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I just picked up a copy of Boxing Monthly and David Haye is ranked 4th in the world at Heavyweight
1. Wlad
2. Vitali
3. Chagaev
4. Haye
5. Valuev
6. Ibragimov
7. Peter
8. Provetkin
9. Ruiz
10. JC Gomez
How can you have 2 fights and be ranked 4th I think he has done a good job getting his name about and getting the fight with Wlad, but no way can he be ranked this high after a fight with Barret
What do you think?
I think he gets a lot of credit being the unified cruiserweight champ, but its to make him look like a more viable opponent on paper for Klitschko... I am surprised that Don King isn't his promoter, King always had a way of fixing those rankings with all his connections.
Boxing Monthly's a good magazine but maybe favor Haye because he's Brittish, personally I don't think he's a top 10 heavy yet but he is by far the most exciting heavy out there, if the Wlad fight doesn't come off and he beats a top guy instead then I'd have him in there.
They're a good magazine, I'm subscribed to them.
They sometimes let their hearts rule their heads though, They'll have him up that high because of potential, not achievement at the weight.
Im betting Monte Barret never imagined he carried so much clout:-XThey seem to take his Cruiser accomplishments into full consideration.
A unified champ moving up would be considered top ten in every other division. Take into account that the Heavyweight division is so woeful and I think he deserves that ranking. I think people look at the rating of a Heavyweight fighter as if it was 20 years ago.
That's for sure:DQuote:
Originally Posted by Spicoli surfs 'Nawlins
Thats a really good point!Quote:
Originally Posted by bzkfn
Thanks bud. I understand alot of the hate towards Haye. He's a cocky guy who thinks alot about his image and has engineered his shot well. But the guy doesn't duck anyone. 4th might be a lil steep in the rankings, but he's inside the top 10 no doubt for me.Quote:
Originally Posted by KelThats a really good point!Quote:
Originally Posted by bzkfn
He is ranked 4th. I understand 10th. But let me ask this (and I don't know the answer): was Evander Holyfield ranked in the top ten when he moved up to heavyweight as a unified cruiserweight champion?Quote:
Originally Posted by KelThats a really good point!Quote:
Originally Posted by bzkfn
Key word there is Crusierweight!!!!!...Sure we see how guys from lower divisions get thrsut into title bouts in higer weight classes because of the former title status but to actually rank them :confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by Taeth
Almost freaking blasphemy
Has nothing to do with that....Basically it says F*** YOU to the guys who fight through the ranks to earn their spotQuote:
Originally Posted by bzkfnThanks bud. I understand alot of the hate towards Haye. He's a cocky guy who thinks alot about his image and has engineered his shot well. But the guy doesn't duck anyone. 4th might be a lil steep in the rankings, but he's inside the top 10 no doubt for me.Quote:
Originally Posted by KelThats a really good point!Quote:
Originally Posted by bzkfn
Imagine if you are the 5th ranked guy in the division and have been at it fighting everyone willing to fight and have been improving each time out training hard and paying your dues...all of a sudden you are under a guy who just stopped in from somewhere else
I don't know where he was ranked bud, it was a much stronger division back then though.Quote:
Originally Posted by RantcatratHe is ranked 4th. I understand 10th. But let me ask this (and I don't know the answer): was Evander Holyfield ranked in the top ten when he moved up to heavyweight as a unified cruiserweight champion?Quote:
Originally Posted by KelThats a really good point!Quote:
Originally Posted by bzkfn
I think it's a crime that he's rated over Peter, who's been fighting at HW from the beginning. But it's hard to argue for anyone else who's below Haye. It just emphasizes the sorry state of the HW division.Quote:
Originally Posted by sonny78
Was it?Quote:
Originally Posted by KelI don't know where he was ranked bud, it was a much stronger division back then though.Quote:
Originally Posted by RantcatratHe is ranked 4th. I understand 10th. But let me ask this (and I don't know the answer): was Evander Holyfield ranked in the top ten when he moved up to heavyweight as a unified cruiserweight champion?Quote:
Originally Posted by Kel
How strong was the cruiserweight division when Haye was unified champ?
Again, I understand Haye ranked around 10th. But 4th means he is ranked above established heavyweights like Peters, Ibragimov, Valuev, and Povetkin?
The Heavy and the Cruiser were stronger divisions back then. The Cruiser division is/was 'ok' when Haye unified.Quote:
Originally Posted by RantcatratWas it?Quote:
Originally Posted by KelI don't know where he was ranked bud, it was a much stronger division back then though.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rantcatrat
How strong was the cruiserweight division when Haye was unified champ?
Again, I understand Haye ranked around 10th. But 4th means he is ranked above established heavyweights like Peters, Ibragimov, Valuev, and Povetkin?
It's just an indication of how crap the division is.
If it was overflowing with talent Haye wouldn't get a mention yet. But clearly that's not the case.
Plus Valuev is ranked five - the guy that lost to 67-year-old Evander Holyfield in the most boring fight in history. Says it all.
Sorry but remind me who this guy in the heavyweight division again?Quote:
Originally Posted by DaxxKahnHas nothing to do with that....Basically it says F*** YOU to the guys who fight through the ranks to earn their spotQuote:
Originally Posted by bzkfnThanks bud. I understand alot of the hate towards Haye. He's a cocky guy who thinks alot about his image and has engineered his shot well. But the guy doesn't duck anyone. 4th might be a lil steep in the rankings, but he's inside the top 10 no doubt for me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kel
Imagine if you are the 5th ranked guy in the division and have been at it fighting everyone willing to fight and have been improving each time out training hard and paying your dues...all of a sudden you are under a guy who just stopped in from somewhere else
First off the rankings referred to here are Boxing Monthly's a UK magazine and therefore utterly meaningless in the scheme of things so no top 5 contender is going to feel disgruntles. Secondly, if you are referring to the real alphabet rankings, since when whey they based on merit? It's which promoter is paying them which fees for them to rank you, simple as.
Aside from that I agree with bzkfn, Haye was the unified cruiserweight champ. If it was any other division and the two time unified champ moved it would be seen as a bizarre omission not to have him in the rankings once he had fought and won at a higher weight class.
Barrett fought a world title only a little over a year ago and was rated in the top 10 by one organisation when Haye fought so Haye knocking him out in style along with his cruiserweight credentials means he is deserving of a top ten ranking.
Maybe not top 4 but come on I hate the guy but I'd have a job convincing myself that the likes of Ibragimov, Valuev and Maskaev could beat him. You'd have to fancy Haye to beat all those guys with ease really.
In 1989 before Evander Holyfield become Heavyweight champion, he was rated number 2 at Heavyweight just behind Mike Tyson. And he moved up to Heavyweight at the end of 1988. Hell i just checked and in 1988 with only two fights at Heavyweight in 1988 he was actually the number 1 contender.Quote:
Originally Posted by RantcatratWas it?Quote:
Originally Posted by KelI don't know where he was ranked bud, it was a much stronger division back then though.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rantcatrat
How strong was the cruiserweight division when Haye was unified champ?
Again, I understand Haye ranked around 10th. But 4th means he is ranked above established heavyweights like Peters, Ibragimov, Valuev, and Povetkin?
I remember - albeit vaguely, considering i was about 12 - Holyfield chasing Tyson being the reason he moved up to heavyweight.
Holyfield's critics were saying he had no chance because he was a pumped up lightheavy.
Guess things don't really change that much. ;)
Good researching ICE thats fucking surprising:oQuote:
Originally Posted by ICBIn 1989 before Evander Holyfield become Heavyweight champion, he was rated number 2 at Heavyweight just behind Mike Tyson. And he moved up to Heavyweight at the end of 1988. Hell i just checked and in 1988 with only two fights at Heavyweight in 1988 he was actually the number 1 contender.Quote:
Originally Posted by RantcatratWas it?Quote:
Originally Posted by Kel
How strong was the cruiserweight division when Haye was unified champ?
Again, I understand Haye ranked around 10th. But 4th means he is ranked above established heavyweights like Peters, Ibragimov, Valuev, and Povetkin?
Holyfield Debuted at Heavy vs. Tillis while still reigning as undisputed Cruiser Champion.He vacated World titles in November of 88'Quote:
Originally Posted by RantcatratHe is ranked 4th. I understand 10th. But let me ask this (and I don't know the answer): was Evander Holyfield ranked in the top ten when he moved up to heavyweight as a unified cruiserweight champion?Quote:
Originally Posted by KelThats a really good point!Quote:
Originally Posted by bzkfn
The next month,december 88' he went in against # 4 I.B.F Ranked Pinklon Thomas.Holyfield was ranked #1 by Ring Magazine,not totally sure about world ranking but presumed he took Thomas's spot.In fairness.....Pinklons #4 rank was crap,he had not fought in a year and a half...and that was off a KO loss to Tyson.
Next up in March of 89' he beat Dokes by TKO for the W.B.C continental Americas title...followed by an spectacular howitzer right hand KO of Ranked Adilson Rodriquez for 2nd defense.By the end of the year,he was ranked #1 contender by all three major bodies WBC,IBF,& WBA with Tyson designated as Reigning Champion.
Damn you Buster Douglas:fight:
Quote:
Originally Posted by BilboSorry but remind me who this guy in the heavyweight division again?Quote:
Originally Posted by DaxxKahnHas nothing to do with that....Basically it says F*** YOU to the guys who fight through the ranks to earn their spotQuote:
Originally Posted by bzkfn
Imagine if you are the 5th ranked guy in the division and have been at it fighting everyone willing to fight and have been improving each time out training hard and paying your dues...all of a sudden you are under a guy who just stopped in from somewhere else
First off the rankings referred to here are Boxing Monthly's a UK magazine and therefore utterly meaningless in the scheme of things so no top 5 contender is going to feel disgruntles. Secondly, if you are referring to the real alphabet rankings, since when whey they based on merit? It's which promoter is paying them which fees for them to rank you, simple as.
Aside from that I agree with bzkfn, Haye was the unified cruiserweight champ. If it was any other division and the two time unified champ moved it would be seen as a bizarre omission not to have him in the rankings once he had fought and won at a higher weight class.
Barrett fought a world title only a little over a year ago and was rated in the top 10 by one organisation when Haye fought so Haye knocking him out in style along with his cruiserweight credentials means he is deserving of a top ten ranking.
Maybe not top 4 but come on I hate the guy but I'd have a job convincing myself that the likes of Ibragimov, Valuev and Maskaev could beat him. You'd have to fancy Haye to beat all those guys with ease really.
First off if you had just a bit of thought behind it you would realize the comment was a scenario in general and it matters none on the division, weight class or the fact Haye was the CW champion, fact is he WAS the CRUISERWEIGHT champion
But IF we want to just use the HW rankings we will..
I am sure that if you were lets say Sam Peter who is one fight removed from being a world champion you would be wondering how the hell did this guy get ranked higher then me since he just started a legit campaign at HW 1 fight ago...OR Ibragimov who is also only 1 fight from being a title holder and the last fight was to Wlad...
How about Alexander Dimitrenko who is undefeated or Povetkin who is also undefeated..Maybe you are Valuev who is a belt holder wondering the same thing....
Regardless of your personal opp these guys have put their time in and these guys have fought other top ranked fighters to earn their spot so how is or should I say Haye more worthy of being ranked above them...Ragardless of your personal opp as a fan but in a legit manner..
And Thanks for your attempt on educating me on where Boxing Monthly is..
And as for whether or not Valuev, Ibragimov or Maskaev could or could not beat Haye means zip....Because until he either beats one of them or a fighter of higher caliber in the division it means nothing...
Monte Barrett is a joke of a fighter at this point...
He went on a 3 in a row losing streak..2 by KO...His wins before Haye were a rematch over Causer that he had been ko'd by the fight before and Tye Fields....How does beating that guy merit ranking over a current champion and 2 former title holders 1 fight removed from being champion
The majority of them usually end up going straight into a title bout.Quote:
Originally Posted by DaxxKahnKey word there is Crusierweight!!!!!...Sure we see how guys from lower divisions get thrsut into title bouts in higer weight classes because of the former title status but to actually rank them :confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by Taeth
Almost freaking blasphemy
Number 4 my ass!!! Hell I guess Tomasz Adamek could gain 15 pounds,fight and beat Fabio Eduardo Moli and rank number 5 in the hw division after all he(Tomasz Adamek) is ranked #1 in the cw division
maybe even fight Haye for that number 4 spot while all the other deserving heavyweights line up for a chance at the winner,holy shit!!! maybe one of the deserving heavyweights could even fight for a belt one day.
I have no problem with Haye being ranked high, he was the best at cruiser and moved up.
I doubt we'd be having this conversation if say Cotto moved from 147 to 154 and he got ranked 4.
Its up to one of the so called deserving HW's tp beat him and prove that David doesnt deserve the ranking. I think it'll happen soon enough.
I see two things wrong. Despite Haye being an awesome crusierweight doesn't give him cause to be ranked 4th imho.
Also Chagaev? He hasn't done crap for ages. Valuev should be higher technically.
Wlad
Vitali
^^^ This is right though ;)
It's the same as it ever was...I don't mind where Haye is ranked, I just want Wladimir to get the credit deserved when he clobbers Haye....and he WILL clobber David Haye
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaxxKahnQuote:
Originally Posted by BilboSorry but remind me who this guy in the heavyweight division again?Quote:
Originally Posted by DaxxKahn
First off the rankings referred to here are Boxing Monthly's a UK magazine and therefore utterly meaningless in the scheme of things so no top 5 contender is going to feel disgruntles. Secondly, if you are referring to the real alphabet rankings, since when whey they based on merit? It's which promoter is paying them which fees for them to rank you, simple as.
Aside from that I agree with bzkfn, Haye was the unified cruiserweight champ. If it was any other division and the two time unified champ moved it would be seen as a bizarre omission not to have him in the rankings once he had fought and won at a higher weight class.
Barrett fought a world title only a little over a year ago and was rated in the top 10 by one organisation when Haye fought so Haye knocking him out in style along with his cruiserweight credentials means he is deserving of a top ten ranking.
Maybe not top 4 but come on I hate the guy but I'd have a job convincing myself that the likes of Ibragimov, Valuev and Maskaev could beat him. You'd have to fancy Haye to beat all those guys with ease really.
First off if you had just a bit of thought behind it you would realize the comment was a scenario in general and it matters none on the division, weight class or the fact Haye was the CW champion, fact is he WAS the CRUISERWEIGHT champion
But IF we want to just use the HW rankings we will..
I am sure that if you were lets say Sam Peter who is one fight removed from being a world champion you would be wondering how the hell did this guy get ranked higher then me since he just started a legit campaign at HW 1 fight ago...OR Ibragimov who is also only 1 fight from being a title holder and the last fight was to Wlad...
How about Alexander Dimitrenko who is undefeated or Povetkin who is also undefeated..Maybe you are Valuev who is a belt holder wondering the same thing....
Regardless of your personal opp these guys have put their time in and these guys have fought other top ranked fighters to earn their spot so how is or should I say Haye more worthy of being ranked above them...Ragardless of your personal opp as a fan but in a legit manner..
And Thanks for your attempt on educating me on where Boxing Monthly is..
And as for whether or not Valuev, Ibragimov or Maskaev could or could not beat Haye means zip....Because until he either beats one of them or a fighter of higher caliber in the division it means nothing...
Monte Barrett is a joke of a fighter at this point...
He went on a 3 in a row losing streak..2 by KO...His wins before Haye were a rematch over Causer that he had been ko'd by the fight before and Tye Fields....How does beating that guy merit ranking over a current champion and 2 former title holders 1 fight removed from being champion
Well as I said before it was boxing monthly who ranked him at 4 so it has no significance to the rest of the world so why would Sam Peter care?
But beyond that considering the dismal insipid displays that both Sam Peter and Sultan Ibragimov produced in their last world title 'effort's I'm suprised anybody is trying to justify their inclusion in the top 5 :confused:
You mention Alexander Dimitrenko but who has he beat exactly? Luan Krisniqui and Timo Hoffman hardly make for an outstanding resume, personally I'd rank a two time unified cruiserweight champ above him in a heartbeat. In fact I'd say David Haye in beating Tomasz Bonin and Monty Barrett has already beaten as good opposition AT HEAVYWEIGHT as Dimitrenko, Barret fought for a world title in 07, Krusniqui did in 2005 but has done nothing since.
The only guys that imo should be rated higher than Haye are the Klitschko's, Valuev (because of the belt only), Chagaev and Povetkin. There is nobody else in the weight class who you could consider as being deserving of a place at all, the rest are mostly crap.
I fucking hate David Haye personally but his resume speaks for itself. Jermain Taylor was rated in the Ring top 10 at supermiddleweight before he even fought there, hell I think he was 0-1 even after he lost to Pavlik there and is still in the top 10.
I have no problems with Haye being ranked in the top 10.
I would love Haye to win, and I've even made a case for him having a chance. Deep down I know there is a 90% chance he gets knocked out.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyle
Ring Magazine has Pac rated #2 at 135 after 1 fight and he is ranked #5 at Welter after 1 fight against a guy who hadnt fought there in 10 years..
Mind you 147 is arguably the hottest division and guys like Berto(Title Holder) and Collazo(solid contender) are snubbed for some guy who fought a freeze dried DLH who himself wasnt a ranked Welter.. If thats not a mockery I dont know what is
Haye unified a division in electric fashion moved up to Boxings weakest division.. fought 2 fights and is ranked #4 by someone, I'll take that over the Pac BS anyday of the week
Spot on JT.Quote:
Originally Posted by JT Rock
Haye has beat a top 15 ranked heavyweight (Bonin, WBC number 11) and a top ten ranked heavyweight (Barret, WBO number 4). Along with his domination of the cruiserweights he deserves the ranking
A lot of people forget also the Monte Barret fight was a WBC eliminator.
It probably has more to do with his upcoming fight than what he's done. There's so much wrong with this list aside from that, though. Sultan Ibragimov hasn't fought in almost a year since he lost but he's higher than an undefeated Povetkin who is on deck for a championship bout. Gomez is at the bottom, but he hasn't lost in 4 years but he's below Peter who just got dominated. The rest of the list after Chagaev is garbage.Quote:
Originally Posted by sonny78
i have no poroblem with him being rated number 4 think he should be number 3 really:o
Dismal displays or not they are still 1 fight from being champions...If a champion puts on a poor performance in a defense could the #1 ranked challenger be ahead of them?...Quote:
Originally Posted by BilboQuote:
Originally Posted by DaxxKahnQuote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo
First off if you had just a bit of thought behind it you would realize the comment was a scenario in general and it matters none on the division, weight class or the fact Haye was the CW champion, fact is he WAS the CRUISERWEIGHT champion
But IF we want to just use the HW rankings we will..
I am sure that if you were lets say Sam Peter who is one fight removed from being a world champion you would be wondering how the hell did this guy get ranked higher then me since he just started a legit campaign at HW 1 fight ago...OR Ibragimov who is also only 1 fight from being a title holder and the last fight was to Wlad...
How about Alexander Dimitrenko who is undefeated or Povetkin who is also undefeated..Maybe you are Valuev who is a belt holder wondering the same thing....
Regardless of your personal opp these guys have put their time in and these guys have fought other top ranked fighters to earn their spot so how is or should I say Haye more worthy of being ranked above them...Ragardless of your personal opp as a fan but in a legit manner..
And Thanks for your attempt on educating me on where Boxing Monthly is..
And as for whether or not Valuev, Ibragimov or Maskaev could or could not beat Haye means zip....Because until he either beats one of them or a fighter of higher caliber in the division it means nothing...
Monte Barrett is a joke of a fighter at this point...
He went on a 3 in a row losing streak..2 by KO...His wins before Haye were a rematch over Causer that he had been ko'd by the fight before and Tye Fields....How does beating that guy merit ranking over a current champion and 2 former title holders 1 fight removed from being champion
Well as I said before it was boxing monthly who ranked him at 4 so it has no significance to the rest of the world so why would Sam Peter care?
But beyond that considering the dismal insipid displays that both Sam Peter and Sultan Ibragimov produced in their last world title 'effort's I'm suprised anybody is trying to justify their inclusion in the top 5 :confused:
You mention Alexander Dimitrenko but who has he beat exactly? Luan Krisniqui and Timo Hoffman hardly make for an outstanding resume, personally I'd rank a two time unified cruiserweight champ above him in a heartbeat. In fact I'd say David Haye in beating Tomasz Bonin and Monty Barrett has already beaten as good opposition AT HEAVYWEIGHT as Dimitrenko, Barret fought for a world title in 07, Krusniqui did in 2005 but has done nothing since.
The only guys that imo should be rated higher than Haye are the Klitschko's, Valuev (because of the belt only), Chagaev and Povetkin. There is nobody else in the weight class who you could consider as being deserving of a place at all, the rest are mostly crap.
I fucking hate David Haye personally but his resume speaks for itself. Jermain Taylor was rated in the Ring top 10 at supermiddleweight before he even fought there, hell I think he was 0-1 even after he lost to Pavlik there and is still in the top 10.
I have no problems with Haye being ranked in the top 10.
Regardless of the fact they are only the ratings from Boxing Monthly they are not right, and believe me they are not the only ones who's rankings I think suck, at times IMO the fellows from boxrec should be banned from making rankings.
Put Haye in the top 10 fine just not so high up
Daxx, What are your feelings on Pac being ranked high at 135,147 by ring magazine after 1 fight at each weight
Personally i think its fukkin retarded to have pacman at 147. Because he beat Oscar at 147 who didnt fight at that weight since he beat Gatti?? Im starting to think the ring mag ratings are full of shit.Quote:
Originally Posted by JT Rock
I stand by the same opinion, like I said I gave a scenario and it just happened to be in the HW division, This is not the first time this topic has come up on these boards just with different fighters is all and I had the same opinion then..Quote:
Originally Posted by JT Rock
To have Pac ranked at 147 is proposterous..The man has not even campagined there...the DLH fight was more of a catchweight situation then legit WW bout since neither campagins there or was ranked there prior
Complete B.S. IMO. He fought MONTE BARRETT who is an unranked fighter. He has talked nothing but s**t about everyone in this heavyweight division but has yet to fight any of the ranked fighter's.
What were his Pac's opponents ranked at those weights when he fought them? I have to agree, however, to have Pac ranked at 47' is a little bit weird. But, at 135, his first fight was against a belt-holder, albeit the weakest of the lot, but nonetheless a top five-seven ranked fighter. And wasn't Marquez, who Pac beat, already ranked in the top five in that division?Quote:
Originally Posted by JT Rock