Ok this is heresy but was Ali actually a total knob?

Ok I'm up late watching a rbr commentary of Frazier Ali 2 in which both Ali and Frazier were in the studio providing the commentary.

Ali is a complete douche! Calling the interviewer a white bigot and saying he lost the fight because of racism, e taunts Frazier relentlessly during the show causing Frazier eventually to stand up and square up to Ali who then jumps up and wrestles him to the floor.

Frazier then leaves in disgust but Ali is still there loving the platform he has and talking absolute shit ;D

I don't think any boxer could get away with the crap he did back then and now I'm watching this willing Frazier to knock him the fuck out!

Anyone else ever seen this doc, or have recollections of Ali actually sometimes being a total Mayweatheresque tool?

Im sure he could be a knob when the fancy took him, especially when trying to hype a fight. Calling him Mayweatheresque is a bit much though! I always thought of Ali as quite intelligent. ;D

I disagree with some of Ali's views when it comes down to issues such as race and religion. He seemed quite racist but then you look and see Angelo Dundee in his corner. Ali is awash with contradictions like that. He was very smart, but his actions would oftentimes show him up as a hypocrite. Women should not dress too liberally because it might attract other men, and yet he would cheat on his wife. Hmm.

Ali could come across somewhat arrogant, but he was nothing like Mayweather and his antics were pretty much for the benefit of selling the fight. He was a genius at this which is why he is the most popular sportsman of all time!

Oh yes and the fact he was the greatest too

Sure he could be a prick. He took Frazers handouts when he was suspended and then mocked Frazer to the point of Joe hating him. Selling a fight or not as far as Frazer was concerned Ali went way too far.

When Ali lit the Olympic flame Frazer said he wanted him to fall in, now thats funny ;D

Ali was either very clever and said all of the things he said tongue firmly in cheek, or he was a complete twat who insulted anyone and everyone when the opportunity presented itself, people just assumed it was the witty commentary of an intelligent man and not the words of a thick racist.

its funny because ali in his time at top was not very well liked at all but to really understand the racisim etc u have to place yurself in that period of time when he was coming up and became champion(martin luther kings time malcom x black marches for equality etc)when we look back in time now and c his interviews and comments and antics sure he comes across as a bit of a self centered clown but those were the times back then and too the white heirachy he was a mouthy black who didnt know his place(polishing the white mans superior shoes)and was a great inspirational hero to the black man....especially in that vietnam war era(no viet cong ever called me a nigga haha)he was a symbol of strength intelligence confidence(very cocky)wittyness and articulate for the black people when they needed all that.....long live the self proclaimed greatest
ps he did apologise eventually to fraizer but alwaysaid wat he did was in jest, the reason joe took it so personally was because joe trully liked ali and regarded him as a friend and felt alis antics was not necessary and too over the top

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Originally Posted by deadlypete

its funny because ali in his time at top was not very well liked at all but to really understand the racisim etc u have to place yurself in that period of time when he was coming up and became champion(martin luther kings time malcom x black marches for equality etc)when we look back in time now and c his interviews and comments and antics sure he comes across as a bit of a self centered clown but those were the times back then and too the white heirachy he was a mouthy black who didnt know his place(polishing the white mans superior shoes)and was a great inspirational hero to the black man....especially in that vietnam war era(no viet cong ever called me a nigga haha)he was a symbol of strength intelligence confidence(very cocky)wittyness and articulate for the black people when they needed all that.....long live the self proclaimed greatest
ps he did apologise eventually to fraizer but alwaysaid wat he did was in jest, the reason joe took it so personally was because joe trully liked ali and regarded him as a friend and felt alis antics was not necessary and too over the top

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So that's ok then. I think he went a bit mental when the X brotha's got hold of him.
Ali paved the way for trash talking.
Was it ok for him to say white folks were snakes? Gee ok not all of them but why would he risk getting bit? That's fine, then we're all ok with stating there are black folks and there are niggas?

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Originally Posted by deadlypete

its funny because ali in his time at top was not very well liked at all but to really understand the racisim etc u have to place yurself in that period of time when he was coming up and became champion(martin luther kings time malcom x black marches for equality etc)when we look back in time now and c his interviews and comments and antics sure he comes across as a bit of a self centered clown but those were the times back then and too the white heirachy he was a mouthy black who didnt know his place(polishing the white mans superior shoes)and was a great inspirational hero to the black man....especially in that vietnam war era(no viet cong ever called me a nigga haha)he was a symbol of strength intelligence confidence(very cocky)wittyness and articulate for the black people when they needed all that.....long live the self proclaimed greatest
ps he did apologise eventually to fraizer but alwaysaid wat he did was in jest, the reason joe took it so personally was because joe trully liked ali and regarded him as a friend and felt alis antics was not necessary and too over the top

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Did he? I understood that he sent his son into Frazier's dressing room to say sorry, but never did it in person. May be wrong :-\

Yeah true..infact Frazier is still bitter to this day.
Anyone see the recent Thrilla in Manilla documentary?
Brilliant stuff and i think it was on More4 of one of the channel 4 sister channels.
It still upsets him being called an "Uncle Tom" etc.

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Originally Posted by BIG H

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Originally Posted by deadlypete

its funny because ali in his time at top was not very well liked at all but to really understand the racisim etc u have to place yurself in that period of time when he was coming up and became champion(martin luther kings time malcom x black marches for equality etc)when we look back in time now and c his interviews and comments and antics sure he comes across as a bit of a self centered clown but those were the times back then and too the white heirachy he was a mouthy black who didnt know his place(polishing the white mans superior shoes)and was a great inspirational hero to the black man....especially in that vietnam war era(no viet cong ever called me a nigga haha)he was a symbol of strength intelligence confidence(very cocky)wittyness and articulate for the black people when they needed all that.....long live the self proclaimed greatest
ps he did apologise eventually to fraizer but alwaysaid wat he did was in jest, the reason joe took it so personally was because joe trully liked ali and regarded him as a friend and felt alis antics was not necessary and too over the top

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Did he? I understood that he sent his son into Frazier's dressing room to say sorry, but never did it in person. May be wrong :-\

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Yep H & Smash. Same documentary that I saw. Very good.

He was my idol the Man could do no wrong. But looking back with hindsight it makes you wonder. Joe Louis did just as much for Blacks in the war years than anybody in a qiute way, with Dignity and Respect. As Roy Jones says, people forget.

Ali could be a knob as you put it at times but I think that goes for most people.


At times Ali crossed the line with Fraizer because I dont think Ali 100% knew where the line was.


And yes he was a total hypocrite in a lot of ways.Race Religion women ect.

He always did what his heart said which was could be right or wrong.

The bad I have already mentioned,the good he did not join the US army to be part of an unjust system even though he could have gone and avoided putting his life in danger.
Not many other people would give up what Ali did (world title,popularity,money) and for that he will always have the respect of most of the world.

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

Ok I'm up late watching a rbr commentary of Frazier Ali 2 in which both Ali and Frazier were in the studio providing the commentary.

Ali is a complete douche! Calling the interviewer a white bigot and saying he lost the fight because of racism, e taunts Frazier relentlessly during the show causing Frazier eventually to stand up and square up to Ali who then jumps up and wrestles him to the floor.

Frazier then leaves in disgust but Ali is still there loving the platform he has and talking absolute shit ;D

I don't think any boxer could get away with the crap he did back then and now I'm watching this willing Frazier to knock him the fuck out!

Anyone else ever seen this doc, or have recollections of Ali actually sometimes being a total Mayweatheresque tool?

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As much as I like Ali, I think that's backwards. Ali could be a downright jerk, particularly what he did to Frazier, calling him an Uncle Tom after Joe pretty much underwrote his life. Mayweather's antics are strictly in hyping a fight. I saw him in person and the guy was EXTREMELY humble, talking to fans, staying well past the time the press conference was set to be done to talk to whomever wanted to talk to him. He even signed a glove a Mexican kid brought over to him that Oscar had signed first. If Mayweather had ever been in a position where he needed assistance I just don't see him dogging that person after the fact. After every fight Mayweather has been nothing but gracious regarding his opponent, no matter who said what before the fight. Ali had nasty things to say about a lot of the guys he stepped in the ring with.

yep complete hypocrite (especially regarding women) and a bit of a knob at times as has been said. I always used to take everything tongue in cheek with him.

have to admit looking back though as Scrap says it makes you wonder - especially after the More4 documentary.

Mayweatheresque ?!? No way - that guy is a complete bellend

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Originally Posted by Memphis

Sure he could be a prick. He took Frazers handouts when he was suspended and then mocked Frazer to the point of Joe hating him. Selling a fight or not as far as Frazer was concerned Ali went way too far.

When Ali lit the Olympic flame Frazer said he wanted him to fall in, now thats funny ;D

Ali was either very clever and said all of the things he said tongue firmly in cheek, or he was a complete twat who insulted anyone and everyone when the opportunity presented itself, people just assumed it was the witty commentary of an intelligent man and not the words of a thick racist.

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people also need to keep in mind what time period this was all happening in, a time when you could get hosed down, had attack dogs set loose on you, and beaten down just cause you were black

Both Ali and Robinson were arrogant pricks when they wanted to be. People criticize Mayweather and Roy Jones for being cocky, but Robinson and Ali were just as bad, and in Robinson's case he regularly beat his wife, and cheated on her which is something Ali obviously did as well.

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Originally Posted by Howlin Mad Missy

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Originally Posted by deadlypete

its funny because ali in his time at top was not very well liked at all but to really understand the racisim etc u have to place yurself in that period of time when he was coming up and became champion(martin luther kings time malcom x black marches for equality etc)when we look back in time now and c his interviews and comments and antics sure he comes across as a bit of a self centered clown but those were the times back then and too the white heirachy he was a mouthy black who didnt know his place(polishing the white mans superior shoes)and was a great inspirational hero to the black man....especially in that vietnam war era(no viet cong ever called me a nigga haha)he was a symbol of strength intelligence confidence(very cocky)wittyness and articulate for the black people when they needed all that.....long live the self proclaimed greatest
ps he did apologise eventually to fraizer but alwaysaid wat he did was in jest, the reason joe took it so personally was because joe trully liked ali and regarded him as a friend and felt alis antics was not necessary and too over the top

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So that's ok then. I think he went a bit mental when the X brotha's got hold of him.
Ali paved the way for trash talking.
Was it ok for him to say white folks were snakes? Gee ok not all of them but why would he risk getting bit? That's fine, then we're all ok with stating there are black folks and there are niggas?

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Ali went way too far with Frazier, and was certainly a hypocrite through his womanising.

However people's ideas and opinions are shaped throughout adulthood as well, and I don't believe he should just be brandished a bad person as things are rarely black and white. Deadlypete makes a great point about how blacks were still treated like shit at the time he joined the controversial nation of islam, so I think he has some justification for that action, especially as he has since recognised the errors in Elijah Muhammads treachings.

Like he said in his best quote 'A man who views the world the same at fifty as he did at twenty has wasted thirty years of his life.'

Ali was a complete racist piece of s**t in my mind. Yeah I've seen this documentary as many of other Ali documentaries which play repeatedly.

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

Ok I'm up late watching a rbr commentary of Frazier Ali 2 in which both Ali and Frazier were in the studio providing the commentary.

Ali is a complete douche! Calling the interviewer a white bigot and saying he lost the fight because of racism, e taunts Frazier relentlessly during the show causing Frazier eventually to stand up and square up to Ali who then jumps up and wrestles him to the floor.

Frazier then leaves in disgust but Ali is still there loving the platform he has and talking absolute shit ;D

I don't think any boxer could get away with the crap he did back then and now I'm watching this willing Frazier to knock him the fuck out!

Anyone else ever seen this doc, or have recollections of Ali actually sometimes being a total Mayweatheresque tool?

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Yeah he was a knob; but a knob who was one of the best......So he's got you beat; you're just a knob who can barely breathe without an oxygen tank:tease-new:

He was a character that is for sure.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jnYCTh_DSLM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YGNZS...eature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mpSOO...eature=related

Sure Ali was a arrogant prick, after what they did to him during the Vietnam war was a shame. Still he had no right playing the race card with the interviewer or claiming robbery from the Frazier fight.

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

Ok I'm up late watching a rbr commentary of Frazier Ali 2 in which both Ali and Frazier were in the studio providing the commentary.

Ali is a complete douche! Calling the interviewer a white bigot and saying he lost the fight because of racism, e taunts Frazier relentlessly during the show causing Frazier eventually to stand up and square up to Ali who then jumps up and wrestles him to the floor.

Frazier then leaves in disgust but Ali is still there loving the platform he has and talking absolute shit ;D

I don't think any boxer could get away with the crap he did back then and now I'm watching this willing Frazier to knock him the fuck out!

Anyone else ever seen this doc, or have recollections of Ali actually sometimes being a total Mayweatheresque tool?

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I agree at times he acted over the top...but for me he was a hypocrite more than a Knob!

This was the man who used the 'UNCLE TOM' line against Frazier and turned the public against him after saying he was nearly a white man as a put down,to then go and speak at A KKK meeting!

I don't like Ali as a man..but as a boxer!

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Originally Posted by smashup

Yeah true..infact Frazier is still bitter to this day.
Anyone see the recent Thrilla in Manilla documentary?
Brilliant stuff and i think it was on More4 of one of the channel 4 sister channels.
It still upsets him being called an "Uncle Tom" etc.

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One of, if not the best boxing documentary I have seen. Whether you are an Ali fan or not, its hard to disagree that Frazier came across as the better man during their verbal dispute.

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Originally Posted by Taeth

Both Ali and Robinson were arrogant pricks when they wanted to be. People criticize Mayweather and Roy Jones for being cocky, but Robinson and Ali were just as bad, and in Robinson's case he regularly beat his wife, and cheated on her which is something Ali obviously did as well.

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Mayweather plead no contest to battery, but it wound up being he had to to keep the fight with Gatti. And the woman subsequently admitted he didn't hit her.

And to a previous poster having dogs sicced on you and being hosed down is no excuse to be a racist prig, especially against one of your own. I love Ali, but he was a dick when he wanted to be.

I pretty much agree with everything Killface has said. With the Mayweather thing, most people who meet him off camera say he's a very different person. Richie Woodhall who took a training session at my gym recently said he was shocked at how different he was when meeting him, & how even Ricky Hatton said that PBF post-fight was a guy he could've got on with.

Regarding Ali there is no doubt that he could be a gigantic prick, & the way he treated Frazier particularly was sickening, although it is part of a wider issue regarding skin tone & post-colonial inferences in the black community, however, that's not really an issue for the main board.

However, the thing with Ali is what he meant to black people worldwide. My nan who knows nothing about boxing, would often cite Ali as someone heroic to her children & grandkids as someone 'who fought for us'. I think Ali's attitude & stand against racism inspired a lot of people to feel that they didn't have to just take it. Being half-white as well, I don't agree with the views of the Nation, but I think both Ali & Malcolm X moved away from the Nation & its rhetoric. If anything it was Ali being taken under the wing of Herbert Muhammad rather than Malcolm that led to his views in the 70's. However, it does not take away from what Ali represented, and he remains a hero for many of us who never even saw him fight. The only other sportsmen who I can think of that inspire that kind of international respect & love would be Diego Maradona & Sachin Tendulkar.

Also as radical & offensive as he could be back then he was a very different person, let's face it we all have views that we regret & change as we get older.

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Originally Posted by JazMerkin

Regarding Ali there is no doubt that he could be a gigantic prick, & the way he treated Frazier particularly was sickening, although it is part of a wider issue regarding skin tone & post-colonial inferences in the black community, however, that's not really an issue for the main board.

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That at one point was a huge issue. I don't know so much now, but the funny thing is Ali had it reversed. Kind of like Kennedy calling Nixon a pussy when it came to war.

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Originally Posted by Killface

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Originally Posted by JazMerkin

Regarding Ali there is no doubt that he could be a gigantic prick, & the way he treated Frazier particularly was sickening, although it is part of a wider issue regarding skin tone & post-colonial inferences in the black community, however, that's not really an issue for the main board.

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That at one point was a huge issue. I don't know so much now, but the funny thing is Ali had it reversed. Kind of like Kennedy calling Nixon a pussy when it came to war.

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It definitely remains a big issue, at least in the UK, and I think it's still a bit of an issue in the US judging from a lot of the stuff I've seen about the use of light-skinned girls in hip-hop videos. But, it's a regular heated topic of discussion in the Afro-Caribbean society at my university.

Thats why i wanted frazier to knock his ass out badly! Later on I realized he was just selling the fight, but yeah he was ultra annoying. Prince Naseem has been the only guy since to be near that lvl of annoying.

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Originally Posted by rjj tszyu

Ali could come across somewhat arrogant, but he was nothing like Mayweather and his antics were pretty much for the benefit of selling the fight. He was a genius at this which is why he is the most popular sportsman of all time!

Oh yes and the fact he was the greatest too

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Wonder what fight Ali was trying to sell when he called Joe Louis an Uncle Tom?

I agree Ali was a knob...I dont really understand why everyone is making such a big deal out of him these days...

He refused to fight for his country in the Vietnam war (supposedly for religious reasons) but went through gumars like he was changing his shorts.... I think he and Tyson have alot in common when it comes to women....

I have no respect for the guy..

Agree Ali was a knob but he was also one of greatest boxers of all times

Ali is #1 hw of all time, no question. But IMO he is terribly overrated as a person. When I hear people calling him a hero, putting him up there with real heros like M. Luthor King Jr, I gotta cringe. He was charismatic, but one of the sleaziest, most manipulative sports figures in history.

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

Ok I'm up late watching a rbr commentary of Frazier Ali 2 in which both Ali and Frazier were in the studio providing the commentary.

Ali is a complete douche! Calling the interviewer a white bigot and saying he lost the fight because of racism, e taunts Frazier relentlessly during the show causing Frazier eventually to stand up and square up to Ali who then jumps up and wrestles him to the floor.

Frazier then leaves in disgust but Ali is still there loving the platform he has and talking absolute shit ;D

I don't think any boxer could get away with the crap he did back then and now I'm watching this willing Frazier to knock him the fuck out!

Anyone else ever seen this doc, or have recollections of Ali actually sometimes being a total Mayweatheresque tool?

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Ali was Ali - as cliche' as that may sound. He was that one in a million that could talk huge trash and then step in the ring and back it up. Joe Frazier was his #1 nemisis throughout his career. But I seem to recall Ali almost always made him look like a clown. Ali was very bright and his one liners were classic IMO.

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Originally Posted by DMan37

But I seem to recall Ali almost always made him look like a clown.

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http://www.authenticsportscollectibl.../AAA-75143.jpg

I meant outside the ring in the interviews and weigh ins. Besides, Ali won 2 of the 3 matchups and the most classic one of all. No one would ever have to defend Ali for his ring performance.

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c3...ammad-Ali-.jpg

He could act dumb and hypocritical but some of his one-liners were the most hilarious I've ever heard.

ps. about mayweather - I have watched several small clips of him in the gym by an average passerbyer and he was totally different, actually humble guy. He does it to sell tickets.

The one thing I give Ali that Mayweather doesn't have is charisma. Some guys can say anything and get away with it, Muhammad Ali was one of those men. I think he said a lot of mean things, and was arrogant, but there was smile in the corner of his mouth it was clearly a show. Mayweather is arrogant or whatnot, but it comes off as fake because you know deep down he is insecure, and just wants people to know how great he is. I find Mayweather's situation sad, while Ali made people loving acting that way.

IMO Ali would have worked in a team sport more than Mayweather who has the same personality as Terrell Owens.

So's this

http://www.ibelieveinsanta.co.uk/cam...es/hearsay.jpg

dunno... and dont really care


90% of fighters are usually complete arrogant knobs who think the sun shines out of their arses.

I hate bernard hopkins as a person and thinks his whole character stinks....but i love bernard hopkins the fighter and thats all that matters if you ask me!

Mayweather, insecure? wow :o... alright :-\

Mayweather isnt comparable to Ali in ANY WAY. Ali is the legend of all legends. Mayweather is not anywhere near the same class. Not even close. As far as personality there is absolutely no comparison there either. Ali was chrismatic. He had a likebility about him and he connected with people. He had something about him that is rarely ever seen in a person, a certain spark. When he spoke, we listened. Mayweather can not connect with people because of his upbring and maybe lack of being a free thinker. He doesnt have that charisma. He is not a special person in terms of personality, hes a special person because of his skills in the ring. He didnt have to struggle in a world were racism was prevelant in all aspects of day to day life. I hate even putting their names in the same sentence. Ali is the kind of person that only comes around once in a lifetime. Like him or not, he is his own man and his legcy is cemented in history.