatlantic slave trade, which was started around 1452 by the PORTUGUESE AND THE SPANISH.

[ History of slavery - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ]

Slavery is as old as war, prostitution, and religion, and there is no group of people that's not guilty of it.

Truth be told, the American slaves were the best treated in history- doesn't make it right, but it speaks to your statement about the treatment of blacks.

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Actually you need one to.
American slaves used to be routinely whipped to the bone, and children would be routinely stolen from their mothers for training purposes or selling purposes.
The shacks they lived in, are all gone mostly, except those that have been preserved, they were built so s-y

---

None of this,

"American slaves used to be routinely whipped to the bone, and children would be routinely stolen from their mothers for training purposes or selling purposes.
The shacks they lived in, are all gone mostly, except those that have been preserved, they were built so s-y"

disproves my point. All that "routine" behavior is completely typical of how human beings treat those that are "enslaved" to them. Because of the time period, their standard of living, (however sh$tty), was still better than those that came before them.

There is no historical data other than that associated with Nazi's, and the Bible (if you accept it as a credible source) that concludes or says that any group of people had it worse than the Jews.

But, you're the one who's going to give me a history lesson, so let's have all of your evidence that disproves anything I just stated.

Also, to the original point of the thread, there's never been a time in history when a conquered people (slaves), were freed because of the conscience of their captors, and then (this part is the exception; the slaves did not lead the revolt as in previous slave wars), the captors go to war with each other over their emancipation and consequently over 618,000 die. So I give kudos to the people of that century for having the presence of mind to end a brutal human practice, but I also fault the modern day blacks who whine and complain about mistreatment and all the while are squandering the greatest opportunity in history--we have a black president after all. Just think, without slavery, they'd still be on the wonderful continent of Africa. As truly glorious as I'm sure some places in Africa are, I don't see any mass movement of blacks back to Africa. They live in the greatest country in history and are afforded the greatest opportunity history- they should be thankful everyday for the sacrifices that put them here, just like everybody else who lives here.

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Actually Sierra Leone and Liberia were founded by freed slaves

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Originally Posted by Danny_G

Truth be told, the American slaves were the best treated in history- doesn't make it right, but it speaks to your statement about the treatment of blacks.

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This is a very shitty thing to say. That's like saying the woman who was raped and kissed on the cheek was treated better than the woman who was raped and dumped in an alley. I don't think either would equate anything about the whole experience as being treated "better".

Ask any one of those slaves who were dumped in the Atlantic ocean if they thought they were getting a better shake. Ask the one who was hobbled to keep him from running away. Ask the one who was raped repeatedly by her master or ask the one who was lynched for some minor offense, either real or imaginary. No, the word "better" does not apply.

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Originally Posted by hfahrenheit;630081
[B

Also, to the original point of the thread[/b], there's never been a time in history when a conquered people (slaves), were freed because of the conscience of their captors, and then (this part is the exception; the slaves did not lead the revolt as in previous slave wars), the captors go to war with each other over their emancipation and consequently over 618,000 die. So I give kudos to the people of that century for having the presence of mind to end a brutal human practice, but I also fault the modern day blacks who whine and complain about mistreatment

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I'm sorry to be gruesome here, but some people need to have the blindfold stripped from their eyes...

Emmitt Till 1955 before:

http://wendellspencer.files.wordpres...mmett_till.jpg

And after:

http://vincentyettes.files.wordpress...tillcasket.jpg

Rodney King-1991:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ROn_9302UHg

Malice Green-1992:

http://www.celebritymorgue.com/malic...lice-green.jpg

James Byrd-1998:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/450000...75_byrd150.jpg

Brandon McClelland-2008:

http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/...VJ3KM/610x.jpg

The word "whining" used in this context is just as irresponsible as saying racism in America is "over". The fact we have a black president doesn't change as much as you think. Sure it's not every white person and neither would I imply as such, just like I can't dispute that some black people aren't whiners. But those people are no different than their white counterparts who also grab onto anything to complain about, proclaiming the world is somehow against them. To apply such an unqualified generalization about black people, cemented by the citing of our 44th president's ethnicity is deeply offensive. But I suppose you may sweep me into the pile of those "whiners".

Well buddy I know bad things still happen to ALL kinds of people because of racism. I just want people to realize that racism, bigotry, etc is not strictly confined to the Southeastern United States.

People wrongly think that because of the Civil War and the segregation in the South that racism is only here.....well if people taught history a bit better they would realize segregation was in a number of places outside the South and the Civil War was fought because of the economy and not slavery. Slavery was used as a rallying cry by Lincoln to gain support for the Union and grow the Union forces. Sorry if anyone has been taught otherwise but it's the truth.


There are a ton of racists in the north but noooooobody will admit it

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Originally Posted by Lyle

Well buddy I know bad things still happen to ALL kinds of people because of racism. I just want people to realize that racism, bigotry, etc is not strictly confined to the Southeastern United States.

People wrongly think that because of the Civil War and the segregation in the South that racism is only here.....well if people taught history a bit better they would realize segregation was in a number of places outside the South and the Civil War was fought because of the economy and not slavery. Slavery was used as a rallying cry by Lincoln to gain support for the Union and grow the Union forces. Sorry if anyone has been taught otherwise but it's the truth.


There are a ton of racists in the north but noooooobody will admit it

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I was raised in the north,and Id be the first to admit it
Look no further then the York PA riots

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Originally Posted by Lyle

Well buddy I know bad things still happen to ALL kinds of people because of racism. I just want people to realize that racism, bigotry, etc is not strictly confined to the Southeastern United States.

People wrongly think that because of the Civil War and the segregation in the South that racism is only here.....well if people taught history a bit better they would realize segregation was in a number of places outside the South and the Civil War was fought because of the economy and not slavery. Slavery was used as a rallying cry by Lincoln to gain support for the Union and grow the Union forces. Sorry if anyone has been taught otherwise but it's the truth.


There are a ton of racists in the north but noooooobody will admit it

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Nail on the head, Lyle. The biggest difference between racists in the North and racists in the South is the northern ones do it behind your back.

And the Civil War was about economy but slavery was a BIG tie-in to what made the southern economy run. A lot of northerners thought it was unfair that the South essentially had free labor and they butted heads over new states coming into the union being allowed to adopt slavery as a practice. If anything, Lincoln was indifferent about slavery, he wasn't pro-negro despite textbooks painting him as the Great Emancipator. Many of the advances blacks got was because northerners were busy trying to stick it to the South. If they South had been allowed to secede their economy would have failed and they would have come crawling back to join up. I'm kidding, I have no idea about that one, but I heard it said.

Interesting reading over the three pages.

Religion was used to justify slavery through racist ideas of separate races when in fact it was purely economics that was the reason why it was justified.

Africa as well as some of the other countries like India could have been far more prosperous than they are now (Note I said could), had they not been stripped of their resources and wealth.

I do not believe that we are all inherently racist, I believe if you interact with various groups of people from different backgrounds then your perspective will broaden and more likely to be understanding.

I also believe that an individual is always responsible for their actions and it is they that should be held accountable for them. Some people face more holes in the ground that they have to jump over in their life than others do but it is always their responsibility not to fall in them.

However, I like the poster that said “we have come a long way but we are not all the way yet”.

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Originally Posted by Danny_G

Since it was the UK who began the slave trade in the 16th century, how were blacks treated after their so called freedom in the 1800's? And did the British go about treating blacks like we did here in the US as late as the 1960's?

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Slavery - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Wow, talk about a loaded question. :confused:

So the U.K. started the slave trade? Somebody better tell The Bible historians, the Egyptians, and the Romans that they didn't actually have slaves.

When I was in highschool, there wasn't a lot of overt prejudice against blacks, but East Endians (Ragheads, Turban Twisters, etc) did take a lot of crap. Some of us were real bastards. It was to my everlasting regret that I participated in some of that stuff. :(

I gotta say I never felt like I was being treated differently because I was black in Canada. Granted, I've only been to Windsor, but every time I've ever been there has been a good experience. The people are always extremely helpful when necessary and friendly to a fault. If my wife and I ever leave Michigan--whoa, sidenote; Roberto Duran is FAT--Canada is on the shortlist of places we might relocate to.

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Originally Posted by Killface

I gotta say I never felt like I was being treated differently because I was black in Canada. Granted, I've only been to Windsor, but every time I've ever been there has been a good experience. The people are always extremely helpful when necessary and friendly to a fault. If my wife and I ever leave Michigan--whoa, sidenote; Roberto Duran is FAT--Canada is on the shortlist of places we might relocate to.

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We're much more likely to dislike you for being American than for being black.