Anyone watching this on HBO???
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Anyone watching this on HBO???
...it is just tragic the way Ali treated Joe, and Ali gets the praise and the glory and all Joe gets is the satisfaction of beating up Ali in all 3 fights....he lost 2 of them but Frazier hurt him there is no denying that.
the ref was a filipino movie star. Who would have thought.
He's a world class referee, Carlos Padilla ... He's the first preference to referee coz the fight was in Manila, Philippines...Quote:
Originally Posted by boozeboxer
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Yep. He reffed so many high profile world championships.Quote:
Originally Posted by SaddoBoxerHe's a world class referee, Carlos Padilla ... He's the first preference to referee coz the fight was in Manila, Philippines...Quote:
Originally Posted by boozeboxer
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You think that's weird? Hell I heard the round girls were the President's daughter.oops :-XQuote:
Originally Posted by boozeboxer
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Originally Posted by Lyle
I watched this documentary and I really got angry. If you choose Ali you were right and if Frazier you were a racist or an uncle Tom. What a crock of shit. Nevermind the fact that Frazier was just a hard nosed blue collared fighter who worked his whole life since he was a kid and Ali was a middle-class school enrolled student who was bred for olympic glory. Something oddley enough when Ali called Frazier an Uncle Tom and a pure nigger. When Frazier was actually treated like a slave his whole life and had to fight for everything he got. I kept saying god damn people were stupid back then. Here is a man who has done nothing to nobody just won the heavyweight crown by KO,and didn't hype himself as "The Greatest" kept his mouth shut and did his job,also helped his friend Ali in need by giving him money when he was flat broke,then get's him back into the ring, then Ali spits back in his face by destroying Frazier's life and Frazier's children from simple childish name calling and the stupid ass media ate the shit up. Fuck everyone who was ever involved with that and thought it was ok. And FUCK Ferdie Pachaceo another piece of shit after that stupid stupid interview last night saying " it was great ". Sorry I'm getting a little pissed off again. But in the end Frazier is still pissed and rightfully so. Fuck Ali for doing that who was his FRIEND in the beginning. He is a backstabbing piece of shit in my mind.
Oh I am certainly pissed off about it too...Ali does all this EVIL stuff, he never got called on it, nobody ever said "this is wrong" not even Jesse Jackson who if I'm not mistaken has always been opposed to racism, Bryant Gumbel even WILLINGLY participated in the racism against Joe Frazier with the article "Is Joe Frazier a white champion in black skin" :rolleyes:
And yet after doing all this crap Ali makes the money, Ali is the icon, Ali is "The Greatest of All-Time"....and all Joe has is his gym and his comparative good health.
Also guys like Gumbel and Jackson are still around spouting their views on race....you already gave us your views and they were fucking wrong 30 years ago and they are wrong right now!
This documentary described in detail why I have a hard time respecting Muhammed Ali as a person.
I like Ali as a boxer, hate him as a person and I am unfortunate enough to not have access to HBO at the moment, hopefully it'll be uploaded somewhere eventually so I can see it and give my opinion about the documentary.
Id love to see the documentary. Ill be completely honest, ive always been a fan of Ali and respected him as a person, but I wasnt around during that era so all Ive heard about Ali is the good. Unfortunately, like everything else the media puts its spin on things and ultimately we get cheated out of the ablity to develop our own opinions based on facts.
Lots of hate and politics with their rivalry. And wtf:confused:, Ali fired 3 gun shots outside the hotel balcony that they were staying?
I think its ignorant for people to watch the documentary and then say they hate Ali as a person.
Ali has already apologized and said he was hyping a fight, he holds no remorse towards Frazier and even apologized to his son. Frazier to this day is proud of what he has done to Ali and won't let it go nor be forgiving. How someone can praise Frazier for that and yet hate Ali for manning up and apologizing and saying he was wrong is beyond my understanding. Frazier even has it on his ring tone what he has done to Ali, yet people praise him and put Ali all in the wrong here? It was 30 years ago, and Ali has since apologized a long time ago, Frazier still holds onto it and is happy about what he did. How can you defend a man that says Ali "deserved to be thrown into the fire" at the Olympics?
And how can you throw out the 60 million he put into a Center that focuses on peace respect and responsibility in Louisville, thats also a non profit organization. Just throw out, throw out his humanitarian efforts through his global travels since his retirement, and throw out the 20 million plus meals he's provided for the hungry more then 200 days a year, throw out all the great things he's done since his retirement becoming a greater person then some people could wish to be, just throw all that out because of him hyping the fight with Joe Frazier which he apologized for, fuck any fan that says he hates Ali as a person. And thats from the bottom of my heart, and it may seem harsh but fuck whoever judges Ali as a person because of his actions in that one part of his life which he has apologized for. Keep praising Frazier for holding onto it and not accepting apologies and putting his love for what he's done to Ali in his ringtone almost 30 years later and praise him for nearly making Ali cry when at a personal appearance Joe got on a speaker saying "I guess we know who won those fights now don't we."
I don't get where people come from so times or how fast boxing fans can switch sides because of a documentary while ignoring all the things someone has done in their life since. Fuck any boxing fan who turns their back on Ali all because of one documentary thats not even relevant to what he is doing now.
You have a point that at some point, it's time to grow up and forgive. I think a lot of why Frazier won't let it go is because he was so supportive of Ali when the chips were down for him, and then he turned on him. Combine this with the Ali's legacy and the fact the he was never held accountable by the public for being so horrible, it's a bitter pill to swallow. Ali should have apologized to Frazier man to man.Quote:
Originally Posted by Majesty
Like any other person, Ali did things that were both positive and negative. Ali certainly did many positive things with this fame and fortune. If not for those things, he would be remembered very differently. But there is no denying that for most of his career, Ali was an egotistical, hypocritical, self serving jerk. And there's no denying Frazier got the short end of the stick.
In boxing hype always gets out of control, I don't see anyone saying Larry Holmes is a bad guy for playing the race card in the Gerry Cooney fight and turning it into something huge in which Jesse Jackson actually HAD to interfere.Quote:
Originally Posted by RozzySean
One thing about Ali that everyone knew is that he hyped every fight the same way he talked a lot of trash during the hype, did a lot of egotistical things before and during it, but Bert Sugar said it best when he said that Ali did it in a playful way and always showed respect afterwards, I believe he said it when he was comparing the way Floyd Mayweather talked trash and the way Ali did.
Ali is looked at as the greatest for more then just his boxing career but what he has done afterwards. It's not like Ali gets the credit for being the greatest for nothing, Ali went and did something positive in his life and in attempts to help make others lives better. Ali got his reputation as the greatest for what he has done after boxing and all the effort he put into helping others. So to say Joe got the short end of the stick is bullshit in my opinion, because its not like Ali retired, did nothing, and got the credit. Know what I mean?
And let's not forget that Ali WAS held horrible in the account of the public for his antics and got death threats and things as well, and you can bet your ass Joe Frazier wasn't the only person who suffered.
My whole thing is, it's not always what someone does, but what they do after.
After all was said and done, Ali called Frazier great, gave him the credit he deserved, and apologized for all he has done. And even to this day has tried to reconcile with Frazier and Joe decides not to, to this day.
People want to say that Ali is an egotistical hypocrite and such, but then they go and ignore that on the first documentary of these two(on the first fight) Frazier said near the end of it that he has swallowed many razor blades in his career and that they cut inside and that if he has said anything thats hurt Ali he just wanted to say, hey man, he was sorry.
And then he turns around in this documentary and completely goes back on that. Why is no one talking about that? Why is everyone ONLY talking about what Ali's done? Thats as unfair as people are saying Ali gets the treatment as the greatest, in my opinion.
But like i said, I try to look at how people end these feuds, Ali has gone on to do great things as a person and in the community and tried to reconcile with Frazier, Frazier still chooses not to. And that's not Ali's fault. You cannot fault a man for trying and Ali has tried time and time again to make things right with Frazier who keeps refusing. If Ali had done nothing and just went "screw frazier i beat him i don't care" then I understand people saying they don't respect him. But Ali has apologized to his son, apologized, and tried to this day to make things right with Frazier who still refuses. So how can Joe say "why didn't he come to me and apologize" when to this day Ali has tried and Frazier doesn't accept it. How can you blame Ali for trying?
There are some very fucked up things that Ali said to Frazier, and they do make you angry, but people trying to paint Ali as some middle-class knob who had it all at the time ignores the realities of pre-civil rights America and is clearly either a tool or a prick. Some of the stuff Ali said, particularly the gorilla thing went too far, and he has more than readily admitted that how he treated Frazier was disgraceful & ranks with his treatment of Malcolm X after his ex-communication as the most shameful moments of his life. Frazier in no way deserved the treatment he got before his fights with Ali, however, the pleasure he takes in Ali having Parkinsons is disgusting, and when even his own family believe he has to let it go & stop with the hate then maybe there's something to it. Frazier has no problem 'making up' with Ali every time there's a money opportunity for him, then going back to spewing abuse. You can't call on Ali without then doing the same to Frazier. As for the documentary, it is typical of all documentaries (I've made some so I know) the filmaker only shows you what he wants to, they only use Ferdie Pacheco (who I've long thought of as a media-hungry moron) from the 'Ali side'. It is only at the end that it hints at anything that might not show Frazier in a favourable light, and even then it isn't as forceful with it as it is when showing Ali as a bastard. The pair of them both have things they should be proud & ashamed of in their lives, as we all do.
Rep coming your way, agree 100 percentQuote:
Originally Posted by JazMerkin
I though it was an excellent documentary. For so long Ali has been the darling of the media, and it is refreshing to see a film that is critical of him.
Not seen it yet, but am well aware of Ali and his faults. Glad to hear that there is a little more openness occurring about what Ali was like instead of all the mollycoddling we get far too often.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lance Uppercut
I tend to agree with Majesty on this one. There is no excusing Ali's actions in regards to Frazier, but he has come out and apologized as well doing some great things internationally. I don't hold it against Frazier for his bitterness but its hard to back the guy when he seems to take a certain amount of pride in having a part in Ali's health.
The documentary was great. In terms of Ali, yeah what he did to Frazier verbally was fucked up. But we must analyze Ali within the context of the 60's/early 70's and not under the context of today. That era was one that was racially charged and Ali was under the influence of the nation of Islam and in my opinion, brainwashed (even Malcolm X began to see the hypocrisy of the movement and drifted away from it before he was assassinated). Ali was part promoter/part fool/and part brainwashed socially, basically playing to the racial undertones to sell the fight. If you noticed, the Philipino crowd booed him when he was introduced as opposed to the crowd in the Rumble in the Jungle, where Ali was an icon. But really, what I focused on was those three fights and how they both mustered the strength to fight 14 rounds in the last fight. That was totally amazing.
Look i like Ali but what the man did was clearly wrong and i not a man to hold a grudge on someone but i have never had that happen to me. For the love of god calling Frasier a uncle tom a man who grow up picking cotton and having his own race turning on him is alot dude. I mean going to his house with a gun when his kids are there and calling him a gorilla ever chance he got i mean shit theres a line were people wont forgive. And it is probably a line Ali crossed with Fraizer and people saying its bad about him taking pleasure in what he did Ali yet again i dont like what happen to Ali. But he never called me a gorrila and made my life hell so if Fraizer takes pleasure in Ali being a cripple because he fucked him over his whole life well i guess i could understand his view on it i guess. People saying he was humbled after his career it might of been because what happen to Ali because i am sure parkensons can humble a mans ego.
Ali was a great boxer, I have enjoyed watching many of his fights. But outside of the ring, he has little merit in my eyes. The guy was a dick, and we can all defend him and say it's about selling tickets or being brainwashed. But at the end of the day, being a dick is being a dick. And Ali was often a dick.
I cannot get any more philosophical than that. I disagree with a lot of Ali's views about race, religion and women. For a man with such a quick tongue, his actual thinking processes never could keep up so well.
Yes, it's sad how Ali is today. I have sympathy for that. And I don't agree with Fraziers comments, but I can see where his comments come from. Ali seems to be revered for more than his boxing which is something I don't really adhere to nor understand so well. I respect the boxing only, it was exceptional, but I was never too keen on what came out of his mouth.
I am definitely not defending Ali. I am simply implying that he did not mature intellectually as someone like Malcolm X did.Quote:
Originally Posted by miles
It was all gimmicks to sell the fight though. If you watch champions forever you can see that they have a lot of respect for each other.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyle
Also you talk about Ali being beat up in all 3 fights with Joe. Well Joe is a certain top 10 all time great HW. He beat up on everyone he ever fought barring Foreman and that was only because he was tailor made for Foreman. There is no shame at all in being beat up by Smokin' Joe!
"I ain't got no quarrel with them Viet Cong...They never called me n!gger."--Muhammad AliQuote:
Originally Posted by Lyle
If you're smart enough to understand this quote, you should be smart enough to realize why Ali (as well as millions of Black people) were pissed off and why this thread is so asinine.
Quote:
Originally Posted by match"I ain't got no quarrel with them Viet Cong...They never called me n!gger."--Muhammad AliQuote:
Originally Posted by Lyle
If you're smart enough to understand this quote, you should be smart enough to realize why Ali (as well as millions of Black people) were pissed off and why this thread is so asinine.
Yea, a thread about a boxing documentary, on a boxing forum, where people have different opinions. That is "so asinine.":rolleyes:
His opinion on Ali isn't asinine, the fact that he can't see why Muhammad Ali was so bitter is.
Well also what i did not know is that Joe Fraizer was blind in one eye which gotta be a hell of a problem in boxing yet he still went on atg.
I love it when they booed Ali during introduction. The majority of the crowd was pro Frazier.
I honestly thought the documentary was bias in Fraizer's favor heavily.Quote:
Originally Posted by The FightfanQuote:
Originally Posted by Lyle
I watched this documentary and I really got angry. If you choose Ali you were right and if Frazier you were a racist or an uncle Tom. What a crock of shit. Nevermind the fact that Frazier was just a hard nosed blue collared fighter who worked his whole life since he was a kid and Ali was a middle-class school enrolled student who was bred for olympic glory. Something oddley enough when Ali called Frazier an Uncle Tom and a pure nigger. When Frazier was actually treated like a slave his whole life and had to fight for everything he got. I kept saying god damn people were stupid back then. Here is a man who has done nothing to nobody just won the heavyweight crown by KO,and didn't hype himself as "The Greatest" kept his mouth shut and did his job,also helped his friend Ali in need by giving him money when he was flat broke,then get's him back into the ring, then Ali spits back in his face by destroying Frazier's life and Frazier's children from simple childish name calling and the stupid ass media ate the shit up. Fuck everyone who was ever involved with that and thought it was ok. And FUCK Ferdie Pachaceo another piece of shit after that stupid stupid interview last night saying " it was great ". Sorry I'm getting a little pissed off again. But in the end Frazier is still pissed and rightfully so. Fuck Ali for doing that who was his FRIEND in the beginning. He is a backstabbing piece of shit in my mind.
I like Fraizer better so doesn't bother me but I'm just sayin thats what I saw.
From the documentaries around the first fight him and Frazier were both going at it verbally. Ali was much more hardcore in what he was saying but didn't Frazier refer to Ali as "Cassius" during the first fight hype as well?
The main fact is, Ali then and Ali now and Frazier then and Frazier now. Ali moved on and made strides to be a better person after his boxing career which is why he is "the greatest"
Joe still holds onto 30 years ago and only reconciles with Ali if there is money involved and then reniggs it.
Nothing those two have done should be excused by anyone.
The difference is Ali has nothing to be excused for now, he's tried, and done all he can to make things right. Frazier is intent on still having some, and thats his fault.
watching the documentary would make you think the third fight crowd was pro Frazier all night
But when I watch the fight on ESPN Classic they booed at the start and Ali started making faces and pretending to cry and they began cheering. And they cheered even more when Ali and Frazier were talking trash in the ring introductions and I think Ali was saying "I'm gonna kick your ass" And Frazier was saying something back.
But it wasn't a pro Frazier only crowd as the documentary would let you think, they cheered at all the high spots, not just when Frazier did something.
yea he did, one of the rare few moments that Ali turned serious while the fight was being promotedQuote:
Originally Posted by Majesty
Well, yeah, it probably was, and I'm glad it was. Ali gets a pass on way too much BS and he's become this uber-hero, more than he really deserves. I think some of the point of it was to show another perspective on "The Greatest." Frazier never got the credit he really deserved. Part of this has to do with the Foreman fight, but Ali and his mouth also contributed. Ali fans convinced themselves that the first fight was closer than it was and that it was a fluke. In the second fight, the ref played a big role, and in the third fight, Ali might have beat (barely) Frazier, but Frazier BEAT UP Ali.Quote:
Originally Posted by HulkI honestly thought the documentary was bias in Fraizer's favor heavily.Quote:
Originally Posted by The FightfanQuote:
Originally Posted by Lyle
I watched this documentary and I really got angry. If you choose Ali you were right and if Frazier you were a racist or an uncle Tom. What a crock of shit. Nevermind the fact that Frazier was just a hard nosed blue collared fighter who worked his whole life since he was a kid and Ali was a middle-class school enrolled student who was bred for olympic glory. Something oddley enough when Ali called Frazier an Uncle Tom and a pure nigger. When Frazier was actually treated like a slave his whole life and had to fight for everything he got. I kept saying god damn people were stupid back then. Here is a man who has done nothing to nobody just won the heavyweight crown by KO,and didn't hype himself as "The Greatest" kept his mouth shut and did his job,also helped his friend Ali in need by giving him money when he was flat broke,then get's him back into the ring, then Ali spits back in his face by destroying Frazier's life and Frazier's children from simple childish name calling and the stupid ass media ate the shit up. Fuck everyone who was ever involved with that and thought it was ok. And FUCK Ferdie Pachaceo another piece of shit after that stupid stupid interview last night saying " it was great ". Sorry I'm getting a little pissed off again. But in the end Frazier is still pissed and rightfully so. Fuck Ali for doing that who was his FRIEND in the beginning. He is a backstabbing piece of shit in my mind.
I like Fraizer better so doesn't bother me but I'm just sayin thats what I saw.
I wish they would play the entire fight either before or after (preferably both) the documentary. I hate seeing like 10 seconds of a round and then not seeing the rest. It is like strip tease. :(
Frazier did call Ali Cassius and other stuff but that was only in response to the stuff Ali was coming out with. It was not Ali's finest hour.Quote:
Originally Posted by Majesty
Match, I understand Vietnam wasn't popular, I understand Ali along with plenty of people (not just blacks) didn't want to go, I understand the racism that was going on at that time which is why I am anti-Ali....he was supposed to be a Civil Rights figure, Jesse Jackson hung out with him, Bryant Gumbel praised him.....but that was at the expense of Joe Frazier the epitome of who was being hurt at that time in history, and to not see the injustice that was done to Joe Frazier shows a bias that is idiotic. Joe Frazier grew up in South Carolina and I will tell you honestly one person to another, AT NO POINT IN HISTORY WOULD I WANT TO BE BLACK AND LIVE IN SOUTH CAROLINA. I would rather be in Alabama, Georgia, Texas, ANYWHERE other than South Carolina! He was poor, he got supported by a group of people that happened to be majority white (who hand the money at that point in time?) and because Ali berated Joe Frazier (a guy who helped Ali through the hard times of his being banned from boxing) Joe's kids got beat up in school just because they were Joe Frazier's kids.....how would that make you feel, being black, being shunned by people of your own race just because someone called you a name and apparently he had more credibility at the time, why I don't know.
I am always shocked to find when we agree on something.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing
As for Joe Frazier calling Ali 'Cassius'...is that better or worse than calling a black person a "gorrilla", "Uncle Tom", or just plain ignorant. It's not like Frazier rolled out with the Family who owned Ali's relatives or anything. Muhammed Ali changed his name when he joined one of the dumbest fucking groups in the entire world the "Nation of Islam" a group of people who think that all muslims are black and the KKK is correct on segregation, and that the blue eyed white devil causes all the evil in the world...I think calling Ali 'Cassius' in hindsight ought to be considered a compliment along the lines of saying something like "I know you aren't THAT dumb Ali".
Quote:
Originally Posted by RozzySeanWell, yeah, it probably was, and I'm glad it was. Ali gets a pass on way too much BS and he's become this uber-hero, more than he really deserves. I think some of the point of it was to show another perspective on "The Greatest." Frazier never got the credit he really deserved. Part of this has to do with the Foreman fight, but Ali and his mouth also contributed. Ali fans convinced themselves that the first fight was closer than it was and that it was a fluke. In the second fight, the ref played a big role, and in the third fight, Ali might have beat (barely) Frazier, but Frazier BEAT UP Ali.Quote:
Originally Posted by HulkI honestly thought the documentary was bias in Fraizer's favor heavily.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Fightfan
I like Fraizer better so doesn't bother me but I'm just sayin thats what I saw.
Ali got claimed the greatest for the things he did after his boxing career or he'd be known as just a great heavyweight fighter like Joe Frazier. It's not Ali's fault that Frazier didn't decide to do what he did after retirement. To say Frazier gets the short end of the stick is BS.
Ali's kudos not only come from his boxing career but the great things he has done afterwards. Frazier did what most boxers do after they retire and there's no problem with that. Ali went on and did great things outside of boxing, being a motivational speaker, donating to hungry children doing a lot of things and making a lot of stands etc that get him called the Greatest. It's not Ali's fault that Frazier didn't do the same thing to get the same credit.
Stop blaming Ali for doing something after his boxing career and being called the greatest because of it and say its his fault Frazier doesn't get the credit when he didnt do what Ali did after his career.
Your logic can make a lot of sense now but you have to understand how times were back then and how different mindsets were. It's not the world you or I grew up in and its something neither will understand nor be able to make sense of because we werent living back then and don't know what our opinions would be or say we'd be raised the same. So to look back on times and say "its stupid to live that way" yeah, hindsight is always 20-20. But at the time, it wasnt looked at it that way. It was over 40 years ago, there's no point in trying to make sense of it now imo.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyle
I am always shocked to find when we agree on something.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing
As for Joe Frazier calling Ali 'Cassius'...is that better or worse than calling a black person a "gorrilla", "Uncle Tom", or just plain ignorant. It's not like Frazier rolled out with the Family who owned Ali's relatives or anything. Muhammed Ali changed his name when he joined one of the dumbest fucking groups in the entire world the "Nation of Islam" a group of people who think that all muslims are black and the KKK is correct on segregation, and that the blue eyed white devil causes all the evil in the world...I think calling Ali 'Cassius' in hindsight ought to be considered a compliment along the lines of saying something like "I know you aren't THAT dumb Ali".
I addressed that in the part of my post that you chose not to quote....I think it is fucking childish and down right mean to trash a member of your own race the way Ali did for the reasons Ali did.Quote:
Originally Posted by Majesty
Was Joe Frazier white?
Did Joe Frazier start the Vietnam War?
Did Joe Frazier stand for segregation?
Did Joe Frazier unleash dogs and firehoses on black people?
Did Joe Frazier call anyone a n*gger?
The answers to all those questions is NO but oddly enough Ali did support segregation and Ali made Joe Frazier the embodiment of all those issues in the minds of some VERY ignorant people in the 1970's.
And post the 1968 Presidential Election the Vietnam War was extremely unpopular.
Two things about this Lyle, first and foremost, Ali grew up in Louisville Kentucky, which as I'm sure you know falls below the Mason Dixie line. There was only one state in the deep south that was clearly worse than all others, and that was the state that lead the country in lynchings, Mississippi. To say Ali had it easier than Frazier would be as dumb as saying Frazier had it easier than Ali. They were two Black men growing up in the south. And most importantly, Ali's uncle tom attacks on Frazier were fueled by the fact that he was not an advocate on Civil Rights, similarly to how O.J. Simpson came under fire for not being an outspoken advocate on civil rights. This was WHY Ali berrated him. Joe Frazier represented the establishment, in that he was allowed a shot at a title that was stripped from Ali by the establishment. Ali's mistake was that he thought Frazier was an uncle tom because he refused to speak out, but in reality he was just a simple man who did not have the social conciousness that Ali did. This is WHY Ali attacked him.Quote:
Originally Posted by LyleMatch, I understand Vietnam wasn't popular, I understand Ali along with plenty of people (not just blacks) didn't want to go, I understand the racism that was going on at that time which is why I am anti-Ali....he was supposed to be a Civil Rights figure, Jesse Jackson hung out with him, Bryant Gumbel praised him.....but that was at the expense of Joe Frazier the epitome of who was being hurt at that time in history, and to not see the injustice that was done to Joe Frazier shows a bias that is idiotic. Joe Frazier grew up in South Carolina and I will tell you honestly one person to another, AT NO POINT IN HISTORY WOULD I WANT TO BE BLACK AND LIVE IN SOUTH CAROLINA. I would rather be in Alabama, Georgia, Texas, ANYWHERE other than South Carolina! He was poor, he got supported by a group of people that happened to be majority white (who hand the money at that point in time?) and because Ali berated Joe Frazier (a guy who helped Ali through the hard times of his being banned from boxing) Joe's kids got beat up in school just because they were Joe Frazier's kids.....how would that make you feel, being black, being shunned by people of your own race just because someone called you a name and apparently he had more credibility at the time, why I don't know.
I am always shocked to find when we agree on something.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing
As for Joe Frazier calling Ali 'Cassius'...is that better or worse than calling a black person a "gorrilla", "Uncle Tom", or just plain ignorant. It's not like Frazier rolled out with the Family who owned Ali's relatives or anything. Muhammed Ali changed his name when he joined one of the dumbest fucking groups in the entire world the "Nation of Islam" a group of people who think that all muslims are black and the KKK is correct on segregation, and that the blue eyed white devil causes all the evil in the world...I think calling Ali 'Cassius' in hindsight ought to be considered a compliment along the lines of saying something like "I know you aren't THAT dumb Ali".