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Well the first time I saw it I thought Bute was ok to continue. That was only because I didnt see his eyes when he got up at about 8.5 seconds by my count. If the ref would have stayed right there and looked at his condition I can't say Bute would have been able to respond correctly. Ref had a totally wrong count.
yep, he was gone. Does anybody know if Andrade is getting the rematch ?
Eventhough he was out boxed/judge in most of the fight he would have an psycological advantage :cool: if they meet againg
Just thinking about this fight pisses me off. One of the most obvious instances of corruption that I've seen in Boxing.
If I were Andrade in the rematch I would insist before the fight that the ref watch for excessive holding. I think the fight would have taken on a completely different tone had that not been allowed. Bute would have been kayoed 2-3 rounds sooner.
I think Bute won the fight as the ref indicated...It was close at the end and the ref had to make a split second decision and the outcome is the outcome....
If the ref had stopped the fight I am sure there would have been a contingent that said he should not have stepped in and stopped the fight ala taylor/chavez...........Bute did get up before a count of 10...
In close fights I am not going to sit here and nit pick a decision by the refs, the fighters need to take the fight out of the refs hands, if they dont do that than they cant complain about the decision....
Defiantly do not want to kick this one off again but Did Andrade appear sluggish and weighty to any one else last time out?Needs that unbridled,unrelenting pressure...take even the slightest chance of needing a few more seconds out of the 'officials' hands.Then again,it was all stacked against him in Butes backyard....sort of like going into a knife fight with a spreader knife.
See below.
That's how I feel, by the letter of the law (the IBF championship rules), the ref did the right thing. I really don't understand the outcry about it. The long count doesn't matter because Bute was up before a regular 10 count anyways, and the rules state that if a fighter is KD'd at the end of a fight, with less than 10 seconds remaining, all that has to happen is his gloves must both be off the canvas by a count of ten.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hunter
If thats the case, at the end of the round than it's Bute's win, I was under the impression when you can't be saved by the bell you have to do the normal gloves up walk forward any knockdown even the last 2. seconds.Quote:
Originally Posted by CFHThat's how I feel, by the letter of the law (the IBF championship rules), the ref did the right thing. I really don't understand the outcry about it. The long count doesn't matter because Bute was up before a regular 10 count anyways, and the rules state that if a fighter is KD'd at the end of a fight, with less than 10 seconds remaining, all that has to happen is his gloves must both be off the canvas by a count of ten.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hunter
I'll try and find the rule for you.Quote:
Originally Posted by No ContestIf thats the case, at the end of the round than it's Bute's win, I was under the impression when you can't be saved by the bell you have to do the normal gloves up walk forward any knockdown even the last 2. seconds.Quote:
Originally Posted by CFHThat's how I feel, by the letter of the law (the IBF championship rules), the ref did the right thing. I really don't understand the outcry about it. The long count doesn't matter because Bute was up before a regular 10 count anyways, and the rules state that if a fighter is KD'd at the end of a fight, with less than 10 seconds remaining, all that has to happen is his gloves must both be off the canvas by a count of ten.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hunter
Rule 6:
The bell will not save a boxer in any round of the bout. If a boxer is "downed" just before the 3-minute bell in any round, the referee's count shall continue and the bell will not ring until the boxer rises and his hands clear the floor.
http://www.ibf-usba-boxing.com/userf...ut%20Rules.pdf
As soon as his gloves cleared the floor, the fight was over, regardless of whether or not Bute was able to continue.
And for the record, I was cheering for Andrade. I thought Bute was allowed to hold and foul all fight. However, the actions of the ref at the end of the fight were justified. The long count is immaterial, because Bute's gloves cleared the floor before a normal 10 count would have been completed.
I do think there needs to be a rematch in a neutral location with a different, impartial ref.
I don't know. When I saw the fight I didn't it was that bad, people were saying he got a 23 second count, and all that type of BS, but it wasn't even close to that long, and I am saying this as a person who wanted Andrade to win that fight, Bute is an overrated piece of...
I wouldn't call Bute underrated. I thought he was brilliant with his speed and combinations. My only complaint against him was the excessive holding.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ARs8axyaDz0
Watch here though with 20 seconds left Bute is unable to defend himself, he cannot hold his hands up and clearly cannot stand on his own power.
I've done it 3 times just now on a stopwatch & came out with 9.3 & 9.6 twice. I think the IBF should have declared this a NC. Even ignoring the KD call at the end, the number of times when Wright stays in the way of Andrade after breaking them up, particularly right before the KD when he's in his way for a few seconds (it all ended up counting) & also on Bute's "knockdown", which has to be one of the most obvious shoves I've seen. Anyone know what's happening with that prick Marlon btw?Quote:
Originally Posted by No Contest
Just for anyone who ain't seen 'em, here's Andrade's post-fight press conference, you should also be able to link to Bute's from there.
Part 1: http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=MjMeck...eature=related
Part 2: http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=V1bEMR...eature=related
So you're saying that the fight should have been stopped prior to the knockdown? There's some merit in that argument. I really feel that there needs to be a rematch to clear up all these issues, but I don't think it's going to happen.Quote:
Originally Posted by killersheep
I do feel that, like I said Bute was unable to protect himself and clearly he had zero legs. I really wish Andrade would have unleashed those punches earlier in the fight, could have had a lot to do with the holding Bute was doing. I know I sound like a hater, Bute is a great fighter don't get me wrong, but in this fight he held too much and should have been stopped.Quote:
Originally Posted by CFHSo you're saying that the fight should have been stopped prior to the knockdown? There's some merit in that argument. I really feel that there needs to be a rematch to clear up all these issues, but I don't think it's going to happen.Quote:
Originally Posted by killersheep
Wright was really not doing any favors to Bute either, clean shots when you are tired and unable to react are clearly the most dangerous long term.
Hi mate,Quote:
Originally Posted by CFHThat's how I feel, by the letter of the law (the IBF championship rules), the ref did the right thing. I really don't understand the outcry about it. The long count doesn't matter because Bute was up before a regular 10 count anyways, and the rules state that if a fighter is KD'd at the end of a fight, with less than 10 seconds remaining, all that has to happen is his gloves must both be off the canvas by a count of ten.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hunter
I watch this fight about 3 or 4 times and the final round more than 10 times and I think that the referee had to stop it somewhere between 2’20” – 2’40” of the 12th. Like Killersheep said the referee was not doing any favors to Bute, allowing so much punishment and mostly the last punch it was really crime; and that was happening just a few days after one young Mexican fighter(I forgot his name) died because of a KO.
All the discussions about what were happening after, how long the count was or if Bute was capable to continue after the count, I think are pointless.
I do agree with you that people overreacting and by the letter of the law M.B.R. didn’t do anything completely wrong, I think he just use the regulation and he walk on the edge of it to help Bute but in my eyes Lucian lost this fight. And believe me, I’m a big Bute fan.
I can see the merit in Killer's argument, to be honest I'm not sure how I feel about it though; I can understand both sides of it. It kind of reminds me of the ever-present Chavez - Taylor argument.Quote:
Originally Posted by iwng100Hi mate,Quote:
Originally Posted by CFHThat's how I feel, by the letter of the law (the IBF championship rules), the ref did the right thing. I really don't understand the outcry about it. The long count doesn't matter because Bute was up before a regular 10 count anyways, and the rules state that if a fighter is KD'd at the end of a fight, with less than 10 seconds remaining, all that has to happen is his gloves must both be off the canvas by a count of ten.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hunter
I watch this fight about 3 or 4 times and the final round more than 10 times and I think that the referee had to stop it somewhere between 2’20” – 2’40” of the 12th. Like Killersheep said the referee was not doing any favors to Bute, allowing so much punishment and mostly the last punch it was really crime; and that was happening just a few days after one young Mexican fighter(I forgot his name) died because of a KO.
All the discussions about what were happening after, how long the count was or if Bute was capable to continue after the count, I think are pointless.
I do agree with you that people overreacting and by the letter of the law M.B.R. didn’t do anything completely wrong, I think he just use the regulation and he walk on the edge of it to help Bute but in my eyes Lucian lost this fight. And believe me, I’m a big Bute fan.
As I've said, I feel the reffing was terrible, for whatever reason, and I feel that there should be a rematch in a neutral location with a different ref (obviously). However, confining the argument to the knockdown and what occurred after, I feel my point stands.
I'm not a big Bute fan at all, not sure why. In fact, the only Canadian fighter I really like is Molitor. I guess I'm not much of a nationalist, though if there was ever a decent fighter from B.C. (yeah right), I'm sure I'd cheer for him.
ibf championship rules state:
10. A boxer who has been knocked down cannot be saved by the bell in any round.
So it is the ref's sole discretion whether bute was fit to continue and we all know he was knocked out on his feet.
Yea the fight was over though he got up thats all he had to do but its all at how you look at it if it had gone the other way people would complain just have a rematch and it while be alright and people will know for sure and make sure the ref is not the same guy either because that is why were here in the first place Cut are you one of the guys that thought Taylor decsion was correct because this is the same thing only going the other way if you were not one of those people fine just wondering.
Those same rules also state that if a fighter is knocked down at the end of a round, the bell will ring to end the round once the fighters gloves clear the floor. As the KD occurred in the 12th round, the fight ended as soon as Bute's gloves cleared the canvas, whether or not he could continue at that point is irrelevant because the fight was over.Quote:
Originally Posted by awdleyfuturehalloffamer
I completely agree with all you said in this post, in fact I agree with both of you, which means:Quote:
Originally Posted by CFHThose same rules also state that if a fighter is knocked down at the end of a round, the bell will ring to end the round once the fighters gloves clear the floor. As the KD occurred in the 12th round, the fight ended as soon as Bute's gloves cleared the canvas, whether or not he could continue at that point is irrelevant because the fight was over.Quote:
Originally Posted by awdleyfuturehalloffamer
A boxer who has been knocked down cannot be saved by the bell in any round even in the last round if he doesn’t clear his gloves from the floor (rule #6 about knockdown from the IBF regulation)
but like you I feel my point (the fight would have been stopped before) stands.
I'm not a big Bute fan just because is from Qc. but I became a real boxing fan since I saw him against James Obede Toney even I watch boxing for longtime (see my profile);
and this is a good thing, a lot of people from Qc became boxing fans because of him.
The point is he disappoints because it seems he completely missed the lesson about inside fighting and I guess if boxing would playing on double like tennis, Kessler and his grandma’ would beat off Bute and Andrade (who seems he didn’t improves very much since he fought Mikkel).
I know it’s me who overreact now but I think it’s normal to be exigent with your favorites.
I want like you to see a rematch in a neutral location but I’m not very sure it will occur.
I like bute but i hate marvin b wright. If it wasn't for wright warning andrade every time bute got hurt, then i probably wouldn't have been angry at the ending. Bute was extremely lucky that there was no time left on the clock and andrade was extremely unlucky as to the timing of the knockdown. I have no doubt that andrade will knock out bute if he gets the rematch. Bute is a pretty good boxer, but he cannot handle andrade. Andrade has to step it up earlier next time.