Hatton - Pacman - Who gets the most Credit for the win?

Just been reading the Ring magazine and they did a 20man poll of Boxing stars and trainers/broadcasters etc... and 17 favoured Pacman to win....only 3 favoured Hatton.

Notably Collazo, Lazcano and Malignaggi all voted for Pac, as did David Diaz.

So part of my question is...what credit does Hatton get if he pulls it off? Where does he rise to on the p4p rankings? Does his power and size advantage give him a bigger advantage than Pac's obvious speed advantage? If not, then would it be concievable for Hatton to rise to number 1 in the p4p rankings on the back of a victory.

Before everyone starts with the 'would John Ruiz have been number 1 if he'd a beaten Roy Jones' it's also worth bearing in mind that Hatton already holds a W over a guy who was number 2/3 on most peoples lists.

Personally i feel if he wins i'd put him on par with JMM, Pac and B-Hop....providing it's a close fight. I say close because a first round knockout will most likely point out that Pac shouldn't be fighting anywhere near 140, which would take away from Hatton's victory. Wins over 2 top 5 p4p fighters and a win over a borderline top ten(at the time - castillo) make a strong argument.


What happens to Pac if he gets the W? Will there be clear water between him and JMM? Will it prove that 140 could be his division? Will it prove that size and power isn't the be all and end all?

What's everyones thoughts on this fight and what ramifications does the result have on the p4p list?

I think the fact that Pac just beat DLH at a higher weight than he is fighting now, throws the "well Pac went up in weight for this fight" excuse out the door..

If Hatton wins, i give him full credit, as Pac proved he has brought his power with him up in weight..

With that said, if Hatton wins, there will be many Pac fans saying that Pac was too small for Ricky..

Does Ricky rate above Pac on the p4p chart after this? That's tough.. i'm going to say no, that he would need to beat another top dog to have that status..

I will have a hard time watching this fight, as i want Ricky to win, but i want Pac to win so that Floyd comes out and fights him..

Hatton wouldn't go P4P no.1 because this clearly isn't Pac's BEST fighting weight. Even with victory it wouldn't mean Ricky is better P4P than Pac.

Should Hatton get credit for the win? All the credit in the world. He's the underdog. Pac is P4P 1 because he's a great fighter in his pomp. This will easily surpass the Tsyzu win. It will be Hatton's greatest.

What three "experts" gave Hatton the nod?

I think it depends what side of the fence you're on and who you think will have the tougher challenge in store for them. In regards to the general boxing world, I think Ricky might just get a little more credit if he wins than if Manny wins. Hatton seems to slowly be becoming the underdog, or maybe I've just read too many of Saddoboxer's posts :lickish:

I want Ricky to win, and even with a very fast and clever opponent/trainer in front of him, I think he can do it.

It's gonna be a crackin' fight and only...11 ish days away!

Can't wait to hear Floyd Snr's post fight poem :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by RP33

I think the fact that Pac just beat DLH at a higher weight than he is fighting now, throws the "well Pac went up in weight for this fight" excuse out the door..

If Hatton wins, i give him full credit, as Pac proved he has brought his power with him up in weight..

With that said, if Hatton wins, there will be many Pac fans saying that Pac was too small for Ricky..

Does Ricky rate above Pac on the p4p chart after this? That's tough.. i'm going to say no, that he would need to beat another top dog to have that status..

I will have a hard time watching this fight, as i want Ricky to win, but i want Pac to win so that Floyd comes out and fights him..

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I said a long time ago that a lot of 'lighter' fighters are under-nourished....not 3rd world style or anything like that, just under-nourished in the sense that they're not taking on enough nutrients to fully support the workload that comes with being a top ranked fighter - training etc...

I argued that once this fighter starts eating enough macronutrients to support the workload that not only will he move up in weight - naturally, but he will also become a better fighter as once the nutrition side of things is taken care of, the training intensity will go up and ultimately in the ring performances will benefit.

I think this is the case with Manny and i thought it even before he beat Diaz and Oscar. Did Oscar and Diaz make him look that good or is Pac really really comfortable anywhere between 130-147? I guess that's why this fight is so intriguing.

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Originally Posted by Fenster

Hatton wouldn't go P4P no.1 because this clearly isn't Pac's BEST fighting weight. Even with victory it wouldn't mean Ricky is better P4P than Pac.

Should Hatton get credit for the win? All the credit in the world. He's the underdog. Pac is P4P 1 because he's a great fighter in his pomp. This will easily surpass the Tsyzu win. It will be Hatton's greatest.

What three "experts" gave Hatton the nod?

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Mark Collings - Esquire magazine uk

Stuart Brennan - Manchester Evening News

Steve Bunce - ;D

Most reckon Pac by stoppage.

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Originally Posted by ono

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Originally Posted by Fenster

Hatton wouldn't go P4P no.1 because this clearly isn't Pac's BEST fighting weight. Even with victory it wouldn't mean Ricky is better P4P than Pac.

Should Hatton get credit for the win? All the credit in the world. He's the underdog. Pac is P4P 1 because he's a great fighter in his pomp. This will easily surpass the Tsyzu win. It will be Hatton's greatest.

What three "experts" gave Hatton the nod?

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Mark Collings - Esquire magazine uk

Stuart Brennan - Manchester Evening News

Steve Bunce - ;D

Most reckon Pac by stoppage.

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You got a link for the frauds who gave it to Pac ?

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Originally Posted by ono

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Originally Posted by Fenster

Hatton wouldn't go P4P no.1 because this clearly isn't Pac's BEST fighting weight. Even with victory it wouldn't mean Ricky is better P4P than Pac.

Should Hatton get credit for the win? All the credit in the world. He's the underdog. Pac is P4P 1 because he's a great fighter in his pomp. This will easily surpass the Tsyzu win. It will be Hatton's greatest.

What three "experts" gave Hatton the nod?

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Mark Collings - Esquire magazine uk

Stuart Brennan - Manchester Evening News

Steve Bunce - ;D

Most reckon Pac by stoppage.

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Bunce.. what a surprise. ;D

MOST "experts" picked Oscar to beat Pac in The Ring mag before that fight.

I think Hatton can win.. although Pac is a rightful favourite.

Hatton is top five pound for pound without doubt in my opinion should he beat Manny. Manny will probably get more credit if he wins the fight even though Hatton is the underdog.

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Originally Posted by leftylee

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Originally Posted by ono

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Originally Posted by Fenster

Hatton wouldn't go P4P no.1 because this clearly isn't Pac's BEST fighting weight. Even with victory it wouldn't mean Ricky is better P4P than Pac.

Should Hatton get credit for the win? All the credit in the world. He's the underdog. Pac is P4P 1 because he's a great fighter in his pomp. This will easily surpass the Tsyzu win. It will be Hatton's greatest.

What three "experts" gave Hatton the nod?

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Mark Collings - Esquire magazine uk

Stuart Brennan - Manchester Evening News

Steve Bunce - ;D

Most reckon Pac by stoppage.

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You got a link for the frauds who gave it to Pac ?

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It's in the magazine i'll list the important ones.

Steve Farhood

Naazim Richardson - SSM and B-Hop's trainer

Juan Lazcano

Paulie Malignaggi

Luis Collazo

David Diaz

Al Bernstein

Claude Abrams

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Originally Posted by Fenster

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Originally Posted by ono

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Originally Posted by Fenster

Hatton wouldn't go P4P no.1 because this clearly isn't Pac's BEST fighting weight. Even with victory it wouldn't mean Ricky is better P4P than Pac.

Should Hatton get credit for the win? All the credit in the world. He's the underdog. Pac is P4P 1 because he's a great fighter in his pomp. This will easily surpass the Tsyzu win. It will be Hatton's greatest.

What three "experts" gave Hatton the nod?

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Mark Collings - Esquire magazine uk

Stuart Brennan - Manchester Evening News

Steve Bunce - ;D

Most reckon Pac by stoppage.

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Bunce.. what a surprise. ;D

MOST "experts" picked Oscar to beat Pac in The Ring mag before that fight.

I think Hatton can win.. although Pac is a rightful favourite.

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My prediction skills predicted correctly on that fight

They also have Winky to beat Williams quite comfortably aswell in this issue. So there is some hope afterall.

Buncey bumbled on about how speed wins fights and Hatton will have to have the fight of his life just to be competitive. In Buncey's words he needs to 'kibosh left hooks from eight feet away......i see Hatton winning on points'

So he sorta went back on himself.

both should get full credit, i know if Manny loses that the excuses are gonna come pouring in but fuck that, he's being picked as the favorite and that says enough that Hatton should get full credit for a win, but regarding the p4p thing, if Hatton does win he shouldn't be thrown up to the new #1, IMO Pac should be dropped to #2 or #3 and Marquez gets the #1 spot

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Originally Posted by ono

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Originally Posted by Fenster

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Originally Posted by ono

Mark Collings - Esquire magazine uk

Stuart Brennan - Manchester Evening News

Steve Bunce - ;D

Most reckon Pac by stoppage.

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Bunce.. what a surprise. ;D

MOST "experts" picked Oscar to beat Pac in The Ring mag before that fight.

I think Hatton can win.. although Pac is a rightful favourite.

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My prediction skills predicted correctly on that fight

They also have Winky to beat Williams quite comfortably aswell in this issue. So there is some hope afterall.

Buncey bumbled on about how speed wins fights and Hatton will have to have the fight of his life just to be competitive. In Buncey's words he needs to 'kibosh left hooks from eight feet away......i see Hatton winning on points'

So he sorta went back on himself.

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hahaha ;D

Explain how Pac is gonna win but pick the Brit anyway. Smart.

If asked I could discredit either of them, its a gift

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Originally Posted by Fenster

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Originally Posted by ono

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Originally Posted by Fenster

Bunce.. what a surprise. ;D

MOST "experts" picked Oscar to beat Pac in The Ring mag before that fight.

I think Hatton can win.. although Pac is a rightful favourite.

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My prediction skills predicted correctly on that fight

They also have Winky to beat Williams quite comfortably aswell in this issue. So there is some hope afterall.

Buncey bumbled on about how speed wins fights and Hatton will have to have the fight of his life just to be competitive. In Buncey's words he needs to 'kibosh left hooks from eight feet away......i see Hatton winning on points'

So he sorta went back on himself.

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hahaha ;D

Explain how Pac is gonna win but pick the Brit anyway. Smart.

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Yeah he can fall back onto if Pac wins now. Clever prediction skills. ;D

It has to be Hatton because he is the underdog, winning this would put him in the running for p4p a fight with the winner of marquez vs mayweather jr (if it happens) would fight him then the winner would be p4p champion.

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Originally Posted by mattboxingfan

It has to be Hatton because he is the underdog, winning this would put him in the running for p4p a fight with the winner of marquez vs mayweather jr (if it happens) would fight him then the winner would be p4p champion.

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Agree with the winner after those fights would be P4P 1. I dont think any of the above can beat Floyd Mayweather jnr.

pacquiao could get knocked spark out in the 1st round and within 48 hours people on here will still be claiming the better man lost ;D

Only way genuinely great fighters like hatton, cotto, hopkins get any credit on this forum is by doing what there best up and shutting up the doubters in the process!!

pacquiao will get stopped!!!!!!!!!!!

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Originally Posted by hattonthehammer

pacquiao could get knocked spark out in the 1st round and within 48 hours people on here will still be claiming the better man lost ;D

Only way genuinely great fighters like hatton, cotto, hopkins get any credit on this forum is by doing what there best up and shutting up the doubters in the process!!

pacquiao will get stopped!!!!!!!!!!!

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Looks like someone is in panic mood. :rolleyes:

This is a total mismatch in favor of Pac. That's why Hatton will get huge credits if he upsets Pac.

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Originally Posted by Killa From Manila

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Originally Posted by hattonthehammer

pacquiao could get knocked spark out in the 1st round and within 48 hours people on here will still be claiming the better man lost ;D

Only way genuinely great fighters like hatton, cotto, hopkins get any credit on this forum is by doing what there best up and shutting up the doubters in the process!!

pacquiao will get stopped!!!!!!!!!!!

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Looks like someone is in panic mood. :rolleyes:

This is a total mismatch in favor of Pac. That's why Hatton will get huge credits if he upsets Pac.

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Why is this a mismatch??? .They are both proven world champions and its gonna b a cracking fight that Hatton prevails.Iam picking the 5th round tko.

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Originally Posted by Killa From Manila

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Originally Posted by hattonthehammer

pacquiao could get knocked spark out in the 1st round and within 48 hours people on here will still be claiming the better man lost ;D

Only way genuinely great fighters like hatton, cotto, hopkins get any credit on this forum is by doing what there best up and shutting up the doubters in the process!!

pacquiao will get stopped!!!!!!!!!!!

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Looks like someone is in panic mood. :rolleyes:

This is a total mismatch in favor of Pac. That's why Hatton will get huge credits if he upsets Pac.

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i think you mean panic MODE

Hatton will defintely get more credit if he beats Manny, whatever the circumstance. He's a heavy underdog going into the fight and rightfully so.

On the flip side to all of this is what happens to the loser of this fight? Manny can still drop down and get huge fights, Hatton on the other hand is pretty much finished in my eyes. That's why I'm praying he wins, plus i couldn't handle the likes of Saddoboxer on here afterwards...

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Originally Posted by littlebif

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Originally Posted by Killa From Manila

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Originally Posted by hattonthehammer

pacquiao could get knocked spark out in the 1st round and within 48 hours people on here will still be claiming the better man lost ;D

Only way genuinely great fighters like hatton, cotto, hopkins get any credit on this forum is by doing what there best up and shutting up the doubters in the process!!

pacquiao will get stopped!!!!!!!!!!!

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Looks like someone is in panic mood. :rolleyes:

This is a total mismatch in favor of Pac. That's why Hatton will get huge credits if he upsets Pac.

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Why is this a mismatch???

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Coz Hatton has absolute no advantage at all. He's heading down on the other side of the hill. All these "size and strenght advantage" talks are NOW myths and misconceptions for him.

Hatton is done.

IMO it depends on how Hatton wins, if he bullies Pacquiao around ala Kostya Tszyu, then I say size and strength and more important styles did play a factor in this fight because Pacquiao isn't nearly as good going backwards as he is going forwards. However, if Hatton uses good skills and uses intelligent in and out movement and gradually breaks Pacquiao down IMO he deserves to be in the top 5 p4p, I think he gave Mayweather a very competitive fight, he just wasn't as good and a guy like Floyd who guys stronger as a fight progresses that difference just increases as the fight goes longer.

Also sometimes the better man loses fights. Holyfield agaisnt Moorer, Bowe in his prime. The most important one is pep against Saddler.

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Originally Posted by Killa From Manila

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Originally Posted by littlebif

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Originally Posted by Killa From Manila

Looks like someone is in panic mood. :rolleyes:

This is a total mismatch in favor of Pac. That's why Hatton will get huge credits if he upsets Pac.

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Why is this a mismatch???

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Coz Hatton has absolute no advantage at all. He's heading down on the other side of the hill. All these "size and strenght advantage" talks are NOW myths and misconceptions for him.

Hatton is done.

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Been a natural LW a decent puncher at the weight and Hatton is a better fighter on the inside there is a couple.Since when has Pacman been this unbeatable fighter.

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Originally Posted by littlebif

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Originally Posted by Killa From Manila

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Originally Posted by littlebif

Why is this a mismatch???

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Coz Hatton has absolute no advantage at all. He's heading down on the other side of the hill. All these "size and strenght advantage" talks are NOW myths and misconceptions for him.

Hatton is done.

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Been a natural LW a decent puncher at the weight and Hatton is a better fighter on the inside there is a couple.Since when has Pacman been this unbeatable fighter.

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Since his peak,... his prime (which is right at the moment). Hatton is tailor made for Pac that's why Ricky is the underdog.

Even Mike is not giving that much love for Ricky...




Mike Tyson: Manny Pacquiao's skills will chill Ricky Hatton
By Michael Marley, Examiner.com, Wed, 22 Apr 2009
http://image.examiner.com/images/blo...5955_tyson.jpg

If Pacman never moved up to 147 and beat a weight drained golden boy,and stopped at 135 and for 1 more fight, then moved up to fight Hatton,Hatton might of still been a underdog but alot more people would of backed him.

Pacman is a great fighter and very good to watch but i feel this is a step to far against a strong 140 agressive fighter in Hatton.

I am very certain Hatton will win this but everyone else seems unsure. A bit like when everyone favoured Moseley over Winky and us Brits were sure Winky would win because he battered our best fighters with ease. It is making me doubt myself. :-\

my wife & i are going to the fight may 2nd... at the m.g.m. grand.... we go to allot of the big fights in las vegas we live only 240 miles from vegas we have free room,free food & free fight tickets.... they are the nosebleeds... but what the heck they are free......now if manny winn's he will no the best pfp in the world.... if the upset comes..... i don't think you can call "the hitman" the best pfp in the world....... now saying that...... i think the hitman knocks the pacman out in under 7 rounds......i think fight fans are putting to much into the da de hoya lose to manny.... just giving manny to much credit.... it was a solid win.... but lets face it... oscar was shot !!!

scott "aka" bulldogboogers corona hills, california

I think that it is a win-win situation, if Hatton wins, they will say that the defeat against FLoyd was not representative of his talent and that this victory just shows how the Hitman is talented, if PAcman wins, they will say that it is just another proof of his greatness, perhaps the defeat would be easier on Pac's side as he could have the "size" excuse and that Hatton wasn't depleted by a wrong diet like Oscar was but in case of victory, I don't think that one would have more credit than the other, I really see it as more or less equal.

Who gets the most credit? Hmmm... tough question, this one. Let's see... I guess my answer would be........

Pacman, of course!!!!!


C'mon... are you serious?!?!? I don't care HOW much Hatton fans want to build this up as a fight that will vault Hatton to #1 p4p should he win. IT SHOULDN'T. Do the math. Hatton's natural fighting weight for most if not all of his career has been 140 pounds. Pac came up from way below that. What's there to argue? Because Pac destroyed an old and miscalculating De La Hoya, who was looking for an easy payday and legacy-making fight? So the hell what?!? DLH must have surprised himself with how flat he came out, how he had nothing left. All the credit in the world to Pac, 'cause of course he didn't know this (that DLH was washed up) BEFORE the fight, and took it anyway. And Pac DID look better at his higher weight than most fighters look when they jump so much. But don't get carried away. Hatton is NOT washed up, and is probably licking his chops at the prospect of adding the undersized Pac to his trophies.

Now if PAC should win.......well, that's another story altogether.

:soapbox:

From a Hatton fan point of view I would have to say Pacman would get more respect for a win. he is fighting the more natural man at the weight and it would be a contradiction for Hatton fans to say anything else IMO.

Hatton won't get the same credit for beating a smaller man regardless of being the P4P best, he will get credit for being the best in this division and will shut people up for saying he was done.

overall a bigger achievement for Pac to win, but if he gets sparked don't come on saying oh well he wasn't at his natural weight etc etc . No excuses you take the fight you take the result.

I would have to say it would work equally both ways.

Pac is the man who the majority of writers are picking and who is being backed at the bookies. He has also fought at WW and beat a faded modern great. If Hatton overturns that then he deserves full credit.

But having said that, I think Pacs recent step up is all smoke and mirrors and am convinced that Hatton will take this. Hatton has reigned at 140 for a long time and seems to be rejuvinated. He should really beat a man who was only a year ago getting his backside kicked at 130.

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Originally Posted by miles

I would have to say it would work equally both ways.

Pac is the man who the majority of writers are picking and who is being backed at the bookies. He has also fought at WW and beat a faded modern great. If Hatton overturns that then he deserves full credit.

But having said that, I think Pacs recent step up is all smoke and mirrors and am convinced that Hatton will take this. Hatton has reigned at 140 for a long time and seems to be rejuvinated. He should really beat a man who was only a year ago getting his backside kicked at 130.

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I respect you miles... but you seem to be contradicting yourself a bit here. On the one hand, Hatton "deserves full credit". On the other, he admittedly should beat a man who "only a year ago was getting his backside kicked at 130."

Also, basing your "deserves full credit" argument on the fact that some writers back Pacquiao is a bit of flawed logic, if you ask me. Fact of the matter is... some writers are "bandwagon-ish" and wouldn't be able to pick a winner correctly in a fight between Wlad Klitschko and Ivan Calderon.

;)

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Originally Posted by TitoFan

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Originally Posted by miles

I would have to say it would work equally both ways.

Pac is the man who the majority of writers are picking and who is being backed at the bookies. He has also fought at WW and beat a faded modern great. If Hatton overturns that then he deserves full credit.

But having said that, I think Pacs recent step up is all smoke and mirrors and am convinced that Hatton will take this. Hatton has reigned at 140 for a long time and seems to be rejuvinated. He should really beat a man who was only a year ago getting his backside kicked at 130.

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I respect you miles... but you seem to be contradicting yourself a bit here. On the one hand, Hatton "deserves full credit". On the other, he admittedly should beat a man who "only a year ago was getting his backside kicked at 130."

Also, basing your "deserves full credit" argument on the fact that some writers back Pacquiao is a bit of flawed logic, if you ask me. Fact of the matter is... some writers are "bandwagon-ish" and wouldn't be able to pick a winner correctly in a fight between Wlad Klitschko and Ivan Calderon.

;)

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Yeah, there is an obvious contradiction there and it was intended, though not worded very well. What I should be saying is that all the naysayers owe Hatton their dues when he overcomes all of these "overwhelming odds". But my own opinion is that Hatton should do a number on Pac, so I don't think I will need to be eating humble pie.

It's not a foregone conclusion, but Hatton should really be beating the shite out of Manny. But Manny has that speed and could make it tricky.

Yes, I seem to be annoyed by the writers for acting like they are. It's echoes of Calzaghe: Lacy in that its the US writers are seemingly overlooking Hattons obvious credentials and tools to take this.

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Originally Posted by miles

I would have to say it would work equally both ways.

Pac is the man who the majority of writers are picking and who is being backed at the bookies. He has also fought at WW and beat a faded modern great. If Hatton overturns that then he deserves full credit.

But having said that, I think Pacs recent step up is all smoke and mirrors and am convinced that Hatton will take this. Hatton has reigned at 140 for a long time and seems to be rejuvinated. He should really beat a man who was only a year ago getting his backside kicked at 130.

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With a bit of hindsight it could go each way, as you say with Pac being the big favourite amongst tipsters and bookies then if Hatton does win he should get some credit.
Although WHEN he wins I can see it being a hiding to nothing for Hatton, everyone will flip flop on what they said and start admiting that the ODLH result was marred and that Pac was at the wrong weight, and a truckload of other excuses to take away from Hatton, they will all need to remember it was there in black and white so man up and accept the better man won.

Hatton will get credit if he wins since he's clearly the underdog here...

PAC will get more credit if he wins even if he's the favorite because this fight will significantly enhance PAC legacy... If PAC will be victorious, he will capture his 4th lineal title (112, 126, 130, 140) and also becomes a 6 division titliest (112, 122, 126, 130, 135, 140)... It's one hell of a boxing accomplishment...
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was just about to post after reading exactly the same story in the Ring

Am stunned that 17 of the 20 'experts' pick Manny - and only UK ones go for Hatton.

If Manny wins he cements his ranking as #1, if Hatton wins he goes to about 4 or 5 in my book

As far as I am concerned Hatton is favourite here

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Originally Posted by SaddoBoxer

Hatton will get credit if he wins since he's clearly the underdog here...

PAC will get more credit if he wins even if he's the favorite because this fight will significantly enhance PAC legacy... If PAC will be victorious, he will capture his 4th lineal title (112, 126, 130, 140) and also becomes a 6 division titliest (112, 122, 126, 130, 135, 140)... It's one hell of a boxing accomplishment...
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Damn right buddy,... damn right.

Hatton is stuck at 140. :vd::rotflmao:

Sad but true.