..I find it at times difficult to envision Rocky being able to withstand Floyd Patterson, Ingemar Johanssen and Sonny LIston, who all came up quite shortly after his retirement.
Anybody?
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..I find it at times difficult to envision Rocky being able to withstand Floyd Patterson, Ingemar Johanssen and Sonny LIston, who all came up quite shortly after his retirement.
Anybody?
Sonny Liston, yes of course he's a big guy and had Rocky waited around until he came to the top of the division then he would have been really old and couldn't have continued to fight as he had done before.
Floyd Patterson did have very fast hands but he also had a very suspect chin and with him if the other fighter poured on the pressure then his defense and offense were useless.
Ingemar Johanssen was kind of like Rex Layne, he was a good puncher but kind of soft....I think it would have been a tougher fight than Patterson as Ingemar was bigger and had a good right cross but I think Rocky's pressure and power could have taken him even in his later years.
i know i'm changing the subject completely but who do you think would win between "Chegui" Torres Vs Tomas Adamek, would be a war at LHW
32 year old champ Rocky Marciano announced retirement in 1956.
Sonny Liston turned pro in '53,
was 14 wins and 1 loss(avenged) by '56,
jail and boxing ban mid-'56 to '57,
back to boxing in 1958.
What could have been?
I don't think the Rock would have been prime anymore in 1958 at 34 years old.
In 1956 the Rock had substantial lower back pain which was a major cause for his retirement (in addition to not having any real challengers anymore and no big money fight on the horizon.)
Some points to consider:
The Rock absolutely had the power in his right hand to put out even Sonny Liston if he hit him right on the chin. The Rock could take a helluva shot. The Rock did not get frustrated and kept working at cutting down his more skilled opponents late in the fight. Competitive heart and mentally TOUGH!
Marciano would NOT have been scared of Liston, and intimidation/fear were a big part of Liston's arsenal. There is the Rock's bad back by 1956 though, this for a crouching fighter.
It would've been a great fight.
No way in hell that a young 21 year old Patterson with no chin could have ever beaten a guy like Marciano. Patterson's much better than he's given credit for nowadays, and he's got an impressive highlight reel worth watching for any boxing fan, but there's no way he would have ever beaten Marciano.
Ingemar Johanssen?
I hate to say it especially because the man passed on recently, but heart is the crucial difference between Marciano and Johanssen RE the Olympics.
Marciano had the better chin, better conditioning, more resilient.
Johanssen had a great right hand, "the Hammer of Thor."
Johanssen still touched greatness for a time though, capturing the Greatest-Prize-In-All-Sports at a time when that still really meant something. Johanssen deserves his respect, but he couldn't take Marciano.
Of the three listed, I think Liston is the only real threat to Marciano.
The Rock retired in '56, and I think Liston would've been able to beat Marciano in '58, but I don't think the Rock would've been prime anymore by then.
Now if Liston hadn't gone to jail in '56 and '57, that could've been a great contest (if it was even allowed to happen; Liston may not have been given a shot anyway due to the politics of the time.)
Fantasy matchups are all we're left with.
Marciano wasn't the greatest of heavyweights, but he certainly belongs in the Top 10 All-Time Greats list in 117 years of gloved Heavyweight boxing.
Rocky Marciano TAKES the Title from Jersey Joe Walcott:
http://img301.imageshack.us/img301/4...lcottkovf1.jpg
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I see Liston beating Marciano if they fought at that time, maybe at any point, as he was one tough muthafucka.Quote:
Originally Posted by brocktonblockbust
I think Marciano beats both Patterson & Johannson in their prime, but at that time, I'm a little less certain. It was his fight with Archie Moore that told Marciano to retire, and I think he knew that if he fought a heavyweight how he fought Moore he would have lost.
But in their primes, I give only Liston a shot at beating them.
Marciano vs Liston would have been a heck of a fight to watch. I think Marciano would soon get to Liston and would knock him out in 11.
Now if a Prime Rocky was fighting a Prime Liston, I think Rocky pulls out a tough win. Sonny was a big dude but psychologically weak and Rocky could break anyone's will.
After Rocky's retirement I think his ailing back would have slowed his pace and power making him a sitting duck for someone as big and powerful as Liston.
Liston did have a ram rod of a jab which could have cut up Rocky, prime for prime it would be a very entertaining contest.
He was pretty good
Interestingly enough is that I heard that there were negotiations of Rocky coming out of retirement to fight Ingemar. However guys in the boxing biz can be sly, and Archie Moore came out ahead to secure a fight with Ingemar.
I can imagine Rocky fighting Ingemar. It'd be a shoot out between too stalwart fighters, both carrying the the firepower to make it a blood and guts match.
In regards to Liston, Charlie Goldman spoke confidently of Rocky handling him, his approach would've been having Rock target Sonny's body. Could Rocky beat him, I'm not convinced that he'd be able to after time caught up to him.
If Rocky stayed on fighting to eventually get into the ring with Patterson, I can see Rocky coming up ahead with his pressure, and his body-numbing two-fisted attack. Patterson would've been like a well constructed house of cards urgently trying to hold back an oak.
Marciano was a fighter with limited skills but posessed the heart and stamina almost unimaginable.....He made up for his lack of talent with the sheer will to enforce himself on his opponent....He beat some greats but truth is none were at their peak....Marciano is over hyped because he is a sentimental favorite but his place among the HW greats varies...Personally I put him 7th or 8th....
I also think if he competed lets say in the late 60's or 70's he would not have undefeated and maybe not even a champion
As long as we are talking fantasy...how about Rock vs Tunney or Dempsey? I take Tunney with a UD or stoppage on cuts...The Dempsey fight is really tough for me. Very similar fighters. I think I take the Rock simply due to the better chin IMHO.
Youre alive ChrisQuote:
Originally Posted by Chris Nagel
Rocky Marciano the greatest cruiser weight of all time!
that title still belongs to Evander sorryQuote:
Originally Posted by Master
Rocky would have beat him at cruiser, if Dwight went life and death with him in the first fight what would Rocky do!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMoralesthat title still belongs to Evander sorryQuote:
Originally Posted by Master
that was before Evander became undisputed cruiserweight champion, and what did he do to Qawi in the rematch? completely dominate him, after that fight, no one really challenged Holyfield at that weightQuote:
Originally Posted by MasterRocky would have beat him at cruiser, if Dwight went life and death with him in the first fight what would Rocky do!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMoralesthat title still belongs to Evander sorryQuote:
Originally Posted by Master
IMO Rocky wouldve had to be stopped on cuts or KTF out in order to lose a fight. He wasnt going to lose any fight on points. The guy would rather die in the last round going for the KO than lose on points.
2nd fight Quawi aged. Holyfield was dominate in his time period but do you think Rocky could not beat him?Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMoralesthat was before Evander became undisputed cruiserweight champion, and what did he do to Qawi in the rematch? completely dominate him, after that fight, no one really challenged Holyfield at that weightQuote:
Originally Posted by MasterRocky would have beat him at cruiser, if Dwight went life and death with him in the first fight what would Rocky do!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMorales
not saying he couldn't of beat him, but i'm sure it wouldn't be anything certain, it would of been a hell of a fight, with either fighter capable of taking itQuote:
Originally Posted by Master2nd fight Quawi aged. Holyfield was dominate in his time period but do you think Rocky could not beat him?Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMoralesthat was before Evander became undisputed cruiserweight champion, and what did he do to Qawi in the rematch? completely dominate him, after that fight, no one really challenged Holyfield at that weightQuote:
Originally Posted by Master
Master that was Holyfeilds liek 11 or 12 fight and he was fighting someone liek that thats not really fair at all dude he was still learning. As for do i think he could beat Rocky heal yea i do he beat Foreman, Holmes both old but Foreman was still good i thought, Tyson, Bowie and Moorer. So yea i think he take Rocky out by counter and it be a stoppage on cuts.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Nagel
When in the hell did Moore fight Ingemar?????????????????
Holyfield liked to brawl, even against Bowe the first time he was out boxing him early but got hit low and just ended up in a fight. Rocky would do the same and both being at Cruiser-weight, Rocky's punch would carry greater weight on Holyfield. He would have a war with Holyfield and it would be a classic fight by two of the most courageous fighters ever.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr140
agreed, 50/50 fight if there ever was oneQuote:
Originally Posted by MasterHolyfield liked to brawl, even against Bowe the first time he was out boxing him early but got hit low and just ended up in a fight. Rocky would do the same and both being at Cruiser-weight, Rocky's punch would carry greater weight on Holyfield. He would have a war with Holyfield and it would be a classic fight by two of the most courageous fighters ever.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr140