Now i know Carl Froch want to fight Joe Calzaghe but i can't see that happening he also fancies this fight this one i can see happening this year so who wins in this unification fight for the WBC/IBF titles?
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Now i know Carl Froch want to fight Joe Calzaghe but i can't see that happening he also fancies this fight this one i can see happening this year so who wins in this unification fight for the WBC/IBF titles?
From what we saw Saturday it’s hard to believe that Froch would have any chances to beat Bute on points; of course Carl could take Lucian out but I rather see a UD in Bute favor.
I don’t think we will see this happen this year; from what I know Bute and Green are already in negotiations to fight this summer and after that probably (hopefully) we’ll see Bute vs. Andrade II.
I think Froch vs. Andrade would be a much more interesting fight, like I said a few months ago.
I have a hard time picking Froch over Bute, but I would make him a very live underdog. Bute would clearly outpoint him, but Froch would certainly have the chance absorb lots of abuse and gut his way to stopping Bute.
Unfortunately for Froch, I think that Andrade's body attack had a lot to do with Bute slowing down enough for Andrade to catch him. Froch isn't the body puncher that Andrade is, though he does some other things much better. Also, Bute has shown that he can punch a little. He KO'd Zuniga pretty quickly and Zuniga takes a pretty good punch.
froch is way too clever a fighter for bute.
Would take him a good while but carl would work bute out and punish him in a bad way.
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Originally Posted by RozzySean
I don't think Bute would clearly outpoint him at all. Jermain Taylor didn't clearly outpoint him. Froch was catching up all the time and had it gone to the cards he would lost a split decision on the official cards, drawn on Al Bernsteins card and drawn on one and won on the two press row cards according to Showtime.
So of 7 cards, 3 official judges, and 4 expert pundits Froch would have won on 3, drawn on 2 and lost on 2 had it gone to points.
And that's against Jermain Taylor, a former undisputed middleweight champ who twice defeated Bernard Hopkins. I don't consider Lucian Bute to have fought and beaten anything like the competition Taylor has and he very nearly came unstuck against Librado Andrade last time out, a guy who was 1-14 as an amatuer.
Just becuase Froch had a bad start against the best, quickest and slickest pure boxer in the supermiddleweight division doesn't mean he can only hope to win fights by knockout from now on.
Froch's power could force Bute into his shell and even if he lasted the distance Froch could win a clear decision.
Bute doesn't suffer the stamina problems JT has at least not close to that extent. Prior to the 9th round, I had JT winning every round less one, and one was by two points.
Bute has spent his career at 168. He is bigger than Froch. He is a southpaw. He is faster than Froch. Although he faded in the Andrade fight, he doesn't generally fade.
If Froch fights Bute, my money is on Bute.
Bute is better in nearly every aspect of the game. Froch's heart, determination, and chin make him a live underdog, but I think Bute beats him 9 times out of 10.
And Bilbo, amateur records often have very little bearing on the pro game. Andrade's pro record is what matters, not his amateur one.
Oh ive shit out here, i clicked Bute but i meant Froch.
I dont know if its my English heart speaking, especially after what i saw at the weekend but i just feel the pure speed and footwork of Taylor is what bedazzled Froch for alot of the fight and i think Bute is slower than Taylor. Which means Froch can do more work and that could well be enough.
But im less sure than i would of been 4 days ago.
Personally, I am certain Bute will mangle him if ever it happens, Bute has way too much power, speed and technique for the Cobra, less we forget he even floored Andrade, which ain't a small accomplishment.
NOw some peoples will probably argue about the end of the fight; BEfore the end, Bute won every single rounds on every cards except one if I recall, he was literally toying Andrade and tagging him at will. IN the last round, he did something he shouldn't have because of cockyness probably: he went toe to toe and traded bombs and didn't look at his energy, we know the following, a contested end with him running out of gaz in the very last moments, which never happened to him before.
So: First step: Green this summer. This match shouldn't be a problem at all. If ever he wins against Green, there is his revenge against Andrade this autumn, which will drag a bit more the medias from the US, which is needed because Bute ain't much publicized in Uncle Sam's land. After that... I have 2 guesses: There will be a mandatory fight, I think Bute will pick either the winner of Ward-Miranda as they are both big names in the US and would give him more credibility in the US/visibility or MAds Larsen as INterbox apparently owe a favor to Sauerland. In fact, Larsen was supposed to be Bute's opponent, there was talks but for a reason I ignore, they finally turned to Zuniga, apparently for visibility too.
For that reason, I think they will chose either of those 2 possibilities, if Bute wins both fights of course. That's what comes after that will be interesting; I think that after a manoeuvre, Interbox will try to unify the titles; Froch if he's still champion or the very dangerous Kessler would be on the line but well, that's a bit distant so let's see but I think that working the thing this way would be very logical.
You can say many good things about Carl Froch, but clever is not one of them. Remember, this is Froch, not Calzaghe we are talking about.Quote:
Originally Posted by hattonthehammer
If this fight happens I'm willing to sig bet that he doesn't get past Allan Green.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nameless
Green will knock him out.
Bute I'm talking about obviously, Froch beats them both.
If you look at boxing history, put a big punching tough fighter in with a great boxer and the great boxer usually wins. However put a big punching tough fighter in with a great boxer with durability problems, the puncher usually knocks him out or at least imposes his will on him enough to win the fight.
Bute has durability issues...........
Quote:
Originally Posted by CFH
I'm just using his amateur record to highlight how deficient he is in boxing fundamentals. When he's stepped up in class against Bute and Kessler he got completely and utterly outclassed. He's far too slow and predictable to beat an elite fighter unless they implode.
Froch on the other hand has proven amatuer skills. A two time ABA champion and a bronze medallist at the World Amatuer Championships in 2000, this is a guy who has tremendous skills.
His bad habits reared their heads in the first few rounds against Taylor but in terms of boxing ability and pedigree he is leaps ahead of Librado Andrade.
If the two ever fight Froch will pick him apart and in my opinion be the first person to knock him out.
You guys are all judging Froch off the back of a single fight, in fact the first 5 rounds of a single fight but he's a much better fighter than that.
Josh if he ever fights Bute or Andrade we HAVE to have a sig bet buddy.
He'd smoke them both :cool:
Aside from the Andrade fight, what durability issues has Bute shown? And there is an argument that it wasn't durability in that fight, but rather diverging from the game plan and challenging Andrade, that caused him problems in the last round.Quote:
Originally Posted by BilboIf this fight happens I'm willing to sig bet that he doesn't get past Allan Green.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nameless
Green will knock him out.
Bute I'm talking about obviously, Froch beats them both.
If you look at boxing history, put a big punching tough fighter in with a great boxer and the great boxer usually wins. However put a big punching tough fighter in with a great boxer with durability problems, the puncher usually knocks him out or at least imposes his will on him enough to win the fight.
Bute has durability issues...........
As for your take that Allan Green will pose problems for Bute, however, I completely agree. Allan Green poses problems for anyone at 168.
Bute will box circles around Froch. Sig bet if it happens.
N.B. Denis Inkin beat Froch in the amateurs.Quote:
Originally Posted by BilboQuote:
Originally Posted by CFH
I'm just using his amateur record to highlight how deficient he is in boxing fundamentals. When he's stepped up in class against Bute and Kessler he got completely and utterly outclassed. He's far too slow and predictable to beat an elite fighter unless they implode.
Froch on the other hand has proven amatuer skills. A two time ABA champion and a bronze medallist at the World Amatuer Championships in 2000, this is a guy who has tremendous skills.
His bad habits reared their heads in the first few rounds against Taylor but in terms of boxing ability and pedigree he is leaps ahead of Librado Andrade.
If the two ever fight Froch will pick him apart and in my opinion be the first person to knock him out.
You guys are all judging Froch off the back of a single fight, in fact the first 5 rounds of a single fight but he's a much better fighter than that.
Josh if he ever fights Bute or Andrade we HAVE to have a sig bet buddy.
He'd smoke them both :cool:
Yes he did but it was 9 years ago, a four rounder and Froch dropped him in the fourth with 5 seconds remaining so I don't fancy his chances of going 12. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by RantcatratN.B. Denis Inkin beat Froch in the amateurs.Quote:
Originally Posted by BilboQuote:
Originally Posted by CFH
I'm just using his amateur record to highlight how deficient he is in boxing fundamentals. When he's stepped up in class against Bute and Kessler he got completely and utterly outclassed. He's far too slow and predictable to beat an elite fighter unless they implode.
Froch on the other hand has proven amatuer skills. A two time ABA champion and a bronze medallist at the World Amatuer Championships in 2000, this is a guy who has tremendous skills.
His bad habits reared their heads in the first few rounds against Taylor but in terms of boxing ability and pedigree he is leaps ahead of Librado Andrade.
If the two ever fight Froch will pick him apart and in my opinion be the first person to knock him out.
You guys are all judging Froch off the back of a single fight, in fact the first 5 rounds of a single fight but he's a much better fighter than that.
Josh if he ever fights Bute or Andrade we HAVE to have a sig bet buddy.
He'd smoke them both :cool:
Andrade is not bereft of boxing skills, he simply has a skill set that is better suited to the pro game. You don't become a top 10 ranked fighter on one of boxings deepest divisions without skills. Amateur and professional boxing, while they share many similarities (obviously), are very different games. Amateur success is a good indicator of potential professional success, but it gaurantees nothing.Quote:
Originally Posted by BilboQuote:
Originally Posted by CFH
I'm just using his amateur record to highlight how deficient he is in boxing fundamentals. When he's stepped up in class against Bute and Kessler he got completely and utterly outclassed. He's far too slow and predictable to beat an elite fighter unless they implode.
Froch on the other hand has proven amatuer skills. A two time ABA champion and a bronze medallist at the World Amatuer Championships in 2000, this is a guy who has tremendous skills.
His bad habits reared their heads in the first few rounds against Taylor but in terms of boxing ability and pedigree he is leaps ahead of Librado Andrade.
If the two ever fight Froch will pick him apart and in my opinion be the first person to knock him out.
You guys are all judging Froch off the back of a single fight, in fact the first 5 rounds of a single fight but he's a much better fighter than that.
Josh if he ever fights Bute or Andrade we HAVE to have a sig bet buddy.
He'd smoke them both :cool:
You're drunk on Froch's victory over Taylor. It was a good victory, but you're getting carried away. I said before that I felt Froch - Andrade was a pick'em fight that I think Andrade would win, so it's not as if I'm completely underrating or disregarding Froch, I just feel Bute (who also has a sterling amateur pedigree) is superior to Froch in almost every meaningful category: he has better defense, he's faster in terms of hand and footspeed, he hits hard - maybe not harder than Froch, but hard enough -, he's younger, his offense is much more varied, he punches straighter and tighter, he's shown resiliancy and heart, and on top of all that he's a southpaw.
I don't even really like Bute, but you can't deny that he has serious skills, but he will beat Green and Froch. I actually think Green, style-wise, might pose a bigger threat to Bute than Froch. Bute beating Froch is by no means a foregone conclusion, but I think Bute should win.
I'm not sure Bute has durability issues. Boxers like Bute traditionally eat pure punchers for lunch, true, and Bute was eating Andrade for lunch. Andrade created durability problems for Bute with great body punching and an almost inhumane ability to absorb Bute's shots. Froch isn't the body puncher that Andrade is, and he doesn't have Andrade's chin. It's far more likely that Bute will do exactly what Taylor did to Froch with losing it in the end because Bute doesn't have a history of gassing out like Taylor does. Also, Froch probably won't be able to slow Bute down with body shots the way that Andrade did.Quote:
Originally Posted by BilboIf this fight happens I'm willing to sig bet that he doesn't get past Allan Green.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nameless
Green will knock him out.
Bute I'm talking about obviously, Froch beats them both.
If you look at boxing history, put a big punching tough fighter in with a great boxer and the great boxer usually wins. However put a big punching tough fighter in with a great boxer with durability problems, the puncher usually knocks him out or at least imposes his will on him enough to win the fight.
Bute has durability issues...........
I would give Froch a chance against Bute based on Froch having a unique style and a lot of heart. Froch doesn't "obviously" beat either, especially not Bute. Both are winnable fights for him, but don't go betting the hobbit hole on him in either case.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RozzySeanI'm not sure Bute has durability issues. Boxers like Bute traditionally eat pure punchers for lunch, true, and Bute was eating Andrade for lunch. Andrade created durability problems for Bute with great body punching and an almost inhumane ability to absorb Bute's shots. Froch isn't the body puncher that Andrade is, and he doesn't have Andrade's chin. It's far more likely that Bute will do exactly what Taylor did to Froch with losing it in the end because Bute doesn't have a history of gassing out like Taylor does. Also, Froch probably won't be able to slow Bute down with body shots the way that Andrade did.Quote:
Originally Posted by BilboIf this fight happens I'm willing to sig bet that he doesn't get past Allan Green.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nameless
Green will knock him out.
Bute I'm talking about obviously, Froch beats them both.
If you look at boxing history, put a big punching tough fighter in with a great boxer and the great boxer usually wins. However put a big punching tough fighter in with a great boxer with durability problems, the puncher usually knocks him out or at least imposes his will on him enough to win the fight.
Bute has durability issues...........
I would give Froch a chance against Bute based on Froch having a unique style and a lot of heart. Froch doesn't "obviously" beat either, especially not Bute. Both are winnable fights for him, but don't go betting the hobbit hole on him in either case.
Don't you worry about me I can always dig another one.
That's the thing, he doesn't really. He went 12 rounds easily with every boxers and ran out once against Andrade in the last 10 seconds and it's because he got too cocky and went trading punch for punch with the best jaw in the business. Green-Bute? Bet ya 100 bucks Bute wins convincingly or by a knock out, idem for Froch if ever we have the chance to see it, do not forget Bute's faster and way more powerful than Green, he floored Andrade, that's not a small achievement when we know the guy and that he did resist Kessler's slaughter for 12 rounds, do not forget neither that Bute won every rounds on almost every cards except for one against him too so except for the 10 last seconds, he did against Andrade as good as Kessler except that he did knock him down on top of it.Quote:
Originally Posted by BilboIf this fight happens I'm willing to sig bet that he doesn't get past Allan Green.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nameless
Green will knock him out.
Bute I'm talking about obviously, Froch beats them both.
If you look at boxing history, put a big punching tough fighter in with a great boxer and the great boxer usually wins. However put a big punching tough fighter in with a great boxer with durability problems, the puncher usually knocks him out or at least imposes his will on him enough to win the fight.
Bute has durability issues...........
Bute, overwhelming decision.
Bute never floored Andrade that was Yusaf Mack.Quote:
Originally Posted by NamelessThat's the thing, he doesn't really. He went 12 rounds easily with every boxers and ran out once against Andrade in the last 10 seconds and it's because he got too cocky and went trading punch for punch with the best jaw in the business. Green-Bute? Bet ya 100 bucks Bute wins convincingly or by a knock out, idem for Froch if ever we have the chance to see it, do not forget Bute's faster and way more powerful than Green, he floored Andrade, that's not a small achievement when we know the guy and that he did resist Kessler's slaughter for 12 rounds, do not forget neither that Bute won every rounds on almost every cards except for one against him too so except for the 10 last seconds, he did against Andrade as good as Kessler except that he did knock him down on top of it.Quote:
Originally Posted by BilboIf this fight happens I'm willing to sig bet that he doesn't get past Allan Green.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nameless
Green will knock him out.
Bute I'm talking about obviously, Froch beats them both.
If you look at boxing history, put a big punching tough fighter in with a great boxer and the great boxer usually wins. However put a big punching tough fighter in with a great boxer with durability problems, the puncher usually knocks him out or at least imposes his will on him enough to win the fight.
Bute has durability issues...........
Bute knocked down Andrade, but it was debatable as to whether or not it was a legitimate KD.Quote:
Originally Posted by BilboBute never floored Andrade that was Yusaf Mack.Quote:
Originally Posted by NamelessThat's the thing, he doesn't really. He went 12 rounds easily with every boxers and ran out once against Andrade in the last 10 seconds and it's because he got too cocky and went trading punch for punch with the best jaw in the business. Green-Bute? Bet ya 100 bucks Bute wins convincingly or by a knock out, idem for Froch if ever we have the chance to see it, do not forget Bute's faster and way more powerful than Green, he floored Andrade, that's not a small achievement when we know the guy and that he did resist Kessler's slaughter for 12 rounds, do not forget neither that Bute won every rounds on almost every cards except for one against him too so except for the 10 last seconds, he did against Andrade as good as Kessler except that he did knock him down on top of it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo