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Just trying to gauge opinion on this really. Im not well up on the rules behind it, I think ive only witnessed 1 no contest and it was a long time ago.
It just seemed a wee bit odd to me that it should be allowed to go just long enough to go to the cards for a cut that happened in the 1st round. Or was this fairly standard procedure? Do they generally try to let it go long enough to get a scorecard outcome? As I said im not really up on no contest rules etc so ive not formed a concrete opinion.
Barrera and his team elected to fight on.
If he couldn't see and it was affecting him he should have told the doctor and his team should have made it clear.
They are all experienced pro's and they presumably gambled on the fact that Marco would win the early rounds and if the fight was stopped later win a technical decision.
It didn't happen for them and that's their responsibility.
The referee is only responsible for ensuring the safety of the fighter and he does that by consulting with the doctor and asking the fighter if he can continue.
Evidently he did that so if Barrera says he's ok to fight on and loses it's down to his choice.
Barrera should have stopped earlier and settled it as a NC. I think he is just too proud and thought he could battle on through, no way he was lasting 12 rounds with that wound though. They couldn't stop the bleeding and its untenable that he could go a whole fight like that. In the moment things happen so quickly and Barrera and his corner got caught. We all knew Khan would start quick and I'm sure Barrera was aware of this, so I find it hard to imagine he was going the 4 rounds to try and steal it on the scorecards. Barrera was always going to come on as the fight progressed later on.
I say Barrera's team should have taken the NC, but it wasn't to be.
NO doubt what so ever that fight should have been stopped in the 3rd round the cut was too horrible to let them fight. They did that intentionally to let his guy get an easy W. Don't get me wrong I like Khan.
"They" as in Barerra and his tream which elected to fight on?Quote:
Originally Posted by Puya
Quote:
Originally Posted by Puya
What are you talking about, the cut was ruled by a headbutt so it was entirely down to Barrera to continue. If he'd have said he couldn't see the doctor and referee would have stopped the fight.
In the case of cuts and hometown decisions it's the other way around, the local fighter gets cut and so they save him by calling it a no contest, or in Germany and you are knocking the shit out of the champ (as Green did to Beyer) they will just disqualify the other guy.
But you can't force a fighter to fight on when an accidental clash of heads has opened up a dangerous wound.
It's entirely 100% BARRERA AND HIS TEAM'S fault that they lost due to a technical points decision after 5 rounds.
I tihnk definatly it should. The Ref and Doctor should of took the decision out of Barreras hands and called it off, the blood wasnt trickling into his eyes it was pouring.
But every credit to a massive warrior, im sure the doc highly recommended he called it quits and Barrera said give me a round to try knock him out.
It was a proper big fight with big undercard, big hype, big audience and no doubt big tv figures. He wanted it be be a real fight with a real result.
But to the critical viewing public, especially the ones lookin for Khan to answer some questions it was a NO CONTEST anyway. Way too many if's from before the fight are still there.
Barrera surely has way too much experience to allow another defeat onto his record. He had to have thoguht he could beat Kahn and snatch the W. If he wanted it stopped he could have complained ages before it was actually stopped and got an NC leadin to a rematch.
Agree with Bilbo & themacmagician, if Barrera wanted it called a NC he should have made it clear beforehand, the fact is he didnt, he appeared to want to fight on when they talked to him in the 4th, thus Khan got the win & deservedly so in my eyes.
The fight should have been a No Contest. But Barrera was too stubborn and too proud to let that happen.
It was a nasty cut but it could have been in a worse spot.
Did it affect MAB? No doubt. But Khan was going to have his way last night cut or no cut imo.
Khan deserved the win. No need for a rematch.
MAB has enough scalps and this lose is not going to have any kind of negative impact on his record.
I feel the win benefits Khan, but apparently the guy can do no right to some people.
Barrera had the opportunity to obtain the NC at the fourth round, but he choose to keep fighting as a great champion he had been and tried to get a clean win. In that effort he got the doctor stoppage later, which was the right doctor's decision, and he was loosing on the score cards. I voted for the NC because the cut was due to a headbut, but really the fight had to go to the scorecards because that is the rule. He needed the NC at the fouth. However, Barrera has my respect because he preferred to fight as great warrior he is, but that decision did not favor him.
Barrera is past his prime, but I believe he deserves a rematch (for respect to his legacy) and see what happens after 7 or 8 rounds of action. If he looses then he should go to definite retirement, and enjoy his family.
I think Kahn was being protected a bit in the fight, although he fought well. Some things just dont add up. When Barrera was looked at by the doc the first time, there was a long conversation. We dont know what was said, but the fight was let to continue. I do think there was some confusion between Marco and the doctor and ref. In the corner after round 4 is the latest the fight should have been stopped. 1. because the cut was bad, 2. so it didnt go to the cards. Barrera had already fought 3 rounds that he shouldnt have had to. After the fight, Barrera showed his frusteration, and said it should have been stopped sooner. To everyone saing that Barrera was pleading to continue and said he was ok to continue, I dont remember hearing him say that. Of course he wanted to continue as he is a a warrior, but if the doctor had said in round 2, 3 or 4, "are you ok to continue, if you can not it will be ruled a NC not a TKO because the cut was from an accidental headbutt" and Barerra understood Barerra may have not continued past 4. I think there was a communication problem. Plus the ref brought MAB to the doctor again just as Barerra landed a couple of punches on Kahn that seemed to bother him in rd. 5, thats when it was stopped. My question is why not earlier.
Yeh the fight should have been called a no contest.
We all saw that that cut was dripping/POURING blood into Barrera's eye and wether you want to believe it or not that plays a big role in any fight.
Barrera would of had every reason to of withdrawn himself with a cut so bad so early into the fight but being the man he is he chose to fight on and take his lumps just to keep everyone happy.
Make no qualms that khan was the better man on the night and pretty sure with or without the cut fighting like that would of eventually stopped barrera at some point.
But still you cant help but think khan won by default :mad:
There are good stoppages,and BS stoppages,that would have been a good stoppage,the guy was fighting with one eye in there.He had a Tom Savini special effect over his eye.
Nothing but respect for him being a warrior and wanting to go on,but the blood was going directly in to his eye
It annoys me how little credit Khan is getting in the light of this though.
The cut was bad but plenty of fighters have been cut or injured worse than that and still fought on and won.
Look at the hell Vargas gave Mosely with only one eye, how Sergio Mora rallied against Peter Manfredo after suffering a horrific cut early, how Arthur Abraham beat Edison Miranda with his jaw hanging off of his face. Danny Williams beating Mark Potter with a dislocated shoulder.
Barrera got DOMINATED from the very first bell.
You can argue that a prime Barrera kills Khan, that a Barrera fighting in his proper weight class kills Khan but its an inescapable fact that a 35 year Barrera after 70 fights, fighting at lightweight against a younger, faster, stronger man gets DOMINATED.
Sad, but true.
I voted yes. Regardless of Barrera's willingness to fight on till the 5th round, it's the ref's job and the doctor's job (and probably even the corner's job) to know when the fight should not continue. The blood was constantly pouring into MAB's eye, and clearly affecting the fight, regardless of what MAB's corner was doing to try to stop the bleeding. Yes, it should've been a NC.
That cut was terrible and definitely ruined the fight. It's not the actual injury that's the problem.. it's the blood pissing into his eye blinding him. Just check how many times he was wiping the blood from his eye, that is a huge concentration killer.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo
Khan was never gonna get credit from the "hardcores" ;)
All this no-contest stuff is bollocks.
All those crying about it wouldn't be had Barrera knocked him spark-out.. I bet you all would have been praising the ref/doc/corner for letting it carry on :rolleyes:
How does saying it should've been a NC equate to being anti-Khan? Khan was doing a GREAT job. But unfortunately, there was a clash of heads that caused a huge gash that was pumping out blood and affecting Barrera's ability to fight normally. This is no knock on Khan. Get a grip, Khanites. Khan's good and will continue to rise. (He's a bit chinny, so he has to be careful of that). But boxing is unpredictable, and unfortunately for all, the clash of heads changed everything.
Exactly what I thought, if Khan got caught with the headbutt and had got a NC, people would no doubt been calling him a fag/pussy/biitch for not fighting on. If he had and had lost people would've just said, 'he had his chance to quit'.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
Khan's not a bit chinny he's shockingly chinny.Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFan
Had the fight been declared a NC it would have been great for Barrera's record (and my betting slip). But the fact is it wasn't. Barrera was given the chance to exploit that unbelievably fragile chin. He didn't. He couldn't. He ran out of time. That's the way she goes. ;)
All this talk of Barrera wanting the No-contest he should have quit in the second round,I`m not 100 percent sure but,if Barrera or his team quit before the 4th,it would have been ruled A tko LOSS for barrera,and not A nc,I believe that this is what the ref and ringside guy was telling him in his ear.I could be wrong but either way the fight is tainted because of that gash PERIOD,sorry Khan fans,and anyway not too much should be made if Khan got A clean victory over Marco,the guy is 35 years old,has plates in his head,has been in some of the fiercest wars,and was fighting last night outside of his weight class,against A much bigger opponent,after saying all that,i must say that last night was the first time I have seen Khan,and he looks Dam good to me,one of the strongest looking Lightweights I have ever seen,Great speed,hard punches,could be very tough for anybody he fights.I dont hold his KO loss against him,anybody can get caught in A Fight and get stopped,just ask Vic Dar,and look what he has gone on to do.
if the doctor would have stopped it by the 3rd which i think he should have well yes, but Barrera and his corner elected to go on, so their own fault that it ended up a TD5 for Khan, kinda reminds me of Tyson/Williams, Mike basically had Danny Williams out of there until he hurt his knee, should have spoken up and left it a NC but well that's how shit goes
maybe,you`re missing the point,what I mean is,if Barrera decided he did`nt want to fight on BEFORE the fourth it would have been ruled A TKO loss for him,so,...sure he did`nt want to quit,...Anywat it does`nt really matter if Barrera wanted to quit or not,with A cut like that NO fighter can be expected to fight up to his value,it looked to me that Khan was gonna dominate the fight,He`s flat out to big and strong and young for Barrera at this point,that`s why IMO A big deal should not be made of it,even if the cut never occured.At this point like Warren said Khan should be able to beat Barrera at this point.All of Barrera`s Exp. is more of A detrament than A asset at this point.
no it wouldn't have been ruled a TKO loss for him, it would have simply been ruled a NO CONTEST, the cut came from an accidental headbutt not a punch, same as the Robert Guerrero fight last week, Barrera has one more loss on his record cause of his pride, and suprisingly enough i admire his and respect him a lot more because of it, he decided to fight on, even though he was given a justified scapegoatQuote:
Originally Posted by TeleTuff
True enough he fought on, but afterwards he moaned about it and tried to backpeddle.Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMoralesno it wouldn't have been ruled a TKO loss for him, it would have simply been ruled a NO CONTEST, the cut came from an accidental headbutt not a punch, same as the Robert Guerrero fight last week, Barrera has one more loss on his record cause of his pride, and suprisingly enough i admire his and respect him a lot more because of it, he decided to fight on, even though he was given a justified scapegoatQuote:
Originally Posted by TeleTuff
Not giving Amir any credit whatsoever as well wasn't all that classy.
He's a legend no doubt but he got completely dominated on Saturday.
The cut just allows him to save face imo.
Bilbo do you think that if Khan was badly heabutted and couldnt see punches coming but Barrera was fine and saw that Khan was there for the taking . Do you think we would have seen a slightly different fight?Quote:
Originally Posted by BilboTrue enough he fought on, but afterwards he moaned about it and tried to backpeddle.Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMoralesno it wouldn't have been ruled a TKO loss for him, it would have simply been ruled a NO CONTEST, the cut came from an accidental headbutt not a punch, same as the Robert Guerrero fight last week, Barrera has one more loss on his record cause of his pride, and suprisingly enough i admire his and respect him a lot more because of it, he decided to fight on, even though he was given a justified scapegoatQuote:
Originally Posted by TeleTuff
Not giving Amir any credit whatsoever as well wasn't all that classy.
He's a legend no doubt but he got completely dominated on Saturday.
The cut just allows him to save face imo.
Sure we would, Barrera would have battered him silly, we just wouldnt have had a chorus of 'poor Amir, should have been a NC'.
Good performance from Amir, much improved, not as improved as Jim Watt would have us believe but improved nonetheless ;D
Now if he could just stop trying to lead with a right uppercut from 8 feet away and sticking his hands in the air every time he successfully negotiates a clip on the chin I'll be happy.
I reviewed the RBR on the other thread and didn't clearly read posts that called to stop the fight from rounds 2 onwards... maybe except for CMM's postings...
This could be the same feeling of Team Barrera not calling to stop the fight hoping MAB can land something big that could turn the fight around...
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Originally Posted by Memphis
That's because he has about 5 fans on here;D
Missy, you're back, I was worried you might have gone on some rampage after the other night ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Howlin Mad MissyQuote:
Originally Posted by Memphis
That's because he has about 5 fans on here;D
I didn't watch it on tv or streamed nor have I been able to watch it on replay yet. But I was ringside and as you all know watching something close up give a different perspective than tv...I'll be able to re-evaluate the other side when I watch it on tv.
As soon as the cut opened up I turned to the side and called it. The fight will be stopped. There was no doubt about that. It was too big and pouring of blood.
Barrera was stepping back to take the time to wipe the blood out of his eye and on to his shorts. In the clinches he was screwing up his eyes. It was clearly a big problem.
Yes Amir had improved but we didn't actually learn alot. The cut changed everything.
I was expecting the fight to be waved off when the doctor first looked at it...can you imagine the uproar at that?
El Terrible is also correct - pride has cost him loses before. I know some of you will think I'm making excuses for my fighter but the circumstances round his big loses....if he was an undercard fighter chances are he wouldn't have fought. He did through expectation and pride.
How many fighters who are in no condition to continue volunteer to quit? Not too many. You know why? Because they get called quitters, might as well call them cowards and pole smokers while you're about it.
Well done Amir you got a win over a man with one eye.
I'm impressed as much as I was by your fans calling you a legend, saying its payback for naseem and chanting who are ya at a true Legend. I do agree with one thing I heard one your clowns say....bring on marquez:-X
I did nearly smack some glasses wearing paddy who was getting in my face when I turned to correct him that it was a new cut on his forehead and not the old one. He was most insistant that despite his need for corrective lenses he was correct. I on the otherhand was merely dealing with facts.Quote:
Originally Posted by JazMerkinMissy, you're back, I was worried you might have gone on some rampage after the other night ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Howlin Mad MissyQuote:
Originally Posted by Memphis
That's because he has about 5 fans on here;D
What my concern about that cut is, it's where a metal plate was implanted in Barrera's skull years ago...
http://xs137.xs.to/xs137/09121/mabcut446.jpg
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Watt does get carried away at times.Quote:
Originally Posted by Memphis
I couldn't believe it in the 4th round (i tink) Watt said something like - "Khans chin problem has been solved, he doesn't get hit on it anymore" ;D.. i'm sure I heard Ian Darke gulp.
Lucky Jim swerved the commentators curse this time.
I won't deny I was impressed by Khan, he did what he needed to do, but it was sad to see MAB go out like that. I thought what he showed would have had him beating Barrera regardless, who to my eyes is just not what he once was. I won't deny the cut making a difference, but I won't take away from Khan for that, he didn't change his gameplan one bit based on the cut, and just kept doing it, and what the fight really told me is that MAB is just not built to be a Lightweight.Quote:
Originally Posted by Howlin Mad Missy
If Khan's fans were doing that it's embarassing, if Naz wants revenge he should come back himself & MAB would still beat him. It really pisses me off how people (incl. Khan's fans) keep trying to draw the two of them together, as it only reflects badly on Khan who's a nice kid, whereas Naz was a cock. Fortunately Roach & Warren are too smart to stick Khan in with JMM, who I think is going up to Light-Welter.
As embarassing as it is people sayin that shit at MAB, who after his career deserves so much better, it is in my mind no different & possibly motivated by the reception Khan got when he came in. When that happened, that was the only moment that I thought he might lose during the whole of this build-up.
Anyways, I do hope that you still got something out of the evening, at least actually seeing Barrera :)
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Originally Posted by SaddoBoxer
you know. seeing that. I can totally see why Bilbo thinks he was being a pussy.
Jim Watt has to be one of the worst commentators of all time. I never get why they don't give it to Johnny Nelson, as he seems the only one of Sky who can offer insight without sounding like a biased pompous buffoon, and he's generally the one to call fights right.Quote:
Originally Posted by FensterWatt does get carried away at times.Quote:
Originally Posted by Memphis
I couldn't believe it in the 4th round (i tink) Watt said something like - "Khans chin problem has been solved, he doesn't get hit on it anymore" ;D.. i'm sure I heard Ian Darke gulp.
Lucky Jim swerved the commentators curse this time.
I still remember Watt in the Mayweather fight, suggesting that the judges might have Hatton ahead at the time of the stoppage. Comedy gold in a fight that at best Hatton was winning 3 rounds of