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Moving from 122. Featherweight Champ Marco Antonio Barrera might be too good and too big for Pac
Erik Morales was too good and big for Pac in the 1st fight**
David Diaz might be too big for Pac
Oscar Dela Hoya is TOO BIG for Pac
Ricky Hatton might be too big for Pac
**
Is Miguel Cotto too big for Manny Pacquiao?
Quote:
Originally Posted by miron_lang
First of all, I do not see this fight happening as both are franchise fighters of Bob Arum.
Hypothetically, at 147 Cotto will be too big and powerful. At 140 a more than fair chance for Pacquiao to win via stoppage.
The differnce between de la Hoya and Cotto. Cotto is still peaking as a fighter. Enough said.;)
You know, I just don't know anymore!
I seriously think Cotto destroys Pac at 147
It would need to happen at if not at 147 at least at a catchweight of say 143 to be fair.
140 maybe Cotto can make that weight, 147 is far too much size to give up, 143, its give and take on both sides.
Hell of a fight if it happens.
Right now I am love with Manny Pacquaio and would pick him over any fighter who ever lived apart from Carl Froch ;D
Wlad is too big for Pac. Probably still lose though. Kidding of course. I'd love to see Cotto and Pac fight. Cotto won't come in weight drained like Oscarita and he sure won't stand there in front andlet Pac tee off on him like poor Ricky did. Doubt this fight happens though. Now Paul Williams is too big for Pac;D
Arum already said he would want Cotto to come down in weight to fight Pacquiao which of course would benefit Manny.
At 147 Miguel Cotto is too big and too strong for Manny...Manny is quick but Cotto in a solid boxer/puncher and he hits harder than Hatton does AND Miguel can box a bit better too.
I think Manny is going to fight the PBF-JMM winner, it should already be signed
Ths would be a stupid fight for Pac with a PBF superfight looming on the horizon. Too much risk for too little reward. Have the PBF fight, then consider things like this. Plus the sport needs the PBF fight, and it needs it with Pac going in on a high. Arum is just talking, trying to let Floyd know he has options, he's a promoter it's what he does.
I think that Pacquiao doesn't have to fight until after the PBF-JMM fight which he'll obviously take the winner.
i dont think this fight will happen as it would mean arum loses one of his big money makers, too much risk involved either way,
also with a mayweather fight possibly on the horizon why fight cotto
I remember Bob Arum saying he would'nt let Pac fight Cotto i think it was after Diaz fight then Cotto loses to the Concrete Kid and Pac has a few good wins now the fight is possible.I think a fight vs either Cotto,Mosley or Mayweather will be very hard for Pac alot harder than De La Hoya or Hatton.
No way, but is Pacquiao too fast for Cotto, yes. It doesn't matter how big Cotto is if he doesn't have the footspeed to catch Pacman. Pacquiao still has more than enough power to hurt Cotto. I can't believe people still haven't learned that yet on here :/.
I agree with Taeth.
When you consider Cotto doesn't have the greatest chin, Pac has the power and most importantly the speed to give him nightmares.
A year ago I would have thought it was ridiculous, but now I would make Pac the favourite. Amazing. :-\
I'd probably favor Pacquiao too, I have visions of a right hook bouncing off Cotto's temple
And his footspeed would pose some problems too.
Its still a dangerous fight for both guys. As good as it is I'm not dying to see it as I like both guys.
Yes and no. If both guys stood centre ring for a test and then traded shots like Russian roulette, Pac would fall first, but is Pac fast enough (and clever enough) to avoid the really big flush shots for 12, he just might. Cotto defo has the power to fold him IMO, and he also has a better defence and chin than Hatton at 147, after all I don't think Pac hits as hard as Mosely. If they make Cotto shed the weight though down to 143 or less I'd have Pac favourite personally.
I think Cotto would be too much for Pac. He has the most underrated jab in boxing, and he would use this to control the fight and eventually stop Pacman. I'm not sure if Cotto will ever be the same after getting beat by plaster boy though, so who knows. We'll know more about Cotto after the Clottey fight.
Size means nothing to Pacquaio anymore. He's not human! ;D
Miguel is obviously the bigger man at 147, but not that big imo.
hmm .. doesnt Cotto come to the ring at 160 ?!?
Thats a 12pound weight advantage :o:o:o
Manny may be able to dart in and out for a few rounds
peppering Cotto with right jabs and lead lefts but what happens
if Cotto times him just once with a clean hook to the body or chin ...
:confused:
I think Manny would be shaken up and Cotto would jump on him.
Remember Mannys success in moving up weight
is hit and not getting hit back and Iam sure Cotto would tag him.
Although would love to see the fight at say 143 or so ...
:thumb:
I personally think he is.
I think his size and power would be too much for Pacquiao to handle.
I hate counting Pacquiao out though. :) he may be able to trouble Cotto with his handspeed and improved boxing ability.
What happens when Pacquiao landed 20 punches for every one that Cotto does?Quote:
Originally Posted by Chutebox
Size isn't that big of a factor, sure Cotto might be 15 pounds heavier than Pacman but he needs to be able to impose that size and Pacman wouldn't be there for him to do so. Mayweather was likely 15 pounds lighter than Oscar in their fight and he wasn't destroyed by every punch.
Cotto is a hard puncher, but it still took him 11 rounds to stop Judah who is way easier to hit than Pacman(can't believe the roll reversal here), and he didn't keep Cotto honest by throwing punches of his own. Cotto doesn't hit harder than Oscar, and as long as he wasn't abusing Pacquiao the way he did to Quintana and Judah I don't think he would be able to stop Pacquiao without landing a lot of leather, I mean Marquez and Morales landed so much on Pacquiao that his durability is unquestionable, people need to stop thinking about hte 113 pound teenager who got stopped when he was badly weight drained.
Cotto is a lot bigger, but like if he fought Mayweather maybe even more so because Manny moves more, you can't impose your size on empty space which is all he would be able to catch. I actually think he has a very similar offensive mind as Marquez but he goes to the body more, I just don't think he has that footspeed Marquez had to get in after Pacquiao would make a mistake.
20-1 is not realistic even in the Manny v Ricky domination, the
landing punch stats was no where near 20-1 ratio. You said when
i said if, theres the difference. So by your expectations the
end of the fight landing punch stats would be :
Cotto total punches landed :
100
Pac total punches landed :
2000
or if it was a short night :
10 Cotto
200 Pac
Even then it is not realistic.
Hatton landed a total of 18 punches
Manny landed a total of 73 punches
Thats roughly a 4-1 ratio in favour of Manny Pacman.
20-1 ratio for a welterweight fight between Cotto and the Pacmonster
is unrealistic but thats my opinion.
The size issue is still a fact and whether it would be an issue or not
is just an opinion. 12/15 pounds is still 12/15 pounds and for each
punch Cotto lands it would be no doubt the heaviest punch
Manny would have ever felt in a professional prize fight.
Maywheather is a completely different boxer than Manny, style wise.
Hes defense first, offense second and his whole game especially
at welterweight/above is to win and to win safe, see Baldomir fight, Oscar etc
I agree Marquez and Morales did land alot on the Pacman and his
durability at 130 & below shouldnt be questioned but who has landed
even half that amount at 135/above ?
He barely has been caught flush by either Diaz at 35, Oscar at 47
and Hatton at 40.
Would Manny be able to deal with that if it were to happen?
I don't think about when Manny was a 112pound kid who was starving
himself to make weight affecting his overall resistance,
that doesnt mean anything in regards to the higher weights he has fought at.
Another thing is Miguels heavy & accurate jab.If he could
time it , Manny would not be landing at will.
I am not being literal when I say Pacquiao lands 20 to 1 on Cotto, but in terms of meaningful punches it could 5 to 1, and Pacquiao might not have the most power that Cotto has ever faced(I think Mosley hit harder), but he will land the cleanest punches with the most power Cotto has ever faced. Also he is the only guy that has ever really used movement against Cotto with blazing speed. Most of what Hatton landed were glancing blows, and Hatton has way better footspeed than Cotto.
That footspeed differential would only increase because Cotto is so much heavier. Cotto does have a great jab and he has excellent timing and adaptive skills, but so does Pacquiao, I would have assumed by now people would understand that size isn't as big of a factor as some wouild have you believe. Styles make fights moreso than size in 90% of the situations. If Pacquiao wants to go shot for shot with Cotto I would concur with Cotto being too big, but we all know Pacquiao would fight him the same way he did De La Hoya, he would stay out of Cotto's range, come in quickly with the cross then be out before Cotto can react. Cotto might catch him briefly on the ropes a few times, but one or two punches even from the hard punching Cotto aren't enough to stop Pacman.
You also talk about the comparison of PBF and Pacman, but statistically Oscar landed way more on Mayweather htan he did on Pacquiao. Its different fighting a guy who can hurt you, and while PBF stays on the ropes and fights relatively flat footed, Manny is always moving, because he doesn't have the same technical defensive skills lately he has been making up for it with constant movement, great head movement, and staying off the ropes.
Manny wasn't caught by a whole bunch of clean punches, but he was hit enough for me to know that Cotto isn't going to one punch him. Oscar hit him a few times cleanly and Manny handled it fine. Same with when Hatton hit him.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taeth
Hey, you did say it :) 20-1 and now down to 5-1 ... at least it is getting closer ;)
I agree Mosley hits harder for sure especially with that outing
with Margarito. Thats another guy I would not favour Manny against.
You said "he will land the cleanest punches with the most power
Cotto has ever faced".
"Also he is the only guy that has ever really used movement against Cotto with blazing speed".
Again you say this like it has already happened, it is no guarantee.
I agree Hatton did land a few glancing blows so we do not know
if Manny can take some clean powerful shots from a true welterweight not a drained, IV shotted up welter.
One can look at it as Hatton has better footspeed than Cotto but that would be too simple. Hatton obviously has quicker footwork and closes the cap to get inside faster than Cotto but does that mean it is better when you are fighting Manny Pac?
Jumping/leaping in with his fast feet was Hattons downfall as well
as chin up & hands down approach.
I do not think Cotto would approach Manny this way and his style
is more boxer than brawler & does use a high guard.
Again I do agree Hatton has faster footwork but in this case
he used it the wrong way and also Cottos slower, measured footwork timed with a consistantly thrown jab should work better than Hattons fast, closing the gap approach.
Yes that would be the most effective approach in using the Oscar strategy but as I said , that was against an older past his prime, weight drained,Iv shotted up welter not an in prime , young welter such as Cotto.
As you say styles makes fights and to compare the old, drained
Oscar to a prime, young Cotto is totally different.
Above is also a reply to my comparison to the Manny v Oscar and
Floyd v Oscar fight. Different Oscar due to having not made 147 in
years and also comming in fight night lower than the man who
fought at 35 just before.
You said above "Cotto does have a great jab and he has excellent timing and adaptive skills".
You also said " Manny wasn't caught by a whole bunch of clean punches, but he was hit enough for me to know that Cotto isn't going to one punch him. Oscar hit him a few times cleanly and Manny handled it fine. Same with when Hatton hit him."
Would we agree that it is the punch you do not see that hurts you?
Also would we agree that Cotto has much better timing than
Hatton and Oscar has displayed in their last 3 fights?
This is where I think there is a chance Cotto could time Pacman
with some of his jabs and ofset him and possible time him with
a hook to the body or head several times into the fight and
would eventually rock Manny pretty bad but thats just my opinion.
the way things r going at the min id say manny could beat vitali klitschko, then 5 mins later smash wlad to bits ;D
At 147 Miguel might be a bit too big. But that's been said about De La Hoya and Hatton. At a catchweight, I think the fight will be fought on even ground.
I think HITMANHATTON said something along the lines of this as well. NO WAY will Arum set up a fight with Cotto and Pac. The money maker is Pacquiao vs Mayweather and they will not risk that with a possible loss against Cotto.Quote:
Originally Posted by Youngblood
If Cotto/Mosley vs Pacquiao gets made before a fight against Mayweather, I will truly be surprised. But at the same time, I could see Arum doing it just to stick it to Floyd.
I honestly would go for Pac to beat Cotto. Fair enough Cotto would have the size and he is a good boxer with good speed but Pac is a better boxer with better speed and a freakish ability to carry power if not improve it the higher in weight he goes!
I think that Pac would T-off on Cotto and stop him late like Margarito did only without taking the punishment Marg did first.
I really don't see this fight happening though unless Marquez beats Mayweather but I don't see that!
Cotto gets brutally KOED by Pacquiao like Hatton was or worst.
Ive seen Cotto hurt way too many times to think Pacquiao cant hurt him.
Hello, this fights makes sense for Arum since he promotes both guys. Arum does not have to share promotional money with another promoter. Plus, more money will be made when the winner gets to face Mayweather. This fight makes a lot of sense for Arum as a promoter. Plus, I think deep down inside Arum wants to stick it to Mayweather, so he will leave him out of the next Pac Man fight.Quote:
Originally Posted by hitmanhatton
Cotto is better at cutting off the ring than Hatton. Cotto doesn't just rush his opponents-he is much more calculating. Combine that with being the stronger guy, with a good chin, and boxing ability, I put my money on Cotto. But right now, this fight is a dream, since Cotto has a tough fight against Clottey. Knowing Cotto, he will not look past Clottey.
he took bricks to the face for 11 rounds i think his chin is more than just decentQuote:
Originally Posted by Manuel "Chubby" Medina
Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMoraleshe took bricks to the face for 11 rounds i think his chin is more than just decentQuote:
Originally Posted by Manuel "Chubby" Medina
Cotto would be the most dangerous fighter Manny will face. I'm giving them 50-50 chance. Actually, more for Cotto 55-45.
Hope pac vs mayweather happens. Cotto is too risky and too little reward for Pac.
too little reward? the man is ranked #2 at welter and has a huge fanbase, sells out MSG every time he fights there, so yea dunno what you're talkin about, a high risk little reward fight would be something against, Collazo, Clottey, Quintana, etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by bruceleeQuote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMoraleshe took bricks to the face for 11 rounds i think his chin is more than just decentQuote:
Originally Posted by Manuel "Chubby" Medina
Cotto would be the most dangerous fighter Manny will face. I'm giving them 50-50 chance. Actually, more for Cotto 55-45.
Hope pac vs mayweather happens. Cotto is too risky and too little reward for Pac.
I'll make my comment if this fight get signed... Cotto has a bigger problem to face... I think, Clottey is BIG for Cotto... :)
.
That hasn't been proven and probably never will...Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMoraleshe took bricks to the face for 11 rounds i think his chin is more than just decentQuote:
Originally Posted by Manuel "Chubby" Medina
Other than Margarito like Quintana,Torres and Judah etc. have hurt him.
Pacquiao hits harder then them and bricks.:D
Cotto dominated Quintana, Torres wobbled him the worse of the 3 and went on to prove he's got REAL power at 140, and Judah hurt him 2 times then got his ass handed to him, the hardest puncher that Cotto has fought was Mosley and he took his shots just fine, Pacquiao doesn't punch anywhere as hard as MosleyQuote:
Originally Posted by Manuel "Chubby" MedinaThat hasn't been proven and probably never will...Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMoraleshe took bricks to the face for 11 rounds i think his chin is more than just decentQuote:
Originally Posted by Manuel "Chubby" Medina
Other than Margarito like Quintana,Torres and Judah etc. have hurt him.
Pacquiao hits harder then them and bricks.:D
Mosley must hit pretty dam hard then.:rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMoralesCotto dominated Quintana, Torres wobbled him the worse of the 3 and went on to prove he's got REAL power at 140, and Judah hurt him 2 times then got his ass handed to him, the hardest puncher that Cotto has fought was Mosley and he took his shots just fine, Pacquiao doesn't punch anywhere as hard as MosleyQuote:
Originally Posted by Manuel "Chubby" MedinaThat hasn't been proven and probably never will...Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMorales
Other than Margarito like Quintana,Torres and Judah etc. have hurt him.
Pacquiao hits harder then them and bricks.:D
Pacquiao hits like a tons of bricks with that left of his...and Cotto has problems with other southpaws as we saw with Judah.
yea as we saw in the final round and the 2 before it ;DQuote:
Originally Posted by Manuel "Chubby" MedinaMosley must hit pretty dam hard then.:rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMoralesCotto dominated Quintana, Torres wobbled him the worse of the 3 and went on to prove he's got REAL power at 140, and Judah hurt him 2 times then got his ass handed to him, the hardest puncher that Cotto has fought was Mosley and he took his shots just fine, Pacquiao doesn't punch anywhere as hard as MosleyQuote:
Originally Posted by Manuel "Chubby" Medina
Pacquiao hits like a tons of bricks with that left of his...and Cotto has problems with other southpaws as we saw with Judah.
My point is if Pacquiao gets that left hook as Judah and Margarito did Cotto is going night night.Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMoralesyea as we saw in the final round and the 2 before it ;DQuote:
Originally Posted by Manuel "Chubby" MedinaMosley must hit pretty dam hard then.:rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMorales
Pacquiao hits like a tons of bricks with that left of his...and Cotto has problems with other southpaws as we saw with Judah.
(the plaster if it was there during the fight wasnt the reason why Margarito was landing so many punches)
Margarito wasn't landing a whole bunch of punches though. He was landing to the body well but Pacquiao isn't really a body puncher otherwise he wasn't really landing much at all as Cotto's defense was excellent.
It's an interesting fight if it happens, with how accurate Pacquiao is I do think he would rock Cotto but no doubt about it he is 10 times more dangerous then either Hatton or De La Hoya because he can fight more then one way.
I don't remember Mosley stopping Oscar. Mosley does hit hard, but I see Pacquiao because of the punches he throws hurting Cotto worse than Mosley ever would.Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMoralesCotto dominated Quintana, Torres wobbled him the worse of the 3 and went on to prove he's got REAL power at 140, and Judah hurt him 2 times then got his ass handed to him, the hardest puncher that Cotto has fought was Mosley and he took his shots just fine, Pacquiao doesn't punch anywhere as hard as MosleyQuote:
Originally Posted by Manuel "Chubby" MedinaThat hasn't been proven and probably never will...Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMorales
Other than Margarito like Quintana,Torres and Judah etc. have hurt him.
Pacquiao hits harder then them and bricks.:D