Both face overmatched opposition and won easily. Were you convinced they are back-to-normal? Did they do anything different? Anything better?
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Both face overmatched opposition and won easily. Were you convinced they are back-to-normal? Did they do anything different? Anything better?
It seems. Cotto had the better comeback performance. He deserved it. Kelly Pavlik is still his usual self. Good fight.
I think that they did.
They Cotto looked impressive when he turned it on.
Pavlik looked fine and back to the pre Hopkins Pavlik. I think it was just a blip. He was injured and and has weight issues. I said moving up was a bad idea for him. He had a more difficult fight when he moved to for Taylor 2.
There is a shadow over the Cotto Margarito fight, the doubts that cotto had about himself may have been eased by this.
They weren't tested fully I would like to see;
Cotto Vs Mosely
Pavlik Vs Abraham
I would be fully convinced then.
I think that they did.
They Cotto looked impressive when he turned it on.
Pavlik looked fine and back to the pre Hopkins Pavlik. I think it was just a blip. He was injured and and has weight issues. I said moving up was a bad idea for him. He had a more difficult fight when he moved to for Taylor 2.
There is a shadow over the Cotto Margarito fight, the doubts that cotto had about himself may have been eased by this.
They weren't tested fully I would like to see;
Cotto Vs Mosely
Pavlik Vs Abraham
I would be fully convinced then.
They did look good but to be fair neither opponent put up a great deal of resistance. It was only a matter of time before Jennings fell and Rubio looked glazed from the first round onwards.
Whilst they looked good, neither fight answered any of the questions that I actually have about them. I think Pavlik particularly has brought nothing new, for me he's the same fighter & would get exposed again if he fought a smart technical fighter. He still moves in straight lines way too much for a guy at his level. Cotto looked back to his usual self, but there again I have questions about how he would cope with the elite fighters out there, let's face it & I said it beforehand, Jennings isn't even the best welterweight in the UK, & IMO is not even good enough to compete at European level. He's a nice guy, but the fact is he just isn't good enough.
Thought Pavlik looked like the usual Pavlik. In fact he seemed a little slower/plodding than usual. But got the job done. There doesn't seem to be many threats at middleweight right now - apart from Abraham, who I think would beat him.
The way Cotto and trainer celebrated at the end of the 4th it was clear the win was very important mentally for him. Don't think he'll have any problem back up in top class.
Yeah - I mean the wins show us that neither guy is a shell of their former selves after their losses...but that is about it......
For me Cotto doesnt have as much to worry about, I mean the guy did have his moments in the Margarito fight and the beating Cotto gave Margarito could have softened Tony up for Mosley (so Cotto can take pleasure in that).....Plus Cotto in his mind can justify the loss by saying Tony cheated so i really think this win cleared Cotto's mind and he can put the loss behind him....
On the other hand, Pavlik showed he isnt finished either BUT Pavlik got beat Pillar to Post by Hopkins (Pavlik had ZERO moments in the fight)....That has to still be in his mind and the fact is Hopkins put out a road map to beat Pavlik that someone with the right tools (Abraham) can use to create a similar performance......I am tired of hearing people justify Pavlik's loss by saying Hopkins is just a genius and performed flawlessly yada yada yada....In the end Pavlik got beat down for 12 rounds and another top fighter with good defensive movement, stamina, fast hands, and decent power can recreate. Pavlik will still have nightmares about the loss to BHOP.....Of course this is IMHO........
I think so!
Cotto did exactly what he was supposed to do, knock Jennings out and in a great fashion. Being able to switch from a disciplined boxer and then out of nowhere turn into a beast is his what impresses me the most. His counter jab was on point and he cut off the ring with ease.
Rubio was "supposedly" a live underdog but Pavlik dominated quite easily. Being that Rubio walked into the ropes the entire fight, Pavlik should've laid him out within a couple of rounds. Pavlik threw a couple more body shots than I'm used to seeing him throw but other than that, he's still the same fighter.
I think both men put on performances needed to get their confidence back up but Cotto's was way more impressive.
I thought Cotto looked great practically every round. Sharp when he needed to be and a monster when he smelled blood.
Pavlik looked fantastic in the first round. He was mixing up his punches greatly. Showed good aggressiveness and decent speed(for Pavlik). After the first round though, Rubio kind of went into a deep shell and Pavlik lost his luster. It was more methodical after that and it hard to tell if it was due to Rubio's reluctance or Pavlik being frustrated for his inablility to land flush.
Imagine if, say, a pro baseball team went all the way to the World Series and lost all the games (sweep), do they go out and face college teams to show their fans that they are back?
I was entertained but not impressed:( .
I think the Margo scandal somehow boosted Cotto.
I don't know about Pavlik though.
Both looked good.
However, we won't really know anything until they're in a tough fight.
Pavlik:
Pavlik didn't seem improved, but that may be a result of his opponent. He wasn't fighting an opponent who circles and moves, which from the Bernard fight, apparently is the blueprint to beat him. On the other hand, although he was a stepping-stone opponent, Rubio is/was a top ten middleweight. Pavlik dispatched him with ease and given the dearth of talent in the middleweight division, Pavlik will rule it until he can't make weight a few years down the line. Pavlik has an established chin and a lot of pop, but this fight didn't show how he'll handle fighters with the skills to implement the Bhop blueprint.
Cotto:
Like Pavlik, Cotto didn't seem improved either, but again that may be the result of his opponent. Jennings wasn't anywhere near the top ten and wasn't a puncher. Jennings spent most of the time running and didn't touch Cotto's chin enough to persuade me he is back to his pre-Margarito days. Cotto, like Pavlik, looked great doing what he does, but to be sure about where he stands, I would like to see Cotto in the ring with a puncher.
Both got the win but against who???? Rubio and Jennings not really worldclass nevermind ELITE fighters we will know more when they fight a true top ten fighter Like Mosely or Clottey for Cotto and Abraham or even Duddy for Pavlik. See in these kind of fights both will have to use there mental strength and we will find out if they still have it or fall apart.
I think its really hard to tell, I haven't seen the Pavlik fight yet, but Cotto was so much superior to his opponent he didn't really have to do anything, I wish he was a little more aggressive, but I think he is trying to work on being a very technical fighter who doesn't have defensive lapses like he did against Margarito.
I think Cotto needed an opponent like Jennings on his first fight back after losing to Margarito. It's like getting back on the horse again after you've been thrown off. Now it's business as usual, and Miguel can concentrate on continuing to hone his skills and go after the other elite fighters at 147.
Both fighters looked the same to me.
Duddy? U cant be serious?Quote:
Originally Posted by Tysonbruno
Oh... so only YOUR favorite fighters are entitled for the common breather after a significant defeat. You're so predictable in your biases, it's almost comical.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chino
;)
Both looked good in return confidence builder fights just as they should have,,,,Neither faced a total piece of trash yet neither faced a real dangerous guy...The fights served their purpose...I think both will continue where they left off before the losses
I thought Pavlik looked nervous at first but the ten rounds did him good. Still no knee bends though, but he does what he does well. Cotto looked good. I think Arum will go for Duddy against Pavlik next time out andpick a Duddy-level guy for Cotto too before he puts either of them in with really top quality opposition though. If he does risk either one against a top guy it'd be Cotto.
Really? I thought Pavlik came out swinging in round 1! Whatever game plan Rubio had for Kelly went out the window in that first round. He did have spurts of putting his punches together but round 1 was his best overall round of the night.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing
Those imaginary baseballers wouldnt have had broken noses, bleeding faces and bruised ribs. They arent risking their career everytime they fight. Stupid comparison.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chino
I watched the fight having had a little bit to drink but I can distinctly remember him looking nervous before the first bell and starting the fight throwing a big left which missed by a mile followed by more nervousness. Then he started to look more like his old self.Quote:
Originally Posted by C-LoReally? I thought Pavlik came out swinging in round 1! Whatever game plan Rubio had for Kelly went out the window in that first round. He did have spurts of putting his punches together but round 1 was his best overall round of the night.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing
both fighters looked strong and pleased both venues. Congrats to Cotto and Pavlik.
Two very good comeback fights and boths rebuilding has begun.These were 'showcase' events,Though I actually thought Rubio would have some moments with boxing Pavlik but he was extremely passive from the opening bell and looked very under sized.Pavlik did exactly what he was predicted to do but to me ,he looked mechanical and repetitive down the stretch,especially when you consider he was getting very little resistance in return?Maybe we're all seeing his shortcomings,Imo,more clearly post the Hopkins clinic?Not bagging on the man,You cannot deny his strengh and power but he really looked the exact same with little adaptation.A fight with Abrahams would be awesome.
Had never seen Jennings prior,and he was given a HUGE opportunity against one of the games best today.But clearly,He was brought in for a showcase.It was the Minor leaguer getting the call to pitch in the big leagues for a night.He really was not expected to win the game,just get them through a couple of innings.Game,I believe he did what he could with what he had to offer.He could have stayed on the deck or in the corner,but got up and went on.I think Cotto needs a stern acid test and can fully recoup his status.All speculation and 'shadow' aside,he was defeated in style and endurance with Tony.He needs to sit stronger and commit in harsh combinations...and defiantly stay off of the ropes.Saturday he showed very nice Patients and timed things perfectly.Did not have that swagger....the showing of the right hand he did with Gomez and Tony early,where he seemed almost to comfortable.I think he'll totally rebuild physically and mentally & regain a strap.....his jab is great,left hook is brutal and his closing & cutting off the ring is much improved.A rematch with Mosley seems inevitable.
He definitely looked nervous before the bell. There was a lot on his plate. He just lost, he needs to have a great performance, it was a packed house where EVERYONE was routing for him, and his career was on the line. That's a lot of pressure!Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirkland LaingI watched the fight having had a little bit to drink but I can distinctly remember him looking nervous before the first bell and starting the fight throwing a big left which missed by a mile followed by more nervousness. Then he started to look more like his old self.Quote:
Originally Posted by C-LoReally? I thought Pavlik came out swinging in round 1! Whatever game plan Rubio had for Kelly went out the window in that first round. He did have spurts of putting his punches together but round 1 was his best overall round of the night.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing
I think the first round was one of, if not, the best round Pavlik had all night. He came out imposing his physicality and smothered Rubio with punches.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YNTBpspcwU0
Nope, I bashed ODLH as well for facing Forbes and LOOKING BAD and he didn't even come from a defeat such as Cotto's and Pavlik's. Does that sound biased?Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFanOh... so only YOUR favorite fighters are entitled for the common breather after a significant defeat. You're so predictable in your biases, it's almost comical.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chino
;)
Quote:
I think Cotto needed an opponent like Jennings on his first fight back after losing to Margarito. It's like getting back on the horse again after you've been thrown off. Now it's business as usual
Now you are saying that Cotto's victory against a bum shows that he's back in business? And you were saying I was biased.
A I foresee a horrible KO coming Duddy's way.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing
Yes I agree, Once Duddy steps in with a top level fighter in their prime I see him getting starched in very dramitic fashion, The guy has the worst defense I have seen in yearsQuote:
Originally Posted by Howlin Mad MissyA I foresee a horrible KO coming Duddy's way.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing
He is a damn site better than Rubio and will make a fight of it.Quote:
Originally Posted by eagleDuddy? U cant be serious?Quote:
Originally Posted by Tysonbruno
Difference between him and DLH is... Cotto won, and won big. That Jennings was subpar? Absolutely. But Cotto displayed his boxing skills and power and did what was expected. And my saying "it's business as usual" merely means that Cotto can now set his sights on the division's elite once again. Yeah, I can see my bias all over that statement.Quote:
Originally Posted by ChinoNope, I bashed ODLH as well for facing Forbes and LOOKING BAD and he didn't even come from a defeat such as Cotto's and Pavlik's. Does that sound biased?Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFanOh... so only YOUR favorite fighters are entitled for the common breather after a significant defeat. You're so predictable in your biases, it's almost comical.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chino
;)
Yeah... don't forget. He fought the smaller Forbes, and looked BAD. Then he fought the smaller Pacquiao, and got his A$$ kicked. Notice a trend? What a pitiful end to a career if ever I saw one.
Quote:
I think Cotto needed an opponent like Jennings on his first fight back after losing to Margarito. It's like getting back on the horse again after you've been thrown off. Now it's business as usual
Now you are saying that Cotto's victory against a bum shows that he's back in business? And you were saying I was biased.
:rolleyes:
id say that theyve definitley got over their losses. both seem like very strong willed guys.
[quote=TitoFan;693272]you mean just as pitiful as Trinidad's? going straight into retirement after having his ass handed to him in dominant fashion against B-Hop (oh wait sorry he did so after a weak comeback against Cherifi), only to come back out of retirement and beat up on a welterweight, in a middleweight bout, get whooped for 12 lopsided rounds by Wright, run off crying again to daddy and retires again, saying he'll never fight again, only to come back for the 3rd time, and get whooped by an old, shot, and merciful Roy Jones Jr. (watch the fight if you don't know what i'm talking about, Jones let Trinidad finish the fight out of mercy, he could have finished him in the 6th), hell at least De La Hoya came back from his bullshit loss to Trinidad and won multiple legit world titles after his losses, something Trinidad never did doQuote:
Originally Posted by ChinoNope, I bashed ODLH as well for facing Forbes and LOOKING BAD and he didn't even come from a defeat such as Cotto's and Pavlik's. Does that sound biased?Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFan
Yeah... don't forget. He fought the smaller Forbes, and looked BAD. Then he fought the smaller Pacquiao, and got his A$$ kicked. Notice a trend? What a pitiful end to a career if ever I saw one.
[quote=ElTerribleMorales;693281]Hey, I realize you probably got monogrammed kneepads from DLH for Christmas, but stop being in denial over the cowardly way he went after the smaller guys, only to be humiliated by a thorough ass-whipping by Pacquiao. At least Trinidad lost to naturally bigger fighters (not to mention future HOF'ers). Oh yeah... I forgot DLH's fight against BHop, the hilarious canvas-punching charade from the glancing liver shot. Don't get your panties bunched in a wad, Terrible. And BTW, your avatar confuses me. What's with the PR flag?Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFanyou mean just as pitiful as Trinidad's? going straight into retirement after having his ass handed to him in dominant fashion against B-Hop (oh wait sorry he did so after a weak comeback against Cherifi), only to come back out of retirement and beat up on a welterweight, in a middleweight bout, get whooped for 12 lopsided rounds by Wright, run off crying again to daddy and retires again, saying he'll never fight again, only to come back for the 3rd time, and get whooped by an old, shot, and merciful Roy Jones Jr. (watch the fight if you don't know what i'm talking about, Jones let Trinidad finish the fight out of mercy, he could have finished him in the 6th), hell at least De La Hoya came back from his bullshit loss to Trinidad and won multiple legit world titles after his losses, something Trinidad never did doQuote:
Originally Posted by Chino
[quote=TitoFan;693454]cause unlike you i don't let my nationality blindside me to see who has accomplished more in their actual career, i'm 100% Puerto Rican and no no soy unos de estos mamones de Nueva York q pq tienen herencia Puertorrique~a se creen boricuas de verdad, soy 100% de el Jardin Del Atlantico Aguadilla PR, DLH accomplished more in his carreer than Trinidad, and yea he took on smaller opponants but he took on smaller opponants that were p4p fighters (barring Forbes), and in Pacquiao's case, he went down in weight, something Tito wasn't willing to do when his ass was being given a gift from Arum, a chance to fight Pavlik at 160 for the Middleweight Championship of the world, what did Tito say "i can't make weight":rolleyes: way to chicken out, if DLH at 35 could boil down to 154 and even go to 147 Trinidad who's more a natural Jr. Middleweight than anything, could make 160 if he would actually dedicate himself and stop eating so much pernil, tostones, and arroz con gandules, Titofan you gotta wash Trinidad's nut juice out of your eyes and cope with the fact that Trinidad is second tier to DLHQuote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMoralesHey, I realize you probably got monogrammed kneepads from DLH for Christmas, but stop being in denial over the cowardly way he went after the smaller guys, only to be humiliated by a thorough ass-whipping by Pacquiao. At least Trinidad lost to naturally bigger fighters (not to mention future HOF'ers). Oh yeah... I forgot DLH's fight against BHop, the hilarious canvas-punching charade from the glancing liver shot. Don't get your panties bunched in a wad, Terrible. And BTW, your avatar confuses me. What's with the PR flag?Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFan
[quote=ElTerribleMorales;693981]Do me a favor clown... don't call yourself Puerto Rican, ok? You're discrediting the race. Unlike you, I own up to my fighters' weaknesses. If anyone does any nuthugging around here, it's you, and your blatant hatred for all Puerto Rican fighters. So save your rhetoric for someone who gives a damn, ok sport?Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFancause unlike you i don't let my nationality blindside me to see who has accomplished more in their actual career, i'm 100% Puerto Rican and no no soy unos de estos mamones de Nueva York q pq tienen herencia Puertorrique~a se creen boricuas de verdad, soy 100% de el Jardin Del Atlantico Aguadilla PR, DLH accomplished more in his carreer than Trinidad, and yea he took on smaller opponants but he took on smaller opponants that were p4p fighters (barring Forbes), and in Pacquiao's case, he went down in weight, something Tito wasn't willing to do when his ass was being given a gift from Arum, a chance to fight Pavlik at 160 for the Middleweight Championship of the world, what did Tito say "i can't make weight":rolleyes: way to chicken out, if DLH at 35 could boil down to 154 and even go to 147 Trinidad who's more a natural Jr. Middleweight than anything, could make 160 if he would actually dedicate himself and stop eating so much pernil, tostones, and arroz con gandules, Titofan you gotta wash Trinidad's nut juice out of your eyes and cope with the fact that Trinidad is second tier to DLHQuote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMorales
BTW chickenshit... it takes more "cojones" to go after the lions than it takes to go after the field mice. Tito went after the big middleweights (Hopkins, Winky), and even went after a light heavyweight (Roy Jones Jr.). "Oscarito" went after the midgets, seeking to cement his damn legacy, and got his a$$ handed to him. Nothing you say will change that. And change your damn avatar. You're not worthy to carry that around.
pendejito, por que no te cabe otra palabra, i don't have to prove shit to you, and i don't discredit our fighters, i just don't build them up to be something they're not if they in fact aren't, Cotto is p4p one of the best fighters in the world, i've been saying he'd be awesome at welter since he fought Brown, which was his 12th pro fight i believe and his first fight since the car accident, only negative thing i say bout Cotto is that he's not the best fighter on the island, that son, goes to Calderon, he's possbily the most skillful fighter in the history of boxing in Puerto Rico, only other person who IMO beats him in skill and technique is Benitez, but you're so blindsided to the fighters q tienen la mancha de platano that you're capable of saying Daniel Santos, Cintron, and De Leon Jr. can be #1 in they're divisions :rolleyes:, i man up and say who in fact are the better fighters doesn't matter the race or nationality, go lick Ruiz's balls, he's the first latino HW champion remember?!? theres another one for your record books :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFan