I know Pac has only had one fight at this weight but if these two had fought at their primes who would win ?
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I know Pac has only had one fight at this weight but if these two had fought at their primes who would win ?
Tszyu would KO him. Tszyu loved fighting southpaws and his timing always won over the speed of his opponents like Mitchell and Judah found out.
Tszyu KO in round 5
Tszyu always did well with aggressive, fast power-punchers. So basically Pac. I think Pac would do better than Judah, but the fact is at some point Tszyu's right hand would connect & could be good night. Apart from Hatton having the fight of his life the only other guys who've been at light-welter in recent years who I could see beating Tszyu are Mayweather and Cotto.
Tszyu loved southpaws, he disected them like no other fighter. Speed didnt seem to bother him either so id have to say that manny would be eating right hands until he dropped.Tszyu was a very smart fighter and if there was a weakness he would find it and i think hed find a few in pac.
Oscar didn't do too badly against southpaws either, its hard to say, I think Tszyu is very much a large JMM with a bigger punch p4p, but a lot less speed, if Pacquiao get in and out too quickly then Kostya would be in trouble, but if Tszyu started timing him then I think Pacquiao is screwed.
I have this 60/40 in favor of Tszyu because its a rough matchup for Pacman.
Pac would win because of Freddie Roach.
Why?? Is Freddie gonna come in & hit Tszyu over the head with a hammer or somethin?Quote:
Originally Posted by Quinito
Haha! Very funny :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by JazMerkinWhy?? Is Freddie gonna come in & hit Tszyu over the head with a hammer or somethin?Quote:
Originally Posted by Quinito
I think at some point,Kostyas short shots on an oncoming Pac would force Manny to settle down and be in front of Tzsyu for a taxing spell.Tszyu solid of frame and footing and that straqht right would find its mark increasingly more so for win.
Are you kidding me? People always want to believe that some past fighter will always be the best and no one can overcome them. Pacquiao would destroy Tsysu! Im not even basing that on Pacs last two fights either, im basing it on his whole career. Pacs faced better opponets plain and simple. I mean how many people is it now that have knocked out judah? A bakers dozen? Pacquiao's blinding hand speed and movement would eat Tsysu alive, and after Pac beats Mayweather im sure most will agree with me!
This wouldnt even be a fight. Manny would kill him. Manny is just too much. So strong. So fast. I mean Tsysu was a good fighter, but he never faced anything close to the caliber of opponent as Pac. Pac wins hands down.
Here we go again. Pac is on fire at the moment. Mad respect to him. But some fans take it to far...thinking he will just beat anyone he faces. Styles make fights ladies and gents. Tszyu loved facing south paws. Pac's toughest fights came against Marquez...and as good as Marquez is...Tszyu had better timing and MUCH better power. Not to mention he was such an intelligent fighter. Now does this all mean that he would definitely beat Pac...of course not. After all Tszyu had some problems with agrressive fighters. BUT...no way Pac just "destroys" one of great fighters in the sport. I would lean towards Kotsya winning because of his devastating power, timing, and skills. But i think it would have been a great fight.
If Tzysu had such what they call "timing", then how come could'nt time Hatton like Pac did? :rolleyes:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Steelhammer
His balls hurt too much to concentrate;D
Good thread!
I think that style wise Tsysu would have a good hance of lannding his big right.
Tsysu was good on th back foot and I think there is a good chance it would land at some stage.
Saying that Ricky Hattons all out asault seemed to knock KT out of his rythem so who knows.
It would be a great fight if it had happened.;D
It would have been a great fight, Tszyu was exceptionally good against southpaws and his punches had a paralyzing effect,his demolitions of Ruelas and Gonzalez are perfect examples of how Tszyu would break you down over rounds and just keep pounding away with incredible accuracy. I think Manny may have fallen victim to Tszyu over time, the Tszyu from 1998-2001 was an awesome force and i have no doubt had Hatton fought a younger, more active and less injury prone Tszyu then he would have been outta there by the 5th or 6th round. I think Tszyu like Marquez is a bad match up for Manny Pacquiao.
your trainer can only take you so far, and if having Roach in your corner is a reason for winning a fight WTF happened when he trained...Quote:
Originally Posted by Quinito
De La Hoya for Mayweather
B-Hop for Calzaghe
Penalosa for Lopez
Vazquez for R. Marquez (first fight, seeing how i believe Vazquez changed trainers after that fight)
etc.
in a nutshell, Mickey Rourke is still making movies for a reason...
don't kid yourself Tszyu is a top 5 junior welter ATG, and IMO one of the best counter punchers ever, it would be a tough fight but i see him tagging Manny with the right all night, and yea Kostya was no spring chicken when he fought Hatton, and gettin his balls bashed didn't help much eitherQuote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Steelhammer
You are pin pointing Roach's bad moments which is not fair and erelevant to the discussion. Those guys that you mentioned are no Manny Pacquiao.Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMoralesyour trainer can only take you so far, and if having Roach in your corner is a reason for winning a fight WTF happened when he trained...Quote:
Originally Posted by Quinito
De La Hoya for Mayweather
B-Hop for Calzaghe
Penalosa for Lopez
Vazquez for R. Marquez (first fight, seeing how i believe Vazquez changed trainers after that fight)
etc.
in a nutshell, Mickey Rourke is still making movies for a reason...
don't kid yourself Tszyu is a top 5 junior welter ATG, and IMO one of the best counter punchers ever, it would be a tough fight but i see him tagging Manny with the right all night, and yea Kostya was no spring chicken when he fought Hatton, and gettin his balls bashed didn't help much eitherQuote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Steelhammer
Tyszu never fought someone like Pacquiao, who moves a lot, with blinding speed and undeniable power. Kostya wasn't a flashy quick counterpuncher. Pac would make him quit on his stool faster than Hatton did.
how is it not fair? if someones reason that Pacquiao will win is simply because Freddie Roach its pretty laughable to be honest, Roach is a good trainer, but he's not the only reason Manny wins, and i know none of those fighters are Manny Pacquiao, B-Hop IMO is a greater fighter than Pacquiao and i rank him higher than Manny on my ATG list, but saying that they aren't Manny is really irrelevant, cause they all had Roach in their corner and lost, so getting to my point, simply having him in your corner doesn't secure the winQuote:
Originally Posted by Dr. SteelhammerYou are pin pointing Roach's bad moments which is not fair and erelevant to the discussion. Those guys that you mentioned are no Manny Pacquiao.Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMoralesyour trainer can only take you so far, and if having Roach in your corner is a reason for winning a fight WTF happened when he trained...Quote:
Originally Posted by Quinito
De La Hoya for Mayweather
B-Hop for Calzaghe
Penalosa for Lopez
Vazquez for R. Marquez (first fight, seeing how i believe Vazquez changed trainers after that fight)
etc.
in a nutshell, Mickey Rourke is still making movies for a reason...
don't kid yourself Tszyu is a top 5 junior welter ATG, and IMO one of the best counter punchers ever, it would be a tough fight but i see him tagging Manny with the right all night, and yea Kostya was no spring chicken when he fought Hatton, and gettin his balls bashed didn't help much eitherQuote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Steelhammer
Tyszu never fought someone like Pacquiao, who moves a lot, with blinding speed and undeniable power. Kostya wasn't a flashy quick counterpuncher. Pac would make him quit on his stool faster than Hatton did.
Yeah coz it was the guys with the speed that beat kostya, the southpaws ay? Just check his record and tell me how many southpaws beat him, how many rounds they lasted and were any of them fast offensive fighters. Then come talk to me about this.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. SteelhammerYou are pin pointing Roach's bad moments which is not fair and erelevant to the discussion. Those guys that you mentioned are no Manny Pacquiao.Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMoralesyour trainer can only take you so far, and if having Roach in your corner is a reason for winning a fight WTF happened when he trained...Quote:
Originally Posted by Quinito
De La Hoya for Mayweather
B-Hop for Calzaghe
Penalosa for Lopez
Vazquez for R. Marquez (first fight, seeing how i believe Vazquez changed trainers after that fight)
etc.
in a nutshell, Mickey Rourke is still making movies for a reason...
don't kid yourself Tszyu is a top 5 junior welter ATG, and IMO one of the best counter punchers ever, it would be a tough fight but i see him tagging Manny with the right all night, and yea Kostya was no spring chicken when he fought Hatton, and gettin his balls bashed didn't help much eitherQuote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Steelhammer
Tyszu never fought someone like Pacquiao, who moves a lot, with blinding speed and undeniable power. Kostya wasn't a flashy quick counterpuncher. Pac would make him quit on his stool faster than Hatton did.
agree, and also Dr. Steelhammer, Tszyu would drop Pacquiao faster than Torrecampo and Singsurat did, now i know why Pacquiao didn't want the fight going into the 3rd :-XQuote:
Originally Posted by snakeyYeah coz it was the guys with the speed that beat kostya, the southpaws ay? Just check his record and tell me how many southpaws beat him, how many rounds they lasted and were any of them fast offensive fighters. Then come talk to me about this.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. SteelhammerYou are pin pointing Roach's bad moments which is not fair and erelevant to the discussion. Those guys that you mentioned are no Manny Pacquiao.Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMorales
Tyszu never fought someone like Pacquiao, who moves a lot, with blinding speed and undeniable power. Kostya wasn't a flashy quick counterpuncher. Pac would make him quit on his stool faster than Hatton did.
Prime Kostya knocks out Manny in the final minute of round two. :cool:
No, but in all seriousness, I think he was too good for Manny and would hurt him BAD. If he was getting rocked at 130, Kostya would be making his legs twitch involuntarily and on a regular basis. He wouldn't last. And that's no slur on Manny, it's just that Kostya was that good at his best. Kostya was a good technical fighter and wouldn't hand Manny his chin on a dish.
Someone in this thread likened Kostya to JMM. And he was, he was a very smart fighter. He had alot of tools to use, he didnt just have a dynamite right hand. He knew how to set you up, trap ya. He was a great pressure fighter that could cut off the ring very well. Id say he would time manny with the right hand all night.
Tszyu would stalk his opponents and strike at will with great accuracy, making the most of his opportunities. Manny would be in for a torrid time with Tszyu, he didn't handle Marquez all that well and i don't see him handling Tszyu at all. I see Tszyu winning by a late stoppage in rounds 9-10.Quote:
Originally Posted by snakey
Mate i honestly dont think manny makes it past round 4. Manny puts all his weight into his left hand, could you imagine if Tszyu timed him and connected with the right at that point in time. Lights out. I watched the hatton fight and said to my old man...could you imagine kostya vs pac back in the day. Just so many openings tszyu would love, dont get me wrong..awesome performance by manny but i think he would be tailor made for kostya.Quote:
Originally Posted by THE THIRD MANTszyu would stalk his opponents and strike at will with great accuracy, making the most of his opportunities. Manny would be in for a torrid time with Tszyu, he didn't handle Marquez all that well and i don't see him handling Tszyu at all. I see Tszyu winning by a late stoppage in rounds 9-10.Quote:
Originally Posted by snakey
Come ooooon people....Pac doesnt last past round four? Is there a carbon monoxide buildup in your room? Ive said it once and ill say it again, who has the more impressive wins? Whos faced better opponets? I want someone to give me a list of Tsysu's top three best wins and I know that it doesnt even come close to manny's wins. Pound for pound barrera was one of the best in the world and Pac knocks him out in the 11th! Thats just one of several. I said it on my last post that I think everyone wants to pick some fighter from the past over a fighter thats having lots of success and fame, everyone wants some old "Rocky" to beat the succesful guy today. I dont understand why no one wants to give Manny any respect for what he's accomplished lately. In Manny's past five fights or so i've heard every corner say the same thing, "he's just to fast", it would be no different against Kosta! Southpaw or orthadox i dont care, you cant compare Pacquiao's skills to Tsysu's other opponets, he's in a totally different league. I think more fights Manny has the more people will realize how great of a fighter he really is!
dude take your pills and calm down, i haven't read anything on here about someone not giving Pacquiao props on what he's accomplished, but sorry Manny isn't p4p #1 ever, that still goes to Robinson, IMO he doesn't even crack top 20 p4p, i have him in my top 30, ranked #23 i believe, and that's still saying something, you can't rag on the fact of Manny's resume, because styles make fights, and it's clear on Manny's record that a fighter by the name of Juan Manuel Marquez has given him fits both times they've faced each other, and MANY believe that it could easily be 2-0 in favor of JMM, Kostya Tszyu is like a bigger stronger Marquez, not as fast but IMO with better timing, always calm and never lost his head in the ring, just cause Manny has been on a roll doesn't mean he's unbeatable, cause everyone is, saying that Tszyu one of the greatest jr welter champions ever could KO Pacquiao in 4 isn't ludicrous, he's already been KTFO twice in the 3rd, by smaller less skilled opponants, yea it was in the beginning of his career but it still happened, and seeing how we're talking PRIME for PRIME, i'd pick Tszyu over Pacquiao, and to win by TKO by no later than the 6thQuote:
Originally Posted by levi#1BoxingFan
Manny Pac has not finished his career so unfair to judge. The KO over Hatton has confused me of his ability. Tszyu had the bomb of a right hand but if that did not land then he would be in trouble. At this moment in time you have to go with Kostya but if Manny Pac beats more greats then it is the Pac Man.
I think a prime Tszyu would take both Hatton and Pac apart. I actually think it takes him a little longer to stop Hatton though. Pac really has the perfect style for Kostya. He could pull the trigger on his right hand like no one else. Hatton and Oscar didnt have a right hand anywhere near as precise and powerful as Tszyu. Marquez was able to time him and find the target, but there wasnt quite enough power there to hurt Pac badly. Tszyu beats him imo by early stoppage. I think a lot of people forget that styles make fights and no fighter is invinsible reguardless of how many good performances he has.
the thing that annoys me is that if anyone says that someone can beat Pacquiao, some of his fans go crazy saying that that is an insult :-\, as if he's some kind of god, he has 3 losses for something, he can be outboxed as JMM showed, and he can be hurt as JMM and Larios showed, he's looked great in last few fights, and is definately on a roll, he deserves the #1 p4p spot right now, but he's still hardly unbeatable, like i've said time and time again, no one is
I think Kostya Tszyu beats Manny Pacquiao styles make fights, Kostya Tszyu had trouble with swarming fighters like Ricky Hatton, Vince Phillips. But he was good at timing fast boxers like Sharmba Mitchelll, Zab Judah.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hughesd
I've always said Kostya Tszyu had excellent timing, and his mid distance shots were a thing of beauty, Manny Pacquiao maybe a better fighter P4P but style's wise i think Kostya Tszyu stops Manny Pacquiao in the mid rounds.
Uhh Kostya Tszyu wasn't exactly at his peak, and he had trouble with swarming fighters. If you actually watch Kostya Tszyu fights, he beat some very good fast Southpaw fighters. And was excellent at timing fighters at a mid-distance range.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Steelhammer
Which Manny Pacquiao fights at and Ricky Hatton gave Kostya Tszyu no punching room. Just like Vince Phillip's did thats why Kostya Tszyu lost, because he isn't a great inside fighter and can't get the power into his shots at that range.
elteriib...whatever you are the one who needs to take a good look in the mirror man honestly? "Pac hasnt even gotten into my top 20, im gonna go watch star trek now guys". Do you think I care about your top 20, 30, or whatever number you plan on going to? Thats about as irrelevant as Hatton is right now! Im not some fan who just jumped on Pacquiao's ban wagon after his last two fights. I still didnt get your list of Tsysu's top three most notable wins?? Im guessing the reason you didnt give it is because it isnt impressive! Im not acting like Pacquiao is a boxing God, just that he's at the top of his game right now and he would throttle Kostya Tsysu!
If the Hatton-Pacquiao fight never happened... Hatton wins by a knockout! Hurray!
If the DeLaHoya- Pacquiao fight did not happen... DeLaHoya wins by stoppage! Pandemonium!
Kostya-Pacquiao? Kostya by a knockout... absolutely!;D
Reality holds no secrets to the learned.
you're entitle to your opinion, but like you said, who gives a fuck about some Pacquiao fanboy's opinion, many will tell you the same i said, Manny isn't a top 20 p4p ATG, much less a top 10, i don't jump on any fighters bandwagon, i'm a fan of fighters but don't rule out the fact that they can lose to another fighter, and unlike some Pacquiao or Filipino fans in general (NOT ALL) never see one of them losing, Tszyu pretty much dominated the division for basically from 1997 to 2005, wins over Hugo Pineda, Zab Judah (when he was undefeated), Sharmba Mitchell, Julio Cesar Chavez (equivalent to PAC's over DLH), Roger Mayweather, Rafael Ruelas, Jessie James Leija, Ben TackieQuote:
Originally Posted by levi#1BoxingFan
that list is very unimpressive......need i say more!
nope....with that you've done more than enough to prove that you're an idiot ;DQuote:
Originally Posted by levi#1BoxingFan
x2, agreed with everything you've said ElTerribleMoralesQuote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMoralesnope....with that you've done more than enough to prove that you're an idiot ;DQuote:
Originally Posted by levi#1BoxingFan
the thing is, in no way am i slamming Manny Pacquiao by saying that Tszyu would beat him, don't get what the dudes prob isQuote:
Originally Posted by Rocky Balboax2, agreed with everything you've said ElTerribleMoralesQuote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMoralesnope....with that you've done more than enough to prove that you're an idiot ;DQuote:
Originally Posted by levi#1BoxingFan
The biggest knock on PAC IMO his ability to take a punch from a natural junior welter or any bigger fighter. If he was as big as anybody he would face in the near future he would absolutely destroy them. To reiterate PAC is just damn small, luckily he heh as incredible POWER to WEIGHT ratio.