Refs who stop fights to early : The most annoying thing in boxing ?

Maybe it's just a British thing but I'm sick of this. I just watched the Nicky Cook - Roman Martinez fight on the Amir Khan - Marco Antonio Barrera bill. Here was a world champion (Nicky Cook) defending his title for the 1st time on home soil. He gets knocked down (Not particularly heavily) twice yet the British referee, as per usual, panics and stops the fight after the 2nd knockdown. Watch the round again yourself and see if you agree with me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fuougNWrWWE
This is boxing !! It's not a tickling contest (Ricky Hatton 05). In fact it's not just here in the UK. I have seen a few examples in states, the most famous, the Kostya Tszyu Vs Zab Judah fight. A fighter should be given every chance, it only takes a while before a boxer clears his hand.

I remember the Manny Pacquiao - Juan Manuel Marquez fight. Marquez gets knocked down THREE times in the first round, BUT ref Joe Cortez lets it continue, Marquez recovers and goes on to give Pacquiao the closest fight of his life, earning a draw (Most people though he won) if that same fight was fought in the UK, the UK ref would have stopped it by the second knock down. I just think referees should think more, fighters get knocked down all the time in sparring sessions, they don't say “That's it, no more sparring today” they just pick themselves up and carry on. These referees just spoil boxing.

Yeah... the nerve of that ref in stopping the Martinez-Cook fight. Especially when Cook bounced right up from those grazing shots. Hey, it's not like Cook's head actually came off his shoulders or anything like that. Geez... where do they GET these refs anyway, huh?

Have only seen the last round but he was clearly finished.I dont think it was the initial KDs,the 1st was brutal...but Cooks inability to gather his legs and 'self'.Technically he beat the count,all guts,big heart.....But I'd much rather too soon (dont think it was really) as opposed the too late.No need to see more tragedys.

I'd rather see warriors join their family at home after brave performance, than see them in the morgue.

Too early?
Cooks relatively young and there's no need to let him go on and continue to get hammered.
He was done.

Your JMM comparison does not work and here's why.
JMM at NOT point did he look groggy or out of it.

knockdown#1 JMM get's up at the count of 2.
knockdown#2 JMM get's up at the count of 2.
knockdown#3 JMM get's up at the count of 8.
(I'm certain JMM could have gotten up sooner but he was leying there just thinking to himself... Ohhh! shit I better get it together)

So you see the knockdowns JMM suffered were not as brutal and devastating as Cookies.

You said and I quote:
"He gets knocked down (Not particularly heavily) twice"

Watch knockdown#1 and notice how he's trying to get up by holding on the rope and notice his RIGHT leg kicking a bit trying to get it to go but it wouldn't which is why it took him until the count of 9 to get up.

For knockdown#2 he goes in dive mode and almost lands face 1st on the canvas but his forearms hold him from that. He beats the count but you can see he's hurt. To let him continue would be like to tie his hands up and let Martinez take free shots.

I just think it would have been useless to let him continue and yes this is boxing BUT a boxers safety comes 1st and he'll be fine. He goes home losing the title and nothing more which he should be thankful for.

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Originally Posted by TitoFan

Yeah... the nerve of that ref in stopping the Martinez-Cook fight. Especially when Cook bounced right up from those grazing shots. Hey, it's not like Cook's head actually came off his shoulders or anything like that. Geez... where do they GET these refs anyway, huh?

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By the way, just so I don't get misunderstood by those who don't know me... I forgot to add one thing to the post:

:Sarcasm:

You think the Zab Judah fight was a quick stoppage?

Zab was stumbling around the ring..... and went down twice from the one punch....

The knockdowns in Pac/JMM werent the same, JMM went down but he got up and didnt have a blank look on his face or rubbery legs...........

I just watched, I dont think that was a quick stoppage...Cook looked pretty hurt........

I agree - I cant stand quick stoppages (like Calzaghe/Manfredo).......This was an okay stoppage in my book....

Come on now.. those were two heavy knockdowns. He struggled to get up both times.

Thank fuck we didn't see the oxygen mask in there.

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Originally Posted by denilson200

Maybe it's just a British thing but I'm sick of this. I just watched the Nicky Cook - Roman Martinez fight on the Amir Khan - Marco Antonio Barrera bill. Here was a world champion (Nicky Cook) defending his title for the 1st time on home soil. He gets knocked down (Not particularly heavily) twice yet the British referee, as per usual, panics and stops the fight after the 2nd knockdown. Watch the round again yourself and see if you agree with me.

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So far you seem to be all alone in your outrageously off-base opinion. Cook himself would probably laugh at you.

;)

Cook was gone, he struggled up both times, just making the count, and although there was limited time left, another punch could seriously have hurt him.

The Zab Judah fight is an atrocious example, because the second he fell back down he lost the fight. If you get to your feet and fall back down you've lost the fight. That's why people always recommend taking your time getting back up, and why often guys wait till 8 even if they don't really need to.

As for the JMM thing, I refer you back up to CutMeMick's post

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Originally Posted by JazMerkin

Cook was gone, he struggled up both times, just making the count, and although there was limited time left, another punch could seriously have hurt him.

The Zab Judah fight is an atrocious example, because the second he fell back down he lost the fight. If you get to your feet and fall back down you've lost the fight. That's why people always recommend taking your time getting back up, and why often guys wait till 8 even if they don't really need to.

As for the JMM thing, I refer you back up to CutMeMick's post

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I agree - If Zab would have kept his cool and collected himself he may have been able to get up before the 10 count (and I say May)....Instead he jumped up, did the chicken dance and fell back down.....What could the ref do??

it was a justified stoppage, this was no Ortiz/Arnaoutis, and if you're honestly trying to make Cortez out to be a great ref all i gotta say is Humberto Soto Vs. Francisco Lorenzo I

Sorry mate, he was gone. Cook would have only been hurt again in the next round, his legs were all over the place. He can fight another day.

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Originally Posted by denilson200

Maybe it's just a British thing but I'm sick of this. I just watched the Nicky Cook - Roman Martinez fight on the Amir Khan - Marco Antonio Barrera bill. Here was a world champion (Nicky Cook) defending his title for the 1st time on home soil. He gets knocked down (Not particularly heavily) twice yet the British referee, as per usual, panics and stops the fight after the 2nd knockdown. Watch the round again yourself and see if you agree with me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fuougNWrWWE
This is boxing !! It's not a tickling contest (Ricky Hatton 05). In fact it's not just here in the UK. I have seen a few examples in states, the most famous, the Kostya Tszyu Vs Zab Judah fight. A fighter should be given every chance, it only takes a while before a boxer clears his hand.

I remember the Manny Pacquiao - Juan Manuel Marquez fight. Marquez gets knocked down THREE times in the first round, BUT ref Joe Cortez lets it continue, Marquez recovers and goes on to give Pacquiao the closest fight of his life, earning a draw (Most people though he won) if that same fight was fought in the UK, the UK ref would have stopped it by the second knock down. I just think referees should think more, fighters get knocked down all the time in sparring sessions, they don't say “That's it, no more sparring today” they just pick themselves up and carry on. These referees just spoil boxing.

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I have said this before, Zab Judah should thank Jay Nady for saving his life that night and pro longing his career, as it is Judah has never fully recovered from that fight and has never been the same since.

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Originally Posted by CutMeMick

Too early?
Cooks relatively young and there's no need to let him go on and continue to get hammered.
He was done.

Your JMM comparison does not work and here's why.
JMM at NOT point did he look groggy or out of it.

knockdown#1 JMM get's up at the count of 2.
knockdown#2 JMM get's up at the count of 2.
knockdown#3 JMM get's up at the count of 8.
(I'm certain JMM could have gotten up sooner but he was leying there just thinking to himself... Ohhh! shit I better get it together)

So you see the knockdowns JMM suffered were not as brutal and devastating as Cookies.

You said and I quote:
"He gets knocked down (Not particularly heavily) twice"

Watch knockdown#1 and notice how he's trying to get up by holding on the rope and notice his RIGHT leg kicking a bit trying to get it to go but it wouldn't which is why it took him until the count of 9 to get up.

For knockdown#2 he goes in dive mode and almost lands face 1st on the canvas but his forearms hold him from that. He beats the count but you can see he's hurt. To let him continue would be like to tie his hands up and let Martinez take free shots.

I just think it would have been useless to let him continue and yes this is boxing BUT a boxers safety comes 1st and he'll be fine. He goes home losing the title and nothing more which he should be thankful for.

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This.

Cook was finished, he was badly hurt both times. The ref did the right thing and I can't believe someone would complain about it. Any decent ref (Smoger, Bayless etc.) would've stopped that fight.

He was wandering all over Queer Street

Cmon he barely made the count both times,we arent talking a 4 count stoppage,we're talking 2 9 + counts within seconds of each other

It was a good stoppage. He would not have been able to defend himself if the ref let it go on he could have been seriously hurt.

Bad stoppage if you ask me

Im all for refs protecting a fighter from getting badly hurt, but this still boxing and a certain amount of punishment has to be sacrificed in order for it not to lose its entertainment value.

No way Nicky Cook would of won that fight from there on in had the ref of allowed him to continue. But if your up at 9 and hold your gloves up i see no reason why the fight should be stopped???


Where would the history of the sport today have been had the ref of stopped buster douglas who got up at a very late 9 and looked completely out of it but went on to KO Mike Tyson 2 rounds later???

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Originally Posted by hattonthehammer

No way Nicky Cook would of won that fight from there

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So good stoppage no?

The way Cook went over particularly from the second one was quite frightening actually, he literally wilted.

Watched this a few times.Difficult to call. Maybe we should change the quistion.

A fight should be stopped when a fighter is deemed "unable to protect himself"

Did cook look unable to protect himself when he got up?

He looked ok to continue to me.And this is hardly one of them Cotto VS Gomes match-ups.I'd give the champ a proper chance to defend his title

Not to be trite, but better early than late. :deadnew:

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Originally Posted by Tins06

Watched this a few times.Difficult to call. Maybe we should change the quistion.

A fight should be stopped when a fighter is deemed "unable to protect himself"

Did cook look unable to protect himself when he got up?

He looked ok to continue to me.And this is hardly one of them Cotto VS Gomes match-ups.I'd give the champ a proper chance to defend his title

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If your down for two 9 counts in a row,you are unable to protect yourself

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Originally Posted by Tilt A Whirl

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Originally Posted by Tins06

Watched this a few times.Difficult to call. Maybe we should change the quistion.

A fight should be stopped when a fighter is deemed "unable to protect himself"

Did cook look unable to protect himself when he got up?

He looked ok to continue to me.And this is hardly one of them Cotto VS Gomes match-ups.I'd give the champ a proper chance to defend his title

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If your down for two 9 counts in a row,you are unable to protect yourself

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No you arent

Marquez stumbled up to 2 very lazy larthargic 8 counts
Buster Douglas barely made the 10 count and was all over the place
Eubank was completely gone against watson and even at 8 was all over the place
Benn needed a good 20 seconds to climb himself through the ropes and back into the ring to knock out gerald mcClellan

Theres no mercy rule in a sport such as boxing, the only time a fighter should not be allowed to continue is if the ref feels he is completely unable to protect himself!!!

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Originally Posted by hattonthehammer

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Originally Posted by Tilt A Whirl

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Originally Posted by Tins06

Watched this a few times.Difficult to call. Maybe we should change the quistion.

A fight should be stopped when a fighter is deemed "unable to protect himself"

Did cook look unable to protect himself when he got up?

He looked ok to continue to me.And this is hardly one of them Cotto VS Gomes match-ups.I'd give the champ a proper chance to defend his title

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If your down for two 9 counts in a row,you are unable to protect yourself

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No you arent

Marquez stumbled up to 2 very lazy larthargic 8 counts
Buster Douglas barely made the 10 count and was all over the place
Eubank was completely gone against watson and even at 8 was all over the place
Benn needed a good 20 seconds to climb himself through the ropes and back into the ring to knock out gerald mcClellan

Theres no mercy rule in a sport such as boxing, the only time a fighter should not be allowed to continue is if the ref feels he is completely unable to protect himself!!!

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Which the ref, and most of the posters on here, clearly felt he was unable to do. The way he stumbled back into the second knockdown showed he was done.

The hardest job in the world at times.

I had no complaints about the Cook stoppage to be fair - was just one of those.

Two that always stand out to me are Tyson Ruddock I and Lewis v McCall I.

The big Question is what is the job of Refs , to Protect the Boxers or be a Model into the Ring ? , cmon....Cook was hurt very badly twice , if Refs would not stopped that fight what you think would happen then ? , that is the big problems of most of fighters that doesnt recognize when is badly hurts , prefer to died in the line , to me that is not Healthy.......;)

I suppose Cook had his chance to hold after the first kd, and he didn't so there is nothing to suggest that he would have survived getting kd again in that round.

At the time i thought he probably could continue but i can't fault the ref for stepping in and calling it. It did seem however, that Bradley Pryce was given more of an opportunity to get back into the fight earlier on in the night. Maybe the brutality of his KO played on the ref's mind slightly. Had the potential to be a cracker aswell seen as though they both clearly were capable of rocking eachother.

Cook should have tried to hold on at least instead of trying to fight back. Ah well i never thought he was good enough to be a world champ and at least now we don't have to watch a Cook, Arthur, Mitchell, Foster Jnr WBO title merry-go-round.

The referee called that fight exactly right Cook was in no fit state to continue.It was a tragedy for Cook but all credit to Martinez what an uppercut that was.
I truly think many of the people that becall referees saying they stop fights too early have never boxed themselves. I'd much rather a referee stops a fight a bit early than a bit too late. Think back to Gerald McClellan Beathavaen Scotland, Duk Koo Kim etc. Thats what can happen when fights are let to go too long

Beathavaen Scotland was a classic example of too long. It was horrible and everyone was saying "stop it, stop it" but it was too late. Another example was Oscar Diaz against Golden Johnson. Good God, what part of white towel didn't Oscar's corner know? The most dangerous situation in boxing is when you have a ref who pulls the plug too slowly coupled with a corner that is too brave for its own good. That combo can spell disaster.

Paret-Emile anyone???

One fight that is always creepy for me to see is Ike vs. Jack II, when Ike lands about 25 free shots before the ref. waives it off. At one point Ike Williams stops throwing punches and turns to the ref. almost saying "Aren't you gonna stop it?" ref. doesn't do anything so Ike continues to land another 4 free shots until the jackass ref. jumps in to waive it off.

Which reminds me Ike Williams is possibly the most underrated and unapreciated boxer ever.

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Originally Posted by hattonthehammer

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Originally Posted by Tilt A Whirl

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Originally Posted by Tins06

Watched this a few times.Difficult to call. Maybe we should change the quistion.

A fight should be stopped when a fighter is deemed "unable to protect himself"

Did cook look unable to protect himself when he got up?

He looked ok to continue to me.And this is hardly one of them Cotto VS Gomes match-ups.I'd give the champ a proper chance to defend his title

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If your down for two 9 counts in a row,you are unable to protect yourself

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No you arent

Marquez stumbled up to 2 very lazy larthargic 8 counts
Buster Douglas barely made the 10 count and was all over the place
Eubank was completely gone against watson and even at 8 was all over the place
Benn needed a good 20 seconds to climb himself through the ropes and back into the ring to knock out gerald mcClellan

Theres no mercy rule in a sport such as boxing, the only time a fighter should not be allowed to continue is if the ref feels he is completely unable to protect himself!!!

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Yes, you are,he barely made the count twice within seconds,and the second time he landed face down.That is not a fighter in a position to continue

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Originally Posted by CutMeMick

Paret-Emile anyone???

One fight that is always creepy for me to see is Ike vs. Jack II, when Ike lands about 25 free shots before the ref. waives it off. At one point Ike Williams stops throwing punches and turns to the ref. almost saying "Aren't you gonna stop it?" ref. doesn't do anything so Ike continues to land another 4 free shots until the jackass ref. jumps in to waive it off.

Which reminds me Ike Williams is possibly the most underrated and unapreciated boxer ever.

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You want creepy. How about Duran-Moore. The imbecilic ref suffered from brain paralysis. Some write at ring side had to go in there and stop the slaughter. Moore would have been killed for sure.IMO

CHECK THIS OUT: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ezLbrjlyTuQ

Must be over 21 to watch this:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yRiURENunq4

Man those two referees were lucky they didnt have a more serious outcome to those fight.
Diabolical officiating

That Moore drubbing was savage.Thought to be somewhat of a 'crossroads' fight...at the time....with Duran a underdog.WHOOPS :shinner:,Moore was very much out of his depth.

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Originally Posted by Spicoli surfs 'Nawlins

That Moore drubbing was savage.Thought to be somewhat of a 'crossroads' fight...at the time....with Duran a underdog.WHOOPS :shinner:,Moore was very much out of his depth.

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Moore wasn't out of his depth, he was good , don't let his short career fool you. But he was seriously handicapped by the eye injury.

Shit, that Duran-Moore fight was brutal :o:-\