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Joe Calzaghe VS...................
When fighters are the best at there weight people do this like they did Tyson vs Gene Tunney,Jack Dempsey,Joe Louis ,George Foreman and so on. So im doing Joe Calzaghe vs some good and great fighters around his 2 weights fighting prime vs prime.
Joe Calzaghe vs Roy Jones
Joe Calzaghe vs Nigel Benn
Joe Calzaghe vs Chris Eubank
Joe Calzaghe vs Michael Spinks
Joe Calzaghe vs Bob Foster
Joe Calzaghe vs Bernard Hopkins
Joe Calzaghe vs Jame Toney
Joe Calzaghe vs Archie Moore
Right guys give your opinions please
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Re: Joe Calzaghe VS...................
For a Calzaghe hater you probably have the record for the most threads started about him ;D
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Re: Joe Calzaghe VS...................
When was Joe Calzaghe's prime? I always remember Joe as a big bruising S Middle who could clump, you dont deck Eubank in the opening frame without a dig, but then he appeared to physically get smaller, lose his punching power, then post Lacy (he didnt need to think much against Jeff) he has turned into a thinking fighter who can adapt during a fight work fighters out and get the wins.
Is he now in his prime, has he passed it, getting by on guile, and workrate?
It will be interesting to see Joe again at light heavy, despite the weight troubles S Middle brings I didnt think against Hopkins he was physically very strong but looked stronger against Jones. Maybe its just the opposition that caused that, we shall see.
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Re: Joe Calzaghe VS...................
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dragos Bitch
When fighters are the best at there weight people do this like they did Tyson vs Gene Tunney,Jack Dempsey,Joe Louis ,George Foreman and so on. So im doing Joe Calzaghe vs some good and great fighters around his 2 weights fighting prime vs prime.
Joe Calzaghe vs Roy Jones
Joe Calzaghe vs Nigel Benn
Joe Calzaghe vs Chris Eubank
Joe Calzaghe vs Michael Spinks
Joe Calzaghe vs Bob Foster
Joe Calzaghe vs Bernard Hopkins
Joe Calzaghe vs Jame Toney
Joe Calzaghe vs Archie Moore
Right guys give your opinions please
He probably beats Benn and Eubank , but thats it.
He could beat Hopkins / Toney if they had a bad day.
He doesnt beat Moore - Foster - or Spinks , they all stop him.;D
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Re: Joe Calzaghe VS...................
Joe Calzaghe vs Roy Jones = Roy Jones JR by UD, he would potshot Joe Calzaghe while on the ropes, with his lightning combinations. And he would also move around the ring effectively when he needed to. At Super Middleweight i think he could stop Joe Calzaghe in the later rounds, or win a pretty clear cut UD.
Joe Calzaghe vs Nigel Benn = Joe Calzaghe because he's the better technical boxer, and he has the better chin. But i wouldn't be confident picking Joe Calzaghe, Nigel Benn could really hit. And at his best he was a hard man to get out of there, but i'll go with Joe Calzaghe by UD.
Joe Calzaghe vs Chris Eubank = Chris Eubank hated fighters who pressured him, and Joe Calzaghe would be all over him for 12 rounds like a bad rash. But i do think Chris Eubank at his best would make it much more competitive, than when they met in 1997. But Joe Calzaghe should win a UD if he doesn't get caught with any of Chris Eubank's. Unorthodox power shots, remember Chris Eubank did hurt Joe Calzaghe quite badly, at the end of there fight. And Chris Eubank had such a strong will at his best, but like i said i would pick Joe Calzaghe by UD, based on being bad style match up for Chris Eubank, but it would be a very competitive close fight.
Joe Calzaghe vs Michael Spinks = Joe Calzaghe would do well in this match up, Michael Spinks has struggled against fighters with alot of workrate, but Michael Spinks was like a sniper, and i think he would counter Joe Cazlaghe's combinations. Give him alot of awkward angles move around the ring well and win a close but clear cut decision. And Joe Calzaghe would be knocked down at some point in the fight.
Joe Calzaghe vs Bob Foster = Bob Foster by KO he never lost at Light Heavyweight, he was an animal with unreal power. And he could also box when he wanted to. He would catch up to Joe Calzaghe at some point, and stop him in the 8th round.
Joe Calzaghe vs Bernard Hopkins = Young Bernard Hopkins can equal Joe Calzaghe's workrate, and he could also make it a rough/physical fight. I think Bernard Hopkins wins by UD in a messy fight, but exciting fight at times.
Joe Calzaghe vs James Toney = Joe Calzaghe would win rounds when James Toney, gets lazy and takes rounds off. But overall James Toney is too good of a counter puncher, and he would counter Joe Calzaghe's combinations all night long. Potting shotting him in his shoulder roll stance. James Toney by UD in a competitive fight.
Joe Calzaghe vs Archie Moore = I haven't really seen enough footage of Archie Moore to really comment on him. But from the footage i have seen he liked to use the crab like style defense. He seemed to have alot of power, and was a very smart boxer. But i'd need to see more fights of his to make a better opinion.
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Re: Joe Calzaghe VS...................
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ICB
Joe Calzaghe vs Roy Jones = Roy Jones JR by UD, he would potshot Joe Calzaghe while on the ropes, with his lightning combinations. And he would also move around the ring effectively when he needed to. At Super Middleweight i think he could stop Joe Calzaghe in the later rounds, or win a pretty clear cut UD.
Joe Calzaghe vs Nigel Benn = Joe Calzaghe because he's the better technical boxer, and he has the better chin. But i wouldn't be confident picking Joe Calzaghe, Nigel Benn could really hit. And at his best he was a hard man to get out of there, but i'll go with Joe Calzaghe by UD.
Joe Calzaghe vs Chris Eubank = Chris Eubank hated fighters who pressured him, and Joe Calzaghe would be all over him for 12 rounds like a bad rash. But i do think Chris Eubank at his best would make it much more competitive, than when they met in 1997. But Joe Calzaghe should win a UD if he doesn't get caught with any of Chris Eubank's. Unorthodox power shots, remember Chris Eubank did hurt Joe Calzaghe quite badly, at the end of there fight. And Chris Eubank had such a strong will at his best, but like i said i would pick Joe Calzaghe by UD, based on being bad style match up for Chris Eubank, but it would be a very competitive close fight.
Joe Calzaghe vs Michael Spinks = Joe Calzaghe would do well in this match up, Michael Spinks has struggled against fighters with alot of workrate, but Michael Spinks was like a sniper, and i think he would counter Joe Cazlaghe's combinations. Give him alot of awkward angles move around the ring well and win a close but clear cut decision. And Joe Calzaghe would be knocked down at some point in the fight.
Joe Calzaghe vs Bob Foster = Bob Foster by KO he never lost at Light Heavyweight, he was an animal with unreal power. And he could also box when he wanted to. He would catch up to Joe Calzaghe at some point, and stop him in the 8th round.
Joe Calzaghe vs Bernard Hopkins = Young Bernard Hopkins can equal Joe Calzaghe's workrate, and he could also make it a rough/physical fight. I think Bernard Hopkins wins by UD in a messy fight, but exciting fight at times.
Joe Calzaghe vs James Toney = Joe Calzaghe would win rounds when James Toney, gets lazy and takes rounds off. But overall James Toney is too good of a counter puncher, and he would counter Joe Calzaghe's combinations all night long. Potting shotting him in his shoulder roll stance. James Toney by UD in a competitive fight.
Joe Calzaghe vs Archie Moore = I haven't really seen enough footage of Archie Moore to really comment on him. But from the footage i have seen he liked to use the crab like style defense. He seemed to have alot of power, and was a very smart boxer. But i'd need to see more fights of his to make a better opinion.
Calzaghe would beat all of them at his best.
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Re: Joe Calzaghe VS...................
Quote:
Originally Posted by
miles
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ICB
Joe Calzaghe vs Roy Jones = Roy Jones JR by UD, he would potshot Joe Calzaghe while on the ropes, with his lightning combinations. And he would also move around the ring effectively when he needed to. At Super Middleweight i think he could stop Joe Calzaghe in the later rounds, or win a pretty clear cut UD.
Joe Calzaghe vs Nigel Benn = Joe Calzaghe because he's the better technical boxer, and he has the better chin. But i wouldn't be confident picking Joe Calzaghe, Nigel Benn could really hit. And at his best he was a hard man to get out of there, but i'll go with Joe Calzaghe by UD.
Joe Calzaghe vs Chris Eubank = Chris Eubank hated fighters who pressured him, and Joe Calzaghe would be all over him for 12 rounds like a bad rash. But i do think Chris Eubank at his best would make it much more competitive, than when they met in 1997. But Joe Calzaghe should win a UD if he doesn't get caught with any of Chris Eubank's. Unorthodox power shots, remember Chris Eubank did hurt Joe Calzaghe quite badly, at the end of there fight. And Chris Eubank had such a strong will at his best, but like i said i would pick Joe Calzaghe by UD, based on being bad style match up for Chris Eubank, but it would be a very competitive close fight.
Joe Calzaghe vs Michael Spinks = Joe Calzaghe would do well in this match up, Michael Spinks has struggled against fighters with alot of workrate, but Michael Spinks was like a sniper, and i think he would counter Joe Cazlaghe's combinations. Give him alot of awkward angles move around the ring well and win a close but clear cut decision. And Joe Calzaghe would be knocked down at some point in the fight.
Joe Calzaghe vs Bob Foster = Bob Foster by KO he never lost at Light Heavyweight, he was an animal with unreal power. And he could also box when he wanted to. He would catch up to Joe Calzaghe at some point, and stop him in the 8th round.
Joe Calzaghe vs Bernard Hopkins = Young Bernard Hopkins can equal Joe Calzaghe's workrate, and he could also make it a rough/physical fight. I think Bernard Hopkins wins by UD in a messy fight, but exciting fight at times.
Joe Calzaghe vs James Toney = Joe Calzaghe would win rounds when James Toney, gets lazy and takes rounds off. But overall James Toney is too good of a counter puncher, and he would counter Joe Calzaghe's combinations all night long. Potting shotting him in his shoulder roll stance. James Toney by UD in a competitive fight.
Joe Calzaghe vs Archie Moore = I haven't really seen enough footage of Archie Moore to really comment on him. But from the footage i have seen he liked to use the crab like style defense. He seemed to have alot of power, and was a very smart boxer. But i'd need to see more fights of his to make a better opinion.
Calzaghe would beat all of them at his best.
Everyone's allowed there own opinion i guess :-\
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Re: Joe Calzaghe VS...................
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ICB
Quote:
Originally Posted by
miles
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ICB
Joe Calzaghe vs Roy Jones = Roy Jones JR by UD, he would potshot Joe Calzaghe while on the ropes, with his lightning combinations. And he would also move around the ring effectively when he needed to. At Super Middleweight i think he could stop Joe Calzaghe in the later rounds, or win a pretty clear cut UD.
Joe Calzaghe vs Nigel Benn = Joe Calzaghe because he's the better technical boxer, and he has the better chin. But i wouldn't be confident picking Joe Calzaghe, Nigel Benn could really hit. And at his best he was a hard man to get out of there, but i'll go with Joe Calzaghe by UD.
Joe Calzaghe vs Chris Eubank = Chris Eubank hated fighters who pressured him, and Joe Calzaghe would be all over him for 12 rounds like a bad rash. But i do think Chris Eubank at his best would make it much more competitive, than when they met in 1997. But Joe Calzaghe should win a UD if he doesn't get caught with any of Chris Eubank's. Unorthodox power shots, remember Chris Eubank did hurt Joe Calzaghe quite badly, at the end of there fight. And Chris Eubank had such a strong will at his best, but like i said i would pick Joe Calzaghe by UD, based on being bad style match up for Chris Eubank, but it would be a very competitive close fight.
Joe Calzaghe vs Michael Spinks = Joe Calzaghe would do well in this match up, Michael Spinks has struggled against fighters with alot of workrate, but Michael Spinks was like a sniper, and i think he would counter Joe Cazlaghe's combinations. Give him alot of awkward angles move around the ring well and win a close but clear cut decision. And Joe Calzaghe would be knocked down at some point in the fight.
Joe Calzaghe vs Bob Foster = Bob Foster by KO he never lost at Light Heavyweight, he was an animal with unreal power. And he could also box when he wanted to. He would catch up to Joe Calzaghe at some point, and stop him in the 8th round.
Joe Calzaghe vs Bernard Hopkins = Young Bernard Hopkins can equal Joe Calzaghe's workrate, and he could also make it a rough/physical fight. I think Bernard Hopkins wins by UD in a messy fight, but exciting fight at times.
Joe Calzaghe vs James Toney = Joe Calzaghe would win rounds when James Toney, gets lazy and takes rounds off. But overall James Toney is too good of a counter puncher, and he would counter Joe Calzaghe's combinations all night long. Potting shotting him in his shoulder roll stance. James Toney by UD in a competitive fight.
Joe Calzaghe vs Archie Moore = I haven't really seen enough footage of Archie Moore to really comment on him. But from the footage i have seen he liked to use the crab like style defense. He seemed to have alot of power, and was a very smart boxer. But i'd need to see more fights of his to make a better opinion.
Calzaghe would beat all of them at his best.
Everyone's allowed there own opinion i guess :-\
I allow you that, yes. :D
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Re: Joe Calzaghe VS...................
I'd say he'd beat all of them except Foster and Moore both ending in KO's.
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Re: Joe Calzaghe VS...................
Roy Jones Jr would get him out of there in the middle rounds, Calzaghe was having difficulties finding Roy Jones Jr in the middle of the ring, and that was this verison of Roy JOnes Jr, who was just a little too slow to counter effectively. In his prime I think that Roy would make Calzaghe look foolish, he was too fast of foot for Calzaghe to get him on the ropes when he didn't want to be, he was too fast of hand, Calzaghe couldn't react to his punches that well at this point, Roy was way faster in his prime. Most importantly he hit way harder in his prime, like Calzaghe this version of Roy has taken a lot of power of his punches to substitute it for some modicum of speed. There is absolutely no way Calzaghe could beat Roy in his prime, IMO he was having a hard enough time before Roy got cut as it was.
Bernard Hopkins: Calzaghe has basically retained the same speed, the only thing he has less of right now in his career is power, but he wasn't able to land on Bernad with solid punches, and Hopkins wasn't throwing enough and couldn't maintain the pace. You plug even a 35 year old Hopkins in there and he has all the speed, endurance, and power to make Calzaghe life a living hell. I can't see Calzaghe beating Hopkins at his best.
James Toney: I think Calzaghe beats him, I used to think Toney would win, but he is too easy to hit, I am not sure if he could get his counters off as effectively as some think against Calzaghe who adapts so well, I think Toney counters him early, and gets Joe's respect, but Joe starts using lateral movement and combinations like a mundane RJJ, and Toney can't deal with the workrate and lateral movement.
Michael Spinks: If he can hurt Calzaghe, I think he could stop Calzaghe, but otherwise I don't see him dealing with the speed and workrate.
Bob Foster: edge to Foster, Its hard for people to appreciate how good Calzaghe is on the inside where he can smother Foster's power. I think its a close fight if Foster can consistently hurt Calzaghe, but I think he would which is why I give him the edge. However, he may be too slow.
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Re: Joe Calzaghe VS...................
Joe Calzaghe vs Roy Jones at SM Jones Pts victory
Joe Calzaghe vs Nigel Benn at SM Joe pts victory, Benn was more experienced and had the head movement to survive a late stoppage.
Joe Calzaghe vs Chris Eubank at SM a clearer comprehensive win. It was the first time Joe had gone 12 rounds, a more experienced Joe would win handedly.
Joe Calzaghe vs Michael Spinks at Light Heavy, Spinks wins pts
Joe Calzaghe vs Bob Foster at light heavy Foster stoppage late
Joe Calzaghe vs Bernard Hopkins at SM, Joe points
Joe Calzaghe vs Jame Toney, Joe points
Joe Calzaghe vs Archie Moore at Light heavy, Archie points
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Re: Joe Calzaghe VS...................
Bernard Hopkins IMO beat Calzaghe or at least had a very close fight with him at 43, I don't see how him being younger makes it worse for him.
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Re: Joe Calzaghe VS...................
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Taeth
Bernard Hopkins IMO beat Calzaghe or at least had a very close fight with him at 43, I don't see how him being younger makes it worse for him.
Can you lose a point in a fight for faking getting hit in the nuts? Well how about twice? How about a 5 yard penalty for delay of game.
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Re: Joe Calzaghe VS...................
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dragos Bitch
When fighters are the best at there weight people do this like they did Tyson vs Gene Tunney,Jack Dempsey,Joe Louis ,George Foreman and so on. So im doing Joe Calzaghe vs some good and great fighters around his 2 weights fighting prime vs prime.
Joe Calzaghe vs Roy Jones
Joe Calzaghe vs Nigel Benn
Joe Calzaghe vs Chris Eubank
Joe Calzaghe vs Michael Spinks
Joe Calzaghe vs Bob Foster
Joe Calzaghe vs Bernard Hopkins
Joe Calzaghe vs Jame Toney
Joe Calzaghe vs Archie Moore
Right guys give your opinions please
Good idea for a thread bud, does this come from ya fairness & enjoyment of open debate, or is it a secret yearning inside where ya want JC dissed:lolololol:......
Or is it the third option (the one I prefer) .....which is that ya coming outa the closet as a JC fan & are starting to struggle because ya love him.....
Its ok bud, he is awesome Heheheheheheheh, Ive put the odd JC thread up myself, but not in your league re the threads & postings ... I did read somewhere that a part of the reason he let Frankie Boy go was because of this new kid on saddo's that was doing a better job for free,:lolololol: ...
Nice one bud !!!
:badass::badass::badass:
PS: JUST IN CASE ANYONE IS UNAWARE .. THIS POST IS IN JEST AS I HAD TO SERIOUSLY REVIEW WHAT MY THOUGHTS WAS RE THE FIGHTS LISTED ..... BECAUSE I WAS FINDING MYSELF NEARLY IN AGREEMENT WITH AL ... NEARLY THAT IS LOL....serious one to follow...
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Re: Joe Calzaghe VS...................
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JonnyFolds
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Taeth
Bernard Hopkins IMO beat Calzaghe or at least had a very close fight with him at 43, I don't see how him being younger makes it worse for him.
Can you lose a point in a fight for faking getting hit in the nuts? Well how about twice? How about a 5 yard penalty for delay of game.
He got hit low, his reaction was as lame as they are in soccer sometimes, and he didn't deserve the rest, but once again he is 43. Could any other 43 year old under the heavywieght division get anything close to a split decsion against Calzaghe?
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Re: Joe Calzaghe VS...................
Prime BHop at Super middle would not beat Joe, just because it was close does not make him able to beat him. Bernard was negative and that is the reason why he lost against Taylor, a peak B Hop would take it to Joe but all that means he would be open for a comprehensive beating.
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Re: Joe Calzaghe VS...................
couldnt agree more Master.......
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Re: Joe Calzaghe VS...................
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
Prime BHop at Super middle would not beat Joe, just because it was close does not make him able to beat him. Bernard was negative and that is the reason why he lost against Taylor, a peak B Hop would take it to Joe but all that means he would be open for a comprehensive beating.
I couldn't disagree more a prime Bernard Hopkins was like Marvin Hagler, he had unbelievable workrate. And the power to go along with it, i honestly don't know how you can say Joe Calzaghe would give a prime Bernard Hopkins a beating.
Bernard Hopkins was able to stand toe to toe with much big punchers, than Joe Calzaghe and he wasn't effected at all. And just because Bernard Hopkins was more offensive doesn't mean he was open. He was still hard to hit with flush shots.
Because he rolls with the shots very well, Bernard Hopkins has always had a sound defense. I for certain think he could force Joe Calzaghe on the backfoot, his workrate was just as good. And he was physically stronger no doubt in my mind.
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Re: Joe Calzaghe VS...................
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ICB
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
Prime BHop at Super middle would not beat Joe, just because it was close does not make him able to beat him. Bernard was negative and that is the reason why he lost against Taylor, a peak B Hop would take it to Joe but all that means he would be open for a comprehensive beating.
I couldn't disagree more a prime Bernard Hopkins was like Marvin Hagler, he
had unbelievable workrate. And the power to go along with it, i honestly don't know how you can say Joe Calzaghe would give a prime Bernard Hopkins a beating.
Bernard Hopkins was able to stand toe to toe with much big punchers, than Joe Calzaghe and he wasn't effected at all. And just because Bernard Hopkins was more offensive doesn't mean he was open. He was still hard to hit with flush shots.
Because he rolls with the shots very well, Bernard Hopkins has always had a sound defense. I for certain think he could force Joe Calzaghe on the backfoot, his workrate was just as good. And he was physically stronger no doubt in my mind.
Against who?
And you need to bear in mind he was fighting MUCH lesser quality fighters back then ;)
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Re: Joe Calzaghe VS...................
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ICB
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
Prime BHop at Super middle would not beat Joe, just because it was close does not make him able to beat him. Bernard was negative and that is the reason why he lost against Taylor, a peak B Hop would take it to Joe but all that means he would be open for a comprehensive beating.
I couldn't disagree more a prime Bernard Hopkins was like Marvin Hagler, he
had unbelievable workrate. And the power to go along with it, i honestly don't know how you can say Joe Calzaghe would give a prime Bernard Hopkins a beating.
Bernard Hopkins was able to stand toe to toe with much big punchers, than Joe Calzaghe and he wasn't effected at all. And just because Bernard Hopkins was more offensive doesn't mean he was open. He was still hard to hit with flush shots.
Because he rolls with the shots very well, Bernard Hopkins has always had a sound defense. I for certain think he could force Joe Calzaghe on the backfoot, his workrate was just as good. And he was physically stronger no doubt in my mind.
Against who?
And you need to bear in mind he was fighting MUCH lesser quality fighters back then ;)
And Joe Calzaghe wasn't fighting lesser opposition back then aswell ?
Glen Johnson was 32-0 quality fighter, Bernard Hopkins fought like a mad man and stopped him with sheer workrate/skill.
Antwun Echols was also massive puncher who beat two of Joe Calzaghe's opponents. Charles Brewer/Kabary Salem. Bernard Hopkins again beat Antwun Echols with sheer workrate/skill x2.
I don't know why your even trying to debate this, it seems like anytime i comment on a Joe Calzaghe thread. You look to pick up on anything i say just to force a debate.
Bernard Hopkins was described by boxing experts. To be like the modern day version of Marvin Hagler, because of the way he used to attack his opponents.
And anyone who has seen his early fights would know this aswell. He only stopped being aggressive in the last 5 years or so, because of his age he obviously had to change his style.
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Re: Joe Calzaghe VS...................
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ICB
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ICB
I couldn't disagree more a prime Bernard Hopkins was like Marvin Hagler, he had unbelievable workrate. And the power to go along with it, i honestly don't know how you can say Joe Calzaghe would give a prime Bernard Hopkins a beating.
Bernard Hopkins was able to stand toe to toe with much big punchers, than Joe Calzaghe and he wasn't effected at all. And just because Bernard Hopkins was more offensive doesn't mean he was open. He was still hard to hit with flush shots.
Because he rolls with the shots very well, Bernard Hopkins has always had a sound defense. I for certain think he could force Joe Calzaghe on the backfoot, his workrate was just as good. And he was physically stronger no doubt in my mind.
Against who?
And you need to bear in mind he was fighting MUCH lesser quality fighters back then ;)
And Joe Calzaghe wasn't fighting lesser opposition back then aswell ?
Glen Johnson was 32-0 quality fighter, Bernard Hopkins fought like a mad man and stopped him with sheer workrate/skill.
Antwun Echols was also massive puncher who beat two of Joe Calzaghe's opponents. Charles Brewer/Kabary Salem. Bernard Hopkins again beat Antwun Echols with sheer workrate/skill x2.
I don't know why your even trying to debate this, it seems like anytime i comment on a Joe Calzaghe thread. You look to pick up on anything i say just to force a debate.
Bernard Hopkins was described by boxing experts. To be like the modern day version of Marvin Hagler, because of the way he used to attack his opponents.
And anyone who has seen his early fights would know this aswell. He only stopped being aggressive in the last 5 years or so, because of his age he obviously had to change his style.
So people are not allowed to post an opposing view to yours? Debate is what keeps the forum going :rolleyes:
Anyone thats seen his early fights will KNOW, as you just proved, he was beating far LESSER fighters. How come his AGE didn't stop him fighting more aggressive against Pavlik?
To say he had "unbelievable workrate" is WAY over the top. What happened to that "unbelievable workrate" against Roy Jones? ;)
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Re: Joe Calzaghe VS...................
He threw 60 more punches against Pavlik which isn't not htat many more. He threw more against Winky than both of them, and I thought that was his closest fight out of all three in the competitive stand point, and most equal skill.
People need to watch that Pavlik fight again, he wasn't that aggressive in it, and it was nothing like he was in his prime. Honestly I have been saying this for months now, people need to watch Bernard Hopkins against Glen Johnson, he is extremely fast, he is hitting hard, throwing combinations.
IMO its the equivalent difference between Mayweather at 130, and how he fights now.
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Re: Joe Calzaghe VS...................
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ICB
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Against who?
And you need to bear in mind he was fighting MUCH lesser quality fighters back then ;)
And Joe Calzaghe wasn't fighting lesser opposition back then aswell ?
Glen Johnson was 32-0 quality fighter, Bernard Hopkins fought like a mad man and stopped him with sheer workrate/skill.
Antwun Echols was also massive puncher who beat two of Joe Calzaghe's opponents. Charles Brewer/Kabary Salem. Bernard Hopkins again beat Antwun Echols with sheer workrate/skill x2.
I don't know why your even trying to debate this, it seems like anytime i comment on a Joe Calzaghe thread. You look to pick up on anything i say just to force a debate.
Bernard Hopkins was described by boxing experts. To be like the modern day version of Marvin Hagler, because of the way he used to attack his opponents.
And anyone who has seen his early fights would know this aswell. He only stopped being aggressive in the last 5 years or so, because of his age he obviously had to change his style.
So people are not allowed to post an opposing view to yours? Debate is what keeps the forum going :rolleyes:
Anyone thats seen his early fights will KNOW, as you just proved, he was beating far LESSER fighters. How come his AGE didn't stop him fighting more aggressive against Pavlik?
To say he had "unbelievable workrate" is WAY over the top. What happened to that "unbelievable workrate" against Roy Jones? ;)
No its just i feel you try and pick me up on any little thing i say regarding Joe Calzaghe, i do enjoy a debate with you, but when its regarding Joe Calzaghe. I just feel you pick me up on any little thing just to force a debate.
No offense but thats how i feel about it. Then it ends up being a stupid 10 page debate. Thats why i try to avoid Joe Calzaghe threads lately. And alot of Joe Calzaghe fans do this aswell IMO.
Your trying to question Bernard Hopkins stamina so you have already lost the debate, before it even started.
When i meant his early fights, i didn't just mean before his championship fights, and i gave you examples against Antwun Echols x2, Glen Johnson, which were championship fights. And they were both quality fighters were they not ?
Especially when i watched the Glen Johnson fight, it reminded me of a Marvin Hagler performance. Non stop aggression every round you have to have great stamina to keep that kind of pace up.
He wasn't aggresive against Kelly Pavlik, he picked his shots and fought at a steady pace. Kelly Pavlik wasn't able to get his workrate going to force Bernard Hopkins to fight, because of Bernard Hopkins superb movement and boxing skills.
As for RJJ are you being serious with that comment Fenster ? RJJ had amazing speed in his prime. it would be hard for any boxer to get there workrate going against a prime RJJ.
And when they tried they were caught with hurtful counter shots, which quickly stopped them being aggressive. RJJ had too much speed and countered to quick/hard for mostly any boxer in history to get there workrate going, he also moved too well.
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Re: Joe Calzaghe VS...................
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ICB
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ICB
And Joe Calzaghe wasn't fighting lesser opposition back then aswell ?
Glen Johnson was 32-0 quality fighter, Bernard Hopkins fought like a mad man and stopped him with sheer workrate/skill.
Antwun Echols was also massive puncher who beat two of Joe Calzaghe's opponents. Charles Brewer/Kabary Salem. Bernard Hopkins again beat Antwun Echols with sheer workrate/skill x2.
I don't know why your even trying to debate this, it seems like anytime i comment on a Joe Calzaghe thread. You look to pick up on anything i say just to force a debate.
Bernard Hopkins was described by boxing experts. To be like the modern day version of Marvin Hagler, because of the way he used to attack his opponents.
And anyone who has seen his early fights would know this aswell. He only stopped being aggressive in the last 5 years or so, because of his age he obviously had to change his style.
So people are not allowed to post an opposing view to yours? Debate is what keeps the forum going :rolleyes:
Anyone thats seen his early fights will KNOW, as you just proved, he was beating far LESSER fighters. How come his AGE didn't stop him fighting more aggressive against Pavlik?
To say he had "unbelievable workrate" is WAY over the top. What happened to that "unbelievable workrate" against Roy Jones? ;)
No its just i feel you try and pick me up on any little thing i say regarding Joe Calzaghe, i do enjoy a debate with you, but when its regarding Joe Calzaghe. I just feel you pick me up on any little thing just to force a debate.
No offense but thats how i feel about it. Then it ends up being a stupid 10 page debate. Thats why i try to avoid Joe Calzaghe threads lately. And alot of Joe Calzaghe fans do this aswell IMO.
Your trying to question Bernard Hopkins stamina so you have already lost the debate, before it even started.
When i meant his early fights, i didn't just mean before his championship fights, and i gave you examples against Antwun Echols x2, Glen Johnson, which were championship fights. And they were both quality fighters were they not ?
Especially when i watched the Glen Johnson fight, it reminded me of a Marvin Hagler performance. Non stop aggression every round you have to have great stamina to keep that kind of pace up.
He wasn't aggresive against Kelly Pavlik, he picked his shots and fought at a steady pace. Kelly Pavlik wasn't able to get his workrate going to force Bernard Hopkins to fight, because of Bernard Hopkins superb movement and boxing skills.
As for RJJ are you being serious with that comment Fenster ? RJJ had amazing speed in his prime. it would be hard for any boxer to get there workrate going against a prime RJJ.
And when they tried they were caught with hurtful counter shots, which quickly stopped them being aggressive. RJJ had too much speed and countered to quick/hard for mostly any boxer in history to get there workrate going, he also moved too well.
:lol: "lost the debate"
I'm questioning YOUR over-the-top statement that Hopkins had "unbelievable workrate".. it has NOTHING to do with me questioning Hopkins stamina.
Johnson and Echols were/are good fighters. Not as good as the fighters Hopkins faced later in his career - Trinidad, Oscar, Taylor, Wright, Tarver, Calzaghe and even Pavlik.
Hopkins looked very good against Johnson. But since then Johnson has LOST 11 times (i know they were all robberies :rolleyes:) and yet is arguably MUCH better now than when he fought Hopkins.
Yes i'm serious about Roy Jones. Against a higher calibre fighter he wasn't able to unleash the same workrate. That is the point.
Just because Hopkins was YOUNGER doesn't mean he was BETTER. Here's the PROOF
"I think this is my best performance -- better than Trinidad, better than Tarver, better than Oscar, better than my 20 straight defenses," Hopkins said.
ESPN - Hopkins turned back time while turning away Pavlik's challenge - Boxing
;)
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Re: Joe Calzaghe VS...................
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Taeth
He threw 60 more punches against Pavlik which isn't not htat many more. He threw more against Winky than both of them, and I thought that was his closest fight out of all three in the competitive stand point, and most equal skill.
People need to watch that Pavlik fight again, he wasn't that aggressive in it, and it was nothing like he was in his prime. Honestly I have been saying this for months now, people need to watch Bernard Hopkins against Glen Johnson, he is extremely fast, he is hitting hard, throwing combinations.
IMO its the equivalent difference between Mayweather at 130, and how he fights now.
He threw 60 more punches against whom?
That's interesting he threw more against Winky. Probably because the fight was such an UGLY BORE it didn't seem so. Hopkins clearly landed much cleaner against Pavlik.
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Re: Joe Calzaghe VS...................
Really I don't seem to remember Hopkins dropping Pavlik...
Also it was 60 more punching against Pavlik then Calzaghe which adds up to 5 more punches a round. Hardly what I call a dramatic change in output. Most of it Bernard was backing way (albeit more slowly because Pavlik has horrible footwork).
Also the Hopkins-Calzaghe fight was just as much as bore as the Wright-Hopkins fight which I really liked, it showed great skill from both guys... actually both fights did. They were both a tribute to what the best in the world have to offer, and how difficult it is for a top level guy to fight another guy on his level.
The difference is that Wright fought a super close fight with Hopkins and he was naturally smaller. Calzaghe for his entire career fought above what Hopkins had done for most of his 20 year career.
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Re: Joe Calzaghe VS...................
See you can argue workrate see Calzaghe has a high workrate but 70% of his punches are pitter patter shit could he throw 1000-1200 solid shots NO!. But you can have a fighter who can throw 800 punches per fight but there solid snappy shots i know which i prefer to see and which i see to be the better workrate the guy who throws 800 solid snappy shots. Look at Pac man and his workrate but all his shots are solid and snappy see Bernard when younger didn't throw Calzaghe type of punches Bernard threw a high workrate of solid crisp shots.
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Re: Joe Calzaghe VS...................
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Taeth
Really I don't seem to remember Hopkins dropping Pavlik...
Also it was 60 more punching against Pavlik then Calzaghe which adds up to 5 more punches a round. Hardly what I call a dramatic change in output. Most of it Bernard was backing way (albeit more slowly because Pavlik has horrible footwork).
Also the Hopkins-Calzaghe fight was just as much as bore as the Wright-Hopkins fight which I really liked, it showed great skill from both guys... actually both fights did. They were both a tribute to what the best in the world have to offer, and how difficult it is for a top level guy to fight another guy on his level.
You can't equate 60 more punches as 5 more per round. Doesn't work like that. For instance - when a fighter has his opponent hurt he normally unloads much more punches. See Hopkins-Johnson for this. (;)) So the sixty punches can occur in one round.
The fact that Hopkins threw only sixty more punches against Pavlik, is surprising, and just highlights how good Calzaghe is.. when you consider the highly contrasting result in those fights.
Quote:
Also the Hopkins-Calzaghe fight was just as much as bore as the Wright-Hopkins fight which I really liked, it showed great skill from both guys... actually both fights did. They were both a tribute to what the best in the world have to offer, and how difficult it is for a top level guy to fight another guy on his level.
Exactly! That's the point i'm making. The reason two great fighters don't always make for a great spectacle is because they neutralise each others strong point.
If you are leauges above your opposition you will look better... In most cases. ;)
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Re: Joe Calzaghe VS...................
Joe Calzaghe vs Roy Jones--At SMW no one and I repeat NO ONE beats Roy Jones at his peak then...Calzaghe is embaressed completly
Joe Calzaghe vs Nigel Benn- Calzaghe..
Joe Calzaghe vs Chris Eubank..Calzaghe
Joe Calzaghe vs Michael Spinks..We have to call this at LHW since MS was not a SMW so...Spinks outboxes him...MS was a great LHW top 5 AT
Joe Calzaghe vs Bob Foster--I say Foster but it would be close IMO
Joe Calzaghe vs Bernard Hopkins--Depends on what version of Hopkins...The Hopkins during his MW reign up until 2002 wins 8 out of 10 times
Joe Calzaghe vs Jame Toney--Unless James is having a lazy night at SMW he takes Calzaghe out
Joe Calzaghe vs Archie Moore--Moore everyday of the week and twice on Sunday....The Old Mongoose too slick
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Re: Joe Calzaghe VS...................
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Taeth
Really I don't seem to remember Hopkins dropping Pavlik...
Also it was 60 more punching against Pavlik then Calzaghe which adds up to 5 more punches a round. Hardly what I call a dramatic change in output. Most of it Bernard was backing way (albeit more slowly because Pavlik has horrible footwork).
Also the Hopkins-Calzaghe fight was just as much as bore as the Wright-Hopkins fight which I really liked, it showed great skill from both guys... actually both fights did. They were both a tribute to what the best in the world have to offer, and how difficult it is for a top level guy to fight another guy on his level.
You can't equate 60 more punches as 5 more per round. Doesn't work like that. For instance - when a fighter has his opponent hurt he normally unloads much more punches. See Hopkins-Johnson for this. (;)) So the sixty punches can occur in one round.
The fact that Hopkins threw only sixty more punches against Pavlik, is surprising, and just highlights how good Calzaghe is.. when you consider the highly contrasting result in those fights.
Quote:
Also the Hopkins-Calzaghe fight was just as much as bore as the Wright-Hopkins fight which I really liked, it showed great skill from both guys... actually both fights did. They were both a tribute to what the best in the world have to offer, and how difficult it is for a top level guy to fight another guy on his level.
Exactly! That's the point i'm making. The reason two great fighters don't always make for a great spectacle is because they neutralise each others strong point.
If you are leauges above your opposition you will look better... In most cases. ;)
I saw Bernard and Wright neutralizing eachother with skill, in the Calzaghe-Hopkins fight, definitely Calzaghe got in more of a rhythym, but it was more Hopkins slowing down, after that stupid low blow fiasco he landed solid shots again because he regained his quickness.
I agree Pavlik isn't in Calzaghe's league, I am just making the point that Hopkins wasn't more aggresive in that fight for the majority of it, but the comparison with Hopkins-Johnson is off, he threw a lot of punches in every round except maybe the 9th where he took a breather.
All in all, Hopkins has always been extremely hard to hit even when coming forward, he has always been a great inside fighter, and he has always had great boxing skills even when he fought Jones.
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Re: Joe Calzaghe VS...................
Quote:
Originally Posted by
DaxxKahn
Joe Calzaghe vs Roy Jones--At SMW no one and I repeat NO ONE beats Roy Jones at his peak then...Calzaghe is embaressed completly
Joe Calzaghe vs Nigel Benn- Calzaghe..
Joe Calzaghe vs Chris Eubank..Calzaghe
Joe Calzaghe vs Michael Spinks..We have to call this at LHW since MS was not a SMW so...Spinks outboxes him...MS was a great LHW top 5 AT
Joe Calzaghe vs Bob Foster--I say Foster but it would be close IMO
Joe Calzaghe vs Bernard Hopkins--Depends on what version of Hopkins...The Hopkins during his MW reign up until 2002 wins 8 out of 10 times
Joe Calzaghe vs Jame Toney--Unless James is having a lazy night at SMW he takes Calzaghe out
Joe Calzaghe vs Archie Moore--Moore everyday of the week and twice on Sunday....The Old Mongoose too slick
Good views how would you have him beating Benn and Eubank? as in Points or stoppage?
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Re: Joe Calzaghe VS...................
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dragos Bitch
Quote:
Originally Posted by
DaxxKahn
Joe Calzaghe vs Roy Jones--At SMW no one and I repeat NO ONE beats Roy Jones at his peak then...Calzaghe is embaressed completly
Joe Calzaghe vs Nigel Benn- Calzaghe..
Joe Calzaghe vs Chris Eubank..Calzaghe
Joe Calzaghe vs Michael Spinks..We have to call this at LHW since MS was not a SMW so...Spinks outboxes him...MS was a great LHW top 5 AT
Joe Calzaghe vs Bob Foster--I say Foster but it would be close IMO
Joe Calzaghe vs Bernard Hopkins--Depends on what version of Hopkins...The Hopkins during his MW reign up until 2002 wins 8 out of 10 times
Joe Calzaghe vs Jame Toney--Unless James is having a lazy night at SMW he takes Calzaghe out
Joe Calzaghe vs Archie Moore--Moore everyday of the week and twice on Sunday....The Old Mongoose too slick
Good views how would you have him beating Benn and Eubank? as in Points or stoppage?
I think that he stops Benn and Eubank on points
A younger harder hitting Calzaghe with the combined volume of shots would be too much for Benn
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Re: Joe Calzaghe VS...................
Quote:
Originally Posted by
DaxxKahn
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dragos Bitch
Quote:
Originally Posted by
DaxxKahn
Joe Calzaghe vs Roy Jones--At SMW no one and I repeat NO ONE beats Roy Jones at his peak then...Calzaghe is embaressed completly
Joe Calzaghe vs Nigel Benn- Calzaghe..
Joe Calzaghe vs Chris Eubank..Calzaghe
Joe Calzaghe vs Michael Spinks..We have to call this at LHW since MS was not a SMW so...Spinks outboxes him...MS was a great LHW top 5 AT
Joe Calzaghe vs Bob Foster--I say Foster but it would be close IMO
Joe Calzaghe vs Bernard Hopkins--Depends on what version of Hopkins...The Hopkins during his MW reign up until 2002 wins 8 out of 10 times
Joe Calzaghe vs Jame Toney--Unless James is having a lazy night at SMW he takes Calzaghe out
Joe Calzaghe vs Archie Moore--Moore everyday of the week and twice on Sunday....The Old Mongoose too slick
Good views how would you have him beating Benn and Eubank? as in Points or stoppage?
I think that he stops Benn and Eubank on points
A younger harder hitting Calzaghe with the combined volume of shots would be too much for Benn
I think the Eubank who beat Benn and Wharton would be a handfull for Calzaghe but i agree he would beat Benn probably UD12 Benn weren't that easy to get rid of as G-man foundout unless Benn landed clean then Calzaghe would go down like he did vs Mitchell and Jones but wouldn't rise in my opinion. As we all know im no Calzaghe fan but i would have prefered him to come along in Benn,Eubank,Collins,Toney and Jones day to see if he could get through that gaunlet.
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Re: Joe Calzaghe VS...................
Joe Calzaghe vs Roy Jones- Jones win pts
Joe Calzaghe vs Nigel Benn- Calzaghe win pts/ late stoppage
Joe Calzaghe vs Chris Eubank- aaarrrghh tough one DRAW
Joe Calzaghe vs Michael Spinks- Spinks pts
Joe Calzaghe vs Bob Foster- Foster pts
Joe Calzaghe vs Bernard Hopkins- Hopkins pts
Joe Calzaghe vs Jame Toney- another tough one but at his prime i'd go toney pts
Joe Calzaghe vs Archie Moore- gotta be Archie pts
I don't see anyone KOing Joe his toughness and chin are winning me over.
