Greatest Cuban Boxers of all time

The Ring Magazine has a list of the 10 greatest professional Cubans, here it is:


1. Kid Gavilan (108-30-5, 28 KOs; 1943-58): Known best for “bolo” punch but beat slew of Hall of Famers.

2. Kid Chocolate (136-10-6, 51 KOs; 1927-38): The first great Cuban champion had it all.

3. Luis Rodriguez (107-13, 49 KOs; 1956-72): The master boxer gave Emile Griffith all he could handle in four fights.

4. Jose Napoles (79-7, 55 KOs; 1958-75): One of the most-dominating and complete fighters of the ‘60s.

5. Sugar Ramos (55-7-4, 40 KOs; 1957-72): Two-time featherweight champion could box and punch.

6. Florentino Fernandez (50-16-1, 43 KOs; 1956-72): Biggest punching Cuban of all-time.

7. Joel Casamayor (36-4-1, 22 KOs; 1996-present): Quietly, but capably built what could be Hall of Famer career.

8. Jose Legra (134-12-4, 49 KOs; 1960-75: Two-time featherweight champion built record primarily in Spain.

9. Benny Paret (35-12-3, 10 KOs; 1954-62): Beat Emile Griffith to win welterweight title but died in third of three meetings with Griffith.

10. Kid Tunero (97-32-16, 37 KOs; 1929-48): Beat such big-name fighters as Ezzard Charles, Ken Overlin and Holman Williams.

I was thinking who would your top ten be from BOTH professional & amateur ranks?

My own list is

1. Teofilo Stevenson

2. Kid Gavilan

3. Luis Rodriguez

4. Mario Kindelan

5. Kid Chocolate

6. Felix Savon

7. Jose Napoles

8. Joel Casamayor

9. Ariel Hernandez

10. Sugar Ramos

There is no freaking way Stevenson is better than Gavilan!!!! At least Kid fought in the PROS!!!!


I agree with the first list....but Savon and Stevenson belong on the list.


People think Savon and Stevenson would be great pros just because they were great amateurs but hell Jorge Luis Gonzales was 6'7 and an awesome amateur fighter, he beat Riddick Bowe AND Lennox Lewis in the amateurs and then went on to be a pro and went 31 (27 KO)- 8 and 7 losses by KO, some of his good losses came at the hands of the all-time greats Cliff Couser, Derek Bryant, Michael Grant, and Ross Purrity.

Jose Napoles

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Originally Posted by Lyle

There is no freaking way Stevenson is better than Gavilan!!!! At least Kid fought in the PROS!!!!


I agree with the first list....but Savon and Stevenson belong on the list.


People think Savon and Stevenson would be great pros just because they were great amateurs but hell Jorge Luis Gonzales was 6'7 and an awesome amateur fighter, he beat Riddick Bowe AND Lennox Lewis in the amateurs and then went on to be a pro and went 31 (27 KO)- 8 and 7 losses by KO, some of his good losses came at the hands of the all-time greats Cliff Couser, Derek Bryant, Michael Grant, and Ross Purrity.

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I've seen more of Stevenson than Gavilan, and from what I saw I thought he was marginally better, although obviously its quite subjective because of the difference in amateur & professional class. Also I think the amateurs I have included were guys who would have been very successful professionals

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Originally Posted by THE THIRD MAN

Jose Napoles

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Good call

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=imPJLHLt5EM

My 600th and last post for a while:


Many writers claim they watched Monday and Friday night fights "with their dads," but if they did, they better be my age. I recently noted one renowned writer as claiming he grew up watching Friday Night Fights. That's baloney. He wasn't even born.


Back in 1949, we had a pitifully tiny TV set on which my Dad and I (and some of my friends) would watch different programs, but the one that we enjoyed the most were the fights. They were televised from New York or Chicago and names like Madison Square Gardens, St Nicholas Arena or Marigold Gardens were commonplace. Some programs aired boxing matches on Monday. By far the most popular was "Gillette's Cavalcade of Sports," spotlighting the "Friday Night Fights" from Madison Square Garden.. The Cavalcade lasted until 1960, a 14-year period which was the longest continuous run of any boxing program in television history. The show's theme song was the "Look Sharp/Be Sharp March by Mahlon Merrick and we would always chime in with Sharpie the Parrot who would squawk, "Look sharp! Feel sharp! Be Sharp! With Gillette razor blades before the fights were telecast. The bell would sound and Jimmy Powers at ringside would announce, "Friday night fights are on the air!"


There was one guy who seemed to be the exemplar for this great period. Oh, he had an alias; namely, "The Cuban Hawk," but everyone knew him as Kid Gavilan. In 1951, Sugar Ray Robinson moved to middleweight and Johnny Bratton captured the welterweight title. He defended against The Kid in 1951 and was defeated The Kid, who was Cuba's loss and America's gain, went on to make seven successful title defenses until losing to Johnny Saxton in one of the worst decisions in boxing history.


The synopsis in The International Boxing Hall of Fame (in which The Kid was inducted in 1990) states, in part: "Gavilan is the man credited with inventing the bolo punch. He said the punch, which was half hook and half uppercut, was developed by years spent cutting sugar cane with a machete in his native Cuba." While not a fight ender, it produced ooohs and aaahs and impressed judges throughout the world.


He had a record of 107 wins, 30 losses and 6 draws, with one no contest and 27 wins by knockout in a career that spanned 143 professional fights. But the thing that stands out is that The Kid was one of the few high profile boxers in history who was never stopped. Yes, in 143 professional fights, he never lost by stoppage. He also possessed great stamina.


Two of his more notable wins came against college graduate Chuck Davey, 37-0-2 at the time and the darling of the white collar set. Gavilan proceeded to destroy Chuck decking him 4 times before the televised slaughter was stopped. He would later beat Davey's point counterpoint Chico Vejar, who was a big blue collar favorite back in the 50's.

If you throw a dart at the list of his opponents, you would come up with such names as ultra rugged Eduardo "Zerdo" Lausse, Garth The Toy Bulldog" Panter,Rocky Castellani, Tony Janiro, Frenchman Robert Villemain, and the great Beau Jack.


The Kid fought in 15 different states and D.C. and in 10 different countries. He was an attraction in just about every great venue in the world. These included Madison Square Garden, Convention Hall in Philadelphia, Olympic Auditorium in LA, The Chicago Stadium, The Boston Garden, The War Memorial Auditorium in Syracuse, and Miami Stadium, As well, he fought numerous times in Luna Park in Buenos Aires, Palais des Sports in Paris, Arena Coliseo in Mexico City, and of course the Palacio de los Deportes in Havana.


He was 26-2 when he fought for the first time in the U.S. in November 1946. He would go on to fight until 1958. During that time, he thrilled boxing fans throughout the world with his stylish skills and ability to go the distance.


These days, when I think of Cuban boxing, I think of Felix Savon and Teafilo Stevenson and what could have been. I think of "Kid" Chocolate, "Feo" Rodriguez, 'Sugar" Ramos and Jose "Mantequiila" Napoles. But most of all I think of Kid Gavilan's bolo punch and the flash and daring with which he launched it.

There will be only one "Kid."

Awesome post holmcall and after much searching I found your old Cavalcade of Sports theme music....I hope it's right, never mind the penguins in it though

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKOcq0V2kC0

I say Guillermo Rigondeaux is the best.

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Originally Posted by Lyle

Awesome post holmcall and after much searching I found your old Cavalcade of Sports theme music....I hope it's right, never mind the penguins in it though

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKOcq0V2kC0

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Thanks, man. That brought tears to my eyes and I'm not kidding!:appl:

Ceferino Garcia is commonly referred to as the inventor of the bolo punch. Though a Filipino boxer named Macario Flores was alos reported to be using the punch in 1924.

Either way, Garcia and The Kid were the best proponents of it. Sugar Ray Leonard also used it at times.

The Cubans are a great and proud boxing nation ........ just because they didn't go pro doesn't mean that the fantastic 'amateurs' they had would not have made it there. Great fighters adapt to different rules (and anyway, comparing someone like Kid Chocolate to Mantequilla Napoles, what with all the changes in glover etc is not far off comparing pro's and ams in terms of how different the sport was)

I thought Stevenson was awesome, and I think he could have competed with Ali at the time.

The fighter I mentioned Guillermo Rigondeaux, would make Rafael Marquez, Vazquez, and JML look silly in the ring. It's a shame he was caught defecting, and the government has threatened his family to such an extent he would never risk leaving now. They didn't care that much about Gamboa, Solis, Batherlemey(or whatever his name), or even Erislandy, but They really did about Rigondeaux, because he was on his way to 4 olympic golds had he not tried to defect, he basically never lost, he was of the same athletic quality as Gamboa, but fought more like a Pernell Whitaker with lots of movement. I guarantee he would not have the troubles Gamboa has had in the pros this guy has unbelievable defensive skills, much better timing, and hits harder.

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Originally Posted by holmcall

Ceferino Garcia is commonly referred to as the inventor of the bolo punch. Though a Filipino boxer named Macario Flores was alos reported to be using the punch in 1924.

Either way, Garcia and The Kid were the best proponents of it. Sugar Ray Leonard also used it at times.

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Nice to add Ceferino Garcia, to the genesis of the bolo punch. I'm sure you'd get a wink and a thumbs up, from the guy in spirit!


As for the Greatest Cuban fighter, personally for me it would be Teofilo Stevenson. The guy had a lethal right cross, or overhand right. It is as terminal as a "lethal injection".

I will credit Stevenson's punches, especially the overhand right, as one with the most "delayed reactionary" KO's results ever IMHO.

I did not see him turn pro tho'. I think at that time for him to do so, he would have to defect and leave Cuba, which did not fit his plans for his perceived greatness!

Stevenson was born in Jamaica if I am not correct. Makes for an interesting discussion, but I'm not going there.

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Originally Posted by holmcall

Stevenson was born in Jamaica if I am not correct. Makes for an interesting discussion, but I'm not going there.

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Looked it up & yes he was Cuban, although his parents were immigrants from other Caribbean countries.

Taeth, I was considering putting Rigondeaux in, simply because he is one of those I have actually seen a lot of in my lifetime, but decided against it because I knew I would get stick for the amateurs I had as it is, but for me it was close between him & Ramos.

On the discussion about Cubans staying in Cuba, I have to say as much as I would have loved to see some of these guys go pro, I have to say I admire the patriotism of some of their fighters. I think particularly of Savon's comments after Don King's $10m offer to him. Anyway I'll leave that topic alone before it gets turned into some debate about Cuba's politics ;)

Someone used Mario Kindelan, even though he was a great amateur, maybe the second best ever, he still wasn't as good as Rigondeaux. I don't think you should get any problems putting Rigondeaux up there, I still think based on his record, based on the fact he almost undefeated even against Cuban fighters that he should be one of the best boxers to have ever laced up, its easy to see after watching him fight. He's impossibly fluid, a Roy JOnes Jr type counter puncher, who can do it all.

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Originally Posted by holmcall

Stevenson was born in Jamaica if I am not correct. Makes for an interesting discussion, but I'm not going there.

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hHHMM. I am not correct! :-X :banghead:

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Originally Posted by Taeth

Someone used Mario Kindelan, even though he was a great amateur, maybe the second best ever, he still wasn't as good as Rigondeaux. I don't think you should get any problems putting Rigondeaux up there, I still think based on his record, based on the fact he almost undefeated even against Cuban fighters that he should be one of the best boxers to have ever laced up, its easy to see after watching him fight. He's impossibly fluid, a Roy JOnes Jr type counter puncher, who can do it all.

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Yeah I went for both Kindelan & Hernandez as better than him, although I admit this may be that when I was watching all of them (which was when I was a teenager) I tended to be more interested in watching the fighters at higher weights & was more impressed, although I did remember the Rigondeaux as 'the really good little guy with a long name'. It was only really the last Olympics that I started watching fighters below Lightweight with any real interest so this may be why I don't rate him as high as you.

Also I'm just wondering if you saw Kindelan's final fight with Khan, one of the most blatant set-ups that I've ever seen in giving the fight to Khan so as to set him up nicely for the pros :mad:

Id go with Kid Chocolate.

I've seen it, but I've seen more of 2000 and 2004 olympics Kindelan, and he isn't in Rigondeaux league, he is slower, less skilled as counter puncher, less p4p power, less movement.

I am not sure when you were a teenager, but Guillermo was 19 when he won his first gold medal in Sidney, and he wasn't well known then, but in 2004 he dominated everyone he fought, and won gold easily. Except for 2 loses when he was 17 and 1 loss when he was 18, he only lost once over the next 6 years until he wasn't allowed to box anymore.

RIgondeaux developped, faster, lost less,

Here are Kindelan's accomplishments

• 1998 World Cup Champion
• 1999 Pan-American Games Champion
• 1999 World Champion
• 2000 Olympic Gold Medalist
• 2001 World Champion
• 2003 World Champion
• 2003 Pan-American Games Champion
• 2004 Olympic Gold Medalist

Here are Rigondeaux's career:

Batamweight national amateur champion from 2000-2006
World champion (01, 02, 05)
World cup champ(02, 05)
Panam champ(03)
Central American games gold medalist (06)
Nations Cup cahmpion (06)
2000 and 2004 gold medalist in the Olympics.

The biggest difference is that Kindelan was born in 71 and Rigondeaux was born in 1980, yet they competed in the two same olympics, they both were dominant around the same time, but Kindelan wasn't as good at such an early age. Rigondeaux was only 25 when he career was finished, Kindelan was 34, yet Rigondeaux won more international competitions, won just as many gold medals in the Olympics(could have won 4 by the time he got to Kindelan's age). Lost way less.

Just watch this at 4:39
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DXdDhg9lr4k

Hernandez was good, but he can't compare to either of these two in accomplishments or just purely in terms of skill.

Are you sure Florentino Fernandez was a bigger puncher than Savon who ko'ed both Tua and Brewster with amateur gear on? I think it would be an honest competition between those two of who punched harder.

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Originally Posted by Taeth

Are you sure Florentino Fernandez was a bigger puncher than Savon who ko'ed both Tua and Brewster with amateur gear on? I think it would be an honest competition between those two of who punched harder.

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The first list is The Ring's list of 10 best pro Cubans. The second list is my own.

Checked that clip of Rigondeaux & all i can say is wow. I must have missed a lot of him during those Olympics, I thought I saw a fair bit of him 2004, but I must have missed that, like I said I was 18 & probably more focused on drinkin and/or sex @ the time. I know I saw him in the final & I was impressed, but I'm gonna have to look for more of him. Safe 4 that ;D

I would have it the same minus Tunero since I'm not familiar with him...
Instead of him I'd have Isaac Logart.

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Originally Posted by CutMeMick

It's gotta be Kid Gavilan at #1.

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Yeah. Casamayor second

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Originally Posted by JazMerkin

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Originally Posted by Lyle

There is no freaking way Stevenson is better than Gavilan!!!! At least Kid fought in the PROS!!!!


I agree with the first list....but Savon and Stevenson belong on the list.


People think Savon and Stevenson would be great pros just because they were great amateurs but hell Jorge Luis Gonzales was 6'7 and an awesome amateur fighter, he beat Riddick Bowe AND Lennox Lewis in the amateurs and then went on to be a pro and went 31 (27 KO)- 8 and 7 losses by KO, some of his good losses came at the hands of the all-time greats Cliff Couser, Derek Bryant, Michael Grant, and Ross Purrity.

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I've seen more of Stevenson than Gavilan, and from what I saw I thought he was marginally better, although obviously its quite subjective because of the difference in amateur & professional class. Also I think the amateurs I have included were guys who would have been very successful professionals

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I know that ! because Gaviilan had more heart and balls than Stevenson ,he was also better boxing
Stevenson had only one big problem : he was a coward

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Originally Posted by Taeth

Are you sure Florentino Fernandez was a bigger puncher than Savon who ko'ed both Tua and Brewster with amateur gear on? I think it would be an honest competition between those two of who punched harder.

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Hey man I saw Florentino boxing , you didn't ,he was able to KO a guy with any hand and a KO that doctors had to go and help the guy

The Cuban boxing tradition is a testament to how good fighters can get if you let them fight each other. If you look at the brackets for the Playa Giron and how often the top guys fought each other, you understand why they are so good. The communist system gets too much credit for their success, they had a professional boxing tradition before Castro outlawed professional boxing. It's true that some of their amateur success came because they were men against boys but the truth of the matter is, when they come here and turn professional, guys are not lining up to fight them. When you fight in Florida, the fans come out to support their guys. It will be interesting to see if this generation of defecting Cuban fighters trains another competitive generation of Cubans in south Florida.