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I just rewatched his fight with Vera and he seemed a little one-dimesnsional. He put on a great performance don't get me wrong and floored him multiple times but he just relied solely on his power. He could get exposed when he steps up. He could do with getting a better trainer, Your thoughts ?
I agree with you here, I think Wolfe has done a great job of making him tough, but now he needs to learn more fundamental skills. Someday he's going to run into someone with a chin like Vera's but actually has a slight level of boxing ability and that spells trouble for him. He is an exciting fighter though and I think he is in a division where he could do some damage even as he stands now. His stamina ultimately will be his downfall though.
Tough guy who likes to fight and can smell blood. I dont think he will do well against a good boxer though cause as you said he relies a lot on his power and lacks a sound defence. A guy like Forrest, or even Spinks, would trouble him (assuming either has anything left). Hope he improves cause he has good potential.
Spinks could actually take him to school IMO. He has that style that can trouble a lot of fighters.Quote:
Originally Posted by Boom Boom
I think his stamina is typically good, but not for this fight. He needs to keep Wolfe. Just like with Jermain Taylor, you could bring in a better trainer and get a worse result. He and Wolfe are very close, like siblings and I think far more harm would be done to his progress if she weren't around. Bring in someone who knows what she doesn't to teach him and I guarantee you the Junior Middleweight division will have a monster on its hands. And then the Middleweight division.Quote:
Originally Posted by killersheep
I think Sergio Martinez would pick apart and decimate Kirkland, I'm excited with the influx of good fighters emerging at 154. I understand what you are saying about a new trainer, but don't you feel Kirkland has learned what he can from Wolfe?Quote:
Originally Posted by KillfaceI think his stamina is typically good, but not for this fight. He needs to keep Wolfe. Just like with Jermain Taylor, you could bring in a better trainer and get a worse result. He and Wolfe are very close, like siblings and I think far more harm would be done to his progress if she weren't around. Bring in someone who knows what she doesn't to teach him and I guarantee you the Junior Middleweight division will have a monster on its hands. And then the Middleweight division.Quote:
Originally Posted by killersheep
It isnt the trainer,his fundamental flaws are all his own,he doesnt trust his jab,and tends to pursue right to his fighter. I highly doubt that the all time greatest female fighter didnt mention cutting the ring or getting his jab going. Put him in with Emanuel Roach McGirt III esquire,and unless he decides to trust his jab and cuts the ring,you'll get the exact same result
Using Emanuel as an example look what he did with Klitschko with his jab, he went from not using it to using it to dominate his opponents.Quote:
Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey
I allways thought Klitschko had a decent jab,Kirkland doesnt want to use the damned thing,he wants to press.If I wanted to improve him,Id have him slip in more rather then just pursue the way he does. He's fundamentally solid, but there are things he need to work on. Actually Id have him fight like Ann,some guys just dont get it.Quote:
Originally Posted by killersheepUsing Emanuel as an example look what he did with Klitschko with his jab, he went from not using it to using it to dominate his opponents.Quote:
Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey
I think he needs to invest in some defense & body punching.But I thought he brought his left sharper vs. Vera.Ann was really emphatic in that one,Kirkland seemed to,In spots,just go through the motions.
Klitschko did have a good jab, as does Kirkland, the problem is not using it as was the case with Klitschko.Quote:
Originally Posted by Trainer MonkeyI allways thought Klitschko had a decent jab,Kirkland doesnt want to use the damned thing,he wants to press.If I wanted to improve him,Id have him slip in more rather then just pursue the way he does. He's fundamentally solid, but there are things he need to work on. Actually Id have him fight like Ann,some guys just dont get it.Quote:
Originally Posted by killersheepUsing Emanuel as an example look what he did with Klitschko with his jab, he went from not using it to using it to dominate his opponents.Quote:
Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey
Kirkland is TV friendly.
It is also nice to see that he has cracked the top 10.
The Ring Jr. Middleweight Ratings
He defiantly took moments off,totally grant that.If he fought more like his trainer did,he'd be home free. She closed way better then Mandigo does. I think he'll be solid,and probably win a championship,but he aint Ann thats for sureQuote:
Originally Posted by Spicoli surfs 'Nawlins
I think Angulo knocks Kirkland out
I agree - I see similarities between Kirkland and Berto.....Both have electrifying speed and good power but when you step up they better patch the holes in their defense and improve technique or the sandman will be paying them a visit......
I agree with the comment on Angulo...that guy is a beast and would have his way with Kirkland at this point.....
As I have stated before in the past, I love watching Kirkland fight, he is exciting to watch, that's for sure, but I have also said that he really needs to shore up his defense big time.
He also needs to learn to calm down in the ring. I think the just loves to fight so much, and just wants to get in there, and cause some pain, that he gets over excited, and forgets his fundamentals.
I think taking Anne out completely, would be a mistake. Both of them had a bad upbringing, and James feels comfortable with her, and trusts her because of their similar backgrounds. Sergio talked to him a lot when they were sparring, and he told me that Kirkland doesn't trust anybody but Anne and Pops, so I think switching trainers all together would not be a good thing for him mentally. But I agree with Killface that maybe they can bring someone else in to teach him the things he needs, to take it to the next level.
If he learns to settle down, pace himself, and shore up that defense, he can make some major noise at 154.
he's good but angulo is the better prospect
I agree with that mostly,but I dont think they need somebody to teach him much new,they need somebody to get him to hunker down and focus.when they get him fighting like Ann does,he looks damned fine,when he loses his focus in there,is where it gets worrying. For all intents and purposes,what they really need is a motivational speaker to keep him focused.Quote:
Originally Posted by Diane
I don't agree, he's not Anne and doesn't have the stamina to maintain the pace if he was fighting like Anne. He needs to learn to use his jab more and not get out of control.Quote:
Originally Posted by Trainer MonkeyI agree with that mostly,but I dont think they need somebody to teach him much new,they need somebody to get him to hunker down and focus.when they get him fighting like Ann does,he looks damned fine,when he loses his focus in there,is where it gets worrying. For all intents and purposes,what they really need is a motivational speaker to keep him focused.Quote:
Originally Posted by Diane
Disagree going the other way,he's a little short for his weight,he needs to close distance,few fighters close like WolfeQuote:
Originally Posted by killersheepI don't agree, he's not Anne and doesn't have the stamina to maintain the pace if he was fighting like Anne. He needs to learn to use his jab more and not get out of control.Quote:
Originally Posted by Trainer MonkeyI agree with that mostly,but I dont think they need somebody to teach him much new,they need somebody to get him to hunker down and focus.when they get him fighting like Ann does,he looks damned fine,when he loses his focus in there,is where it gets worrying. For all intents and purposes,what they really need is a motivational speaker to keep him focused.Quote:
Originally Posted by Diane
He came up in large part with Wolfe, both of them being trained by the same person before she took the reigns. He probably knows everything she would tell him to do backwards and forwards. I'm talking about what her absence would do to him psychologically. Some guys do worse with a better trainer because they just don't gel right. Like Jermain Taylor and Emmanuel Steward. Does anyone think Manny wasn't better than the trainer Taylor went back to? Kirkland has a deep respect with Wolfe that probably wouldn't be there the same way with a new trainer and he wouldn't train right and wouldn't respond the way a new trainer would want him to.Quote:
Originally Posted by killersheepI think Sergio Martinez would pick apart and decimate Kirkland, I'm excited with the influx of good fighters emerging at 154. I understand what you are saying about a new trainer, but don't you feel Kirkland has learned what he can from Wolfe?Quote:
Originally Posted by KillfaceI think his stamina is typically good, but not for this fight. He needs to keep Wolfe. Just like with Jermain Taylor, you could bring in a better trainer and get a worse result. He and Wolfe are very close, like siblings and I think far more harm would be done to his progress if she weren't around. Bring in someone who knows what she doesn't to teach him and I guarantee you the Junior Middleweight division will have a monster on its hands. And then the Middleweight division.Quote:
Originally Posted by killersheep
If Kirkland had to switch trainers the one person I can think of who could make it work is Floyd Mayweather Sr. Now I'm not saying it would work out, but the best chance for success would be there. Also, Sr. as his trainer would probably be the most likely to explode. Mayweather would shore up his defense and that mouth would be running non-stop until Kirkland heard it in his sleep. There wouldn't be any way for him to forget his fundamentals. The problem would lie in Kirkland being able to set his ego aside to do what he's told, but I don't know how problematic that would be for a guy who trains by chasing a heavybag attached to a moving truck or wrestling out of the grip of several guys in the ring.
Your point (and Trainer Monkey's) about keeping Wolfe as a trainer are well taken and I have been convinced by them. That being said, I still believe he is at a point in his skill level where he is on the verge of being phenomenal and with Wolfe alone he won't be able to get over the line.Quote:
Originally Posted by Killface
And I more or less agreed with it,they need a second in the corner to keep the kid focused on doing his work in thereQuote:
Originally Posted by killersheepYour point (and Trainer Monkey's) about keeping Wolfe as a trainer are well taken and I have been convinced by them. That being said, I still believe he is at a point in his skill level where he is on the verge of being phenomenal and with Wolfe alone he won't be able to get over the line.Quote:
Originally Posted by Killface
Kirkland got determination, speed and power but careless sometimes. His work rate is good but needs improvement on defensive side.Fighters like Angulo will give him some problems if he doesn't improve on his defense.
Guys, I think for once we're all in agreement with one another. Any motions to close this thread?
I think he had a good learning curve against Vera. We know that hes very fast and powerful, he showed that against Vera, but if he fights against somebody like Vera who i add was limited he found problems. Vera no doubt had a good chin, and his defence was weak. At times when he applied combinations I think that got Kirkland in trouble, im thinking in terms of a decent fighter at 154-160 ie Paul Williams he will get beaten.
Kirkland cant go all out for the ko every second of every round and maybe because it has worked for him in the past its going to be hard for him to change this. Vera proved that he will gas out in the later rounds, a fighter like williams would be able to take what he has and finish him off. Kirkland needs to box more and think about his shots more than simply just throwing them at a very high tempo.
No doubt Kirkland is a very good prospect, but I just cant see him being able to use his tactics in the championship level. If he makes a few changes, we will see him champion late 09 IMO.
He's a good prospect with a few slight changes he could be alot better! every exciting fighter to watch.