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how would the klitschkos have got on during the late 80s/early 90s era??
Ive asked myself this question many a time and it would of been quite fascinating to of seen.
Lets be perfectly honest here...the heavyweights of yesteryear were far more exciting than either klitschko hence why the whole world would stop whenever the world heavyweight title was up for grabs as opposed to now days when most of the non-boxing public really couldnt give a damn.
But along with that excitement also came recklesness naturally.
Tyson, Lewis, Holmes, Bowe, Holyfield, ruddock, mccall, bruno etc - the sort of guys that always produced excitement but lewis apart never quite with the tactical guile either of the brothers posseses!
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Re: how would the klitschkos have got on during the late 80s/early 90s era??
As much trouble as Wlad had with Ray Mercer I reckon Mercer would have had his way with him back in his prime.
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Re: how would the klitschkos have got on during the late 80s/early 90s era??
I don't necessarily think so, I don't see how prime Mercer would have an easier time getting past that jab. Wlad is much better IMO at using his height than Lennox was who fought more athletically and especially against Mercer failed to really impose his size on Mercer, nor did Lennox tie Mercer up on the inside which Wlad would do everytime Mercer got in close.
I think Vitali would be competitive and probably at the top of any division all the way back. IMO it wasn't just Lennox's age that made the fight so hard for him. Vitali is that good. He's so tall, great chin, good defensive skills, and still pretty athletic. This guy could compete with anyone who's ever fought.
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Re: how would the klitschkos have got on during the late 80s/early 90s era??
Bowe, Lewis, holyfield and Tyson would have chewed them both up and spat them out. I think they probably beat the rest though!
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Re: how would the klitschkos have got on during the late 80s/early 90s era??
Why Bowe? I think Vitali would make him crumple in the wind, I mean Bowe barely had more firepower than Holyfield who is a great fighter, but not a very big heavyweight.
I think Holyfield would have big difficulties with either brother at any point in his career, they are too good against his style of fighting. I think he would chew up Wladimir how he used to fight, but now he doesn't really leave a shorter guy the oppertunity to get anything done. I could see Tyson leaping in and landing on Wlad, but I don't see Holyfield having that explosiveness to reach Wlad who fights so defensively.
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Re: how would the klitschkos have got on during the late 80s/early 90s era??
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Originally Posted by
Taeth
Why Bowe? I think Vitali would make him crumple in the wind, I mean Bowe barely had more firepower than Holyfield who is a great fighter, but not a very big heavyweight.
I think Holyfield would have big difficulties with either brother at any point in his career, they are too good against his style of fighting. I think he would chew up Wladimir how he used to fight, but now he doesn't really leave a shorter guy the oppertunity to get anything done. I could see Tyson leaping in and landing on Wlad, but I don't see Holyfield having that explosiveness to reach Wlad who fights so defensively.
Yeah but look how shite Wlad looks against bums! Holyfield is an ATG. Holyfield would have crushed any version of Wlad in his prime!
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Re: how would the klitschkos have got on during the late 80s/early 90s era??
Wladimir and Vitali would have been OK...I'm not so sure Bowe would have had such an easy time with them. Remember he didn't want to fight Lewis because Lennox wrecked him in the amateurs.
Bowe was an exciting fighter because he gave up his height and liked to fight on the inside....it wouldn't work to his advantage vs either brother. But he did have a hell of a chin.
I think the best style match ups would be:
Mike Tyson for Vitali as in the late 80's and all through the 90's Tyson stopped moving his head and was beatable by guys who had good chins, knew how to box and had good defense.....Vitali is hard to hit unless you are head hunting and if you are he's 6'8 and leans back....it would be difficult for the 5'10 Tyson to connect often enough to cause significant damage IMO.
Riddick Bowe for Wlad, while I think that Riddick was a very good fighter he was 6'5 and gave up his size to fight on the inside because he liked to mix it up which is what made him VERY popular, however, giving up size and distance to let Wlad use how he wants is dangerous for anyone. Bowe had a good chin, was never stopped (he didn't fight many of the best power punchers of his era though), but got dropped by Evander, and vs Golota while he wasn't the same fighter he WAS getting schooled before Golota just blew up.
The worst matchup for the two are:
Lennox Lewis for Vitali...those two seemed evenly matched even when Lewis was SAID to be out of shape. Lewis a great boxer, a self professed "pugilist specialist" when he was younger could box and move as good as anyone before him. Although he could get careless it only happened twice in his career and he was able to avenge those losses.
Evander Holyfield for Wladimir...now I don't doubt that Wlad would totally own Evander for the majority of the fight but Evander has a great chin and the best stamina of his era. Evander would apply great pressure to Wlad and Wlad would bust him up BUT Evander would just take it and keep coming....that's a more dangerous fight than Tyson IMO who yes very well could catch Wlad with a haymaker BUT #1 Wlad doesn't drop from just one punch #2 Tyson allowed people to tie him up all throughout his career and Wlad is bigger and stronger than damn near everyone Tyson ever fought.
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Re: how would the klitschkos have got on during the late 80s/early 90s era??
I think the Klitschkos would have fared well in any era. I believe Vitali could have beaten Dokes, Witherspoon, Tubbs, Ruddock, Bowe, Tyson, Moorer and probably Holyfield but I think a well trained Lennox could have outboxed him. Now if we are talking the Tyson of the 80's then it might be a different story because of Tysons hunger and that he had better people surrounding him and the fact that he threw every punch in his arsenal with deadly intent. Now with Vlad it can be a coin toss but I believe he could have beaten most of the top fighters in the 80's and 90's as well especially at this stage in his career because he seems to be maturing and learning his craft quite well, like Lennox did. But Vlad still has his short comings to being a complete fighter such as body punching and he needs to throw more uppercuts to compensate for his iffy conditioning and chin. But I think they could have beaten most of the top guys except Lewis and 80's Tyson. And if they beat Lewis the 1st time then I'm sure in the rematch that Lewis would win. =). I also think the early 90's Foreman could have beaten Vlad but not Vitali.
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Re: how would the klitschkos have got on during the late 80s/early 90s era??
Vitaly would have stood his own and been considered great. Wvlad would have been kayoed by them all...
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Re: how would the klitschkos have got on during the late 80s/early 90s era??
A chunk of ear would have bitten off.
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Re: how would the klitschkos have got on during the late 80s/early 90s era??
Vitali could hold his own but would lose to prime Bowe, Holyfield, Tyson and Lewis, but all were inconsistent so at certain time Vitali may have been able to beat them.
Wlad is getting better but would lose to even the inconsistent moments the champs mentioned above may have had.
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Re: how would the klitschkos have got on during the late 80s/early 90s era??
The division is awful right now. But i believe that the 2 brothers are the only ones good enough to of competed at the top level in those times.
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Re: how would the klitschkos have got on during the late 80s/early 90s era??
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Originally Posted by
Master
Vitali could hold his own but would lose to prime Bowe, Holyfield, Tyson and Lewis, but all were inconsistent so at certain time Vitali may have been able to beat them.
Wlad is getting better but would lose to even the inconsistent moments the champs mentioned above may have had.
i could never see Wlad surviving a holyfield-bowe type war they went through and eventually taking a 10 count on the floor at some point. Vitali on the other hand probably would of been too good a boxer to get drawn into an all out fight like that though whether he would of been good enough to take holyfields ring guile or bowes power i just dont know?
Lewis would of boxed both guys heads off in his prime ive no reason to think otherwise. An 18 year old tyson would of probably steam rollered his way through Wlad the second he was able to get inside though again with vitali he may just of been good enough to play hare for a couple of rounds thus wearing iron mike out!
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Re: how would the klitschkos have got on during the late 80s/early 90s era??
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Originally Posted by
Master
Vitali could hold his own but would lose to prime Bowe, Holyfield, Tyson and Lewis, but all were inconsistent so at certain time Vitali may have been able to beat them.
Wlad is getting better but would lose to even the inconsistent moments the champs mentioned above may have had.
Tyson couldn't even beat Buster Douglas when he was a this worst, wasn't able to impose his well on Bonecrusher Smith at his best. If he can't land that big shot then He loses against either brother.
Bowe is so overrated. He was a good fighter who definitely had heart, but Vitali and Wlad are too big, and hit too hard for him. He probably would be favored to beat Wlad due to his chin, but no way does he even come close to beating Vitali.
Only Lennox of those 4 could handle Vitali the rest are simply too small.
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Re: how would the klitschkos have got on during the late 80s/early 90s era??
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Originally Posted by
hattonthehammer
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Originally Posted by
Master
Vitali could hold his own but would lose to prime Bowe, Holyfield, Tyson and Lewis, but all were inconsistent so at certain time Vitali may have been able to beat them.
Wlad is getting better but would lose to even the inconsistent moments the champs mentioned above may have had.
i could never see Wlad surviving a holyfield-bowe type war they went through and eventually taking a 10 count on the floor at some point. Vitali on the other hand probably would of been too good a boxer to get drawn into an all out fight like that though whether he would of been good enough to take holyfields ring guile or bowes power i just dont know?
Lewis would of boxed both guys heads off in his prime ive no reason to think otherwise. An 18 year old tyson would of probably steam rollered his way through Wlad the second he was able to get inside though again with vitali he may just of been good enough to play hare for a couple of rounds thus wearing iron mike out!
Lewis wasn't as good of a pure boxer in his physical prime later on, he was definitely good, but Vitali clearly showed Lennox would never box his head off. Lennox is my favorite heavyweight ever, and I think Vitalit gives him in his prime the hardest fight of his life.
You are right Wladimir Klitschko would never be able to survive a Holyfield-Bowe type war, but he would never a fight agianst a guy 6'2 turn into a war. WHen guys who are 240 can't handle the power of his jab, I would love to see Holyfield do it.
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Re: how would the klitschkos have got on during the late 80s/early 90s era??
People say Bowe's chin is great and although he has never been KO'd he never really fought the biggest punchers of his era and Holyfield knocked him down and hurt him several times.
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Re: how would the klitschkos have got on during the late 80s/early 90s era??
Some top quality and prospects were about in the early/mid 90's.Just grabbing a few off the top.
Ray Mercer was such a late starter out of the Olympics but made for a serious player.His problem was inconsistancy and he was no stranger to absorbing punches while attempting to get his own thuding shots home in one deminsional fashion.If you possessed good hands with a steady jab,a little movement and some ring caginess...Mercer would have some problems.I think Wlad has a nice combination of the three.A comebacking Larry Holmes put on a clinic after being rocked in the 1st round to surprise many people.Sharp jab,fast occasional right and a shuffle got it done for him over 12.Shite,Feather fisted Francisco Damiani boxed Mercers ears off for the majority of their fight before succumbing to one single inside uppercut that shattered his nose and left the Italian kneeling on the canvas,oozing blood for the count.Mercer seemed to re-tool things and step it up with Holyfield,actually fighting behind a hard busy jab and giving as good as he got until Holyfield came on strong in the late rounds,hurting Mercer with a jarring left hook and forcing Ray to take a knee.He went to war with Lennox Lewis a year later in a nip & tuck scrap that saw both take huge shots and battle back.Next he soaked up every right hand an in shape (for him anyway) Tim Witherspoon could manage for a nice 'suprise' win.I think that this Mercer stood a chance in with Wlad based on pressure and mentality,not to mention tremendous chin.Wlad could not wait around and hesitate to launch that straight right off Jab,and would very much need that left hook to work over time.He'd have to be very active the entire as Mercer did not detour easily.I can see Wlad taking it be unanimous call but he would work for it!!
One that would a total contrast might be a Razor Ruddock fight.One of the single hardest shots thrown by a Heavy in that era against a known checkable chin on Wlad.Ruddock had crappy balance and Either Brother would constantly stick a hard jab to head/body and vice versa to exploit it.Ruddock was hugely over reliant on that "Smash",that wicked left hook/left uppercut hybrid punch that he brought from the floor at times....and his right could be non existent.He'd have to throw his one trick pony with abandone and "IF" he found that chin under Wlads extended jab,Ruddock could very well KHTfarkout!!I just dont see it,Either brother has way too many tools that would take them to victory...Vitali possibly by TKO late.
How about ....Bruce Seldon.....:-X :lolhaha:.Actually Seldon had a very nice rapid fire jab of his own.But both bros would exploit Seldons aluminum foil chin,his constantly squarring up and ....lack of depth in Seldons chest region.
One that I think would be nice would be a very tip top shape Riddick Bowe.Bowe takes alot of flack,and frankly has him self to blame as he sabotaged himself with sloppy habits and an aloof attitude.When bowe was in rare form,at best...Holyfield 1,Gonzalez beat down and maybe Herbie Hide,he preformed very well.Bowe had some nice range and a solid jab from which he could close distance fast.One thing that gets over looked about Bowe Imo,is his ability as an inside fighter,solid body work and harsh uppercuts.Bowes chin was good though Holyfield cleaned his clock,Golota wobbled him,Herbie hide shook him,...He could be easily distracted ,I think Rock Newman had alot to do with that.I think a fit Bowe could TKO Wlad once he got around that jab.Vitali a different story though.Vitali would be able to surpass his strength,a solid beard of his own,and he would not hesitate to match Bowes punching when able.Edge to Vitali down stretch......Running on at the mouth,Need Coffee
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Re: how would the klitschkos have got on during the late 80s/early 90s era??
Tommy Morrison, Michael Moorer, Shannon Briggs, and Andrew Golota would have also been interesting matchups for the brothers.
I do like the Rudduck matchup as well...he was very strong but like you said he relied too much on the smash. Also if people think Wlad looks uncomfortable in the ring they should take a closer look at Razor....he was very tightly wound at times
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Re: how would the klitschkos have got on during the late 80s/early 90s era??
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Originally Posted by
Lyle
Tommy Morrison, Michael Moorer, Shannon Briggs, and Andrew Golota would have also been interesting matchups for the brothers.
I do like the Rudduck matchup as well...he was very strong but like you said he relied too much on the smash. Also if people think Wlad looks uncomfortable in the ring they should take a closer look at Razor....he was very tightly wound at times
mercer just seems like the kind of guy that would be tailor made for the klitschkos to jab away and beat.
A prime holyfield would of given either brother absoloute nightmares for 12rounds - no way i could see Wlad getting anything other than KO`d in that one and Vitali probably as well.
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Re: how would the klitschkos have got on during the late 80s/early 90s era??
Well the Evander who got beaten by Moorer and the one who was stopped vs Bowe in the third fight or the one that fought Lennox Lewis in their first fight I think Wladimir could handle but it's a HORRIBLE style matchup when Evander is fully healthy as he applied so much pressure and had such a great chin that he could handle Wlad's punches. Vitali IMO could beat Holyfield, different style, different strengths....Vitali is one of the toughest fighters to give anyone a clear shot over him without having doubts.
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Re: how would the klitschkos have got on during the late 80s/early 90s era??
Vitali gives any heavyweight in history problems.....I think it is basically a tossup..I dont see anyone I would bet the house would beat him.....Wlad on the other hand would have trouble with fast, big punchers like Tyson.....The problem is Wlad can get rattled.......BUT if Wlad weathers the storm he has the physical gifts and power to create trouble for anyone....
The Klitchkos are up there when it comes to technically sound fighters and as we have seen with Hopkins it creates problems albeit not necessarily an exciting fight for the fans........
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Re: how would the klitschkos have got on during the late 80s/early 90s era??
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Originally Posted by
Master
Vitali could hold his own but would lose to prime Bowe, Holyfield, Tyson and Lewis, but all were inconsistent so at certain time Vitali may have been able to beat them.
Wlad is getting better but would lose to even the inconsistent moments the champs mentioned above may have had.
You have totally hit the nail on the head with this one here Master.
I like Both Klits especially Vitali but at the end of the day he was starting to really struggle with an old out of shape Lennox. Had that Lennox turned up for either Holyfield fight or even the Tyson fight he would "probably" have been beaten whereas the more I watch the Vitali fight the more he seemed to be taking over upto the fight being stopped.
Vitali is the best around now and had he not got that injury we would probably have a champ with 12+ straight defences. But against probably the second best era the HW's have produced I think he falls horribly short!
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Re: how would the klitschkos have got on during the late 80s/early 90s era??
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Originally Posted by
hattonthehammer
d of given either brother absoloute nightmares for 12rounds - no way i could see Wlad getting anything other than KO`d in that one and Vitali probably as well.
The exact opposite is the case. Both brothers would have been an awful matchup even for a prime Holyfield. They are both simply too big and would have jabbed him to death. They'd have punished and probably stopped him even in his prime. Just not a good matchup for Holy
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Re: how would the klitschkos have got on during the late 80s/early 90s era??
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Originally Posted by
ClubberLang
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Originally Posted by
hattonthehammer
d of given either brother absoloute nightmares for 12rounds - no way i could see Wlad getting anything other than KO`d in that one and Vitali probably as well.
The exact opposite is the case. Both brothers would have been an awful matchup even for a prime Holyfield. They are both simply too big and would have jabbed him to death. They'd have punished and probably stopped him even in his prime. Just not a good matchup for Holy
No way! If Holy showed up for a fight with either brother in full health and in his prime he would totally school both!
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Re: how would the klitschkos have got on during the late 80s/early 90s era??
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Originally Posted by
rjj tszyu
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Originally Posted by
ClubberLang
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Originally Posted by
hattonthehammer
d of given either brother absoloute nightmares for 12rounds - no way i could see Wlad getting anything other than KO`d in that one and Vitali probably as well.
The exact opposite is the case. Both brothers would have been an awful matchup even for a prime Holyfield. They are both simply too big and would have jabbed him to death. They'd have punished and probably stopped him even in his prime. Just not a good matchup for Holy
No way! If Holy showed up for a fight with either brother in full health and in his prime he would totally school both!
Holyfield dealt with bowes height advantage with some ease and was able to run rings around him quite often.
The evander holyfield that turned up and beat tyson twice and bowe once would of found a way to make both klitschkos fight his fight!
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Re: how would the klitschkos have got on during the late 80s/early 90s era??
Holyfield always had trouble with Bowe's jab and that is the best weapon of Wlad. Holyfield would eventually catch up with Wlad because he could not live with the intensity of Holyfield that fought Bowe the first time. Vitali would probably survive to the end but lose a decision.
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Re: how would the klitschkos have got on during the late 80s/early 90s era??
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Originally Posted by
Killface
As much trouble as Wlad had with Ray Mercer I reckon Mercer would have had his way with him back in his prime.
What??? Wlad absolutely destroyed Mercer! I've never seen Mercer take such a horrendous beating as he did from Wlad.
And as unpopular as the Klitschko's may be, there is one undeniable fact: Those guys would do great in ANY era, and on any given night could have beaten any HW who ever lived. I'm not saying they are the best HWs ever, I don't even think they are top 10. But anybody with a combination of that much size and that much talent would be AT THE VERY LEAST an A-level, title contender in ANY era.
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Re: how would the klitschkos have got on during the late 80s/early 90s era??
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ClubberLang
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Originally Posted by
hattonthehammer
d of given either brother absoloute nightmares for 12rounds - no way i could see Wlad getting anything other than KO`d in that one and Vitali probably as well.
The exact opposite is the case. Both brothers would have been an awful matchup even for a prime Holyfield. They are both simply too big and would have jabbed him to death. They'd have punished and probably stopped him even in his prime. Just not a good matchup for Holy
Agreed. Look what Lewis did to Holyfield.
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Re: how would the klitschkos have got on during the late 80s/early 90s era??
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Originally Posted by
Taeth
I don't necessarily think so, I don't see how prime Mercer would have an easier time getting past that jab. Wlad is much better IMO at using his height than Lennox was who fought more athletically and especially against Mercer failed to really impose his size on Mercer, nor did Lennox tie Mercer up on the inside which Wlad would do everytime Mercer got in close.
I think Vitali would be competitive and probably at the top of any division all the way back. IMO it wasn't just Lennox's age that made the fight so hard for him. Vitali is that good. He's so tall, great chin, good defensive skills, and still pretty athletic. This guy could compete with anyone who's ever fought.
Though I think either could compete at the top level at any time in the sports history..
I agree especially on Vitaly...The man is damn good and impressive, when at the top of his game he is frightning..
His chin is one of the best ever...He hits so damn hard...He can move...he can fight in more then one style...
The man is the complete package...To say otherwise is ust hating on the Klitschko name not genuine boxing opinion
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Re: how would the klitschkos have got on during the late 80s/early 90s era??
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Originally Posted by
Master
Holyfield always had trouble with Bowe's jab and that is the best weapon of Wlad. Holyfield would eventually catch up with Wlad because he could not live with the intensity of Holyfield that fought Bowe the first time. Vitali would probably survive to the end but lose a decision.
Now we have no doubt seen evidence of Wlad totally gassing out during a fight and that's why I think Holyfield is a horrible match up for him but make no doubt about it Evander would have had to edure a hellacious beating to win.
Vitali on the other hand is durable and is far too economical with his punches to lose a decision to Evander.
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Re: how would the klitschkos have got on during the late 80s/early 90s era??
The thing that stands out to me in regards to a Wlad vs.Holyfield match up.Holyfields combination handspeed and counter punching.Agree with Master on level of intensity he would bring,once he gets around Wlads Jab/extended jab,and yes he was prone to eat some jabs but would adapt...I think he would rip Wlad up on the inside and underneath.Wlad does not fight comfortably in close quarters and I think Holyfield would set a pace come the middle & late rounds he just could not withstand.
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Re: how would the klitschkos have got on during the late 80s/early 90s era??
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Originally Posted by
Spicoli surfs 'Nawlins
The thing that stands out to me in regards to a Wlad vs.Holyfield match up.Holyfields combination handspeed and counter punching.Agree with Master on level of intensity he would bring,once he gets around Wlads Jab/extended jab,and yes he was prone to eat some jabs but would adapt...I think he would rip Wlad up on the inside and underneath.Wlad does not fight comfortably in close quarters and I think Holyfield would set a pace come the middle & late rounds he just could not withstand.
totally agreed! And the final outcome would end in a KO as the accumulation of what Holyfield was doing would be too much for Wlad to handle IMO
