How well do you think an openly gay boxer would do
Lets imagine he is a world class boxer with an exciting style would be being openly gay be a positive or a negative on his career
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How well do you think an openly gay boxer would do
Lets imagine he is a world class boxer with an exciting style would be being openly gay be a positive or a negative on his career
Marquez has done pretty well for himself ;D:-X
Lets put it this way,a pretty large section of the female boxing world is allready wearing comfortable shows around their house with their pets and their partners.
And as a matchmaker if it was a male gay guy,if he was a good fighter,Id book him regardless. About all Id say is the guy would have to expect more High 5 tests then normal.
I thought Gene Tunney was gay.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey
I have comfy shoes, why would I wear anything else round the house? I have bunny slippers but we'll let that one slide...and I have pets...hang on a minute TM :-\ Last time I checked I wasn't one of the sisterhood. :-X
Old Robin Williams joke,"We should stop calling them lesbians,and just call them women wearing comfortable shoes"Quote:
Originally Posted by Howlin Mad MissyQuote:
Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey
I have comfy shoes, why would I wear anything else round the house? I have bunny slippers but we'll let that one slide...and I have pets...hang on a minute TM :-\ Last time I checked I wasn't one of the sisterhood. :-X
I think he would have a long career where he would never face elite competition.
Only guys desperate for a fight would fight him, anyone known would simply say, "Who is he? Who has he fought?" Rumors would abound about him having disease and he'd only fight for a fringe title.
I think they could bring a massive fan base from the gay community that could make serious money but could i see crowds of queens at a fight, not sure?
No need to bring Carl Froch into this.Quote:
Originally Posted by Killface
I think a gay boxer would do alright. It might seem odd for such a macho sport, but not all homos are walking leotard wearers.
You have more faith in humanity than I do. We are afraid, quivering and small-minded, the human race. There are those of us who have been bold enough to grow beyond our respective comfort zones but they are far and few between. We are often not honest--with other people and ourselves--and will act contrary to the things we 'believe'.Quote:
Originally Posted by miles
It would be dangerous for a fighter to be openly gay.
Fucked as it is, it is like losing to a woman at any type of sporting activity - you just can't let it happen. And guys that do lose to women get slaughtered.
So a gay guy would just extra motivate fighters to bash him.
(Bring it missy ;D)
Most of the homophobes have been weeded out of boxing from a promoter standpoint.Quote:
Originally Posted by KillfaceYou have more faith in humanity than I do. We are afraid, quivering and small-minded, the human race. There are those of us who have been bold enough to grow beyond our respective comfort zones but they are far and few between. We are often not honest--with other people and ourselves--and will act contrary to the things we 'believe'.Quote:
Originally Posted by miles
You want a big pre-fight show
Well guess what side of the tracks alot of your dancers play on
You want to promote female fights?
Well guess what again
Notice,when Emile Griffith finally came out,the reaction of the boxing community was,"Oh, tell us something we dont know"
So has Calzaghe :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Howlin Mad Missy
TM, I hope you're right and I'm wrong. But the truth of it is in other pro sports where gay athletes wait until retirement before coming out and the comments of other players regarding gays in the locker room I don't think they would be accepted. I don't think most fans would accept them. It's not like acting where you're half suspicious of most of them, it's sports. Something heterosexual men wish they could do at that level, idolizing, adoring, examining, and envying those athletic bodies in a pseudo-sexual manner they would never admit. I think a gay athlete would make them confront those emotions and it makes them uncomfortable with what was already floating in the backseat of their minds.Quote:
Originally Posted by Trainer MonkeyMost of the homophobes have been weeded out of boxing from a promoter standpoint.Quote:
Originally Posted by KillfaceYou have more faith in humanity than I do. We are afraid, quivering and small-minded, the human race. There are those of us who have been bold enough to grow beyond our respective comfort zones but they are far and few between. We are often not honest--with other people and ourselves--and will act contrary to the things we 'believe'.Quote:
Originally Posted by miles
You want a big pre-fight show
Well guess what side of the tracks alot of your dancers play on
You want to promote female fights?
Well guess what again
Notice,when Emile Griffith finally came out,the reaction of the boxing community was,"Oh, tell us something we dont know"
Why the fuk would a boxer want to be openly gay anyways? I mean, it's not like there are many openly straight boxers are there? Ninety Five percent of the fighters we have no idea about their sexuality, anyways.
But what's the assumption always? Heterosexual. And he bangs lots of chicks. We have to acknowledge that if he's gay he's probably banging a lot of dudes. A friend of mine is a gay and he told me it is extremely easy for two dudes to hook up.Quote:
Originally Posted by CGM
What you say about it being easy for two guys to hook up is probably true, but irrelevant to the question, about being openly gay in boxing or any other sport. And I might well ask you "What assumption". Do you really think the majority of boxing fans make assumptions about, or even give a moment's thought to, the sexuality of their favorite boxer? Or who he's banging? I would respectfully suggest that a big name fighter needs to focus on what he does, which is boxing, and not make any kind of a public issue about his sexuality. Cause it really ain't anyone's business but his own.Quote:
Originally Posted by KillfaceBut what's the assumption always? Heterosexual. And he bangs lots of chicks. We have to acknowledge that if he's gay he's probably banging a lot of dudes. A friend of mine is a gay and he told me it is extremely easy for two dudes to hook up.Quote:
Originally Posted by CGM
I think its alot worse in football,there's alot more of that macho Marine attitude,in football. Boxing the fighter gets so deep in to their training,I dont think they think about anything other then hitting the other guy.Quote:
Originally Posted by KillfaceTM, I hope you're right and I'm wrong. But the truth of it is in other pro sports where gay athletes wait until retirement before coming out and the comments of other players regarding gays in the locker room I don't think they would be accepted. I don't think most fans would accept them. It's not like acting where you're half suspicious of most of them, it's sports. Something heterosexual men wish they could do at that level, idolizing, adoring, examining, and envying those athletic bodies in a pseudo-sexual manner they would never admit. I think a gay athlete would make them confront those emotions and it makes them uncomfortable with what was already floating in the backseat of their minds.Quote:
Originally Posted by Trainer MonkeyMost of the homophobes have been weeded out of boxing from a promoter standpoint.Quote:
Originally Posted by Killface
You want a big pre-fight show
Well guess what side of the tracks alot of your dancers play on
You want to promote female fights?
Well guess what again
Notice,when Emile Griffith finally came out,the reaction of the boxing community was,"Oh, tell us something we dont know"
Half the time,they barely know anything about the guy theyre going to fight except what the gameplan in the ring is going to be.
And from the promoter/management point of view,I honestly could care less,Id book a guy if he's good,I dont care what his sex life is like,truthfully most of the time I just dont even want to know.All I want to know is that when I send you to wherever to where Im sending you,you wont get in trouble with a hooker,and I dont really care about the sex of the hooker,I just dont want there to be one for this trip.
From a comedy standpoint I think it could be a hilarious.
I can think of nothing funnier in the entire world than a raging homosexual, camp beyond measure but a world class boxer at the same time.
I'm picturing a muscular black gay like Lafayette from True Blood, coming to the ring with pink shorts, pink mouth guard, eyeliner and red lipstick and fighting with an extremely camp style that nobody has seen before but that is extremely effective.
How funny would it be to watch fighters you hate getting owned by a queer with his own uniquely camp fighting stance? :D
On a side not however no openly gay man should ever fight in MMA, that would turn my stomach :puke:
No, I think the public at large assume the people they idolize is like them. Most people aren't gay and I think they assume as much in athletes. No, most boxers don't come out and say, "I'm straight and proud," but it's just like being white (at least in America). Most people are and more than likely the face you see when you turn on your TV will be too. I'm not saying whether or not any particular thing is bad or good. I'm just talking about what I believe people's assumptions are.Quote:
Originally Posted by CGMWhat you say about it being easy for two guys to hook up is probably true, but irrelevant to the question, about being openly gay in boxing or any other sport. And I might well ask you "What assumption". Do you really think the majority of boxing fans make assumptions about, or even give a moment's thought to, the sexuality of their favorite boxer? Or who he's banging? I would respectfully suggest that a big name fighter needs to focus on what he does, which is boxing, and not make any kind of a public issue about his sexuality. Cause it really ain't anyone's business but his own.Quote:
Originally Posted by KillfaceBut what's the assumption always? Heterosexual. And he bangs lots of chicks. We have to acknowledge that if he's gay he's probably banging a lot of dudes. A friend of mine is a gay and he told me it is extremely easy for two dudes to hook up.Quote:
Originally Posted by CGM
So as long as they don't come out it's okay with you? Nothing is going to be funnier when one of those guys gets a raging boner in those short-shorts after he gets through grounding and pounding his opponent.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo
We've had JMM and Calzaghe jokes yet this didn't pull a Paulie Malignaggi reference? Granted he's not world class...Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo
OK I see your point about that. However, I still go back to my original point about why be open at all. Maybe your are right about what would happen if a big name fighter a public splash about being gay and proud. But I don't think the reaction would be as bad as you apparently assume. In any case I go back to my original point and say why bother? Like I said, the vast majority of boxers we don't know what their sexuality is, regardless of what our assumptions might be. Because they choose not to make a public issue of their sexuality. And no I don't buy into the argument that they need to be in your face about being gay because they are an oppressed minority.Quote:
Originally Posted by KillfaceNo, I think the public at large assume the people they idolize is like them. Most people aren't gay and I think they assume as much in athletes. No, most boxers don't come out and say, "I'm straight and proud," but it's just like being white (at least in America). Most people are and more than likely the face you see when you turn on your TV will be too. I'm not saying whether or not any particular thing is bad or good. I'm just talking about what I believe people's assumptions are.Quote:
Originally Posted by CGMWhat you say about it being easy for two guys to hook up is probably true, but irrelevant to the question, about being openly gay in boxing or any other sport. And I might well ask you "What assumption". Do you really think the majority of boxing fans make assumptions about, or even give a moment's thought to, the sexuality of their favorite boxer? Or who he's banging? I would respectfully suggest that a big name fighter needs to focus on what he does, which is boxing, and not make any kind of a public issue about his sexuality. Cause it really ain't anyone's business but his own.Quote:
Originally Posted by Killface
Of course boxing fans could just grow up about it. Ignoring the amount of lesbians in womens boxing,if you just run the percentage numbers,theres a major gay male boxer out there somewhere. Id have no idea who,but the population percentages would dictate it.
What a thwilly thwead.
I hope you're right and I'm wrong.Quote:
Originally Posted by CGMOK I see your point about that. However, I still go back to my original point about why be open at all. Maybe your are right about what would happen if a big name fighter a public splash about being gay and proud. But I don't think the reaction would be as bad as you apparently assume. In any case I go back to my original point and say why bother? Like I said, the vast majority of boxers we don't know what their sexuality is, regardless of what our assumptions might be. Because they choose not to make a public issue of their sexuality. And no I don't buy into the argument that they need to be in your face about being gay because they are an oppressed minority.Quote:
Originally Posted by KillfaceNo, I think the public at large assume the people they idolize is like them. Most people aren't gay and I think they assume as much in athletes. No, most boxers don't come out and say, "I'm straight and proud," but it's just like being white (at least in America). Most people are and more than likely the face you see when you turn on your TV will be too. I'm not saying whether or not any particular thing is bad or good. I'm just talking about what I believe people's assumptions are.Quote:
Originally Posted by CGM
I dont know why anybody cares about a boxers sexuality anyway,its not like youd ever want to see most of them doing it on tape. Valuev has a relatively hot wife,now picture him climbing on top of her and rutting away,now try and sleep tonight.
Narrow it down a bit. We have covered a few issues here. On which point specifically do you refer to with your last remark?Quote:
Originally Posted by KillfaceI hope you're right and I'm wrong.Quote:
Originally Posted by CGMOK I see your point about that. However, I still go back to my original point about why be open at all. Maybe your are right about what would happen if a big name fighter a public splash about being gay and proud. But I don't think the reaction would be as bad as you apparently assume. In any case I go back to my original point and say why bother? Like I said, the vast majority of boxers we don't know what their sexuality is, regardless of what our assumptions might be. Because they choose not to make a public issue of their sexuality. And no I don't buy into the argument that they need to be in your face about being gay because they are an oppressed minority.Quote:
Originally Posted by Killface
That poor woman. Beastiality is a sin.Quote:
Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey
Women's boxing isn't a spectator sport though Monkey, people don't care about women lesbians being boxers because the world at large doesn't care about women's boxing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey
It's like asking how would the public respond to a gay male curling champion or an openly gay kayaker, with the obvious answer being complete indifference because nobody cares about those sports.
The only woman's sport that is successful on a world level is obviously tennis and when Martina Navratilova announced she was a lesbian there was huge worldwide press attention.
Even today she is still more well known for being a dyke than she is for being the greatest singles, doubles and mixed doubles player of all time.
Apparantly it keeps getting booked as a loss leader then huh?Quote:
Originally Posted by BilboWomen's boxing isn't a spectator sport though Monkey, people don't care about women lesbians being boxers because the world at large doesn't care about women's boxing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey
It's like asking how would the public respond to a gay male curling champion or an openly gay kayaker, with the obvious answer being complete indifference because nobody cares about those sports.
The only woman's sport that is successful on a world level is obviously tennis and when Martina Navratilova announced she was a lesbian there was huge worldwide press attention.
Even today she is still more well known for being a dyke than she is for being the greatest singles, doubles and mixed doubles player of all time.
Id rather watch a Mahfood or Wolfe fight then a Valuev fight,any rational fan of the sport would
I don't mean it won't make money or that it has no fans Monkey I just mean the world at large doesn't watch it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Trainer MonkeyApparantly it keeps getting booked as a loss leader then huh?Quote:
Originally Posted by BilboWomen's boxing isn't a spectator sport though Monkey, people don't care about women lesbians being boxers because the world at large doesn't care about women's boxing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey
It's like asking how would the public respond to a gay male curling champion or an openly gay kayaker, with the obvious answer being complete indifference because nobody cares about those sports.
The only woman's sport that is successful on a world level is obviously tennis and when Martina Navratilova announced she was a lesbian there was huge worldwide press attention.
Even today she is still more well known for being a dyke than she is for being the greatest singles, doubles and mixed doubles player of all time.
Id rather watch a Mahfood or Wolfe fight then a Valuev fight,any rational fan of the sport would
If Anne Wolfe came out as a lesbian then it might raise a few eyebrows within the boxing world, (especially as most probably think if she confessed to anything it would be to be being born a man) but the reaction from 99.9% of the world population would be 'Anne who?'
Mens boxing though is different, the world class fighters at the elite of the sport are far far far far far (add another 25000000 zero's at least) more well known than Anne Wolfe is and so it would be a far bigger deal and would get talked about at the very least.
Again this isn't a knock on woman's boxing you could say the same for any other female sport apart from tennis, and you could say it about 90% of all sports other than the big few like soccer, American football, tennis, Formula One, Baseball etc.
Nobody in Britian would care if a member of our national hockey team was gay or even the whole team as we simply wouldnt know because we don't play hockey but if any footballer in the UK announced he was gay (like Justin Fashanu did) he can expect a barracking from the terraces and songs being chanted about him for the rest of his career and beyond.
I got news,most of the world isnt watching male or female boxing,except the die hards.Quote:
Originally Posted by BilboI don't mean it won't make money or that it has no fans Monkey I just mean the world at large doesn't watch it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Trainer MonkeyApparantly it keeps getting booked as a loss leader then huh?Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo
Id rather watch a Mahfood or Wolfe fight then a Valuev fight,any rational fan of the sport would
If Anne Wolfe came out as a lesbian then it might raise a few eyebrows within the boxing world, (especially as most probably think if she confessed to anything it would be to be being born a man) but the reaction from 99.9% of the world population would be 'Anne who?'
Mens boxing though is different, the world class fighters at the elite of the sport are far far far far far (add another 25000000 zero's at least) more well known than Anne Wolfe is and so it would be a far bigger deal and would get talked about at the very least.
Again this isn't a knock on woman's boxing you could say the same for any other female sport apart from tennis, and you could say it about 90% of all sports other than the big few like soccer, American football, tennis, Formula One, Baseball etc.
Nobody in Britian would care if a member of our national hockey team was gay or even the whole team as we simply wouldnt know because we don't play hockey but if any footballer in the UK announced he was gay (like Justin Fashanu did) he can expect a barracking from the terraces and songs being chanted about him for the rest of his career and beyond.
Alot of why I got in to the promotion and management end of it in the first place,is I wanted to see the fights I wanted to see,not one tomato can after another being beaten senseless by another contender.
Ive just about gotten Mahfood/Bontz wrapped up,and Im looking forward to seeing it,because I dont have a clue who'se going to win.
Those are the type of fights boxing needs
Not 35-0 vs,we just found this guy
Monkey I admire your insistence on arguing every single point you make until the bitter end, refusing to give in even when the reality of your wrongness is pointed out by everybody.Quote:
Originally Posted by Trainer MonkeyI got news,most of the world isnt watching male or female boxing,except the die hards.Quote:
Originally Posted by BilboI don't mean it won't make money or that it has no fans Monkey I just mean the world at large doesn't watch it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey
If Anne Wolfe came out as a lesbian then it might raise a few eyebrows within the boxing world, (especially as most probably think if she confessed to anything it would be to be being born a man) but the reaction from 99.9% of the world population would be 'Anne who?'
Mens boxing though is different, the world class fighters at the elite of the sport are far far far far far (add another 25000000 zero's at least) more well known than Anne Wolfe is and so it would be a far bigger deal and would get talked about at the very least.
Again this isn't a knock on woman's boxing you could say the same for any other female sport apart from tennis, and you could say it about 90% of all sports other than the big few like soccer, American football, tennis, Formula One, Baseball etc.
Nobody in Britian would care if a member of our national hockey team was gay or even the whole team as we simply wouldnt know because we don't play hockey but if any footballer in the UK announced he was gay (like Justin Fashanu did) he can expect a barracking from the terraces and songs being chanted about him for the rest of his career and beyond.
Alot of why I got in to the promotion and management end of it in the first place,is I wanted to see the fights I wanted to see,not one tomato can after another being beaten senseless by another contender.
Ive just about gotten Mahfood/Bontz wrapped up,and Im looking forward to seeing it,because I dont have a clue who'se going to win.
Those are the type of fights boxing needs
Not 35-0 vs,we just found this guy
But let's just assume here a little scenario.
Christy Martin announces she is gay. What kind of newspaper and media coverage do you think this would get?
Now Evander Holyfield announces he is gay.
I ask you Monkey, which is the bigger news story? Which one would people be talking about? On this forum and other boxing sites around the world which story would be discussed the most?
An openly gay boxer amongst the world's male elite would be huge news. If Floyd Mayweather announces he's been playing with mens cocks you can be sure it would create some SERIOUS news, discussion and debate.
If Christy Martin announces she like to flick the bean pretty much the only household where anyone will care other than her own is yours.
Anyway, I know you will continue to disagree and delight us all with another classic response, so please continue.........:)
Well I can safely say Christy wont be announcing she's gay any time soonQuote:
Originally Posted by BilboMonkey I admire your insistence on arguing every single point you make until the bitter end, refusing to give in even when the reality of your wrongness is pointed out by everybody.Quote:
Originally Posted by Trainer MonkeyI got news,most of the world isnt watching male or female boxing,except the die hards.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo
Alot of why I got in to the promotion and management end of it in the first place,is I wanted to see the fights I wanted to see,not one tomato can after another being beaten senseless by another contender.
Ive just about gotten Mahfood/Bontz wrapped up,and Im looking forward to seeing it,because I dont have a clue who'se going to win.
Those are the type of fights boxing needs
Not 35-0 vs,we just found this guy
But let's just assume here a little scenario.
Christy Martin announces she is gay. What kind of newspaper and media coverage do you think this would get?
Now Evander Holyfield announces he is gay.
I ask you Monkey, which is the bigger news story? Which one would people be talking about? On this forum and other boxing sites around the world which story would be discussed the most?
An openly gay boxer amongst the world's male elite would be huge news. If Floyd Mayweather announces he's been playing with mens cocks you can be sure it would create some SERIOUS news, discussion and debate.
If Christy Martin announces she like to flick the bean pretty much the only household where anyone will care other than her own is yours.
Anyway, I know you will continue to disagree and delight us all with another classic response, so please continue.........:)
But even if it was Holyfield,it would make more of a bump on anthing then sites like this.
Nobody in the real world really cares about Holyfield much anymore either,if Laila Ali decided that she really liked chicks it would get more play in the media.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trainer MonkeyWell I can safely say Christy wont be announcing she's gay any time soonQuote:
Originally Posted by BilboMonkey I admire your insistence on arguing every single point you make until the bitter end, refusing to give in even when the reality of your wrongness is pointed out by everybody.Quote:
Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey
But let's just assume here a little scenario.
Christy Martin announces she is gay. What kind of newspaper and media coverage do you think this would get?
Now Evander Holyfield announces he is gay.
I ask you Monkey, which is the bigger news story? Which one would people be talking about? On this forum and other boxing sites around the world which story would be discussed the most?
An openly gay boxer amongst the world's male elite would be huge news. If Floyd Mayweather announces he's been playing with mens cocks you can be sure it would create some SERIOUS news, discussion and debate.
If Christy Martin announces she like to flick the bean pretty much the only household where anyone will care other than her own is yours.
Anyway, I know you will continue to disagree and delight us all with another classic response, so please continue.........:)
But even if it was Holyfield,it would make more of a bump on anthing then sites like this.
Nobody in the real world really cares about Holyfield much anymore either,if Laila Ali decided that she really liked chicks it would get more play in the media.
Ah Trainer you really livinig in your own world, you think Evander Holyfiel could announce he was gay and the world wouldn't talk about it?
I agree that Laila Ali announcing she was a lesbian would certainly get into the media but this has nothing to do with the fact that she's a boxer but rather everything to do with who her dad was.
And even with Laila Ali, you are completely, utterly and hopelessly cluelessly wrong if you think Laila announcing herself a lesbian would gain more press attention that Holyfield announcing he is gay.
I think it would sell alot of tickets, wouldnt it be hilarious if the best fighter in the world was gay. Emile Griffith was gay, and he kicked some major ass. He might have got lynched if he was open about it though, back then.
Look at Wladdy Klitschko - he's a homosexual, and he's doing pretty well.;D;D
Actually you are,nobody cares about Holyfield anymore,they havent for years now.Quote:
Originally Posted by BilboQuote:
Originally Posted by Trainer MonkeyWell I can safely say Christy wont be announcing she's gay any time soonQuote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo
But even if it was Holyfield,it would make more of a bump on anthing then sites like this.
Nobody in the real world really cares about Holyfield much anymore either,if Laila Ali decided that she really liked chicks it would get more play in the media.
Ah Trainer you really livinig in your own world, you think Evander Holyfiel could announce he was gay and the world wouldn't talk about it?
I agree that Laila Ali announcing she was a lesbian would certainly get into the media but this has nothing to do with the fact that she's a boxer but rather everything to do with who her dad was.
And even with Laila Ali, you are completely, utterly and hopelessly cluelessly wrong if you think Laila announcing herself a lesbian would gain more press attention that Holyfield announcing he is gay.
It'll play on boxing boards,but it would barely be a hiccup on a mainstream news board like Yahoo