A P4P list simply based on who you think are the ten best fighters in the world

Ok, I just replied on the Paul Williams P4P thread and it got me thinking, everybody makes up P4P lists their own way, some go by pure achievements more and some go by simply who they think are the best fighters.

So if you were asked to simply make a P4P top ten just by who you think are the best fighters who you would put on. It could be a guy who maybe doesn't have the achievements, hasn't been able to prove himself yet. Maybe you think Juan Manuel Lopez is one of the ten best fighters in the world, maybe you think Berto is, that's fine, everyone makes mistakes in life.

Of course people's lists will probably include a lot of the guys who are on normal lists who have the accomplishments. Some guys are kind of hanging on by accomplishments though, personally I don't think Winky is one of the ten best fighters in the world anymore, I can deal with Amat and Booze's negative rep. I don't think Hatton is either.

So think about it.

Pac
JMMarquez
Calzaghe
Hopkins
Vasquez
Margarito
Raul Marquez
Cotto
Paul Williams
Kessler/Dawson

I don't really pay much attention to classes lower than feather which is why Calderon wasn't on my list.

Pacquiao
Calzaghe
Marquez
Hopkins
Vasquez
Raul Marquez
Williams
Margarito
Kessler
Cotto

Kessler Dawson is a fight i want to see.

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Originally Posted by hackey

Pacquiao
Calzaghe
Marquez
Hopkins
Vasquez
Raul Marquez
Williams
Margarito
Kessler
Cotto

Kessler Dawson is a fight i want to see.

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wat has kessler done to be on any p4p list??

Personally I think he has an even shot with Hopkins, beats Taylor, Pavlik and Dawson. Just my opinion.

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Originally Posted by kingfrnk

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Originally Posted by hackey

Pacquiao
Calzaghe
Marquez
Hopkins
Vasquez
Raul Marquez
Williams
Margarito
Kessler
Cotto

Kessler Dawson is a fight i want to see.

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wat has kessler done to be on any p4p list??

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Legend has it he can read.

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Originally Posted by kingfrnk

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Originally Posted by hackey

Pacquiao
Calzaghe
Marquez
Hopkins
Vasquez
Raul Marquez
Williams
Margarito
Kessler
Cotto

Kessler Dawson is a fight i want to see.

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wat has kessler done to be on any p4p list??

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I think he needs to fight bigger names but I like the way he fights. Good technical boxer and has good power.

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Originally Posted by C-Lo

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Originally Posted by kingfrnk

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Originally Posted by hackey

Pacquiao
Calzaghe
Marquez
Hopkins
Vasquez
Raul Marquez
Williams
Margarito
Kessler
Cotto

Kessler Dawson is a fight i want to see.

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wat has kessler done to be on any p4p list??

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I think he needs to fight bigger names but I like the way he fights. Good technical boxer and has good power.

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well yea hes a good boxer and all but he just hasnt done enough to be on a p4p list.

Ok based on who I think would win hypothetical critical matchups in their respective divisions my list is as follows.

1. Joe Calzaghe He beats anyone from 160 - 175 imo
2. Manny Pacquiao Great fighter but fights with Marquez, Guzman close to call
3. Juan Guzman If when he gets his big fight, he's going to win it imo.
4. Juan Manuel Marquez Great fighter, I just got a feeling Guzman would beat him
5. Antonio Margarito The welterweight to beat
6. Israel Vazquez The super bantam to beat
7. Ivan Calderon Beats anyone at straweight and junior fly
8. Paul Williams Poses massive problems for any welter or light middle
9. Miguel Cotto Great fighter but he took a beating last time out
10. Chad Dawson Potentially the next great American fighter.

Potential dark horses who I think might burst into the top 10 p4p next year.

Daniel Santos, I think this guy beats all the other champs at 154 and like Guzman will become a major player next year.

Juan Manuel Lopez has the potential to smoke any superbantam

Juan Diaz, will bounce back well in 2009

Shane Mosely If he gets to fight Berto he wins in style and gets to jump back up amongst the world's elite.

Andre Dirrell Tons of talent and he may make his mark next year.

If Hatton convincingly wins at the weekend does he sneak back on to anybody's list?

I agree about Santos Bilbo.

yeh i think hatton should, to be fair he's only lost to the best fighter on the planet...

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Originally Posted by OumaFan

Ok, I just replied on the Paul Williams P4P thread and it got me thinking, everybody makes up P4P lists their own way, some go by pure achievements more and some go by simply who they think are the best fighters.

So if you were asked to simply make a P4P top ten just by who you think are the best fighters who you would put on. It could be a guy who maybe doesn't have the achievements, hasn't been able to prove himself yet. Maybe you think Juan Manuel Lopez is one of the ten best fighters in the world, maybe you think Berto is, that's fine, everyone makes mistakes in life.

Of course people's lists will probably include a lot of the guys who are on normal lists who have the accomplishments. Some guys are kind of hanging on by accomplishments though, personally I don't think Winky is one of the ten best fighters in the world anymore, I can deal with Amat and Booze's negative rep. I don't think Hatton is either.

So think about it.

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I can't really do a P4P top 10 skills wise or ETC, in order but i'll just give you the 10 who make my list.

Ivan Calderon
Rafael Marquez
Juan Manuel Marquez
Chad Dawson
Joe Calzaghe
Bernard Hopkins
Joan Guzman
Nate Campbell
Steve Molitor
Jermain Taylor

Are the ones that come to mind first.

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Originally Posted by hackey

If Hatton convincingly wins at the weekend does he sneak back on to anybody's list?

I agree about Santos Bilbo.

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He's have to win convincingly in order to break my top 10 again.

In No Particular Order


Juanma
Vasquez
Pac
Jmm
Calzaghe
Margarito
Williams
Hopkins
Cotto
Kessler

Only first 5 in order
Pacman
Calzaghe
Hopkins
JMM
Vazquez
Chad Dawson
Cotto
Paul Williams
Wright: Going by his fight against Hopkins, if he is still on that level he deserves to be on here, we will see.
Soon to be
Andre Berto: He is going to kick Mosley's ass if they fight because he hungrier, faster, better boxer, and hits harder. I don't think Mosley will be able to catch him cleanly at all.
Mikkel Kessler: was on it, still probably deserves to be on it, he is fucking amazing.
Juan Guzman: Great fighter, should be up there minus his dibacle, but that keeps him off it for me because if he can't make lightweight, I am not sure how good he will be at 140.
ANtonio Margarito: Good fighter, but I think it was more of Cotto being tailor made for him in many ways. I still think he looked pretty abysmal against Clottey and P. Williams.
Oscar De La Hoya/MOsley: I think Oscar is better at this point, and that they are both one big win off the p4p chart.
Juan Manuel Lopez: should be a really good fighter in the future, I still would like to see him face Vazquez or Marquez or the winner of the Molitor fight before I give my opinion on him.
Pavlik: still beats a lot of guys
Jermain Taylor: dito
Vitali/Wladimir Klitschko: Wlad has been beating a lot of solid opposition lately minus THompson. Vitali is better than him.
Ivan Calderon: great boxer.
Ricky Hatton: making quite the comeback, has the physical tools up the yen yang, but he needs to make the most of them.

... I have a lot of guys knocking on the door.

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Originally Posted by THE THIRD MAN

In No Particular Order


Juanma
Vasquez
Pac
Jmm
Calzaghe
Margarito
Williams
Hopkins
Cotto
Kessler

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I like this list but im not sure Kessler is top ten p4p .

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Originally Posted by Dark Lord Al

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Originally Posted by THE THIRD MAN

In No Particular Order


Juanma
Vasquez
Pac
Jmm
Calzaghe
Margarito
Williams
Hopkins
Cotto
Kessler

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I like this list but im not sure Kessler is top ten p4p .

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Anybody who'd rank Kessler in the top 10 must be a Calzaghe worshipper who is afraid to rank him (Calzaghe) #1 which is why this list is unordered. ;D

OK, now this is based on TALENT. Not hypothetical matchups not wins or anything I'm talking about talent. And this aint in order.

Joan Guzman
Juan Manuel Lopez
Manny Pacquiao
Nonito Donaire
Miguel Cotto
Bernard Hopkins
Joe Calzaghe
Mikkel Kessler
Juan Manuel Marquez

Winky we have to see. Winky isn't far removed from being number 2 P4P in terms of the real deal and talent really. So it'll be good to see him again. Won't make judgements until then.

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Originally Posted by Dark Lord Al

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Originally Posted by THE THIRD MAN

In No Particular Order


Juanma
Vasquez
Pac
Jmm
Calzaghe
Margarito
Williams
Hopkins
Cotto
Kessler

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I like this list but im not sure Kessler is top ten p4p .

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I see your point, i like the big K man though and i just think he is good enough to be a top 10. Kessler needs a big US fight to happen and maybe he will get it in 2009 if Joe Balls doesn't give him a rematch. You have to admit he is a formidable opponent for anyone.

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Originally Posted by CGM

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Originally Posted by Dark Lord Al

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Originally Posted by THE THIRD MAN

In No Particular Order


Juanma
Vasquez
Pac
Jmm
Calzaghe
Margarito
Williams
Hopkins
Cotto
Kessler

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I like this list but im not sure Kessler is top ten p4p .

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Anybody who'd rank Kessler in the top 10 must be a Calzaghe worshipper who is afraid to rank him (Calzaghe) #1 which is why this list is unordered. ;D

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Believe me when i tell you i am no fan of Slapzaghe!

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Originally Posted by THE THIRD MAN

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Originally Posted by CGM

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Originally Posted by Dark Lord Al

I like this list but im not sure Kessler is top ten p4p .

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Anybody who'd rank Kessler in the top 10 must be a Calzaghe worshipper who is afraid to rank him (Calzaghe) #1 which is why this list is unordered. ;D

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Believe me when i tell you i am no fan of Slapzaghe!

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Well, I think you must be an ok guy then. Have some rep for that. :)

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Originally Posted by CGM

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Originally Posted by THE THIRD MAN

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Originally Posted by CGM

Anybody who'd rank Kessler in the top 10 must be a Calzaghe worshipper who is afraid to rank him (Calzaghe) #1 which is why this list is unordered. ;D

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Believe me when i tell you i am no fan of Slapzaghe!

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Well, I think you must be an ok guy then. Have some rep for that. :)

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lol i repped him too before i read your post. "Slapzaghe" is one of the funniest Calzaghe name i heard so far.

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Originally Posted by p4pking

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Originally Posted by kingfrnk

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Originally Posted by hackey

Pacquiao
Calzaghe
Marquez
Hopkins
Vasquez
Raul Marquez
Williams
Margarito
Kessler
Cotto

Kessler Dawson is a fight i want to see.

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wat has kessler done to be on any p4p list??

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Legend has it he can read.

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He can't. He just looks at the pictures.



More to the point, why the hell is Raul Marquez on that list? You mean Rafa?

Haha, I was about to say how do you look at that list that includes Raul Marquez and think what the hell is Kessler doing on there. :confused:

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Originally Posted by CGM

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Originally Posted by THE THIRD MAN

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Originally Posted by CGM

Anybody who'd rank Kessler in the top 10 must be a Calzaghe worshipper who is afraid to rank him (Calzaghe) #1 which is why this list is unordered. ;D

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Believe me when i tell you i am no fan of Slapzaghe!

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Well, I think you must be an ok guy then. Have some rep for that. :)

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As much as i am not a great admirer of the Slap Man he does keep on winning and he deserves his spot in the top 10 PFP list for 2008.

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Originally Posted by OumaFan

Haha, I was about to say how do you look at that list that includes Raul Marquez and think what the hell is Kessler doing on there. :confused:

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Think he ment Rafael... ;D

P4P fighters based on talent...

JMM
Pac
Joe
Hopkins
BCD
Calderon
Guzman
Molitor
Nonito
Hasegawa
Vasquez
Cotto
Kess

Look i think that Vic Darchinyan should be there but not David Haye he has not beaten better fighters the Paul Williams has and never avenged his lose either I can say that Chad Dawson may be ahead of Paul Williams but there competion not that much better it is only the tenth spot so it is very open for anyone tell you the truth.

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Originally Posted by Mr140

Look i think that Vic Darchinyan should be there but not David Haye he has not beaten better fighters the Paul Williams has and never avenged his lose either I can say that Chad Dawson may be ahead of Paul Williams but there competion not that much better it is only the tenth spot so it is very open for anyone tell you the truth.

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Its not even debatable Chad Dawson is certainly higher than Paul Williams easily. Chad Dawson has Tomasz Adamek, Eric Harding, Antonio Tarver, Glen Johnson.

Chad Dawson also made 4 title defenses, then won 2 belts off Antonio Tarver.

Paul Williams has a shot Sharmba Mitchell, Antonio Margarito, 1-1 Carlos Quintana.

Paul Williams won the title off Antonio Margarito but he hasn't even made. 1 successful title defense yet.

So no matter what way you want to look at it opposition, title defenes, ETC. No way on this earth does Paul Williams have a better record than Chad Dawson.

Tell you the truth ice it is just the ring dude and it is the last spot on the list and if Williams wins another title in another weight division he can still make a aurgment for the spot could Dawson be there yea is he no but who cares it while change it is last spot which is kinda up in the air and every one does there lists different so i dont see the nig deal with it ice.

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Originally Posted by CutMeMick

P4P fighters based on talent...

JMM
Pac
Joe
Hopkins
BCD
Calderon
Guzman
Molitor
Nonito
Hasegawa
Vasquez
Cotto
Kess

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I've gotta see more of Molitor, cause everybody seems to think really highly of him and when I've seen him he's seemed like a good fighter but maybe nothing exceptional? Nothing stands out about him to me for some reason.

Good call on Hasegawa.

The only thing that i can think of is that they like that Williams beat guys in there primes Margrito is now in the top 10 none of the fighter Dawson beat were ever in the top ten pound when he beat them or after he beat them and i think both are in the decline dont you think ice. Taver just getting old plane and simple with that guy and Johnson well people thought he won it and say what you want about Johnson he is a good fighter but very up and down i really dont see the big deal with Williams being in the number ten spot it is at the end of the list so who cares.

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Originally Posted by Mr140

The only thing that i can think of is that they like that Williams beat guys in there primes Margrito is now in the top 10 none of the fighter Dawson beat were ever in the top ten pound when he beat them or after he beat them and i think both are in the decline dont you think ice. Taver just getting old plane and simple with that guy and Johnson well people thought he won it and say what you want about Johnson he is a good fighter but very up and down i really dont see the big deal with Williams being in the number ten spot it is at the end of the list so who cares.

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Antonio Tarver was considered to be back at his best, after shutting out Clinton Woods. Glen Johnson has got better with age and is a very dangerous opponent.

The fact is Chad Dawson has beaten more quality fighters than Paul Williams, and has made multiple title defenses.

Tomasz Adamek was considered one of the best Light Heavyweights in the world when Chad Dawson beat him, and many people picked Tomasz Adamek to beat Chad Dawson. Then you have Eric Harding who is a solid fighter and even gave a prime Roy Jones a few problems.

Paul Williams only really has one fighter on his resume. And that one fighter wasn't even top 20 P4P when Paul Williams beat him, what Antonio Margarito has done recently should not give Paul Williams a free pass in the top 10 P4P rankings.

Paul Williams also lost to Carlos Quintana which should effect his ranking, even though he won the rematch he shouldn't of lost to him in the first place. Paul Williams hasn't even made 1 successful title defense yet for crying out loud.

Theres no way he deserves to be in the top 10 for beating one fighter, Antonio Margarito who wasn't even nowhere near the top 10 P4P rankings when Paul Williams beat him.