Fighters who were never the same after losing once

Some highly-touted fighters who were hyped for a long while----sometimes the hype was so obviously ordered by the marketeers and promoters it was laughable---wound up, after being fed a string of tomato cans (at times with undefeated records to boot), in line for a title shot or atleast for a shot at moving into a #1 or #2 ranking in their divisions, ONLY TO SUDDENLY VAPORIZE AND DISAPPEAR FROM BOXING VIRTUALLY FOREVER, AFTER LOSING "UNEXPECTEDLY" AND IN A QUITE THOROUGH AND DISAPPOINTING WAY.

It's like that bully phenomenon, when the bully finally loses, or the Big Bad Guy finally gets an ass-kicking---HE IS NEVER THE SAME AND WILL NEVER COMMAND THE SAME TERROR HE ONCE ALLEGEDLY COMMANDED.

Fernando Vargas, after that humiliating loss to Oscar, in which the big bad Steroided-Up Fernando was roughing up the Golden Boy for most of the fight, virtually disappeared from boxing, and could not come to terms with his big macho image having dried up and withered in the sun.

David Reid, after being touted as the next Sugar Ray, was never ever the same after that sudden and "unexpected" loss to Tito Trinidad, and has he ever fought again since that day? I'll go to Boxing Records and check in a minute, but I would be surprised if he did put on the gloves again.

Big Bad Courage Tschabalala, whose overhand rights were being compared in their devastating effects to Earnie Shavers', turned out to be quite the pansy, after his ass-whipping by Darryl Wilson and Bryan Scott.

Iron Mike Tyson was saying "Owww!" on his stool with that big balloon on his eye, and was never the Big Bad Mike after that night in Tokyo when someone stood up to the bully and put on a stellar show.


How many fighters have we seen experience this? Many, indeed. They were considered big and bad and ugly, and fighters quivered in their boots just to imagine stepping into the ring with them.

But once that aura of invincibility has been shattered, they are never the same. Sometimes, they even disappear forever, or, at best, go on to fight a few more times against guys we never heard of with 20-15 records, and then retire. It's kind of sad.

It takes a true great like Ali to come back from big losses and hang in the boxing game as a real contender or champion. It is not just the doubts about one's physical abilities that could end the careers, but mentally the fighters aren't the same after having been so hyped and touted, though untested hitherto, and then losing utterly.

I do suspect that Miguel Cotto will never be the same after that "unexpected" loss to Margarito. I don't believe he will be back in the same contention as he once enjoyed. That loss was more of a psychological trouncing, one that he had never experienced before. The guy just took 2 knees, and showed he was spent. Couldnt even stand up to fight. He has to wonder about his stamina, his willingness to stand and fight to the end, like Norton and Holmes did, like Frazier and Ali did.

I believe that will be all for Miguel Cotto.

Agree, Tyson was never the same once he lost his aura and the bully had been faced up to, although I do believe his heart had gone from the game around that time also.

Naz was never the same and only fought once after his first loss, again the aura he portrayed about being the best thing since sliced bread was gone.

The modern era has to blame in general as it's not acceptable to lose, in the 40's 50's and 60's it was acceptable to lose but as long as you went out trying. Nowaday it's straight to the scrapheap after one loss and mentally fighters find it hard to come back.

Most notable one IMO is Meldrick Taylor after his lose to Julio Cesar Chavez.

Mugabi....Jirov (should have left Hvys alone)....in an odd way David Tua...Curry,Meldrick Taylor.....Shame really.Do we really know a fighter until they have to return from a loss ?

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Originally Posted by Spicoli surfs 'Nawlins

Mugabi....Jirov (should have left Hvys alone)....in an odd way David Tua...Curry,Meldrick Taylor.....Shame really.Do we really know a fighter until they have to return from a loss ?

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Excellent call on Mugabi, never the same after Hagler dished out a return bully session to the "Beast" . Also Curry, he was just so shocked at losing his new SRL tag, give him his dues though he did try but as the thread says was never the same.

Fernando Vargas.Tito took his soul and I'm not one for 'what ifs' but i still say Fernando was turning it around untill a succession of low blows stole his legs .
That is still the best fight in living memory for me but the beating Fernando took at the end of such a gruelling fight and at such a young age , no way he could have recovered.

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Originally Posted by brocktonblockbust

Some highly-touted fighters who were hyped for a long while----sometimes the hype was so obviously ordered by the marketeers and promoters it was laughable---wound up, after being fed a string of tomato cans (at times with undefeated records to boot), in line for a title shot or atleast for a shot at moving into a #1 or #2 ranking in their divisions, ONLY TO SUDDENLY VAPORIZE AND DISAPPEAR FROM BOXING VIRTUALLY FOREVER, AFTER LOSING "UNEXPECTEDLY" AND IN A QUITE THOROUGH AND DISAPPOINTING WAY.

It's like that bully phenomenon, when the bully finally loses, or the Big Bad Guy finally gets an ass-kicking---HE IS NEVER THE SAME AND WILL NEVER COMMAND THE SAME TERROR HE ONCE ALLEGEDLY COMMANDED.

Fernando Vargas, after that humiliating loss to Oscar, in which the big bad Steroided-Up Fernando was roughing up the Golden Boy for most of the fight, virtually disappeared from boxing, and could not come to terms with his big macho image having dried up and withered in the sun.

David Reid, after being touted as the next Sugar Ray, was never ever the same after that sudden and "unexpected" loss to Tito Trinidad, and has he ever fought again since that day? I'll go to Boxing Records and check in a minute, but I would be surprised if he did put on the gloves again.

Big Bad Courage Tschabalala, whose overhand rights were being compared in their devastating effects to Earnie Shavers', turned out to be quite the pansy, after his ass-whipping by Darryl Wilson and Bryan Scott.

Iron Mike Tyson was saying "Owww!" on his stool with that big balloon on his eye, and was never the Big Bad Mike after that night in Tokyo when someone stood up to the bully and put on a stellar show.


How many fighters have we seen experience this? Many, indeed. They were considered big and bad and ugly, and fighters quivered in their boots just to imagine stepping into the ring with them.

But once that aura of invincibility has been shattered, they are never the same. Sometimes, they even disappear forever, or, at best, go on to fight a few more times against guys we never heard of with 20-15 records, and then retire. It's kind of sad.

It takes a true great like Ali to come back from big losses and hang in the boxing game as a real contender or champion. It is not just the doubts about one's physical abilities that could end the careers, but mentally the fighters aren't the same after having been so hyped and touted, though untested hitherto, and then losing utterly.

I do suspect that Miguel Cotto will never be the same after that "unexpected" loss to Margarito. I don't believe he will be back in the same contention as he once enjoyed. That loss was more of a psychological trouncing, one that he had never experienced before. The guy just took 2 knees, and showed he was spent. Couldnt even stand up to fight. He has to wonder about his stamina, his willingness to stand and fight to the end, like Norton and Holmes did, like Frazier and Ali did.

I believe that will be all for Miguel Cotto.

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You clearly have something against Cotto that prevents you from being objective when it comes to analyzing him as a boxer. For example, Cotto looked very focus and in shape during his last fight, even though it was against a guy like Jennings. So how can you tell there are psychological effects from the Margarito fight? If you are predicting this, that's fine, but at this point Cotto has not given you reason to come to this conclusion.

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Originally Posted by Big Dick Whittington

Fernando Vargas.Tito took his soul and I'm not one for 'what ifs' but i still say Fernando was turning it around untill a succession of low blows stole his legs .
That is still the best fight in living memory for me but the beating Fernando took at the end of such a gruelling fight and at such a young age , no way he could have recovered.

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First of all, there was one low blow not a "succession." Second, the reason the fight went on so long was because after Vargas knockdown of Trinidad and Tito's subsequent low blow, Vargas thumbed Trinidad, severely limiting Tito's vision for the rest of the fight. That occurred in the fifth round, if I am not mistaken. Just check a video of the fight.

David Haye has just got better and better since his loss to Thompson! So he has never been the same.

Tito Trinidad after his lost to Hopkins, I really feel like the executioner broke something into his soul at this moment.

Jones Jr after Tarver: Perhaps he recovered in the meantime, I am not sure, but he's been gun shy for his next 3 fights and I really feel like something went away for good after that lost... at least, a small fraction of him.

Jermaine Taylor: I really feel that his lost against Pavlik did damage his innerself, I wouldn't say it'll be permanent but definitely, he wasn't the same after that lost.

theres a big difference between losing by KO and a decisio - unless its a completely one sided affair where you get a battering eg Lacy

Hamed springs to mind and Jones (though maybe on the slide)

david reid was never as good as people perceived him to be.

And Riddick Bowe (although he did 'win' against Golota !)

if Haye is sparked by Wlad we won't see him again I reckon

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Originally Posted by Mark TKO

theres a big difference between losing by KO and a decision -

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Yes, and I'll add that there's also a difference between a quick KO and a sustained beat down KO.

Wlad against Sanders, MAB against Junior Jones, Lennox against McCall and Rahman, Pavlik-Taylor I... fights like that, a guy got caught with a big shot, and the fight was over shortly thereafter. There wasn't too much damage inflicted.

Whereas fights like Chavez-Taylor, Trinidad-Reid, Trinidad-Vargas, Margarito-Cotto, those were long grueling fights with tons of accumulated damage, and losses like that are tougher to recover from.

Gerry "Looney" Cooney!!!!! Holmes really messed him all the hell up.

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Originally Posted by Rican

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Originally Posted by Big Dick Whittington

Fernando Vargas.Tito took his soul and I'm not one for 'what ifs' but i still say Fernando was turning it around untill a succession of low blows stole his legs .
That is still the best fight in living memory for me but the beating Fernando took at the end of such a gruelling fight and at such a young age , no way he could have recovered.

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First of all, there was one low blow not a "succession." Second, the reason the fight went on so long was because after Vargas knockdown of Trinidad and Tito's subsequent low blow, Vargas thumbed Trinidad, severely limiting Tito's vision for the rest of the fight. That occurred in the fifth round, if I am not mistaken. Just check a video of the fight.

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Tito intentionally hit Vargas low after the knockdown to buy himself some time! Watch the fight without being biased and you will see that I am right.


:Oops: Low blow!!!!!

Great thread you guys! Thank you all.

Yeah to be honest, I am no liar, I must say Cotto has not shown anything yet that he has been broken psychologically by that Margarito loss, but its just something I feel strongly about.

All the conditions are right for such a thing to happen. Its just my prediction.

Yeah Mugabi-Hagler, and Cooney-Holmes are fantastic examples of this too. Great thread guys! :)

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Originally Posted by Big Dick Whittington

Fernando Vargas.Tito took his soul and I'm not one for 'what ifs' but i still say Fernando was turning it around untill a succession of low blows stole his legs .
That is still the best fight in living memory for me but the beating Fernando took at the end of such a gruelling fight and at such a young age , no way he could have recovered.

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honestly i agree with you that Vargas could have been something great, but i don't think the low blows were intentional same as in the Cotto/Judah fight

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Originally Posted by Rican

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Originally Posted by Big Dick Whittington

Fernando Vargas.Tito took his soul and I'm not one for 'what ifs' but i still say Fernando was turning it around untill a succession of low blows stole his legs .
That is still the best fight in living memory for me but the beating Fernando took at the end of such a gruelling fight and at such a young age , no way he could have recovered.

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First of all, there was one low blow not a "succession." Second, the reason the fight went on so long was because after Vargas knockdown of Trinidad and Tito's subsequent low blow, Vargas thumbed Trinidad, severely limiting Tito's vision for the rest of the fight. That occurred in the fifth round, if I am not mistaken. Just check a video of the fight.

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there were 2 low blows, one he got a warning and the 2nd he got a point deducted, and the thumb was also unintentional cause first off they were using gloves with the thumbs sown attached to the golve, just a mishap

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Originally Posted by scraptime

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Originally Posted by Rican

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Originally Posted by Big Dick Whittington

Fernando Vargas.Tito took his soul and I'm not one for 'what ifs' but i still say Fernando was turning it around untill a succession of low blows stole his legs .
That is still the best fight in living memory for me but the beating Fernando took at the end of such a gruelling fight and at such a young age , no way he could have recovered.

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First of all, there was one low blow not a "succession." Second, the reason the fight went on so long was because after Vargas knockdown of Trinidad and Tito's subsequent low blow, Vargas thumbed Trinidad, severely limiting Tito's vision for the rest of the fight. That occurred in the fifth round, if I am not mistaken. Just check a video of the fight.

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Tito intentionally hit Vargas low after the knockdown to buy himself some time! Watch the fight without being biased and you will see that I am right.


:Oops: Low blow!!!!!

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and don't start with that bullshit against, the gap from the 2nd low blow to the final round was plenty of time for Vargas to get his legs back, and they weren't intentional same as in Cotto/Judah, Trinidad always had the tendency to shoot the left hook, and more than a couple times he'd hit low, but never looked like it was on purpose, on that note Tito was never really the same after his loss to B-Hop

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Originally Posted by jamiebhoy

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Originally Posted by Spicoli surfs 'Nawlins

Mugabi....Jirov (should have left Hvys alone)....in an odd way David Tua...Curry,Meldrick Taylor.....Shame really.Do we really know a fighter until they have to return from a loss ?

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Excellent call on Mugabi, never the same after Hagler dished out a return bully session to the "Beast" . Also Curry, he was just so shocked at losing his new SRL tag, give him his dues though he did try but as the thread says was never the same.

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It was as if his aura of invinsability desolved after that fight.He was all heart and fury there with Hagler and then fell apart next time out with Thomas.He rode his power to a title but never the same. Curry...man he had everything on his shoulders.The weight of the media and publics obsession with finding/creating the "next" this or that.We do it every generation it seems.He was no Leonard.

Jeff Lacy comes to mind straight away.

Michael Grant after Lennox
Bojado after Rubio
Zarate after Gomez
Naz after MAB
Garza after Meza
Moore after Duran

Naz tops them all for me.

Mark Breland
Jeff Lacy

Louis Veader after Micky Ward
Foreman after Ali - did anybody mention that?
Michael Nunn after James Toney.

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Originally Posted by RozzySean

Louis Veader after Micky Ward
Foreman after Ali - did anybody mention that?
Michael Nunn after James Toney.

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shouldn't be mentioned because 10 yrs later he came back stronger than ever, hello, he knocked out Moorer to become the oldest champion ever

Meldrick Taylor comes to mind. Hector Camacho maybe?

Acelino 'sob & sniffle' Freitas vs. Diego Corrales

How about Jeff Fenech after Azumah Nelson 'Draw' and drubbing in rematch.Granted he won the rubber match :-X;D

actually I agree with the 1st poster---Foreman IS a good example, even though the second poster is quite correct that he came back and won the title again 15 years later---actually 20 years later after Zaire. Wow that really is amazing, even though Moorer wasn't what we thought he was. (I saw "we" for politeness' sake)

Felix Trinidad comes to mind after the Hopkins fight as does Naz. Montell Griffin after Jones destroyed him in 1. Dariusz Michalczewski after the Julio Gonzalez fight.

Doesn't exactly fit the topic but after being robbed of a win by Taylor I think Winky just looks like he can't be bothered any more.

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Originally Posted by brocktonblockbust

David Reid, after being touted as the next Sugar Ray, was never ever the same after that sudden and "unexpected" loss to Tito Trinidad, and has he ever fought again since that day? I'll go to Boxing Records and check in a minute, but I would be surprised if he did put on the gloves again.

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He fought 3 times after. And the loss was not unexpected. Reid was almost a one eye fighter. He was a loss waiting to happen. That's why he cashed out against Trinidad

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Originally Posted by Taeth

Most notable one IMO is Meldrick Taylor after his lose to Julio Cesar Chavez.

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That's cuz Chavez ruined him.

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Originally Posted by Mark TKO

if Haye is sparked by Wlad we won't see him again I reckon

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I'm sure the Wlad loss won't be his last

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Originally Posted by Big Dick Whittington

Fernando Vargas.Tito took his soul and I'm not one for 'what ifs' but i still say Fernando was turning it around untill a succession of low blows stole his legs .
That is still the best fight in living memory for me but the beating Fernando took at the end of such a gruelling fight and at such a young age , no way he could have recovered.

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I think that's BS he fought with all the heart in the world against Oscar, its just Oscar was too good of a boxer for him.

Never get why Vargas gets crap even after his loses he still went at it with all he had he was youngest guy win the lmw title i believe. Not only taht he had good wins including a win over Wright and there is no shame in losing to Mosley, Tito, and Oscar because he was competive to. He acompished alot i think and even after he lost he still fought with heart.

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Originally Posted by Taeth

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Originally Posted by Big Dick Whittington

Fernando Vargas.Tito took his soul and I'm not one for 'what ifs' but i still say Fernando was turning it around untill a succession of low blows stole his legs .
That is still the best fight in living memory for me but the beating Fernando took at the end of such a gruelling fight and at such a young age , no way he could have recovered.

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I think that's BS he fought with all the heart in the world against Oscar, its just Oscar was too good of a boxer for him.

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I believe the undefeated Vargas who fought Trinidad would have beaten ODH.

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Originally Posted by Master

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Originally Posted by Taeth

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Originally Posted by Big Dick Whittington

Fernando Vargas.Tito took his soul and I'm not one for 'what ifs' but i still say Fernando was turning it around untill a succession of low blows stole his legs .
That is still the best fight in living memory for me but the beating Fernando took at the end of such a gruelling fight and at such a young age , no way he could have recovered.

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I think that's BS he fought with all the heart in the world against Oscar, its just Oscar was too good of a boxer for him.

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I believe the undefeated Vargas who fought Trinidad would have beaten ODH.

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Probably, he was rushed into the big fights too soon, I think he needed a bit more time to mature as a fighter before he went anywhere near Tito.

I dont know about that Vargas lost to Trinidad that Oscar boxed circles around and should got the fucking decsion why he didnt well never know.

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Originally Posted by Taeth

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Originally Posted by Big Dick Whittington

Fernando Vargas.Tito took his soul and I'm not one for 'what ifs' but i still say Fernando was turning it around untill a succession of low blows stole his legs .
That is still the best fight in living memory for me but the beating Fernando took at the end of such a gruelling fight and at such a young age , no way he could have recovered.

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I think that's BS he fought with all the heart in the world against Oscar, its just Oscar was too good of a boxer for him.

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Sorry. He may have "fought his heart out" against Oscar, but he wasn't the same fighter AFTER Tito. You may recall... he was floored quite easily and put on queer street by the lightly regarded Wilfredo Rivera (also from PR) in a fight shortly after the Tito fight. Had Wilfredo taken advantage of that knockdown, he'd have given Fernando his 2nd KO loss. So it was Tito who ruined Fernando, not Oscar.

;)

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Originally Posted by RozzySean

Foreman after Ali - did anybody mention that?
Michael Nunn after James Toney.

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Foreman looked pretty much back to form in 76, the Young fight was the one that cost him 10 years....

As for Nunn, I would say it was the Barkley fight was the one that began Nunn's fall, although the Toney fight was still an upset.

Zab stands out for me here, never recovered from that KO by Tszyu. He has had some good wins but generally has been disappointing since his first loss.

Meldrick Taylor comes to mind and Roy Jones Jr just couldn't come to grips with Tarver and has been average at best since.

George Foreman went awol after the Ali loss, had a good second win over Frazier but the invincibility was gone within two years and he retires at age 27?

I will be interested to see how Cotto comesback after his first loss, many fighters comeback better than ever such as Whitaker, Tszyu and more recently Darchinyan. I think the jury is still out on Hatton. A lot of this fight game is pyschological and it all depends on how you prepare yourself physically and more importantly approach your next fight mentally. Zab for example just hasn't coped well at all.

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Originally Posted by TitoFan

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Originally Posted by Taeth

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Originally Posted by Big Dick Whittington

Fernando Vargas.Tito took his soul and I'm not one for 'what ifs' but i still say Fernando was turning it around untill a succession of low blows stole his legs .
That is still the best fight in living memory for me but the beating Fernando took at the end of such a gruelling fight and at such a young age , no way he could have recovered.

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I think that's BS he fought with all the heart in the world against Oscar, its just Oscar was too good of a boxer for him.

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Sorry. He may have "fought his heart out" against Oscar, but he wasn't the same fighter AFTER Tito. You may recall... he was floored quite easily and put on queer street by the lightly regarded Wilfredo Rivera (also from PR) in a fight shortly after the Tito fight. Had Wilfredo taken advantage of that knockdown, he'd have given Fernando his 2nd KO loss. So it was Tito who ruined Fernando, not Oscar.

;)

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agreed, but you gotta admit Vargas lost a little more of himself after every loss

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Originally Posted by THE THIRD MAN

Zab stands out for me here, never recovered from that KO by Tszyu. He has had some good wins but generally has been disappointing since his first loss.

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Great call... here can't believe no one else listed him.

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Originally Posted by TitoFan

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Originally Posted by Taeth

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Originally Posted by Big Dick Whittington

Fernando Vargas.Tito took his soul and I'm not one for 'what ifs' but i still say Fernando was turning it around untill a succession of low blows stole his legs .
That is still the best fight in living memory for me but the beating Fernando took at the end of such a gruelling fight and at such a young age , no way he could have recovered.

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I think that's BS he fought with all the heart in the world against Oscar, its just Oscar was too good of a boxer for him.

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Sorry. He may have "fought his heart out" against Oscar, but he wasn't the same fighter AFTER Tito. You may recall... he was floored quite easily and put on queer street by the lightly regarded Wilfredo Rivera (also from PR) in a fight shortly after the Tito fight. Had Wilfredo taken advantage of that knockdown, he'd have given Fernando his 2nd KO loss. So it was Tito who ruined Fernando, not Oscar.

;)

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Lightly regarded? You ain't seen much of Rivera have you? Rivera was a very good fighter. If there was any justice in the world he would of got that win against Pernell Whitaker. He deserved it.