Joe Calzaghe is obviously a great fighter...

His speed is a lot better then I gave him credit for, I think its because he is always punching you see it a lot, but Roy and Floyd and those guys are not doing anything then they explode and they are a lot quicker.

I am not going to take anything away from Joe in criticizing him, he won the fight.

But, Roy WTF. He didn't cover up quite as much as I thought he would, but he wasn't Roy JOnes. If anybody even Joe Calzaghe tried half that shit against prime Roy they would be eating 8 counter punches before they realized what happened. I think both of them have sacrificed power for more speed, and in Calzaghe's case to keep his workrate, but Roy was way faster in his prime. I think he showed WHEN he punched that he could hit Joe, but only when he was changing it up, I don't know why he waited till the 12th round to go to the body, it was open all night.

The sense I got from this is that they both couldn't react like they once did, I think both of their speediness threw eachother off a little, the one difference IMO is that Joe is more of a man, I love Jones he IS still my favorite fighter, but he dominated too easily for too long. He didn't go through the tough times guys like Calzaghe, Mayweather, and Hopkins did. He never had to dig deep, and I think that hurt him in a fight like this. He showed courage to keep fighting with that cut, but IMO he didn't get hit cleanly by that many serious punches in this fight. I knew he wouldn't counter off the ropes which he didn't. He would win the first minute then Joe would get him on the ropes, and Jones wouldn't respond at all. Prime Jones was a master at countering off the ropes, and with hard shots that came in flurries. Where Roy responded in any point in this fight with one punch he used to respond with combinations, where Roy couldn't get off, he used to counter with dazzling speed and confidence. That confidence was gone, that great speed was gone, that concusive power was gone, that greatness was largely gone. Side note: Why didn't Roy jump on Joe in the first round? WTF he actually had Joe badly hurt.

Once again Joe shined tonight, I thought Hopkins beat him, I think Roy in his prime still picks Joe apart, I think it might be a little closer than I orginally thought, but Roy lost way more then Calzaghe has in comparing them now to their prime.

Still good job Joe, you made me a fan with the Lacy fight, I thought you would beat Kessler, I thought you would murder Bernard with workrate(which I don't think he did), and I knew the fight would most likely turn out this way.

Out of the great 4, Calzaghe, Jones, Hopkins, Toney...... Calzaghe is the best1 on the form he showed to-nite he is the man.

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Originally Posted by Markusdarkus

Out of the great 4, Calzaghe, Jones, Hopkins, Toney...... Calzaghe is the best1 on the form he showed to-nite he is the man.

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Uhh no they all would still beat Joe Calzaghe at there best.

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Originally Posted by ICB

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Originally Posted by Markusdarkus

Out of the great 4, Calzaghe, Jones, Hopkins, Toney...... Calzaghe is the best1 on the form he showed to-nite he is the man.

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Uhh no they all would still beat Joe Calzaghe at there best.

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Dont be silly.

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Originally Posted by Markusdarkus

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Originally Posted by ICB

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Originally Posted by Markusdarkus

Out of the great 4, Calzaghe, Jones, Hopkins, Toney...... Calzaghe is the best1 on the form he showed to-nite he is the man.

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Uhh no they all would still beat Joe Calzaghe at there best.

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Dont be silly.

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No you don't be silly Joe Calzaghe fan boy. Beating a RJJ that is atleast 7 years past his prime doesn't mean Joe Calzaghe, beats all those great fighters at there best moron.

I would have Calzaghe 3rd or 4th simply because his skillset isn't up to par with any of the others as far as primes go.

He was so open it was fairly disgusting that he wasn't exploited for all that stupid shit he was doing. Look at how open he is for a left hook after those straight lefts he throws, I mean it's not right that Roy didn't even seem to concern himself with it and it was there from the VERY BEGINNING. I shouldn't have got caught up in the fight it was clear from the very start that Roy was going to fight the wrong fight as expected plain and simple he's not Roy Jones anymore I seriously don't think that would have gone more then 4 rounds in their primes.

Calzaghe was faster to the punch then I expected him to be too, knew his combos were fast but I think Roy thought he would have more time to counter. Ridiculous though it was a terrible fight.

tonight was sad, joe made jones like lacy. calzaghe proved that he is an all time great fighter and in roy's prime out of three hopkins, toney and calzaghe, joe would have given him the most competitive fight with jones still winning. if this is calzaghe's career then he had one of the best careers. he dominated lacy and kessler both who were favored to beat him, 21 defenses of his title and beat 2 of the best fighters of this era in jones and hopkins.

I can't see Calzaghe with how he throws punches being effective against these guys, I think people forget just how sharp these guys were in their prime. Sure Joe had more power in his prime, but he still threw the same sort of punches and thats where his flaw lies.

In their prime Toney and Hopkins to rattle off a tremendous work rate if they needed to, they would easily throw 600 punches, they would all be sharp, accurate, damaging punches. Joe is fast, but Toney and Hopkins punched straighter. Hell I thought Hopkins when you take into account his reaction time and mental speed was as fast or faster then Calzaghe, He reacted quicker, he got hit less % wise if you are actually looking at real punches. It was Calzaghe who was forced to rever to slapping punches to land anything against Bernard because he couldn't hit B-Hop solidly with anything.

I can't imagine how many right hands he would walk into against James Toney. Watch the fight with him againt Michael Nunn, who was a more orthodox boxer with more speed then Calzaghe, Toney was losing rounds but he was landing that right over and over again. I don't see Calzaghe landing that much, and I see him as being a lot easier to hit then Michael Nunn was. This matchup is horrible for Joe Calzaghe because Toney could punch through anything(except a prime Roy's attack). I was going to make a thread earlier today about people ahve forgotten the greatness of prime James Toney, and what he brought to the table.

I thought it was a great performance from Calzaghe and also I feel Jones did himself proud as well.

I'm not at all convinced that a prime Roy dominates a prime Joe like you guys think.

What you seem to be missing is that when Joe gets hurt he ALWAYS comes back and dominates.

From the worst possible start against one of the greatest fighters ever he just comes straight back and takes over.

His showboating was over the top but it says something about the confidence the man has, I genuinely believe he think's he unbeatable.

He got hit and really hurt from that shot and instead of being rattled or going on the defensive like virtually every other fighter out there he just sticks out his chin in defiance. It was like he said to himself 'Ok he's hit me and hurt me, no more defense bullshit for me, I'm keeping my arms low and my wits about me.

I actually loved his showboating, it's exactly what prime Roy did to all of his opponents, Calzaghe completely took Roy Jones apart, not with punching power against an emaciated Jones like Tarver and Johnson did but by beating him at his own game.

He was faster, flashier, threw more punches, had more confidence and even after being knocked down you could see that he knew he had the beating of Jones.

I would have loved to see a prime Calzaghe against a prime Jones because Jones never faced anyone like Calzaghe. If Jones hit and hurt him he would, like he did tonight, roar back at him like a lion.

Jones was never tested in his prime the way Calzaghe would have tested him.

I'm not saying Calzaghe is better p4p that Jones, he's not, I'm not even saying he would beat him for sure, I'm just saying all of you who think Jones would just beat him down arn't giving him enough credit.

Yeah he leaves his hands low and risks getting hit, but like true greats he recovers instantly and from them on dominates.

Jones was never able to do that, although to be fair when he got hit he was put to sleep, Lennox Lewis was never able to do that.

I don't know any fighter who is more composed under adversity that Calzaghe, he's an all time great, the best British fighter ever, the best European fighter ever, just a great great fighter.

If he was to take Marciano's record nobody could ever convince me he was unworthy.

Even Marciano got knocked down and hurt in fights, and unlike Calzaghe he never came back and dominated those fights as decisively as Joe did.

When he gets hit, he gets going.

Jones and Calzaghe prime for prime, damn what a fight that would have been.

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Originally Posted by ICB

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Originally Posted by Markusdarkus

Out of the great 4, Calzaghe, Jones, Hopkins, Toney...... Calzaghe is the best1 on the form he showed to-nite he is the man.

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Uhh no they all would still beat Joe Calzaghe at there best.

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You need to learn how to hedge your statements ICB.

You can state what you state but it doesnt equate to being truth in any way, shape nor form. I happen to think Calzaghe would be competitive against any version of Toney, Jones or Hopkins.

It doesnt make me right though. ;)

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Originally Posted by miles

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Originally Posted by ICB

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Originally Posted by Markusdarkus

Out of the great 4, Calzaghe, Jones, Hopkins, Toney...... Calzaghe is the best1 on the form he showed to-nite he is the man.

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Uhh no they all would still beat Joe Calzaghe at there best.

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You need to learn how to hedge your statements ICB.

You can state what you state but it doesnt equate to being truth in any way, shape nor form. I happen to think Calzaghe would be competitive against any version of Toney, Jones or Hopkins.

It doesnt make me right though. ;)

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Just my opinion Miles like you have your's i never said im right but IMO, James Toney at his best was too good of a counter puncher. When he bothered to actually train. Wow what a fighter i recently watched him take apart Doug DeWitt i can't see Joe Calzaghe beating that version of James Toney.

A young Bernard Hopkins would of been too physical for Joe Calzaghe, it would be much like the Robin Reid fight except a more convincing win for Bernard Hopkins.

And RJJ would of pot shotted Joe Calzaghe, and countered him effectively off the ropes.

Joe Calzaghe wouldn't be blown away in any of these fights, i think just based on workrate. He would be able to outwork lazy James Toney in quite a few rounds.

And i think Joe Calzaghe could also stand his ground and win quite a few rounds off Bernard Hopkins, plus Joe Calzaghe could also win rounds by outworking RJJ on the ropes.

But i still don't think Joe Calzaghe would win any of these fights.

The best counter puncher in a long long time, James toney in his prime.. would take advantage of every single hole Joe has in his flurries. I dont see Joe winning that fight with his current style.

Hopkins was an aggressor in his Prime. His reflexes were the same, but his output was much heaviar. If Joe wins a QUESTIONABLE SPLIT DECISION against a Hopkins who looked to throw 1 punch and hold... Then it's pretty obvious who the judges would favor had he fought a more explosive and harder working hopkins of yesteryear.

Just my oppinion as far as toney and hopkins go. I also dont see hopkins losing a rematch. Hopkins knows Workrate kills him.. and he'd be looking to hurt joe in a re.

I also didn't see Hopkins change anything in his rematch against Taylor. I think he should have come forwad more, look at the trouble Bika gave Calzaghe in parts of that fight. Calzaghe gets even less power out of his punches going backwards, and he doesn't as many straight punches. Hopkins in his prime wasn't just a cerebral fighter like Roy Jones Jr or James Toney were, He was a physical beast that would rough you up, and still have the technique to outbox you, I think he showed that to perfection against Echol, even when he badly pulled his shoulder he was still totally owned Echols, and that is a much worse injury IMO that even a broken hand because you can still punch effectively with a broken hand, but you can't with a badly hurt shoulder.

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Originally Posted by Taeth

I also didn't see Hopkins change anything in his rematch against Taylor. I think he should have come forwad more, look at the trouble Bika gave Calzaghe in parts of that fight. Calzaghe gets even less power out of his punches going backwards, and he doesn't as many straight punches. Hopkins in his prime wasn't just a cerebral fighter like Roy Jones Jr or James Toney were, He was a physical beast that would rough you up, and still have the technique to outbox you, I think he showed that to perfection against Echol, even when he badly pulled his shoulder he was still totally owned Echols, and that is a much worse injury IMO that even a broken hand because you can still punch effectively with a broken hand, but you can't with a badly hurt shoulder.

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Hopkins thought he won the fight, thats the problem.
Hopkins is very stubborn. He's usually right when he assumes that he wins a round because he landed the cleaner more effective punches but it seems that judges nowdays respect offense and not defense.

Hopkins has learned the hard way. His 2 losses to taylor then a loss to calzaghe. He learned after that third strike that he isn't winning when he thinks he is. Activity is killing him. Hopkins clearly said during training for calzaghe that "He throws alot of punches but how many land? I will land the more effective ". He said it after the fght too. and he said he felt thats why he won the taylor fight.

Hopkins had yet to realize that his theory, although technically right, wasn't working on the judges. He clearly said after the Kelly fight that he knows what the fans want and what he has to do to win now and will be looking to hurt people for now on. It took 3 strikes, but he realises the old plan no longer works. He'd fight a more active fight against Calzaghe IMO in a re.

Who wins? Not sure...but he'd definitely switch it up a bit.

I think it would still be a close fight, I can't ignore the fact Bernard gassed late. The one greatest quality I see in Calzaghe is his toughness. He is fast, but not like prime Roy quick, he had power, but not great power, but it takes a lot of toughness to throw that many punches without worrying about what is incoming. He reminds me of a amateur fighter who is able to fight that way for 12 rounds.

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Originally Posted by Taeth

I think it would still be a close fight, I can't ignore the fact Bernard gassed late. The one greatest quality I see in Calzaghe is his toughness. He is fast, but not like prime Roy quick, he had power, but not great power, but it takes a lot of toughness to throw that many punches without worrying about what is incoming. He reminds me of a amateur fighter who is able to fight that way for 12 rounds.

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Hopkins getting tired can be a big issue, but just a few more punches here and there is enough to persuade the panel imo. Plus, with 3 different judges than before, he could very possibly fight the same fight as before and eek a decision in HIS favor. His style is pretty dependant on what type of judge is at ringside.

The thing with Calzaghe is though he has ALWAYS risen to the challenge and coped with adversity.

It's all very well to state categorically that Hopkins, Jones, Toney etc in their primes would have dominated him or beat him easily based on Joes flaws, but the think that has to be taken into account is that when Joe has had a flaw exposed, i.e dropped against Hopkins, Jones and Mitchell, or rocked by a Kessler uppercut, he's ALWAYS found another level and then pretty much gone on to either dominate the rest of the fight, or else clearly take over.

So whose to say that if Toney kept countering him he wouldn't be able to rise to another level, change his gameplan and a find a way to overcome that obstacle?

That's not me saying he would do that, I'm just saying that we cannot say that he wouldn't.

We have all seen Hopkins, Jones and Toney fall short, we have never seen Calzaghe fall short.

So you can't just write him off as having no chance, becuase it's just not realistic.

I can't see any fighter having an easy time with a prime Calzaghe.

The guy just doesn't know how to lose, and has a warriors instinct. He actually has more of a winning mentality than Jones, Toney and Hopkins imo. When push comes to shove in a fight all three of those guys have lost fights becuase they didn't push and weren't prepared to risk it all.

Hopkins, Jones and Toney at the end of the day have all been in fights where they didn't win because they were not prepared to risk it all.

Hopkins in both fights against Taylor, also against Calzaghe

Jones against Tarver in the third fight

Toney in various fights throughout his career when he's been lackluster and lost uninspired decisions.


Joe however clearly has a mindset where he'd rather get sparked in a fight than not give everything. He's defiant, he's always a 100% relentless come forward fighter. He always finds another level and never settles in a fight, he keeps going to win regardless.

A good analogy I think would be gambling.

Hopkins, Jones, Toney are all to a greater or lesser extent hedgebetters, they bet carefully and they would never stick all their chips on the table and risk losing it all.

Calzaghe is like the guy who goes into a casino and if he's on a losing run will just say 'right I'm sticking everything red next time, my house my car everything.

This kind of mentality he has would I think inevitebaly lead to him lucking out at some time, and getting ko'd but it would also win him fights that in the same situation a Hopkins, Toney or Jones would settle to lose.

That's why he's a great fighter imo. He's prepared to take risks in the ring and really go out on his shield. Most fighters in reality are not prepared to always take it that far.

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

The thing with Calzaghe is though he has ALWAYS risen to the challenge and coped with adversity.

It's all very well to state categorically that Hopkins, Jones, Toney etc in their primes would have dominated him or beat him easily based on Joes flaws, but the think that has to be taken into account is that when Joe has had a flaw exposed, i.e dropped against Hopkins, Jones and Mitchell, or rocked by a Kessler uppercut, he's ALWAYS found another level and then pretty much gone on to either dominate the rest of the fight, or else clearly take over.

So whose to say that if Toney kept countering him he wouldn't be able to rise to another level, change his gameplan and a find a way to overcome that obstacle?

That's not me saying he would do that, I'm just saying that we cannot say that he wouldn't.

We have all seen Hopkins, Jones and Toney fall short, we have never seen Calzaghe fall short.

So you can't just write him off as having no chance, becuase it's just not realistic.

I can't see any fighter having an easy time with a prime Calzaghe.

The guy just doesn't know how to lose, and has a warriors instinct. He actually has more of a winning mentality than Jones, Toney and Hopkins imo. When push comes to shove in a fight all three of those guys have lost fights becuase they didn't push and weren't prepared to risk it all.

Hopkins, Jones and Toney at the end of the day have all been in fights where they didn't win because they were not prepared to risk it all.

Hopkins in both fights against Taylor, also against Calzaghe

Jones against Tarver in the third fight

Toney in various fights throughout his career when he's been lackluster and lost uninspired decisions.


Joe however clearly has a mindset where he'd rather get sparked in a fight than not give everything. He's defiant, he's always a 100% relentless come forward fighter. He always finds another level and never settles in a fight, he keeps going to win regardless.

A good analogy I think would be gambling.

Hopkins, Jones, Toney are all to a greater or lesser extent hedgebetters, they bet carefully and they would never stick all their chips on the table and risk losing it all.

Calzaghe is like the guy who goes into a casino and if he's on a losing run will just say 'right I'm sticking everything red next time, my house my car everything.

This kind of mentality he has would I think inevitebaly lead to him lucking out at some time, and getting ko'd but it would also win him fights that in the same situation a Hopkins, Toney or Jones would settle to lose.

That's why he's a great fighter imo. He's prepared to take risks in the ring and really go out on his shield. Most fighters in reality are not prepared to always take it that far.

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Joe Calzaghe hasn't always been able to adapt. As soon as Robin Reid forced Joe Calzaghe on the backfoot he never adapted and he couldn't avoid the right hand.

I don't care what anyone says i still say Robin Reid beat Joe Calzaghe, the punchstats were almost dead even. Except Robin Reid was landing the much more hurtful shots, he was actually rocking Joe Calzaghe's head back which no other Joe Calzaghe opponent has ever done.

I actually don't think Joe Calzaghe can adapt to rough fighters, thats why he struggled in the Bika, Salem, Reid, fights.

I do agree with your other comments though Joe Calzaghe is a great fighter, and is a very competitive person and he doesn't know the word lose.

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Originally Posted by ICB

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

The thing with Calzaghe is though he has ALWAYS risen to the challenge and coped with adversity.

It's all very well to state categorically that Hopkins, Jones, Toney etc in their primes would have dominated him or beat him easily based on Joes flaws, but the think that has to be taken into account is that when Joe has had a flaw exposed, i.e dropped against Hopkins, Jones and Mitchell, or rocked by a Kessler uppercut, he's ALWAYS found another level and then pretty much gone on to either dominate the rest of the fight, or else clearly take over.

So whose to say that if Toney kept countering him he wouldn't be able to rise to another level, change his gameplan and a find a way to overcome that obstacle?

That's not me saying he would do that, I'm just saying that we cannot say that he wouldn't.

We have all seen Hopkins, Jones and Toney fall short, we have never seen Calzaghe fall short.

So you can't just write him off as having no chance, becuase it's just not realistic.

I can't see any fighter having an easy time with a prime Calzaghe.

The guy just doesn't know how to lose, and has a warriors instinct. He actually has more of a winning mentality than Jones, Toney and Hopkins imo. When push comes to shove in a fight all three of those guys have lost fights becuase they didn't push and weren't prepared to risk it all.

Hopkins, Jones and Toney at the end of the day have all been in fights where they didn't win because they were not prepared to risk it all.

Hopkins in both fights against Taylor, also against Calzaghe

Jones against Tarver in the third fight

Toney in various fights throughout his career when he's been lackluster and lost uninspired decisions.


Joe however clearly has a mindset where he'd rather get sparked in a fight than not give everything. He's defiant, he's always a 100% relentless come forward fighter. He always finds another level and never settles in a fight, he keeps going to win regardless.

A good analogy I think would be gambling.

Hopkins, Jones, Toney are all to a greater or lesser extent hedgebetters, they bet carefully and they would never stick all their chips on the table and risk losing it all.

Calzaghe is like the guy who goes into a casino and if he's on a losing run will just say 'right I'm sticking everything red next time, my house my car everything.

This kind of mentality he has would I think inevitebaly lead to him lucking out at some time, and getting ko'd but it would also win him fights that in the same situation a Hopkins, Toney or Jones would settle to lose.

That's why he's a great fighter imo. He's prepared to take risks in the ring and really go out on his shield. Most fighters in reality are not prepared to always take it that far.

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Joe Calzaghe hasn't always been able to adapt. As soon as Robin Reid forced Joe Calzaghe on the backfoot he never adapted and he couldn't avoid the right hand.

I don't care what anyone says i still say Robin Reid beat Joe Calzaghe, the punchstats were almost dead even. Except Robin Reid was landing the much more hurtful shots, he was actually rocking Joe Calzaghe's head back which no other Joe Calzaghe opponent has ever done.

I actually don't think Joe Calzaghe can adapt to rough fighters, thats why he struggled in the Bika, Salem, Reid, fights.

I do agree with your other comments though Joe Calzaghe is a great fighter, and is a very competitive person and he doesn't know the word lose.

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Also. When hopkins put calzaghe down calzaghe was determined, but his flaws remained the same. I guess what I'm hinting at is. If someone takes advantage of a flaw Joe has, he doesn't go to plan B and stop doing what it is that's geting him beaten. His volume increases but he never corrects his flaws.

I think someone like Toney would have loved that. Toneys best counter punch is that right after all. He loves to throw it after slipping a straight or win there is a hole in someones defense during a flurry. I think Calzaghe would have been tailor made for Toney.


I see him giving Roy a ton of fights though actually.

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Originally Posted by Markusdarkus

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Originally Posted by ICB

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Originally Posted by Markusdarkus

Out of the great 4, Calzaghe, Jones, Hopkins, Toney...... Calzaghe is the best1 on the form he showed to-nite he is the man.

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Uhh no they all would still beat Joe Calzaghe at there best.

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Dont be silly.

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Jones dropped Calzaghe in the 1st and he was hurt a prime Jones would have destroyed him i understand your a Calzaghe fan nothing wrong with that each to there own and that but your getting a little carried away.

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Originally Posted by ICB

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Originally Posted by Markusdarkus

Out of the great 4, Calzaghe, Jones, Hopkins, Toney...... Calzaghe is the best1 on the form he showed to-nite he is the man.

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Uhh no they all would still beat Joe Calzaghe at there best.

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Possibly but we dont know that

If thats the case then we have to ask would Jones have beaten Toney or Hopkins at their best etc . Its very rare that the best fight the best in boxing cuz when 1 guy loses its "oh he was past it "

All we KNOW is that Joe beat the American legends and did it in their back yard

I love how people are saying 'he was so open it was disgusting'

You really think he would have done that if he was worried about what was coming back at him?

He does that to set traps almost. You see Roy doing it aswell....except he obviously looks a little different. Roy did on numerous occassions last night and Joe backed off because he was expecting a right hand from Roy.

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Originally Posted by ono

I love how people are saying 'he was so open it was disgusting'

You really think he would have done that if he was worried about what was coming back at him?

He does that to set traps almost. You see Roy doing it aswell....except he obviously looks a little different. Roy did on numerous occassions last night and Joe backed off because he was expecting a right hand from Roy.

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1. Roy always fights with his hands low.
2. Joe being open virtually everytime he throws a combo are the "openings" im talking about.

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Originally Posted by intoccabile

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Originally Posted by ono

I love how people are saying 'he was so open it was disgusting'

You really think he would have done that if he was worried about what was coming back at him?

He does that to set traps almost. You see Roy doing it aswell....except he obviously looks a little different. Roy did on numerous occassions last night and Joe backed off because he was expecting a right hand from Roy.

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1. Roy always fights with his hands low.
2. Joe being open virtually everytime he throws a combo are the "openings" im talking about.

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Ok my mistake. I guess the sheer volume makes it difficult to comeback with anything sustainable. Maybe the odd counter punch....like Jones did.

I thought you was going on about how he was practically standing right infront of him with his hands low when he wasn't throwing. Like he was goading Jones in.

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Originally Posted by ono

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Originally Posted by intoccabile

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Originally Posted by ono

I love how people are saying 'he was so open it was disgusting'

You really think he would have done that if he was worried about what was coming back at him?

He does that to set traps almost. You see Roy doing it aswell....except he obviously looks a little different. Roy did on numerous occassions last night and Joe backed off because he was expecting a right hand from Roy.

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1. Roy always fights with his hands low.
2. Joe being open virtually everytime he throws a combo are the "openings" im talking about.

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Ok my mistake. I guess the sheer volume makes it difficult to comeback with anything sustainable. Maybe the odd counter punch....like Jones did.

I thought you was going on about how he was practically standing right infront of him with his hands low when he wasn't throwing. Like he was goading Jones in.

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Nah.. alot of fighters do that. realistically though when they do that so close to their opponent (Joe did it at arms length), they should pay. Remember what happened to Nate Campbell? Or when Winky got Rocked by doing it to Mosely?

Jones surely should have taken advantage of those openings that Calzaghe purposely gave him. But the ones I'm referring to are when he's punching. Definitely hard to counter punches of that volume, yes. But it's hard when they hurt. Calzaghe doesn't have crazy power so i can't see why people are reluctant to take advantage.

This is why i said someone like toney would do great. Hopkins is a slip/move/grab kinda guy. Roy is a Block/Grab kind of guy.. and sometimes he doesn't move at all.

Toney has always been a Slip/Roll/Counter kind of guy. Which imo is what handles Joes volume. SOmeone who doesn't slip and move, but slips and rolls. Thats how you counter punch against volume.

But everyone has there weaknesses. Styles make fights.

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Originally Posted by intoccabile

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Originally Posted by ono

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Originally Posted by intoccabile

1. Roy always fights with his hands low.
2. Joe being open virtually everytime he throws a combo are the "openings" im talking about.

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Ok my mistake. I guess the sheer volume makes it difficult to comeback with anything sustainable. Maybe the odd counter punch....like Jones did.

I thought you was going on about how he was practically standing right infront of him with his hands low when he wasn't throwing. Like he was goading Jones in.

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Nah.. alot of fighters do that. realistically though when they do that so close to their opponent (Joe did it at arms length), they should pay. Remember what happened to Nate Campbell? Or when Winky got Rocked by doing it to Mosely?

Jones surely should have taken advantage of those openings that Calzaghe purposely gave him. But the ones I'm referring to are when he's punching. Definitely hard to counter punches of that volume, yes. But it's hard when they hurt. Calzaghe doesn't have crazy power so i can't see why people are reluctant to take advantage.

This is why i said someone like toney would do great. Hopkins is a slip/move/grab kinda guy. Roy is a Block/Grab kind of guy.. and sometimes he doesn't move at all.

Toney has always been a Slip/Roll/Counter kind of guy. Which imo is what handles Joes volume. SOmeone who doesn't slip and move, but slips and rolls. Thats how you counter punch against volume.

But everyone has there weaknesses. Styles make fights.

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Roy can answer that for you.

"Those pitty pat punches he throws were a little harder than I thought." Roy Jones

;)

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Originally Posted by Fenster

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Originally Posted by intoccabile

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Originally Posted by ono

Ok my mistake. I guess the sheer volume makes it difficult to comeback with anything sustainable. Maybe the odd counter punch....like Jones did.

I thought you was going on about how he was practically standing right infront of him with his hands low when he wasn't throwing. Like he was goading Jones in.

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Nah.. alot of fighters do that. realistically though when they do that so close to their opponent (Joe did it at arms length), they should pay. Remember what happened to Nate Campbell? Or when Winky got Rocked by doing it to Mosely?

Jones surely should have taken advantage of those openings that Calzaghe purposely gave him. But the ones I'm referring to are when he's punching. Definitely hard to counter punches of that volume, yes. But it's hard when they hurt. Calzaghe doesn't have crazy power so i can't see why people are reluctant to take advantage.

This is why i said someone like toney would do great. Hopkins is a slip/move/grab kinda guy. Roy is a Block/Grab kind of guy.. and sometimes he doesn't move at all.

Toney has always been a Slip/Roll/Counter kind of guy. Which imo is what handles Joes volume. SOmeone who doesn't slip and move, but slips and rolls. Thats how you counter punch against volume.

But everyone has there weaknesses. Styles make fights.

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Roy can answer that for you.

"Those pitty pat punches he throws were a little harder than I thought." Roy Jones

;)

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Key word. ."crazy" power.
He obviously does damage if he busts peoples face up, lol.
But it's nothing alot of his competition hasn't felt more of before.