Been seeing a lot of negative comments about Cortez lately (rightly so) just wondered if anyone had any referees that you thought did a good job in general.
Mills Lane
Harry Gibbs
Richard Steele
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Been seeing a lot of negative comments about Cortez lately (rightly so) just wondered if anyone had any referees that you thought did a good job in general.
Mills Lane
Harry Gibbs
Richard Steele
I like Tony Weeks and Kenny Bayless. also Steve Smoger.. these refs seem to care more about humanity.;D:p
Hands down it has to be these two guys here.
http://i42.tinypic.com/2eujwbc.jpg
Steve Smoger
http://i42.tinypic.com/16i61s.jpg
Arthur Mercante Jr.
BTW. Mercante Jr's. line after stopping a fight has been "I Love You Too Much." It is not just Zab Judah he has said this to.
Love anyone who will stop a fight when they think it's right and know they might get flak for it, Steele stopping Taylor on the last second is a classic example.Turns out that Taylor had swalloed a huge amount of blood, as he says it only takes a second for a punch to be thrown,land and take a decision away from you.
Smoger, Bayless, and Mills Lane back in the day.
When there's a really big fight, there are 2 refs who I feel completely comfortable with.
Kenny Bayless and Steve Smoger.
American refs are usually better in terms of competance with the exception of Joe Cortez. He messes up far too often these days.
In terms of British refs, Dave Paris stands out as a total loser. He does whatever it takes to please the house promoter. Fat,bald scum!
They are usually spot on. I hope one of those two is doing the Hatton: Pac fight.Quote:
Originally Posted by SweetPea
I totally agree with GAME too. Dave Paris is a disgrace, I still haven't got over that Khan fight. Dave Paris is the Joe Cortez of British boxing.
Mills Lane will always be the daddy of boxing referees for me ;)
been a pit pissed off with Cortez since Mayweather Hatton fight
used to be mills lane, now its bayless or weeks.
The best refs are the ones you completely forget are in the ring with the 2 fighters and let the fight just flow.
As for the worst refs......
cortez, drakulich(sp?) and jay nady
oh and as for fatty parris.....
http://media.ebaumsworld.com/picture...420/CUNT-1.png
Don't think Cortez is that bad, it was just his actions in the Soto fight that took the piss. Still NO ONE is as bad as Marlon B. Wright :mad:
The best are undoubtedly Kenny Bayless & Steve Smoger, although I always thought Richard Steele was good, got to hard a time for stoppin Taylor, but I always prefer a ref to err on the side of caution in that situation.
I think some referees need psychiatric test every now and then. Some as they get older, has the tendency of being numb and insensitive and due to the cruel nature of boxing they had become somewhat of a sadist..you know..I am aware that they call the boxers warriors, modern gladiators but that doesn't mean they fight to death.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fpdeONftgaA
It sucks.:-\
Quote:
Originally Posted by the_PRODIGY
that sir does not suck
Boxing is a bloodthirst sport however much you like/dislike that, if theres a world title on the line a ref should give a fighter every possible opportunity to carry on unless in an extreme circumstance like if he was getting absoloutely tonked.
where would boxing be right now if we had over zealous refs every time....
Marquez-Pacquiao would of been over within 2 minutes
diego corrales would of been handsomely beaten 1st time around by castillo
vasquez-marquez would of been stopped several times over
eubank would of lost to watson
benn would of lost to mcclellan
Too many fights get stopped prematurely these days and it is annoying. I admire a ref who knows where to draw the line. I was just watching the Hatton: Thaxton fight just now, and I don't know who the ref was, but I thought he did an excellent job what with Hatton being cut quite badly so early. Cracking fight that.Quote:
Originally Posted by hattonthehammerQuote:
Originally Posted by the_PRODIGY
that sir does not suck
Boxing is a bloodthirst sport however much you like/dislike that, if theres a world title on the line a ref should give a fighter every possible opportunity to carry on unless in an extreme circumstance like if he was getting absoloutely tonked.
where would boxing be right now if we had over zealous refs every time....
Marquez-Pacquiao would of been over within 2 minutes
diego corrales would of been handsomely beaten 1st time around by castillo
vasquez-marquez would of been stopped several times over
eubank would of lost to watson
benn would of lost to mcclellan
who stopped the Lews v Ruddock I fight far too ealry ? was it Steele ?
One of best pieces of refereeing I have ever seen was by our own Mickey Vann in the Graham Earl v Katsidis fight.
Earl was in trouble and his corner threw the towel in - Vann threw it back out believeing Earl was ok to continue. Earl then floored Katsidis a few seconds later.
Ok Earl lost eventually ;)
Did you watch the replay? Morrison was out 4 brutal punches earlier. and these are heavyweights and he's on the fukkin ropes!Ray Mercer's base was low and Morrison's defense was gone his legs were out from a lefthook. He wasn't fighting back nor protecting himself. It didn't help that only the ropes was holding him.Quote:
Originally Posted by hattonthehammerQuote:
Originally Posted by the_PRODIGY
that sir does not suck
Boxing is a bloodthirst sport however much you like/dislike that, if theres a world title on the line a ref should give a fighter every possible opportunity to carry on unless in an extreme circumstance like if he was getting absoloutely tonked.
where would boxing be right now if we had over zealous refs every time....
Marquez-Pacquiao would of been over within 2 minutes
diego corrales would of been handsomely beaten 1st time around by castillo
vasquez-marquez would of been stopped several times over
eubank would of lost to watson
benn would of lost to mcclellan
The fights you mentioned all includes knockdowns. A KD (sometimes intentional) helps a fighter to recover and gather himself. All of those fights were great fights, if I'm not mistaken only the Vasquez-Marquez fights featured the least KD, and two of it were stopped by the ref. The only fight which reached the 12th, shows Marquez being gifted a 'standing 8 count'. If not for that KD, he would have been stopped again by Vasquez.
Another fight that shows how helpful the KD's are is the epic Chico/Castillo fight. Chico gathered himself during the counts, and also with the help of the brilliant strategy to spit his mouthpiece to KO Castillo. IMO if Castillo did the same and only had the presence of mind to take a knee he may have survive the round. Guess where he was, at the ropes. That was a great recognition by Tony Weeks to stop the fight.
remember thatQuote:
Originally Posted by milesToo many fights get stopped prematurely these days and it is annoying. I admire a ref who knows where to draw the line. I was just watching the Hatton: Thaxton fight just now, and I don't know who the ref was, but I thought he did an excellent job what with Hatton being cut quite badly so early. Cracking fight that.Quote:
Originally Posted by hattonthehammerQuote:
Originally Posted by the_PRODIGY
that sir does not suck
Boxing is a bloodthirst sport however much you like/dislike that, if theres a world title on the line a ref should give a fighter every possible opportunity to carry on unless in an extreme circumstance like if he was getting absoloutely tonked.
where would boxing be right now if we had over zealous refs every time....
Marquez-Pacquiao would of been over within 2 minutes
diego corrales would of been handsomely beaten 1st time around by castillo
vasquez-marquez would of been stopped several times over
eubank would of lost to watson
benn would of lost to mcclellan
both were cut to ribbons and thaxton looked like he was about to go in about round 6, but the ref realising thaxton was quite capable of throwing back allowed it to continue.
What annoys me is when a guy is getting pummeled on the ropes but is still standing and the ref jumps in and waves it off. If the guy was in serious trouble he`d either take or knee or be put flat down onto the floor.
Who ref`d cotto-margarito - they called that perfect knew cotto was about to take another knee to the floor and gave him the opportunity to call the fight off himself thus leaving no doubt as to whether the stoppage was right!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by the_PRODIGYDid you watch the replay? Morrison was out 4 brutal punches earlier. and these are heavyweights and he's on the fukkin ropes!Ray Mercer's base was low and Morrison's defense was gone his legs were out from a lefthook. He wasn't fighting back nor protecting himself. It didn't help that only the ropes was holding him.Quote:
Originally Posted by hattonthehammerQuote:
Originally Posted by the_PRODIGY
that sir does not suck
Boxing is a bloodthirst sport however much you like/dislike that, if theres a world title on the line a ref should give a fighter every possible opportunity to carry on unless in an extreme circumstance like if he was getting absoloutely tonked.
where would boxing be right now if we had over zealous refs every time....
Marquez-Pacquiao would of been over within 2 minutes
diego corrales would of been handsomely beaten 1st time around by castillo
vasquez-marquez would of been stopped several times over
eubank would of lost to watson
benn would of lost to mcclellan
The fights you mentioned all includes knockdowns. A KD (sometimes intentional) helps a fighter to recover and gather himself. All of those fights were great fights, if I'm not mistaken only the Vasquez-Marquez fights featured the least KD, and two of it were stopped by the ref. The only fight which reached the 12th, shows Marquez being gifted a 'standing 8 count'. If not for that KD, he would have been stopped again by Vasquez.
Another fight that shows how helpful the KD's are is the epic Chico/Castillo fight. Chico gathered himself during the counts, and also with the help of the brilliant strategy to spit his mouthpiece to KO Castillo. IMO if Castillo did the same and only had the presence of mind to take a knee he may have survive the round. Guess where he was, at the ropes. That was a great recognition by Tony Weeks to stop the fight.
if a fighter is still standing his still fighting in my opinion
If you get hit hard to the point your unable to throw back the 1st thing to go will indeed be your legs, if a guy is up at 8 but all over the place then indeed stop the fight, if he is up able to walk to you and answers the "do you wanna fight on" theres absoloutely no reason to stop a contest.
I feel you. Early stoppages annoys me too but we have to remember there is almost no standing 8-count in pro boxing today. I think there are still bodies who implement the rule but what I'm saying is that it is very important for a boxer to be 'aware' when he's hurt badly. He can intentionally take a knee to give himself valuable time to recover. It's not a 10-point must system for no reason. that's why it's not a 1-point system. They will not lose if they went down for fukk's sake. I admire fighters who have the presence of mind to do that.Quote:
Originally Posted by milesToo many fights get stopped prematurely these days and it is annoying. I admire a ref who knows where to draw the line. I was just watching the Hatton: Thaxton fight just now, and I don't know who the ref was, but I thought he did an excellent job what with Hatton being cut quite badly so early. Cracking fight that.Quote:
Originally Posted by hattonthehammerQuote:
Originally Posted by the_PRODIGY
that sir does not suck
Boxing is a bloodthirst sport however much you like/dislike that, if theres a world title on the line a ref should give a fighter every possible opportunity to carry on unless in an extreme circumstance like if he was getting absoloutely tonked.
where would boxing be right now if we had over zealous refs every time....
Marquez-Pacquiao would of been over within 2 minutes
diego corrales would of been handsomely beaten 1st time around by castillo
vasquez-marquez would of been stopped several times over
eubank would of lost to watson
benn would of lost to mcclellan
It's not always the referee's job to protect the boxers.When they put a halt during an assault you have to expect it's always over. Remember the instructions before a fight starts where it says 'protect yourselves at all time'. I think taking a knee is part of it. I won't call a fighter who do such thing a pussy or a cheater but I say he's a smart ass son of a biatch. Well that's just me.:-\
It doesn't always work that way. Especially in the lower weights. You have to consider the fact that there are always fighters who have great durability. and there are one's who are known for their huge heart.Quote:
Originally Posted by hattonthehammerQuote:
Originally Posted by the_PRODIGYDid you watch the replay? Morrison was out 4 brutal punches earlier. and these are heavyweights and he's on the fukkin ropes!Ray Mercer's base was low and Morrison's defense was gone his legs were out from a lefthook. He wasn't fighting back nor protecting himself. It didn't help that only the ropes was holding him.Quote:
Originally Posted by hattonthehammer
The fights you mentioned all includes knockdowns. A KD (sometimes intentional) helps a fighter to recover and gather himself. All of those fights were great fights, if I'm not mistaken only the Vasquez-Marquez fights featured the least KD, and two of it were stopped by the ref. The only fight which reached the 12th, shows Marquez being gifted a 'standing 8 count'. If not for that KD, he would have been stopped again by Vasquez.
Another fight that shows how helpful the KD's are is the epic Chico/Castillo fight. Chico gathered himself during the counts, and also with the help of the brilliant strategy to spit his mouthpiece to KO Castillo. IMO if Castillo did the same and only had the presence of mind to take a knee he may have survive the round. Guess where he was, at the ropes. That was a great recognition by Tony Weeks to stop the fight.
if a fighter is still standing his still fighting in my opinion
If you get hit hard to the point your unable to throw back the 1st thing to go will indeed be your legs, if a guy is up at 8 but all over the place then indeed stop the fight, if he is up able to walk to you and answers the "do you wanna fight on" theres absoloutely no reason to stop a contest.
BIG HEART.Marquez seems to hit the canvass easily if you hit him flush to the chin but if you're the referee and you know his history you will give him the benefit of the doubt. I remember the 2nd Gatti-Ward fight, Micky Ward went down hard from an overhand right that landed behind his left ear and he was stumbling all over the place. The commentator was saying if it we'rent for Ward's reputation, the fight would have been surely stopped.
GREAT CHIN. Most of the times leads to serious injuries. Gerald Mcllelan didn't went down against Benn and when he finally did look what happened to him. Margarito took Mosley's best punches a hundred times until he succumbs and look, he never recovered even after beating the count and being saved by the bell. Castillo, correct me if I'm wrong but I think when he fought Chico he has never ever hit the canvass. His body couldn't take any of the consecutive blows no more. If not of Tony Weeks "early stoppage" he may have suffered serious injuries and couldn't have avenge his loss or may have never fought Hatton.
and I can't emphasize it even more:
Ray Mercer was a hard hitting heavyweight and Morrison was very durable.
Dick Flaherty out of Boston; John Ritter out of Oklahoma, and the guys who work Mohegan Sun and Foxwoods all do a fine job and are not overly intrusive.
The late Toby Gibson who was a friend of mine was a very fine ref. Stanley Christodoulou (Hall of Famer) and Elmo Rudolph (now retired) are/were also very good ones.
Steele is one of my fav referee. And I think he did a fine job with Chavez-Taylor fight eventhough he received tons of negative criticism on that fight.
Lovin' Mills Lane, Smoger, Russel, Bayless, and Draculich.
"Yory Boy" Campas was still standing while he was being battered by Trinidad, never went down but was completely out, so was Vargas while Oscar was teeing off on his head, tell me those weren't justified stoppages, due to bad stoppages using your reasoning have lead to death a fue times, with the one who was battered so badly being able to finish the fight only to end up dieing in the hospital hours or days laterQuote:
Originally Posted by hattonthehammerQuote:
Originally Posted by the_PRODIGYDid you watch the replay? Morrison was out 4 brutal punches earlier. and these are heavyweights and he's on the fukkin ropes!Ray Mercer's base was low and Morrison's defense was gone his legs were out from a lefthook. He wasn't fighting back nor protecting himself. It didn't help that only the ropes was holding him.Quote:
Originally Posted by hattonthehammer
The fights you mentioned all includes knockdowns. A KD (sometimes intentional) helps a fighter to recover and gather himself. All of those fights were great fights, if I'm not mistaken only the Vasquez-Marquez fights featured the least KD, and two of it were stopped by the ref. The only fight which reached the 12th, shows Marquez being gifted a 'standing 8 count'. If not for that KD, he would have been stopped again by Vasquez.
Another fight that shows how helpful the KD's are is the epic Chico/Castillo fight. Chico gathered himself during the counts, and also with the help of the brilliant strategy to spit his mouthpiece to KO Castillo. IMO if Castillo did the same and only had the presence of mind to take a knee he may have survive the round. Guess where he was, at the ropes. That was a great recognition by Tony Weeks to stop the fight.
if a fighter is still standing his still fighting in my opinion
If you get hit hard to the point your unable to throw back the 1st thing to go will indeed be your legs, if a guy is up at 8 but all over the place then indeed stop the fight, if he is up able to walk to you and answers the "do you wanna fight on" theres absoloutely no reason to stop a contest.
on that note my fav refs right now are, Kenny Bayless, Tony Weeks, Eddie Cotton
I liked Richard Steele but since he's retired, I like Kenny Bayless.
Mick Vann!!!He's great.He lets the fight progress and he does'nt seem to be in there in the ring due to the fact he keeps a sharp eye from a fair distance.A great Ref is a ref who does'nt seem to exsists in the ring with the other fighter and thats how Mick Vann is like.
Lawrence Cole.
Just kiddin'. The guy is an idiot.
Unfortunately Its the bad ones that stand out to me.I guess the best are the ones that are not noticed;D.I do like Bayless,Benji estevaz,S. Christodoulou,Smoger,Kenny Chevalir (sp..the little guy with the hick up in his leg).Mitch Halpren (Rip) and the one and only Mills Lane.
Ones that irk me...wanna be center of attention Joe Cortez.Think long and hard about his phrase "I'm fair but I'm firm"...:cwm13:.Jeez,how about a big glass of "get the f!!! over yourself" Joe!!! Frank Cappaciano.....sort of the same.One of the absolute worse was Ralph Condit.He refed like he was calling a best in show at a dog show competition.Very abrasive Joe O'Neil.....he and Larry Hazzard always seemed to have a beef with one another?One for the jail system...The ref in the first Eder Gonzalez vs.Juan M.Coggi circus,damn near criminal!!
Earlier this night, Tim Bradley was hit by a monstrous counter left hook by Kendall Holt and he went down hard. He was up at the count of 2, but did a smart thing to take a knee and gather himself. Smart ass dude won the fight via UD.;)
Gotta agree, plus the way he dances around the ring for a man of his age is just great. I reckon Micky Vann could wrestle a bear, whilst pulling a perfect pint and executing the demise of Osama Bin Laden all at the same time and still come out unscathed...he's basically the Chuck Norris of boxing referees, without the beard.Quote:
Originally Posted by yvonne
Steve Smoger is the best imo. He genuinely cares about the fighters and he made great calls without controversy.
Have to disagree that as long as you're up you're fair game and in the fight. Many boxers will just not make the decision for themselves that they have had enough, they are to use a cliche 'warrios' they will accept the ref or the corner pulling them out but don't ask most to give up on their own.Quote:
Originally Posted by hattonthehammerQuote:
Originally Posted by the_PRODIGYDid you watch the replay? Morrison was out 4 brutal punches earlier. and these are heavyweights and he's on the fukkin ropes!Ray Mercer's base was low and Morrison's defense was gone his legs were out from a lefthook. He wasn't fighting back nor protecting himself. It didn't help that only the ropes was holding him.Quote:
Originally Posted by hattonthehammer
The fights you mentioned all includes knockdowns. A KD (sometimes intentional) helps a fighter to recover and gather himself. All of those fights were great fights, if I'm not mistaken only the Vasquez-Marquez fights featured the least KD, and two of it were stopped by the ref. The only fight which reached the 12th, shows Marquez being gifted a 'standing 8 count'. If not for that KD, he would have been stopped again by Vasquez.
Another fight that shows how helpful the KD's are is the epic Chico/Castillo fight. Chico gathered himself during the counts, and also with the help of the brilliant strategy to spit his mouthpiece to KO Castillo. IMO if Castillo did the same and only had the presence of mind to take a knee he may have survive the round. Guess where he was, at the ropes. That was a great recognition by Tony Weeks to stop the fight.
if a fighter is still standing his still fighting in my opinion
If you get hit hard to the point your unable to throw back the 1st thing to go will indeed be your legs, if a guy is up at 8 but all over the place then indeed stop the fight, if he is up able to walk to you and answers the "do you wanna fight on" theres absoloutely no reason to stop a contest.
Do see where you are coming though,in some cases it can turnaround and you get a completely different result in seconds but for the most part the ref should err on the side of caution.A good point made in a fight I recntly watched was the commentator saying the ref should be knowledgable about the fighters as some of them might go for ever looking like they are done in and could be stopped too early.
That's why I wouldn't wanna be a ref big call knowing the damage a wring decision could cause.