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I think the game plans for each fighter will prove to be very important on saturday night- I for one was amazed by the difference in Hatton's style against Paulie Malignaggi, which prompted me to look at the difference each trainer had made to fighters that had come under there tutorlidge.
For me Mayweather Snr is the better trainer, and I think it shows in the difference he's made to fighters he's had under him- at all different stages in their respective careers- opinions?
Floyd Mayweather Sr.'s influence in Hattons fightin style is defenetely greater than Roach's on Pac for this fight.
And that's why Pac is 2-time WBAA fighter of the year and Roach is a 3-time WBAA coach of the year? :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by Manuel "Chubby" Medina
I think no boxing duo can top them right now.
Personally, I think quite the opposite, Roach is unpaired when it comes to games plan and he did quite wonders with everybody that got under his guidance, plus his teacher, the legendary Eddie Futch is probably among the top 3 of all times. Mayweather is a very good teacher though but he never shaped as many world champions as Roach and he's often mostly talk, when he says for example "PAcquiao has no head movement" and such, it's obvious that it ain't the case, just a look at Pacquiao against JMM or DLH and you can see that he looks like a booble head. Also, not only does he had a better teacher, more world's champion under his belt but Roach has been inducted 3 times if my memory as trainer of the year, which is remarquable considering he's not a trainer for that long. Another thing: in the corner, I prefer Roach's style of giving advices and using his minute wisely instead of the Mayweather strange advices and speech like: "yeahhhhh mannnnnnn commmme onnnn mannnn, ya knoowww yaaa mann, give it more try mannn, work more, ya know what I'm sayiinnn" kind of riddles:) Don't get me wrong, Mayweather is a very good teacher but Roach has a lot more under his belt to back the talk.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bethnal Green
I said for this fight not for their whole time together...:rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by QuinitoAnd that's why Pac is 2-time WBAA fighter of the year and Roach is a 3-time WBAA coach of the year? :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by Manuel "Chubby" Medina
I think no boxing duo can top them right now.
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Mayweather is a very good teacher though but he never shaped as many world champions as Roach and he's often mostly talk
Well, he CREATED a boxer who is yet to show a clear weakness/flaw: Floyd Mayweather Jr. So he's not THAT bad really.
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when he says for example "PAcquiao has no head movement" and such, it's obvious that it ain't the case, just a look at Pacquiao against JMM or DLH and you can see that he looks like a booble head
Against JMM maybe, let's take out ODLH from the picture since he didn't test Pac AT ALL. Pac moves OK when it comes to defense. I think Mayweather did a better job teaching Floyd how to move his head and end up clean in his fights with not even a scratch compared to what Pac has learned that makes him finish fights with bruises, cuts, blood, swollen eyes, etc. We can't forget that a fighter will still implement what he learned or not. I'll say most has to do with the boxer and a smaller percentage to the trainers, nutritionists, etc.
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I prefer Roach's style of giving advices and using his minute wisely instead of the Mayweather strange advices and speech like: "yeahhhhh mannnnnnn commmme onnnn mannnn, ya knoowww yaaa mann, give it more try mannn, work more, ya know what I'm sayiinnn" kind of riddles
I agree. I rather have someone telling me what to do even if I am winning. I have seen trainers tell their guy "Yeah! You're totally winning! Alright! See?! I told you! You will be champ!..." no no no, I want to hear my trainer telling me what I should keep doing and all.
I think Floyd Mayweather Snr is more style based, while Roach is more fighter based, Roach can teach any type of fighter, where I think the guys that would really benefit from Floyd Mayweather Snr coaching are guys like Toney, Berto, Gamboa, Mayweather JR, Guzman, etc. Guys who use the shoulder roll and are defensive minded.
I am surprised that Mayweather Snr didn't have Hatton carrying his hands higher, I still felt Hatton was getting hit by punches he didn't need to, Tyson could have his hands up and still come in quickly.
To be fair Oscay never got a chance to get off, Pacquiao was too quick to get in and out, I am not sure even prime Oscar would have been fast enough for Pacquiao, I mean he's always tried to box guys faster than him to his own peril.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chino
As I have posted on another thread. Why abandon what has got you to where you are. Hatton's head movement,slickness and what have you will be lost in about five rounds and he will revert back to what Hatton is a brawler. Only problem after that is he will be much more tired from doing all of this extra head movement. Like I have stated once before as they did with Joe Frazier " well now we are gonna come back with Joe's right hand". Why do this when you were tremendous left hooker. It is just pointless at this stage of Hatton's career and it will get him hurt.
With all great Fighters the Head doesnt move, its everything else that moves. If the Head moves independantly you are of Balance Fact ;D
Hatton didn't change as a fighter against Malignaggi.... He just started using his jab a bit more and was actually timid to start that fight. It's only after Hatton realized Malignaggi couldn't hurt him that he started walking right through Malignaggi.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bethnal Green
Most any trainer Hatton would have sought out would have done exactly the same thing and what many pressure fighter need to do and that's use the jab more.
Mayweater Sr. has a great knowledge of the game. The big problem for Mayweather Sr. is he is to self-indulgent. Every thing is I, I and I.... It a distraction to his own fighter and a mistake on Hatton's part. There are plently of trainers around that understand the game as well as Mayweather Sr. that can help Hatton further develop his skills without having to put up with that ego crap.
The mark of a good teacher/trainer is one that can recognize a fighters strenghts and talents and develop the fighter to utilize what he does best. Rather that trying make a fighter fit a particular mold.
Game plans are for guys that like to dance in the ring. These two are nothing like that. They both have their particular way and aren't the type that adjust to another style other than their own rythm and timing. If Pacquiao gets hurt we might see him more on his toes more backing up. I don't think we'll see Hatton do that if he get hurt. Pacquiao and Hatton are both sluggers and this fight might start out on the timid side but once they get warmed up, it will turn iinto a slug fest. Game plans won't mean a anything then. It will be all about who's first!
As for who is the better trainer? Roach has it big time.... As for who has more knowledge of the game... flip a coin!.
Roach has lost the fooking plot IMO. He's been spouting so much off the wall shit that I think they must have spiked his meds or something. The guy is a serious raver. :rolleyes:
Since the DLH fight he has talked incessantly and his head has been expanding alarmingly. After Manny has been stopped, Mayweather snr should walk up to Roach and stab him in the head with a pin. I'm sure the head will pop and a lot of built up shit will be released in a yucky pile on the ring canvas. The good thing is that Roach might have learned a lesson and his head might just shrink back to regular size. :D
Well, if you look the fact straight it didn't happen like that at all: Mayweather started to bullshit when DLH picked Roach over him, with his famous poem with the line "Now that DLH picked Roach, he went from a limo to a coach", Roach didn't say nothing, he did his job. After THAT, DLH blamed Roach saying he wasn't a good coach, that his gameplan was wrong and he reverted to Nacho for his fight against Pacman. Being insulted, Roach normally fired back saying DLH couldn't put the trigger and would be stop around the 10th... that's exactly what happened. Meanwhile, Mayweather SR CALLED HIM big time the "joke coach Roach" and that he, Mayweather, was the best trainer in the business. Having proved nothing compared to Roach, Roach fired back a bit (which I would have done as well) But in the end, it's not Roach's ego which is on the line, it's Mayweather who did act like an angry six years old child bursting his anger all over the floor and if you ask me, he's the one who should deflate his ego, after all he's the self proclaimed "best trainer of all time":rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by miles
I agree mostly with everything but you cannot compare PAcquiao to Floyd Jr, they have both different styles, Floyd is overall more skilled but he didn't have the opposition Pacman had till now AND to measure the skills that Roach gives to his boxers and the skills Mayweather Sr gives, you have to measure it with let's say their top 10 boxers respectively, not only one, especially as Mayweather has been trained mostly by his uncles in his most significants matches.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chino
I would say both ego's are on the line actually. I'm only going back as far as the time that this fight was signed, but it's my perception that Roach has been the one going beyond the call of duty moreso than Mayweather. Mayweather has actually come across as fairly likeable in a weird kind of way, he's quite funny. Roach says his thing and I don't detect much humour. So I guess he must be serious. :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by NamelessWell, if you look the fact straight it didn't happen like that at all: Mayweather started to bullshit when DLH picked Roach over him, with his famous poem with the line "Now that DLH picked Roach, he went from a limo to a coach", Roach didn't say nothing, he did his job. After THAT, DLH blamed Roach saying he wasn't a good coach, that his gameplan was wrong and he reverted to Nacho for his fight against Pacman. Being insulted, Roach normally fired back saying DLH couldn't put the trigger and would be stop around the 10th... that's exactly what happened. Meanwhile, Mayweather SR CALLED HIM big time the "joke coach Roach" and that he, Mayweather, was the best trainer in the business. Having proved nothing compared to Roach, Roach fired back a bit (which I would have done as well) But in the end, it's not Roach's ego which is on the line, it's Mayweather who did act like an angry six years old child bursting his anger all over the floor and if you ask me, he's the one who should deflate his ego, after all he's the self proclaimed "best trainer of all time":rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by miles
Roach needs bringing down IMO, and this weekend is as good a time as any. Roach is overrated. He let Toney fight with boobies, allowed Tyson not to train properly, thought Hopkins was good enough to beat Calzaghe, and now sees Khan as a serious boxer. Roach has a good fighter in Manny, but I leave it at that. And hopefully that comes to an end this weekend! :D
Pac looked fast against him because Oscar simply didn't do anything. He didn't even look like he was trying at all: no jab, no straights, no hooks, no uppercuts, no legs, no nothing. When he lost vs Mosley and Hopkins, different story. Oscar was TRYING offering all his arsenal. Didn't look that bad loosing. Even with his loss against Hopkins I still think he looked ok offering all he had until he got knocked down. Too bad for him.Quote:
To be fair Oscay never got a chance to get off, Pacquiao was too quick to get in and out
Good points. I think Pac has faced better opposition. But when it comes to overall skills, Mayweather hands down. Like I have said before, he is yet to show any clear weakness/flaw. Maybe that weakness/flaw is called Pac ;) . Wouldn't that make it a good line to promote their fight if they ever face each other?:DQuote:
Floyd is overall more skilled but he didn't have the opposition Pacman had till now AND to measure the skills that Roach gives to his boxers and the skills Mayweather Sr gives, you have to measure it with let's say their top 10 boxers respectively, not only one, especially as Mayweather has been trained mostly by his uncles in his most significants matches
Well I think Mayweather would fukk roach up over 12 rounds. Unless he has one of his coughing fits then Roach will dominate...
I think Manny would of been a great fighter whoever he chose as his trainer.. I don't think roach is a better trainer in terms of teaching actual boxing, but as a emotional figure Roach has done so much for pac man and I think you have to respect that.
Head movement and foot movement ? WTF? It's actually bollocks you cant punch whilst moving your feet you can pivot and move into punches but you feet don't move!
I hear alot of trainers say move your feet move your head but it effectivly means nothing , it's all part of one smooth movement where the feet go the legs go and where the legs go the torso goes and if your feet are moving ' then you don't get purchase and that;s why you spend hours and hours in the gym refining movment , it's cliched nonsense to suggest thet you move anything indepentdently .
Great fighters can change levels but there's no magic formula and no trainer than can teach a a fighters thats been fighting 20 years how to suddenly change technique you can plan a certain strategy and work the pands do new excercise but technique and bad habbits stay .
Another thing , hands up and chin down ? Name a great fighter that fought effectively like that .
It's the biggest cliche in boxing certain fighters do and then fade later on in fights because it's the quickest way to fatigue a fighter across the shoulders !
did duran or Leonard fight like that ? they stayed at distance and trusted their natural instincts ,paitence ,eyesight,poise,touch !
some of you posting on here make me fooking laugh .