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O.K. I make no excuses about it. I've been following Pavlik for years. But I've also watched a bunch of Abraham fights. Both are talented fighters, but I feel Abraham is the better 'pure boxer'.
This is the fight that has to be made, as it will confirm the king of the middleweight division.
Although I know it will be a barn-burner from beginning to end, I'm still on the fence as to who will win.
What do you guys think?
I think Abraham stops Pav late on, It should definitly happen though, has the potential to be fight of the year!
I think it has to be made, Abraham's one tough hombre with a quality technique, it might come down too who can soak it up better, a great match up to look forward too.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Shadow
Good match up - the dofference would be Abraham's strength and punch resistance. I think he has a good chance of wearing pavlik down in the last third of the fight and either stealing it on points or even getting a late stoppage.
Abraham takes Pavlik to the woodshed and beats him like a rented mule......Abraham's defense is like Fort Knox, he has great power, an iron chin (literally I think he has a bunch fo screws in it) and solid European technique.....Pavliks got a shakey defense, come forward technique and good power with somewhat shakey whiskers (he was buzzed by Taylor and Hopkins).....
I have never seem Abraham buzzed or hurt, I mean the guy took the hard hitting Miranda's best shots while he had a broken jaw:o:o:o
Yes it would be one good match up Abraham being slightly favorite IMO, very strong, good technique and even faster than Pavlik but from what I saw he’s a slow starter so a top class fighter could take advantage of that and still the decision.
Pavlik would outwork him, Abraham just is too much of a spot fighter for me.
Pavlik kind of reminds me of a chico corrales, he knows he can punch and is willing to take some shots to give some BUT like chico, Pavlik has some shaky whiskers and against a Guy like Abraham, who can also punch and has a solid defense and movement Pavlik will receive more than he gives....I see Arty KO'ing Pavlik within 8......
I see Pavlik having a similar career to Chico....
On the other hand Abraham reminds me of Winky Wright with KO power which is scarey......,..
If Abraham just sat in front of Pavlik and covered up like he's prone to doing, Pavlik would eventually break through his guard and stop him/decision him. Pavlik's high work rate, power, and Abraham's ability to spend half the fight trying to block punches would be a bad combination for the German.
what CFH said
It was humorous to me all the people who saw what Bernard did and think AA could do the same. He's completely different stylistically compared to Hopkins.
Now I'm not saying he can't win, he can but the Hopkins fight I don't think will have much to do with it unless Kelly's mentally damaged from that fight which I don't see as being that likely.
Honestly, Hunter, I haven't the slightest clue what you're talking about. Pavlik has "shaky whiskers"? He took 9 or 10 straight power shots from Taylor before hitting the canvas, got up, recovered an onslaught that would have had anyone else in the division out, and came back the next round like nothing ever happened.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hunter
The first Abraham v. Miranda fight was a joke: They might as well had Abraham's corner man in the ring hitting Miranda over the head with a bat with how corrupt that officiating was. If that fight would have happened state-side, Abraham would have been KO'd. I think anyone who is remotely fair couldn't possibly see it any other way.
I do think that Abraham is the more well-rounded fighter, but I think Pavlik has been in with the far better competition: Jermain Taylor twice, a Hopkins who got fuked out of a decision against Calzaghe and put on a clinic against an awe struck Pavlik. Pavlik and Miranda have a lot to prove. Let's just hope Pavlik doesn't opt for John Duddy, who doesn't belong in the same time zone as Pavlik, much less the same ring. However, I think that Pavlik wants the best out there, so I think Abraham is next on the radar after Rubio.
We'll see if Abraham has the balls to come state-side for the fight. After all, this is the Mecca of boxing, and there isn't a chance in hell of getting Pavlik to fight in Deutschland.
Whatever the case may be, the only two fights that I want to see is Pavlik v. Abraham and Pacquiao v. Mayweather.
Quote:
Originally Posted by The ShadowHonestly, Hunter, I haven't the slightest clue what you're talking about. Pavlik has "shaky whiskers"? He took 9 or 10 straight power shots from Taylor before hitting the canvas, got up, recovered an onslaught that would have had anyone else in the division out, and came back the next round like nothing ever happened.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hunter
The first Abraham v. Miranda fight was a joke: They might as well had Abraham's corner man in the ring hitting Miranda over the head with a bat with how corrupt that officiating was. If that fight would have happened state-side, Abraham would have been KO'd. I think anyone who is remotely fair couldn't possibly see it any other way.
I do think that Abraham is the more well-rounded fighter, but I think Pavlik has been in with the far better competition: Jermain Taylor twice, a Hopkins who got fuked out of a decision against Calzaghe and put on a clinic against an awe struck Pavlik. Pavlik and Miranda have a lot to prove. Let's just hope Pavlik doesn't opt for John Duddy, who doesn't belong in the same time zone as Pavlik, much less the same ring. However, I think that Pavlik wants the best out there, so I think Abraham is next on the radar after Rubio.
We'll see if Abraham has the balls to come state-side for the fight. After all, this is the Mecca of boxing, and there isn't a chance in hell of getting Pavlik to fight in Deutschland.
Whatever the case may be, the only two fights that I want to see is Pavlik v. Abraham and Pacquiao v. Mayweather.
I am of the opinion that Pavlik is overrated...I think he is a straight forward plodding fighter that has had his confidence seriously shaken by Hopkins and I dont think he is going to be the same fighter......Like I said before Pavlik has the mentality of I will take two from you to give you one of mine and typically that doesnt lead to a successful career......If Taylor would have relaxed for a minute and sat down on his punches after he hurt Pavlik rather than swinging around like a maniac he would have gotten Pavlik out of there IMHO......Taylor punched himself out in the first fight and THAT is the reason Pavlik got the KO.....In the second fight I believe Taylor gave Kelly too much respect for his power (but I guess I am not the one in there so it is easy for me to say;D)
I just cant get by what Hopkins did to Pavlik and believe Arthur is skilled enough and has the athletic ability to put on a similar show.......I could be wrong, but I see Abraham knocking out the Ghost.....
You may be right. But Hopkins is just a freaky, old-school fighter, who put on the performance of a lifetime - a total virtuoso. Pavlik looked like an amateur in the ring with him. I couldn't believe what I was seeing. But lets face it, he was in the ring with arguably the greatest defensive fighter in the sport. Pavlik looked completely confused and just not the same man I watched fight Taylor twice.Quote:
Originally Posted by HunterQuote:
Originally Posted by The ShadowHonestly, Hunter, I haven't the slightest clue what you're talking about. Pavlik has "shaky whiskers"? He took 9 or 10 straight power shots from Taylor before hitting the canvas, got up, recovered an onslaught that would have had anyone else in the division out, and came back the next round like nothing ever happened.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hunter
The first Abraham v. Miranda fight was a joke: They might as well had Abraham's corner man in the ring hitting Miranda over the head with a bat with how corrupt that officiating was. If that fight would have happened state-side, Abraham would have been KO'd. I think anyone who is remotely fair couldn't possibly see it any other way.
I do think that Abraham is the more well-rounded fighter, but I think Pavlik has been in with the far better competition: Jermain Taylor twice, a Hopkins who got fuked out of a decision against Calzaghe and put on a clinic against an awe struck Pavlik. Pavlik and Miranda have a lot to prove. Let's just hope Pavlik doesn't opt for John Duddy, who doesn't belong in the same time zone as Pavlik, much less the same ring. However, I think that Pavlik wants the best out there, so I think Abraham is next on the radar after Rubio.
We'll see if Abraham has the balls to come state-side for the fight. After all, this is the Mecca of boxing, and there isn't a chance in hell of getting Pavlik to fight in Deutschland.
Whatever the case may be, the only two fights that I want to see is Pavlik v. Abraham and Pacquiao v. Mayweather.
I am of the opinion that Pavlik is overrated...I think he is a straight forward plodding fighter that has had his confidence seriously shaken by Hopkins and I dont think he is going to be the same fighter......Like I said before Pavlik has the mentality of I will take two from you to give you one of mine and typically that doesnt lead to a successful career......If Taylor would have relaxed for a minute and sat down on his punches after he hurt Pavlik rather than swinging around like a maniac he would have gotten Pavlik out of there IMHO......Taylor punched himself out in the first fight and THAT is the reason Pavlik got the KO.....In the second fight I believe Taylor gave Kelly too much respect for his power (but I guess I am not the one in there so it is easy for me to say;D)
I just cant get by what Hopkins did to Pavlik and believe Arthur is skilled enough and has the athletic ability to put on a similar show.......I could be wrong, but I see Abraham knocking out the Ghost.....
I don't agree that he's as plodding as you make him out to be. Perfect examples of plodding fighters are Margarito and Miranda. I think Kelly has much better defensive skills than you're letting on to, and he hits like a mule at 160lbs. However, there's a lot of room for improvement.
I would be surprised if Abraham could pull off a K.O. But I wouldn't be shocked if he got a decision. We'll just have to wait and see.
Agreed. It determines who really rains supreme at the middleweight division.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dean DukeI think it has to be made, Abraham's one tough hombre with a quality technique, it might come down too who can soak it up better, a great match up to look forward too.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Shadow
As much as I like Pavlik, I think the smurf can beat Pavlik and just maybe even knock him out. I would love to see this fight.
Not an over whelming depth at Middle right now,but Pavlik vs.Abrahams is a top bill.Mentally I think Pavlik has withstood,come back from Hopkins drubbing.But he has alot of patterns in style,Strong but a little mechanical,No changes tonight based off loss to Hopkins and can be countered,movement bothers him.If you stand still....he can hurt you.I think Abraham beats Pavlik,more diverse and can change up.
I think he's an Armenian Jew who just happens to fight out of Germany. He's not actually German, I don't think. :confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by CFH
I got Pavlik. I haven't seen much of Abraham, but his first fight with Miranda was such a criminal event he has to do alot to make up for it in my mind.
Pavlik has the reach, power, and work rate. His loss to Hopkins is water under the bridge and meaningless. He didn't show up that night for whatever reason, but it doesn't mean anything for Abraham. Pavlik 1-2's the smurf until the ref stops it, and gives him a break then takes points from Pavlik, then restarts the fight and takes points from Pavlik again everytime he lands a solid body shot.;D
Abraham stopped Miranda because Pavlik ko'd him. Once you've been ko'd it's easier to happen again. Pavlik softened him up. It's like Tito did to Mayorga, his beard got broken and he's been ko'd several times since.
Quote:
Originally Posted by XI think he's an Armenian Jew who just happens to fight out of Germany. He's not actually German, I don't think. :confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by CFH
I'm not so sure about the jew thing...he was Armenia,but has now german nationality,passport and stuff...Seems that this was possible after AA won the title...I think its the same as with soccer players and the country they play for...:-\
I know it's a stupid and irrelevant comparison, but Abraham would have gotten beaten from pillar to pillar by Hopkins also that night. So Pavlik losing to Hopkins has no bearing on this fight.
If Abraham can neutralize Pavlik's jab, he has a good chance. If he cannot, Pavlik will just fire away all night on him. Abraham does not exchange with fighters, instead he fights in rushes when others take little breaks. Pavlik does not take many breaks in there. Abraham would have to force exchanges to win because Pavlik controls range and blocks punches pretty well. If Abraham does force exchanges, his chances go up dramatically with his punching power.
The thing is, will he force exchanges and go for broke? He did not do it against lesser guys than Pavlik. I see Pavlik winning a fairly wide decision.