Margarito-Mosley isn't quite the right matchup to be for the RING belt
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When I saw your title, I thought the WBA was claiming that. Not sure why Ring doesn't think AM is champ? Floyd retired & Paul's @ 154. AM beat Cotto so if anyone wants to be top WW, they go through AM.
A little slant on you title there Lance, you must be a politician or a salesman ;D
Anyways, as much as I dislike the WBA, their belt is one of the major ones and Tony is the recognised champion by most observers. Is it just me or does the Ring rankings seem a little off in recent months?
Its a championship high calibur fight and Tony should be ranked as The Ring Champion.Smells of politics and splitting hairs on The Rings part......Also "what if Williams decides to drop back down to 147,Where would he fit in"...WTF is that:bucktooth:.So we leave divisions in limbo now,doors ajar,even though He has claimed a title at a higher division.Becoming a trend??
To me it's since Golden Boy took over.Quote:
Originally Posted by Boom Boom
Then again I agree that this shouldn't be for the RING belt. To me Berto, Marg, and Williams if he decides to move back down should battle this out and now with Pac up there making waves and all the talk of a Mayweather comeback on the cards there is going to be a lot of competition for the REAL CHAMP.
Another factor is that Cotto could well come back in the New year and get a rematch with Marg and beat him. My point is I don't see the WW division clearing up any time soon but if I was to make my own top 5 and champ ranking it would be as follows:
Champ-Vacant
No.1- Williams (asuming he moves back down for a major fight)
No.2- Margarito
No.3- Berto
No.4- Cotto
No.5- Clottey
And then with Pac and Floyd most definitley breaking into it should Pac decide to stay there and Mayweather decide to comeback.
I dont know about Berto being among st the top 5 tier?A bit high at 3 but to each their own....Based on what exactly?Massive potential but alot yet to be realized I feel.Collazo is a good start though not exactly in the top 5 himself.Cotto might be a question mark...need to see what he comes back with and how.Quote:
Originally Posted by rjj tszyuTo me it's since Golden Boy took over.Quote:
Originally Posted by Boom Boom
Then again I agree that this shouldn't be for the RING belt. To me Berto, Marg, and Williams if he decides to move back down should battle this out and now with Pac up there making waves and all the talk of a Mayweather comeback on the cards there is going to be a lot of competition for the REAL CHAMP.
Another factor is that Cotto could well come back in the New year and get a rematch with Marg and beat him. My point is I don't see the WW division clearing up any time soon but if I was to make my own top 5 and champ ranking it would be as follows:
Champ-Vacant
No.1- Williams (assuming he moves back down for a major fight)
No.2- Margarito
No.3- Berto
No.4- Cotto
No.5- Clottey
And then with Pac and Floyd most definitley breaking into it should Pac decide to stay there and Mayweather decide to comeback.
I may sound repetitive but I really think Williams is not returning to 147,the only considerable draw for him there is Margarito and Tony has two biggies lined up in Mosley & Cotto rematch,should all go according to plan.I can see him being lured up to Middle even.
I think the dye has been cast for Mayweather/Pac and they will steer away from the other Welters.On a collision coarse with Pac needing to get passed Hatton....no Gimme by any means.....and Mayweather waiting in the wings.I will eat my boots if he comes back and faces a top guy at 147....Cotto,Margarito,Clottey,etc.
Out of curiosity, what's your reasoning for ranking Berto ahead of Cotto (and to a lesser extent Clottey)? I'm a fan of Berto's, but he's done nothing IMO to be ranked ahead of either Cotto or Clottey. I'm not sure I'd have him in the top 5 to be honest.Quote:
Originally Posted by rjj tszyuTo me it's since Golden Boy took over.Quote:
Originally Posted by Boom Boom
Then again I agree that this shouldn't be for the RING belt. To me Berto, Marg, and Williams if he decides to move back down should battle this out and now with Pac up there making waves and all the talk of a Mayweather comeback on the cards there is going to be a lot of competition for the REAL CHAMP.
Another factor is that Cotto could well come back in the New year and get a rematch with Marg and beat him. My point is I don't see the WW division clearing up any time soon but if I was to make my own top 5 and champ ranking it would be as follows:
Champ-Vacant
No.1- Williams (asuming he moves back down for a major fight)
No.2- Margarito
No.3- Berto
No.4- Cotto
No.5- Clottey
And then with Pac and Floyd most definitley breaking into it should Pac decide to stay there and Mayweather decide to comeback.
Basically I have him ahead of Cotto on recent results. I love both guys but I can't help but think about Cotto on his knees after the Marg fight. And he's the unbeaten WBC champ which still does mean something IMO.Quote:
Originally Posted by CFHOut of curiosity, what's your reasoning for ranking Berto ahead of Cotto (and to a lesser extent Clottey)? I'm a fan of Berto's, but he's done nothing IMO to be ranked ahead of either Cotto or Clottey. I'm not sure I'd have him in the top 5 to be honest.Quote:
Originally Posted by rjj tszyuTo me it's since Golden Boy took over.Quote:
Originally Posted by Boom Boom
Then again I agree that this shouldn't be for the RING belt. To me Berto, Marg, and Williams if he decides to move back down should battle this out and now with Pac up there making waves and all the talk of a Mayweather comeback on the cards there is going to be a lot of competition for the REAL CHAMP.
Another factor is that Cotto could well come back in the New year and get a rematch with Marg and beat him. My point is I don't see the WW division clearing up any time soon but if I was to make my own top 5 and champ ranking it would be as follows:
Champ-Vacant
No.1- Williams (asuming he moves back down for a major fight)
No.2- Margarito
No.3- Berto
No.4- Cotto
No.5- Clottey
And then with Pac and Floyd most definitley breaking into it should Pac decide to stay there and Mayweather decide to comeback.
I can see both sides of the coin here.
But the fact remains it ain't for the championship!
Margarito was ranked 4th when he fought Cotto (#1 at the time of the fight) & although he had racked up wins he had still been beaten by Williams who was still at 147 (who says he still isn't? Although his last fight was at 154 IMO Williams/ Margarito 2 is the fight that needs to be made at 147) so win or lose Cotto/ Margarito was not for the championship either way!!!
The reason I feel it shouldn't qualify is that although Margarito defeated the #1 guy (Cotto) & is now fighting the current #3 guy who lost a close decision to the #1 Cotto at the time; should Mosley be victorious it would seem unfair to Cotto to recognise Mosley as champion because Cotto IMO is ranked higher than Mosley due to his win.
Either way with talk of Margarito/ Cotto 2 later next year the championship picture should become clearer.
Just because we feel someone should be champion doesn't mean they are & to follow that logic will only continue the chaos the alphabet idiots have created.
If you beat the #1 guy in the division, you are champion. Period.
Especially if you were the #4.
What about Marquez jumping to one fight at 135 and becoming the Ring Champion?
This is ridiculous hate on Margarito.
Wheres the hate?Quote:
Originally Posted by hardcore_crash
Casamayor was champion & Marquez beat him!!!
Cotto was not champion & Williams had beaten Margarito so why would a Cotto/ Margarito fight be for the championship?
Its ridiculous to think Margarito would be rated ahead of Williams at the time!!!
And for the record if you beat the #1 guy your are not automatically champ, what about the guys ranked 2 & 3 especially if they hold a victory over you?
Marquez did not fight the #1 contender; he fought THE champion. Anytime you beat the champ you become the champ.Quote:
Originally Posted by hardcore_crash
The problem with Margarito is that he beat the #1 contender(Cotto) not the champ. Now Margarito is the the #1 contender. To become THE champ he has to solidify his position with a victory over the #2 contender, who happens to be Cotto due to Paul Williams departure to 154.
So we will likely have to wait until this summer before we have a welter-weight champion again.
The rules are simple and never change. Thus they ensure integrity; unlike the belts-for-sale method, as used by the various alphabet groups.
I was arguing completely out of line.
For some reason I was thinking Cotto had the ring belt:o
Thats why I think the ring belt is stupid. Casa. Was about a decade past his best . He should have lost to Cruz but they gave him the decision. Campbell was the unfied champ after beating Diaz for the belts.
All anyone had to do was beat Casa ( who should have lost to a bum on an undercard ) and they are the ring champ? Casa clearly wasnt the best in the world by the time he fought Marquez.
Not sure this fight should be for the ring title either . Paul Williams vs Tony 2 should be though
The Champion is not always the best in the world; otherwise titles would never change hands.Quote:
Originally Posted by GAME
No matter how many alphabet titles Campbell was paying sanctioning fees to; Casa was champ because he beat the champ.
Now JMM is the champ. He will be the champ until someone beats him.
Campbell will likely loose his titles(or at least some of them) for failing to pay sanctioning fees or failing to fight unworthy fighters who have purchased mandatory positions from the alphabet gangs.
The lightweight division is certainly up in arms at the moment when it comes to all this hoopalajooba. Campbells got all the belts, Marquez beats the man, Manny jumps 2 weights past the division, Guzman moves up and comes in overweight. We've got more talent in there that is chomping at the bit to get high profile fights. (with everyone BUT Campbell of course, who no one wants to fight)
The WW division is fine. We know who the big guys are. And after this year we will know if Berto is ready to take over, or Marg will step up and beat Williams and live up to his name. Just needs time, I think.
How in Sam hill do you have Berto ahead of Cotto and Clottey. That is stupid. Who has he fought??Quote:
Originally Posted by rjj tszyuTo me it's since Golden Boy took over.Quote:
Originally Posted by Boom Boom
Then again I agree that this shouldn't be for the RING belt. To me Berto, Marg, and Williams if he decides to move back down should battle this out and now with Pac up there making waves and all the talk of a Mayweather comeback on the cards there is going to be a lot of competition for the REAL CHAMP.
Another factor is that Cotto could well come back in the New year and get a rematch with Marg and beat him. My point is I don't see the WW division clearing up any time soon but if I was to make my own top 5 and champ ranking it would be as follows:
Champ-Vacant
No.1- Williams (asuming he moves back down for a major fight)
No.2- Margarito
No.3- Berto
No.4- Cotto
No.5- Clottey
And then with Pac and Floyd most definitley breaking into it should Pac decide to stay there and Mayweather decide to comeback.
Exactly Lance, well said. Take James Braddock, Buster Douglas, Floyd Patterson. They weren't the best fighters in the world but they were the champions until defeated in the ring. Its really quite simple!!! History is littered with bad decisions, you don't have to agree with it but not to follow the official decision would be worse than what the alphabet circus has created!Quote:
Originally Posted by Lance UppercutThe Champion is not always the best in the world; otherwise titles would never change hands.Quote:
Originally Posted by GAME
No matter how many alphabet titles Campbell was paying sanctioning fees to; Casa was champ because he beat the champ.
Now JMM is the champ. He will be the champ until someone beats him.
Campbell will likely loose his titles(or at least some of them) for failing to pay sanctioning fees or failing to fight unworthy fighters who have purchased mandatory positions from the alphabet gangs.