Without Taking ANY Credit Away From Manny...
...It is really hard tell how he would do against against any of the top Welterweights. Oscar was not an elite fighter last night, by no fault of his own, but he really wasnt competitive at all. Manny made him look bad, but he did absolutely nothing to test Manny. I still believe Manny would be best suited at Light Welterweight. There were unordinary circumstance in this fight and neither was a true welterweight. A fight with Hatton is the most interesting option and would be extremely competitive imo. I think Manny should steer clear from fighting any of the top ten welterweights though.
Re: Without Taking ANY Credit Away From Manny But...
Yeah, I see your point. It wasn't a give & take battle where Manny overcame what Oscar threw at him. Not like Ray having to chase down & stop Hearns late to pull out the win. Manny deserves all the credit but that was not the Oscar who lost close battles to Shane, Tito, etc.
Re: Without Taking ANY Credit Away From Manny...
I see what your saying Boom Boom, but for me it's not that he beat Oscar I'm not looking at the name, what I'm looking at as that Pacquiao fought at 147 lbs. and won.
To move up in weight like that and skip divisions and step in like that is insane...
Re: Without Taking ANY Credit Away From Manny...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CutMeMick
I see what your saying Boom Boom, but for me it's not that he beat Oscar I'm not looking at the name, what I'm looking at as that Pacquiao fought at 147 lbs. and won.
To move up in weight like that and skip divisions and step in like that is insane...
no it is not! pacman was the biggerman that night! Pacman fights old guys, of course he will look impressive! Give Pacman a guy like tim bradley or joan guzman or kendall holt and he will be out cold he wasnt as fast as people think.
PAcman at 122 was exciting.
Re: Without Taking ANY Credit Away From Manny...
Absolutely Mick. And he was still cut-up and fast. Its just not his best weightclass to be at. He was really a big light welterweight last night weighing in at 142. That seems to be the highest he should weigh for any fight.
Re: Without Taking ANY Credit Away From Manny...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Boom Boom
Absolutely Mick. And he was still cut-up and fast. Its just not his best weightclass to be at. He was really a big light welterweight last night weighing in at 142. That seems to be the highest he should weigh for any fight.
Have to agree and initial post.This was the best top fighter in his prime tackling a past top fighter on the other side of the hill who has monumental promotional talents and huge name recognition.Personally I want to see Manny clean up the Lightweights, and clear it up but he can obviously carry the weight and exposure so he is there to stay.
Re: Without Taking ANY Credit Away From Manny...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Boom Boom
Absolutely Mick. And he was still cut-up and fast. Its just not his best weightclass to be at. He was really a big light welterweight last night weighing in at 142. That seems to be the highest he should weigh for any fight.
Right on Boom Boom...
So I think the only way to clarify the weight thing is to see him at 140 and see how he fairs.
I personally think he beats Hatton and I'd favor him over any of the title holders at 140... But let's be real here aside from Hatton the rest of the title holders at 140 don't deserve the time of day from Pac.
Re: Without Taking ANY Credit Away From Manny...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Moono
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CutMeMick
I see what your saying Boom Boom, but for me it's not that he beat Oscar I'm not looking at the name, what I'm looking at as that Pacquiao fought at 147 lbs. and won.
To move up in weight like that and skip divisions and step in like that is insane...
no it is not! pacman was the biggerman that night! Pacman fights old guys, of course he will look impressive! Give Pacman a guy like tim bradley or joan guzman or kendall holt and he will be out cold he wasnt as fast as people think.
PAcman at 122 was exciting.
Well Pac was the biggerman in weight that doesn't make him physically bigger. All he did was weigh more you realize chances are he rehydrate and most of those lbs. were possible water.
I'm can't credit him for beating ODLH cause I knew he would but it's the way he did it and at the weight he fought that I give him credit for.
You haven't been here long enough to know this but chances are I'm the biggest ODLH fan here so don't think for a second your talking to some Pac groupie here. I'm a fan of the sport and see fights for what they are.
I see ODLH was past it and karma happened, what he did JCC Sr. was done to him it happens it's the cycle of the sport.
Re: Without Taking ANY Credit Away From Manny...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CutMeMick
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Moono
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CutMeMick
I see what your saying Boom Boom, but for me it's not that he beat Oscar I'm not looking at the name, what I'm looking at as that Pacquiao fought at 147 lbs. and won.
To move up in weight like that and skip divisions and step in like that is insane...
no it is not! pacman was the biggerman that night! Pacman fights old guys, of course he will look impressive! Give Pacman a guy like tim bradley or joan guzman or kendall holt and he will be out cold he wasnt as fast as people think.
PAcman at 122 was exciting.
Well Pac was the biggerman in weight that doesn't make him physically bigger. All he did was weigh more you realize chances are he rehydrate and most of those lbs. were possible water.
I'm can't credit him for beating ODLH cause I knew he would but it's the way he did it and at the weight he fought that I give him credit for.
You haven't been here long enough to know this but chances are I'm the biggest ODLH fan here so don't think for a second your talking to some Pac groupie here. I'm a fan of the sport and see fights for what they are.
I see ODLH was past it and karma happened, what he did JCC Sr. was done to him it happens it's the cycle of the sport.
They stopped that fight too soon, nacho was panicking and got scared! Oscar with floyd sr in his corner would of won or fought better then that. IF they didnt stop it oscar would of got his 2nd win but instead they made it look like he quit on his stool when he didnt, they forced him to quit it was lame what they did to him.
Pacman couldnt even drop him or hurt him and he threw many punches to oscar.
1 Attachment(s)
Re: Without Taking ANY Credit Away From Manny...
Your ride has arrived Moon's.....
Re: Without Taking ANY Credit Away From Manny...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Moono
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CutMeMick
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Moono
no it is not! pacman was the biggerman that night! Pacman fights old guys, of course he will look impressive! Give Pacman a guy like tim bradley or joan guzman or kendall holt and he will be out cold he wasnt as fast as people think.
PAcman at 122 was exciting.
Well Pac was the biggerman in weight that doesn't make him physically bigger. All he did was weigh more you realize chances are he rehydrate and most of those lbs. were possible water.
I'm can't credit him for beating ODLH cause I knew he would but it's the way he did it and at the weight he fought that I give him credit for.
You haven't been here long enough to know this but chances are I'm the biggest ODLH fan here so don't think for a second your talking to some Pac groupie here. I'm a fan of the sport and see fights for what they are.
I see ODLH was past it and karma happened, what he did JCC Sr. was done to him it happens it's the cycle of the sport.
They stopped that fight too soon, nacho was panicking and got scared! Oscar with floyd sr in his corner would of won or fought better then that. IF they didnt stop it oscar would of got his 2nd win but instead they made it look like he quit on his stool when he didnt, they forced him to quit it was lame what they did to him.
Pacman couldnt even drop him or hurt him and he threw many punches to oscar.
This is really getting ridiculous...no wait...you are ridiculous...:shakehead:
Re: Without Taking ANY Credit Away From Manny...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Moono
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CutMeMick
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Moono
no it is not! pacman was the biggerman that night! Pacman fights old guys, of course he will look impressive! Give Pacman a guy like tim bradley or joan guzman or kendall holt and he will be out cold he wasnt as fast as people think.
PAcman at 122 was exciting.
Well Pac was the biggerman in weight that doesn't make him physically bigger. All he did was weigh more you realize chances are he rehydrate and most of those lbs. were possible water.
I'm can't credit him for beating ODLH cause I knew he would but it's the way he did it and at the weight he fought that I give him credit for.
You haven't been here long enough to know this but chances are I'm the biggest ODLH fan here so don't think for a second your talking to some Pac groupie here. I'm a fan of the sport and see fights for what they are.
I see ODLH was past it and karma happened, what he did JCC Sr. was done to him it happens it's the cycle of the sport.
They stopped that fight too soon, nacho was panicking and got scared! Oscar with floyd sr in his corner would of won or fought better then that. IF they didnt stop it oscar would of got his 2nd win but instead they made it look like he quit on his stool when he didnt, they forced him to quit it was lame what they did to him.
Pacman couldnt even drop him or hurt him and he threw many punches to oscar.
Oscar catch a 2nd wind? :dunce:
Are you kidding me? I haven't seen Oscar catch a 2nd wind since 1995.
Your oblivious if you don't know that Oscar was not gonna catch any kind of wind. The only thing he was catching last night was Pacs left hand and that's not a good thing to be catching...
Oscars always had stamina problems, his legs give and his arms are almost certain to tire out you can see this in most of his fights.
Re: Without Taking ANY Credit Away From Manny...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Moono
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CutMeMick
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Moono
no it is not! pacman was the biggerman that night! Pacman fights old guys, of course he will look impressive! Give Pacman a guy like tim bradley or joan guzman or kendall holt and he will be out cold he wasnt as fast as people think.
PAcman at 122 was exciting.
Well Pac was the biggerman in weight that doesn't make him physically bigger. All he did was weigh more you realize chances are he rehydrate and most of those lbs. were possible water.
I'm can't credit him for beating ODLH cause I knew he would but it's the way he did it and at the weight he fought that I give him credit for.
You haven't been here long enough to know this but chances are I'm the biggest ODLH fan here so don't think for a second your talking to some Pac groupie here. I'm a fan of the sport and see fights for what they are.
I see ODLH was past it and karma happened, what he did JCC Sr. was done to him it happens it's the cycle of the sport.
They stopped that fight too soon, nacho was panicking and got scared! Oscar with floyd sr in his corner would of won or fought better then that. IF they didnt stop it oscar would of got his 2nd win but instead they made it look like he quit on his stool when he didnt, they forced him to quit it was lame what they did to him.
Pacman couldnt even drop him or hurt him and he threw many punches to oscar.
The last time ODLH finished strong in a fight was against Fernando Vargas, in 2002. ODLH was no way on earth going to get a 2nd wind against Manny Pacquiao.
If anything he would of got weaker because he was obviously weight drained IMO. But even in his prime he was very hot/cold in the later rounds.
In his fights against John John Molina/Ike Quartey/Fernando Vargas he finished strong. But against Shane Mosley x2/Felix Trinidad/Floyd Mayweather/ he finished poorly.
Re: Without Taking ANY Credit Away From Manny...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Boom Boom
Absolutely Mick. And he was still cut-up and fast. Its just not his best weightclass to be at. He was really a big light welterweight last night weighing in at 142. That seems to be the highest he should weigh for any fight.
PAC says he was 146, evidence points at suspect scales at the weigh in.
A fight with Hatton would be big for sure, but the JW title itself isn't worth much IMO. Not much action in that division aside from Hatton. Is it worth it to go down to 140 for one fight, then back up? I suppose, if he is interested in racking up alphabet belts. I'm undecided on this point. I'd rather see him take on Mayweather at 147. Or some other welterweight. Let Hatton move up if he wants PAC. If he can handle it.
Re: Without Taking ANY Credit Away From Manny...
If Oscar fought much better and really tested Manny, then of course that's true, we would be able to tell a lot better how he can handle genuine Welterweights...
But from the fight we can still gauge a few things..
At that weight, he was still as fast and sharp as he was at lower weights..
His body still looked incredible.. Every single bit of that 142 or 145 lbs was pure, active, productive muscle..
His punches snapped as good as they did at lower weights.
His movement has gotten even better over his last couple of fights courtesy of Roach
The fact that he is the P4P fighter in the world, and now it's clear he looks the same at 140+ than he did at lower weights,, why couldn't we say that he logically would be the best 140 lbs out there...
He has been in some incredible scraps in the lower divisions and has really been messed up, and still continued on to win decisions.. He is incredibly tough, and the way he's carried his weight up to 142+, I personally would consider him a genuine 140 pounder now, and P4P will beat anyone at that weight...
It would be doing him a bit of an injustice to say that we don't know what he would be like with other welters, because I don't believe he should be considered a genuine 147 pound fighter.. He skipped 140 and I think that is where he should be considered now.... And at that weight, he'll be as sharp and tough as anyone out there... And I believe with a fight or 2 or 3 at that weight, he could look at 147... It would be incredibly hard to say how he would go against a Cotto or Margarito just based on Oscar.. Oscar brought nothing..
But what Pac proved on his own about how well he brought all his attributes and more up through the weight classes to maybe as high as 145 pounds, proves that as a P4P champ, you can say that he has a shot against anyone that he makes that weight at...
Or i'm just crazy..
Re: Without Taking ANY Credit Away From Manny...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Moono
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CutMeMick
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Moono
no it is not! pacman was the biggerman that night! Pacman fights old guys, of course he will look impressive! Give Pacman a guy like tim bradley or joan guzman or kendall holt and he will be out cold he wasnt as fast as people think.
PAcman at 122 was exciting.
Well Pac was the biggerman in weight that doesn't make him physically bigger. All he did was weigh more you realize chances are he rehydrate and most of those lbs. were possible water.
I'm can't credit him for beating ODLH cause I knew he would but it's the way he did it and at the weight he fought that I give him credit for.
You haven't been here long enough to know this but chances are I'm the biggest ODLH fan here so don't think for a second your talking to some Pac groupie here. I'm a fan of the sport and see fights for what they are.
I see ODLH was past it and karma happened, what he did JCC Sr. was done to him it happens it's the cycle of the sport.
They stopped that fight too soon, nacho was panicking and got scared! Oscar with floyd sr in his corner would of won or fought better then that. IF they didnt stop it oscar would of got his 2nd win but instead they made it look like he quit on his stool when he didnt, they forced him to quit it was lame what they did to him.
Pacman couldnt even drop him or hurt him and he threw many punches to oscar.
LOL. This guy is Schizo. Big time!!!;D;D;D
Re: Without Taking ANY Credit Away From Manny...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Moono
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CutMeMick
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Moono
no it is not! pacman was the biggerman that night! Pacman fights old guys, of course he will look impressive! Give Pacman a guy like tim bradley or joan guzman or kendall holt and he will be out cold he wasnt as fast as people think.
PAcman at 122 was exciting.
Well Pac was the biggerman in weight that doesn't make him physically bigger. All he did was weigh more you realize chances are he rehydrate and most of those lbs. were possible water.
I'm can't credit him for beating ODLH cause I knew he would but it's the way he did it and at the weight he fought that I give him credit for.
You haven't been here long enough to know this but chances are I'm the biggest ODLH fan here so don't think for a second your talking to some Pac groupie here. I'm a fan of the sport and see fights for what they are.
I see ODLH was past it and karma happened, what he did JCC Sr. was done to him it happens it's the cycle of the sport.
They stopped that fight too soon, nacho was panicking and got scared! Oscar with floyd sr in his corner would of won or fought better then that. IF they didnt stop it oscar would of got his 2nd win but instead they made it look like he quit on his stool when he didnt, they forced him to quit it was lame what they did to him.
Pacman couldnt even drop him or hurt him and he threw many punches to oscar.
Huh?!?
No offense, Moono... but why do I get the distinct impression that you wander into the site with a jar of Vaseline in your hand and a bullseye taped to your butt?
Just wondering.
Re: Without Taking ANY Credit Away From Manny...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CGM
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Boom Boom
Absolutely Mick. And he was still cut-up and fast. Its just not his best weightclass to be at. He was really a big light welterweight last night weighing in at 142. That seems to be the highest he should weigh for any fight.
PAC says he was 146, evidence points at suspect scales at the weigh in.
A fight with Hatton would be big for sure, but the JW title itself isn't worth much IMO. Not much action in that division aside from Hatton. Is it worth it to go down to 140 for one fight, then back up? I suppose, if he is interested in racking up alphabet belts. I'm undecided on this point. I'd rather see him take on Mayweather at 147. Or some other welterweight. Let Hatton move up if he wants PAC. If he can handle it.
I think a fight with Hatton is the best possible option. Everyone who was saying Oscar was picking on the smaller man, the same would apply to Floyd. If he comes back he should fight TRUE Welterweights like Marg or Cotto. Even Williams at 154. I think I would dislike Floyd even more if he Fought Pac. Manny and Ricky should fight and both deserve the fight.
Re: Without Taking ANY Credit Away From Manny...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dizaster
If Oscar fought much better and really tested Manny, then of course that's true, we would be able to tell a lot better how he can handle genuine Welterweights...
But from the fight we can still gauge a few things..
At that weight, he was still as fast and sharp as he was at lower weights..
His body still looked incredible.. Every single bit of that 142 or 145 lbs was pure, active, productive muscle..
His punches snapped as good as they did at lower weights.
His movement has gotten even better over his last couple of fights courtesy of Roach
The fact that he is the P4P fighter in the world, and now it's clear he looks the same at 140+ than he did at lower weights,, why couldn't we say that he logically would be the best 140 lbs out there...
He has been in some incredible scraps in the lower divisions and has really been messed up, and still continued on to win decisions.. He is incredibly tough, and the way he's carried his weight up to 142+, I personally would consider him a genuine 140 pounder now, and P4P will beat anyone at that weight...
It would be doing him a bit of an injustice to say that we don't know what he would be like with other welters, because I don't believe he should be considered a genuine 147 pound fighter.. He skipped 140 and I think that is where he should be considered now.... And at that weight, he'll be as sharp and tough as anyone out there... And I believe with a fight or 2 or 3 at that weight, he could look at 147... It would be incredibly hard to say how he would go against a Cotto or Margarito just based on Oscar.. Oscar brought nothing..
But what Pac proved on his own about how well he brought all his attributes and more up through the weight classes to maybe as high as 145 pounds, proves that as a P4P champ, you can say that he has a shot against anyone that he makes that weight at...
Or i'm just crazy..
Superb post... :appl:
Very well said.
Re: Without Taking ANY Credit Away From Manny...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CutMeMick
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dizaster
If Oscar fought much better and really tested Manny, then of course that's true, we would be able to tell a lot better how he can handle genuine Welterweights...
But from the fight we can still gauge a few things..
At that weight, he was still as fast and sharp as he was at lower weights..
His body still looked incredible.. Every single bit of that 142 or 145 lbs was pure, active, productive muscle..
His punches snapped as good as they did at lower weights.
His movement has gotten even better over his last couple of fights courtesy of Roach
The fact that he is the P4P fighter in the world, and now it's clear he looks the same at 140+ than he did at lower weights,, why couldn't we say that he logically would be the best 140 lbs out there...
He has been in some incredible scraps in the lower divisions and has really been messed up, and still continued on to win decisions.. He is incredibly tough, and the way he's carried his weight up to 142+, I personally would consider him a genuine 140 pounder now, and P4P will beat anyone at that weight...
It would be doing him a bit of an injustice to say that we don't know what he would be like with other welters, because I don't believe he should be considered a genuine 147 pound fighter.. He skipped 140 and I think that is where he should be considered now.... And at that weight, he'll be as sharp and tough as anyone out there... And I believe with a fight or 2 or 3 at that weight, he could look at 147... It would be incredibly hard to say how he would go against a Cotto or Margarito just based on Oscar.. Oscar brought nothing..
But what Pac proved on his own about how well he brought all his attributes and more up through the weight classes to maybe as high as 145 pounds, proves that as a P4P champ, you can say that he has a shot against anyone that he makes that weight at...
Or i'm just crazy..
Superb post... :appl:
Very well said.
A true honor.. I'm here for your applause Mick :)
Re: Without Taking ANY Credit Away From Manny...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CutMeMick
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Boom Boom
Absolutely Mick. And he was still cut-up and fast. Its just not his best weightclass to be at. He was really a big light welterweight last night weighing in at 142. That seems to be the highest he should weigh for any fight.
Right on Boom Boom...
So I think the only way to clarify the weight thing is to see him at 140 and see how he fairs.
I personally think he beats Hatton and I'd favor him over any of the title holders at 140... But let's be real here aside from Hatton the rest of the title holders at 140 don't deserve the time of day from Pac.
Are you kidding me. I think Holt and Bradley give Manny tons of problems at 140, especially Bradley because of his speed and combination punching. Timothy Bradley is probably the best at 140 right now. He beat Witter who Hatton has been ducking for some time. I think its safe to say that Bradley is the man to beat at that weight division.
