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I've been having an interesting conversation with my mate at the gym, about issues making weight for a fight. So basically my question is are fighters more suspect, to brain injuries when they are weight drained ?
Paul Ingle
Gerald McClellan
Duk Koo Kim
All 3 had trouble making weight and all 3 had disasters in the ring, could this be a concidence ? or is there more to this than meets the eye ?
I think staying hydrated is an essential element to keeping function going (should be common sense). I think moreso than anything else it's dehydration that has the effect of making fighters more prone to brain injury. Same day weigh-ins would certainly help this issue.Quote:
Originally Posted by ICB
I dont think there is any conclusive evidence regarding this issue. But you would think that significant weight loss would certainly not be a healthy element in fight preparation. More than that is perhaps conjecture.
it sounds like common sense. Exp. considering your brain has a higher % of water than the rest of your body.
I always thought there should be more of a time span for weigh in's, a fighter should weigh in a week before the fight, and 3 days before the fight.
It would give time to make sure there is an adjustment to the body and assure there are no dehydration issues, I also believe they should not be allowed to step in the ring more then 3 pounds over come fight night.
I don't make 7 figures a year writing the guidlines though so I am sure my opinion counts for zip
I would think yes. But i'm not an expert.. of anything.
Ice, what gym are you a member of?
Why do you think they stopped having weigh ins in the day of the fight?
A dehydrated fighter doesn't perform as well, more chances of getting hit and not coping with the shots as well.... the muscles that absorb the shot and the nervous system don't respond as well.
More importantly the brain is dehydrated of fluid that protects it.
I've only had same day weigh ins, and have had to cut for them...often leaving a hydrating and food fueling window of no more then 3-4 hrs. It sux as it leaves you in a weakened state and at more risk of harm, for reasons previously stated. In ams though, this is the window you get as time is a luxury not afforded us. In the pros it's a different deal..it's your job and livelihood. As well you are more susceptable to harder shots and longer rounds. So IMO...the longer, the better, the safer.
Yeah, in the ABA we get weighed a few hours before fighting, can't really cut weight at all.... make sure I've been to the toliet/not drank to much before hand but etc I think it would be stupid to cut any real weight that close to a bout.
I've been trying to find something, but there seems to be no connecting found as of yet. But malnourishment itself can damage the brain because the brain doesn't can materials it needs to sustain itself. Dehydration is also very bad for the brain hence why people hellucinate among many other things.
I firmly believe it does. Ok Ill just use Andrew since there's plenty of visual evidence on You Tube. Against Dumas he sauna suited to make weight,and he spent most of the fight on the canvas. In his most recent fight,we watched his diet and changed his work outs,and he came in way under weight,but did it in a healthy manner,and quite arguably won the fight,and other then feeling a bit sore, felt fine afterwords
Same thing with Feur,at middleweight she's a little chinny,at her natural weight of super middle,Ive seen her blow off hard shots from strong heavyweights without blinking.
I think so. If your not properly hydrated wouldn't you have less fluid around the brain to protect it?
Yes it does. I think they discuss this sometime ago during WBC convention regarding weight issues of some fighters. Some fighters are abusing their body to make weight. our brain is suspended within skull, which surround it with a protective cushion of fluid. Dehydration causes changes in the volume of fluid and this may increase the likelihood of cuntusion injuries after blows to the head.
I like the next day weigh ins and if I recall correctly it's because of that malnourishment. At least if someone is dehydrating themselves they have a day to get it all together which wasn't the case before.Quote:
Originally Posted by killersheepI think staying hydrated is an essential element to keeping function going (should be common sense). I think moreso than anything else it's dehydration that has the effect of making fighters more prone to brain injury. Same day weigh-ins would certainly help this issue.Quote:
Originally Posted by ICB
I remember an interesting story from a Zahir Raheem fight, which is funny in itself. Remember a couple years ago he told Teddy Atlas it was BS that he couldn't use IVs before a fight after cutting weight and he's right, there should be no rules against IVs which in that state there was. I thought it was interesting I wanted to know more about how IVs are used in boxing and what states or countries allow them and which don't. Never followed up on it.
I don't think there have been any studies actually done specifically on that, but it would be interesting to know. Regardless would lower brain function because water works like a lubricant for a your brain and your body.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kel
------Quote:
'The effects of dehydration on brain volume – preliminary results', International Journal of Sports Medicine 2005; 26:481-485).
In adults, the cranium (the part of the skull that encloses the brain) is a rigid bony vault of fixed size, with a constant volume that is the product of the volume of the brain, the intracranial cerebrospinal fluid (CSF) in a compartment known as the subarachnoid space, and the intra- cranial blood. The brain is suspended within the sub-arachnoid space, which surrounds it with a protective cushion of fluid.
The brain itself contains fluid- filled cavities known as the cerebral ventricles, which communicate with the subarachnoid space.The aim of this pioneering study was to investigate the relationship between dehydration and changes in the volume of the brain and the cerebral ventricles in six healthy male amateur rugby union players.
The subjects underwent magnetic resonance imaging (MRI) scans of the brain before and after a period of exercise designed to cause significant dehydration, while samples of blood and urine were taken before and afterwards to assess the degree of dehydration. One of the subjects (control) undertook a further series of MRI scans to enable the researchers to assess day-to-day fluctuations of brain and ventricular volume in a normally hydrated healthy person.They found that the subjects lost between 2.1% and 2.6% of their body mass from sweating during the exercise. They also found a correlation between the degree of dehydration and the change in ventricular volume, with changes in the latter much larger than those seen in the normally hydrated control subject.
'Changes in the volume of the brain, the intracranial CSF (especially the subarachnoid space) and the intracranial blood may influence the outcome of closed head injuries,' the researchers explain. 'After an impact to the head the brain will travel further within the cranium before it meets the skull if the subarachnoid space is enlarged than in the normally hydrated state. Consequently it will accelerate to higher velocities and this may increase the likelihood of contusion injuries after blows to the head such as those sustained in boxing, football and rugby'.
Although the researchers acknowledge that their study was too small to be definitive, they conclude that dehydration causes changes in the volume of intra-cranial compartments that may put sportsmen and women at increased risk of brain damage from contusion injury (bruising) and internal haemorrhage after head injuries.
'Some sportsmen and women, eg boxers, rugby players and footballers, are especially vulnerable to serious head injuries whilst dehydrated.'
International Journal of Sports Medicine 2005; 26:481-485)
I think I've read this before but I'm not sure, I just copy and pasted that right there but I think I read the full study there before. Anyways even that little bit is interesting, I can't get out of this bold, it's annoying.
I remember I had to cut more weight than I was accustom before the Golden Gloves a few years back. Roughly, 20+ pounds to cut from the start. At weigh ins, I was a little over 1 pound over and I had to cut it in 2 hours. It hurt but I was right on with 5 minutes to spare. I felt so weak and drank a liter of water then when I went to the restroom I almost passed out. I was pale, even though I am black, drained, and knew I was in no shape to fight later that night. I was ready to forfeit my match because I could feel how weak and flat I was. Luckily, I was the only guy to a first round bye. I don't have any doctor's opinion but I know just by feel that your whole body would not be able to withstand normal punishment. I felt like a shell. After the next year I retired because I could tell that after roughly 17 years of cutting weight, in wrestling too, that I was really damaging myself. Now I am 33 and have been retired from competition for 2 years and when I coach and train I feel so strong and burly. I can just bully through punches now and I feel so much stronger even though I weigh barely more than I did between fights. I'm convinced my body is fully recovered now. I advise all my boxers to just cut down to the closest weight to their walk around weight unless its only 1 or 2 pounds down. Going up in down huge amounts of weight is a dangerous gamble. But you have to do it to fight people your size because everybody is doing it. I remember Andre Ward went to the Olympics at roughly his walk around weight and outperformed his team. He was the smallest guy at light heavy but he said he felt much more fluid and durable not cutting weight.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamGB
Spot on and i do know a bit about this subject as i used it in an English essay while at school..
The brain is surrounded by fluid which protects it, if a fighter is badly dehydrated then that same fluid is badly reduced offering far less protction to the brain itself.
It can get to the stage where it's simply brain bashing against the inner skull which will cause damage to the brain or bleeding (Clots).
It is instrumental in loads of cases of fighters in the latter stages of fights collapsing.
Not only are some of these fighters already badly dehydrated before the fights (which they will down litres of water to solve it) they often then go and fight full on wars sweating loads and mainly under the heat of the ring lights etc which is usually the case when a fighter suffers serious brain trauma.
In a weird twist when Benn fought Eubank he was reported to be 6 pounds overweight hours before the weigh in and is said to have ran around in layers and layers of clothing in an underground car park and skipped and shadowboxed in a sauna wearing a few tacksuits.
He went to war that night in a brutal fight but brainwise came out ok but that just sums up Nigel Benn really!
But think of it this way....how many heavyweights simply collapse and suffer lasting brain damage during or shortly after fight...?
Bar a few cases it is nearly always fighters from The Mid to lighter weights who do have to sometimes lose crazy amounts of weight to fight.
Just look at the shell of Oscar that we saw v Pacman;)
Except Oscar wasn't dehydrated. He had worked his weight down to there by all claims. If he did dehydrate, he likely would have put weight on between weigh in and the fight rehydrating....and he didn't.
It wasn't a good game plan, IMO. I think he probably would have been better off fighting if he did cut water. Maybe not good for his long term health, but for that fight. He could have used his natural size to his advantage.