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..at the very least to TRY to comeback? The division is so crummy. Those guys could still hang with the nonsense that's fighting nowadays.
WHo else could make a decent thing out of a comeback? What the hell ever happened to Larry Donald or Samson Puoha or Jimmy Thunder or even Obed Sullivan?
Somebody please tell them its OK to comeback now.:rolleyes:
Bowe did comeback a few months ago and was shit
Golota also fought late last year and was shit
Well there is only Lewis who is not fighting from the list in the title. Golota was being promised a title shot off Don King after his win over Mollo and then got beat off Ray Austin. Briggs is apparently being lined up for Valuev and Riddick Bowe fought not long ago and looked a mess!Quote:
Originally Posted by brocktonblockbust
They are all pretty old and crummy. Lewis is retired though, he seems to have a few marbles.
Bowe is done see the Billy Zumbrum fight. The other guys you mentioned are pretty old and ring worn. The 1 fighter that needs to get himself together is David Tua who can beat everyone in the heavies except the Klitschkos. Peter vs Tua anyone?
No way, Tua is shite and scared of his own shadow nowadays.
Bowe looked alot better in his recent fight than he did in his comeback fights a few years before, he had decent hand speed and put some nice punches together, he shouldnt be fighting any more but you could see a touch of class there.
Golota is slow like a robot now, Briggs has always been a bag of crap.
I see lewis coming back and having a rematch with Vitali, as when Haye has been flattened there just arent any exciting match up out there.
There are no old names that can come back now and be successfull, not at the top level anyway.
Golata is hurt right now,pretty bad,he might not even be able to comeback
Tua is scheduled to fight Shane Cameron sometime this year.
Everyone hates the entire division for one fight? I never had faith in Sam Peter, even when he was 24(21 KO)-0-0 and people said he was "The next Ike Ibeabuchi/Mike Tyson" I said he was a slow plodding wide punching sloppy fighter and that's why I wasn't surprised when Wladimir beat him soundly.Quote:
Originally Posted by brocktonblockbust
As for your comeback fighters, Lennox can't beat Vitali now and he knows it and he knows he would have to fight him if he came back. Vitali is 100% behind Lewis retiring, regardless of the outcome of the fight.
Andrew Golota is still fighting, Riddick Bowe BARELY got passed Billy Zumbrun, Shannon Briggs weighs LITTERALLY 400 pounds...and if you think any of those guys could do anything then certainly you'd think Evander Holyfield would have done something by now.
As bored as people are with The Klitschko's, you still have to respect their skill. They are talented all-around boxers and though they may have a slower pace than what you think you remember of the division, their opponents aren't all that great a bunch to choose from.
It seems that in the heavyweight division that the fans are never pleased with the here and now.
When Holyfield was around he couldn't punch, when Lewis was around he boxed too much and had a weak chin, and I'm sure people had issues with Bowe and Tyson as well
Tua.....:vanish: just what in the helz happened to this man?Ponder what he could have been.I think he is one of the most unfulfilled heavys in resent memory.
Yep he has wasted his talent and never got his full confidence back after the Lewis fight. Tua has 1 of the best chins in boxing and a left hook from hell. I don't see why he never picked up a different trainer like a Steward or a Mayweather to show him something new and put him right mentally.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spicoli surfs 'Nawlins
Bruce Seldon
Hard to think of another fighter that I had been so wrong about in how they would pan out.He appeared to have it all very early on..whoops :shinner:Quote:
Originally Posted by boba
Lyle, you're pretty consistent in your defense of the HW division, and for that I gotta give you some credit. Especially in the face of the general consensus, which is that the division is CRAP (and I'm part of the general consensus).Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyle
;D
On the other hand, maybe it's all relative. Maybe the HWs only look so bad because there are other divisions that are SO MUCH BETTER. So in comparison, the HWs look like shit.
And yet... when you compare today's crop of HWs with those of past eras, I think you're doing the past HWs a disservice. Holyfield, Lewis, and Tyson in their peaks were head and shoulders above any of the HWs in the Top 10 today. Only the Klitschko brothers could probably hang with those guys, and I'm not sure I'm sold on the "post-comeback" Vitali just yet. It's the Klitschko brothers... and then a bunch of "roadkill."
And it's too bad, too. 'Cause a lot of people (the casual fans) only watch boxing when the big boys fight. We need someone to shake things up.... SOON!
with the exception of Lewis, those guys all suck now. (Lewis might too, but that has not been confirmed like the other fighters listed.)
The Duke ;D
and BOwe should have never come back after his brain bleeding, the guys who did give him a licence didn't have all their mind and it is a disgrace to boxing to put his life in danger for the sake of spectacle.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFanLyle, you're pretty consistent in your defense of the HW division, and for that I gotta give you some credit. Especially in the face of the general consensus, which is that the division is CRAP (and I'm part of the general consensus).Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyle
;D
On the other hand, maybe it's all relative. Maybe the HWs only look so bad because there are other divisions that are SO MUCH BETTER. So in comparison, the HWs look like shit.
And yet... when you compare today's crop of HWs with those of past eras, I think you're doing the past HWs a disservice. Holyfield, Lewis, and Tyson in their peaks were head and shoulders above any of the HWs in the Top 10 today. Only the Klitschko brothers could probably hang with those guys, and I'm not sure I'm sold on the "post-comeback" Vitali just yet. It's the Klitschko brothers... and then a bunch of "roadkill."
And it's too bad, too. 'Cause a lot of people (the casual fans) only watch boxing when the big boys fight. We need someone to shake things up.... SOON!
In defense of Lyle with the exception of the 70's fightfans have always harkened back to an earlier era when heavyweights were good.
In the 80's when Tyson was at his peak everybody said at the time that it was a weak division, when Holyfield came along and Tyson went inside against it was a weak division hence why Foreman came back. Then during the Lewis prime when both Tyson and Holyfield were fade it was again seen as a weak division then Lewis left and we were left with Vitali and again a weak division.
I'm 35 and cannot recall a time in my memory when people said the heavyweight division was stacked and strong.
It was literally only in those golden 70's with Ali, Foreman, Frazier, Norton etc and few years earlier to Liston and Patterson when the heavyweight division was seen as strong.
The thing is you can look back at the 90s (especially early to mid) and say in hindsight that it was a very strong division, whereas I just don't ever see people saying that about todays crop!Quote:
Originally Posted by BilboQuote:
Originally Posted by TitoFanLyle, you're pretty consistent in your defense of the HW division, and for that I gotta give you some credit. Especially in the face of the general consensus, which is that the division is CRAP (and I'm part of the general consensus).Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyle
;D
On the other hand, maybe it's all relative. Maybe the HWs only look so bad because there are other divisions that are SO MUCH BETTER. So in comparison, the HWs look like shit.
And yet... when you compare today's crop of HWs with those of past eras, I think you're doing the past HWs a disservice. Holyfield, Lewis, and Tyson in their peaks were head and shoulders above any of the HWs in the Top 10 today. Only the Klitschko brothers could probably hang with those guys, and I'm not sure I'm sold on the "post-comeback" Vitali just yet. It's the Klitschko brothers... and then a bunch of "roadkill."
And it's too bad, too. 'Cause a lot of people (the casual fans) only watch boxing when the big boys fight. We need someone to shake things up.... SOON!
In defense of Lyle with the exception of the 70's fightfans have always harkened back to an earlier era when heavyweights were good.
In the 80's when Tyson was at his peak everybody said at the time that it was a weak division, when Holyfield came along and Tyson went inside against it was a weak division hence why Foreman came back. Then during the Lewis prime when both Tyson and Holyfield were fade it was again seen as a weak division then Lewis left and we were left with Vitali and again a weak division.
I'm 35 and cannot recall a time in my memory when people said the heavyweight division was stacked and strong.
It was literally only in those golden 70's with Ali, Foreman, Frazier, Norton etc and few years earlier to Liston and Patterson when the heavyweight division was seen as strong.
Tyson going to prison really screwed up what could have been a great HW period. Tyson/Lewis/Holy/Bowe/Mercer/Morrison/Moorer all would have been either in their prime or not to far from it to provide great fights. Some of these we did get but a lot we either didn't get at all or one of the fighters had started into decline. I mean it may not be Ali/Foreman/Frazier/Quarry etc but its not that far off either.
Did quarry ever win any of those fights?
I think of these guy and I put Norton in there instead.
Tua is fighting in July or Sept apparently. He didn't look too bad in his last fight, but it's really been a while..
Re the HW division of the 70's, I am 45 and I remember watching a lot of fights at this time, I believe part of the reasion we hark on about the 70's being the best era for HW's is partly nostaligia. It was the first time that people could watch fights at home in colour and we had the legacy of Ali getting everyone stirred up. When Ali was gone we kept waiting for the replacement which obviously never come. There were a lot of good fighters in the 70's and there were the return matches and rubber matches you wouldn't get these days.
Having so many belts hasn't helped, we oldies were spoiled by watching the best and not being subjected to a bunch of second rate fighters haggling over a title that everyone knows doesn't really make you a bona fide WC.
Not to say the 70's scene wasn't good but maybe it wasn't THAT good after all.A lot of what is said is with hindsight and by the next generation, not many people moaned when Tyson arrived, he was exciting and brought something new, now it's all "well Tyson was never that good"
Wonder what they'll be saying about Pacman in 20 years, let's talk about it then ;D