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The Mayweather double standard.
Mayweather-Pacquiao: The Double Standard
By Michael Herron:
The highly anticipated return of Floyd Mayweather, Jr. and Manny Pacquiao's dramatic knockout of Ricky Hatton has ignited the boxing world and sparked a great debate; fight fans are anxious to know which guy is the best, who is truly the top pound-for-pound fighter in the world? Pound-for-pound by definition was created to describe a fighter with great skill who can move up and down the scales, challenge fighters in multiple weight classes, and continue to perform and be just as successful as they would at their optimal weight. With this in mind, both fighters fit the description well, but in terms of acknowledging pound-for-pound greatness, there appears to be a double standard in favor of Manny Pacquiao.
Floyd Mayweather, Jr. has won titles in five weight classes, 130, 135, 140, 147, 154, yet none of his ring accomplishments are without criticism from the boxing media. During the Hatton-Pacquiao telecast for instance, Larry Merchant, in reference to Mayweather's return to boxing, went on a tirade accusing Floyd of cherrypicking opponents, pricing himself out of fights, and flat out ducking fighters.. Yet an obvious fact such as Pacquiao facing an opponent Mayweather has already defeated is never mentioned. It also seemed to fall under the radar that Mayweather had already defeated Pacquiao's previous opponent Oscar De La Hoya as well.
The irony is that Pacquiao's claim to being the undisputed best is largely based on these two fights. For the past few years, boxing writers, reporters, diehard fans, and media personalities have adopted an infamous view that Hatton and De La Hoya were merely cherry picked opponents, simply diversions while Mayweather avoided challenges from welterweights Miguel Cotto, Shane Mosley, and Antonio Margarito; yet these same two opponents are considered grand slam victories for Pacquiao; victories that prove beyond the shadow of a doubt that he is pound-for-pound the best fighter in the world. How can this be if they were previously declared "cherries?"
Though Pacquiao's supporters would argue that his wins over Marco Antonio Barrera, Erik Morales, and Juan Manuel Marquez catapulted him to this status it was not sealed until Mayweather officially retired in 2008 and Pacquiao went on to defeat De La Hoya later the same year. Pacquiao certainly deserves credit for his victories over such a famous trio of Mexican warriors but in terms of a young fighter establishing himself--climbing the ladder, who can argue that Mayweather did not likewise defeat great fighters in the lighter weights? Surely no one would argue that Genaro Hernandez, Diego Corrales, Jesus Chavez, Angel Manfredy, Jose Luis Castillo, were cream puffs.
To further illustrate the double standard enter the #2 pound-for-pound fighter in the world Juan Manuel Marquez. Team Mayweather announced that Floyd will face Marquez on his July 18th return to the sport. He did not choose any old random contender as a tune-up but a multi-division world champion and in many observers opinion, two time conqueror of Manny Pacquiao. (Pacquiao scored a draw and a win against Marquez). The same media proponents that declared Hatton and De La Hoya "cherries" are now blasting Mayweather for taking a fight against proven champion Marquez. They argue that Marquez is too small or that Floyd knows he can beat him etc...Yet if Manny Pacquiao were to accept a third fight against Marquez, he'd be hailed as a true champion, a true warrior, the real pound-for-pound king.
So what is truly going on here? Is it a weight issue? Freddie Roach declared that Pacquiao's optimal weight is 140 and that is where he will be at his best. Mayweather, being a small welterweight, appears to be at his best somewhere between 140 and 147. In addition, Marquez has been moving up in weight successfully and it is he who called out Mayweather at a catchweight below 147. Is 3-4 pounds really so great a difference that Mayweather has to be persecuted for accepting a fight against Marquez? Catchweights are nothing new in boxing, why is it suddenly an issue now? Assuming Mayweather defeats Marquez, will diehard fans and media raise this same 3-4 pound argument when it is Pacquiao's turn to face Mayweather?
What is clear is that an answer to who is the best pound-for-pound can not be given based on their performance against common opponents, or their careers at the lighter weights. Both guys have been dynamic and only a battle against each other can settle the matter. It can be noted however that there is a double standard at play when it comes to Mayweather and Pacquiao. The media bashes Mayweather's accomplishments but hail Pacquiao for achieving the same thing. Also, Freddie Roach has indicated that Pacquiao will not move up to 147 to face Mayweather however it was just fine to move up for De La Hoya. Mayweather is blasted for fighting Marquez but Pacquiao would be a hero if he did the same. What this all indicates is that it is ultimately not simply a case of Mayweather "handpicking" opponents but it is more likely his opponents who are careful about picking him.
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Re: The Mayweather double standard.
You should post the link with the article piye.
The writer is wrong about P4P. You don't have to actually fight outside your optimum division to be rated ;)
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Re: The Mayweather double standard.
P4P means you are the best boxer around regardless of size.
Manny has beaten more current linear champs than Floyd has, infact has Floyd beaten any?
Take light welter, Floyd fought Gatti then ran away from Tszyu, he ran up a weight to take longer to beat a fighter that Tszyu had smashed off the canvas.
There is no denying Pacquiao has fought some very dangerous fighters, even dangerous fighters who dont draw crowds, like Marquez, right after he beat Mab, when he could have taken a soft touch, whereas Floyd has avoided all his percieved threats, like Tszyu, Mosely, Cotto, Margarito and Williams.
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Re: The Mayweather double standard.
Poorly supported article!
The duck test: "If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a duck."
'Most' People are stupid and can see through the mask. Here's a writer that writes Marquez is a tune up fight and argues that Maweather Jr deserves the same accolades as Pacquiao for similar accomplishments?
This is where a little comprehension has to come into play! because it's a natural oxymoron: "It's not what they have done, it's how they did it!"
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Re: The Mayweather double standard.
Ha ha...when this cack was retired all people did was damn near suck his taint beggin the guy to come back, now he is and now it's back to this guy is overpaid, under fought, blah, blah. I've never seen boxers and fans so eager to see a fight involving what they claim to be one of the crappiest overratted fighters out there. I'm starting to think floyd himself writes most of these articles
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Re: The Mayweather double standard.
Taint n. - The area between your balls and arse. It taint your balls and it taint your arse. Otherwise known as the perineum.
I think there is an obvious double standard for Mayweather, but Pacquiao rightfully deserves more credit for his wins over DLH and hatton because they were more impressive.
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Re: The Mayweather double standard.
That article is a complete farce. Mayweather DUCKS, Pacman fights the BEST in his division, please and simple. Shame on Mayweather for picking on a completely undersized opponent as JMM. If TRUE boxing fans were allowed to chose Mayweathers opponent it would either be Cotto/Mosley or Williams.
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Re: The Mayweather double standard.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
sanchez786
That article is a complete farce. Mayweather DUCKS, Pacman fights the BEST in his division, please and simple. Shame on Mayweather for picking on a completely undersized opponent as JMM. If TRUE boxing fans were allowed to chose Mayweathers opponent it would either be Cotto/Mosley or Williams.
Well, you can't say Pac fights the best in the division. Be all the way fair. At 135, he cherrypicked David Diaz. David Diaz??? So did he duck Casamayor or Campbell? These were the true tests at 135 and both were screaming for Pac. At 147, he picked DLH. Well, that is a division with Williams, Margarito, Cotto, Mosley, PBF, etc. And lets not forget that DLH had not been able to make it to 147 in many years so he wasn't even a 147 pounder. So lets not say Pac fights the best of the division he is in when in fact he doesn't. And how is JMM too small but Pac isn't? People lets not forget that PBF has always been the smaller fighter since he left 135. He walks around at 148 Pac walks around at 143. Finally PBF is the bigger fighter and now its a crime. I am not big on PBF as a person but I know what I see in talent and people hold him to a higher standard because they can't stand how good he is with a mouth like that. Every fighter cherrypicks by the way. Its still a business.
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Re: The Mayweather double standard.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ross
P4P means you are the best boxer around regardless of size.
Manny has beaten more current linear champs than Floyd has, infact has Floyd beaten any?
Take light welter, Floyd fought Gatti then ran away from Tszyu, he ran up a weight to take longer to beat a fighter that Tszyu had smashed off the canvas.
There is no denying Pacquiao has fought some very dangerous fighters, even dangerous fighters who dont draw crowds, like Marquez, right after he beat Mab, when he could have taken a soft touch, whereas Floyd has avoided all his percieved threats, like Tszyu, Mosely, Cotto, Margarito and Williams.
Maybe you should check the chronological order of things. Tszyu lost weeks before Mayweather fought Gatti against Ricky Hatton, Tszyu was set to fight Hatton before Mayweather was set to fight Gatti. Mayweather always wanted to face Tszyu. Out of all the guys you mentioned only Mosley is a real threat to Mayweather because he is impossible to hurt, and he has the speed to keep MAyweather on the defensive. Cotto doesn't move quick enough, nor does he have good enough defense to stop Mayweather from pot shotting him. Margarito can't deal with movement, and Williams is terrible against a fast counter puncher.
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Re: The Mayweather double standard.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
blegit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
sanchez786
That article is a complete farce. Mayweather DUCKS, Pacman fights the BEST in his division, please and simple. Shame on Mayweather for picking on a completely undersized opponent as JMM. If TRUE boxing fans were allowed to chose Mayweathers opponent it would either be Cotto/Mosley or Williams.
Well, you can't say Pac fights the best in the division. Be all the way fair. At 135, he cherrypicked David Diaz. David Diaz??? So did he duck Casamayor or Campbell? These were the true tests at 135 and both were screaming for Pac. At 147, he picked DLH. Well, that is a division with Williams, Margarito, Cotto, Mosley, PBF, etc. And lets not forget that DLH had not been able to make it to 147 in many years so he wasn't even a 147 pounder. So lets not say Pac fights the best of the division he is in when in fact he doesn't. And how is JMM too small but Pac isn't? People lets not forget that PBF has always been the smaller fighter since he left 135. He walks around at 148 Pac walks around at 143. Finally PBF is the bigger fighter and now its a crime. I am not big on PBF as a person but I know what I see in talent and people hold him to a higher standard because they can't stand how good he is with a mouth like that. Every fighter cherrypicks by the way. Its still a business.
Pacman doesn't walk around at 143 if he is coming into the ring at 148. I guarantee he walks around at roughly the same weight as Mayweather does which is 160. The thing I don't get is how come size is never brought into the equation when Pacquiao fights MArquez, I mean he weighed 3 pounds more in their last fight, I can't see MAyweather having anymore of a weight advantage over Marquez. Also I don't think Marquez will have that much difficulty putting on a little bit of weight, JCC did it fine, Duran did it fine. I think he will retain 95% of his speed, and dramatically increase his strength and power.
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Re: The Mayweather double standard.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ross
P4P means you are the best boxer around regardless of size.
Manny has beaten more current linear champs than Floyd has, infact has Floyd beaten any?
Take light welter, Floyd fought Gatti then ran away from Tszyu, he ran up a weight to take longer to beat a fighter that Tszyu had smashed off the canvas.
There is no denying Pacquiao has fought some very dangerous fighters, even dangerous fighters who dont draw crowds, like Marquez, right after he beat Mab, when he could have taken a soft touch, whereas Floyd has avoided all his percieved threats, like Tszyu, Mosely, Cotto, Margarito and Williams.
Lets be fair and get and use the facts straight let not just spew words because you don't like a fighter. Lineal champs mean crap nowadays. The belts are ran by corrupt organizations. And yes, PBF has beaten lineal champs. Remember he got crap for taking on the lineal champ in Baldomir for the most money. And for his debut at 135 he took on the lineal champ in Castillo then did it again. As for Tszyu, PBF wanted Tsyzu and even went to negotiations. Tsyzu's plan was to go at Hatton first. PBF called out Mosley twice when Mosley was a fearsome lightweight knocking everyone out. Both times Mosley flat out refused with excuses. Remember when Mosley went from 135 to 147? Did he do that to avoid Tsyzu? When PBF fought the cash cow DLH he was accused of ducking the real threats. Mosley skipped an entire division to get at DLH and so did Pac. But I think neither ducked anyone. Its called cherrypicking and every fighter does it. Boxing is a business and you must use smart marketing, crafty management, and make intelligent business decisions.
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Re: The Mayweather double standard.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Taeth
Quote:
Originally Posted by
blegit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
sanchez786
That article is a complete farce. Mayweather DUCKS, Pacman fights the BEST in his division, please and simple. Shame on Mayweather for picking on a completely undersized opponent as JMM. If TRUE boxing fans were allowed to chose Mayweathers opponent it would either be Cotto/Mosley or Williams.
Well, you can't say Pac fights the best in the division. Be all the way fair. At 135, he cherrypicked David Diaz. David Diaz??? So did he duck Casamayor or Campbell? These were the true tests at 135 and both were screaming for Pac. At 147, he picked DLH. Well, that is a division with Williams, Margarito, Cotto, Mosley, PBF, etc. And lets not forget that DLH had not been able to make it to 147 in many years so he wasn't even a 147 pounder. So lets not say Pac fights the best of the division he is in when in fact he doesn't. And how is JMM too small but Pac isn't? People lets not forget that PBF has always been the smaller fighter since he left 135. He walks around at 148 Pac walks around at 143. Finally PBF is the bigger fighter and now its a crime. I am not big on PBF as a person but I know what I see in talent and people hold him to a higher standard because they can't stand how good he is with a mouth like that. Every fighter cherrypicks by the way. Its still a business.
Pacman doesn't walk around at 143 if he is coming into the ring at 148. I guarantee he walks around at roughly the same weight as Mayweather does which is 160. The thing I don't get is how come size is never brought into the equation when Pacquiao fights MArquez, I mean he weighed 3 pounds more in their last fight, I can't see MAyweather having anymore of a weight advantage over Marquez. Also I don't think Marquez will have that much difficulty putting on a little bit of weight, JCC did it fine, Duran did it fine. I think he will retain 95% of his speed, and dramatically increase his strength and power.
You are correct. Freddie Roach was quoted as saying 143 is the comfortable walk around weight for Pac. But coming into his last two fights he weighed more than that. Maybe Pac focused on bulk. I just gave him the benefit of the doubt. And PBF does not walk around at 160. He is not tall enough to look skinny weighing 160. I know its tough to get the truth on fighter's natural weight but my guess is he still has a few pounds on Pac but people act like it is a great difference. Their excuse that JMM is too small is just plain hypocrisy and another double standard. PBF/JMM size difference is much smaller than PBF/Williams, PBF/Margarito, PBF/Mosley size difference! Where is their criticism? Remember when Cotto fought Corley at 140 and he weighed 17 pounds more than him? There wasn't a peep of Cotto criticism.
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Re: The Mayweather double standard.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
You should post the link with the article piye.
The writer is wrong about P4P. You don't have to actually fight outside your optimum division to be rated ;)
you are correct to a point. But having success in more than one division should only work in your favour as to how high you are ranked, don't you agree? Dominating two or more divisions should count for more than dominating one.
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Re: The Mayweather double standard.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CGM
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
You should post the link with the article piye.
The writer is wrong about P4P. You don't have to actually fight outside your optimum division to be rated ;)
you are correct to a point. But having success in more than one division should only work in your favour as to how high you are ranked, don't you agree? Dominating two or more divisions should count for more than dominating one.
But how many fighters actually dominate more than one division?
P4P is based on a fighters best fighting weight. Normally that is a division the fighter is having great success in. Hence a fighter like Hopkins was king without leaving the middleweight division.
There are realistically more divisons for a guy that is naturally 5'8, 154 than a fighter that is 6'1, 185.
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Re: The Mayweather double standard.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ross
Take light welter, Floyd fought Gatti then ran away from Tszyu, he ran up a weight to take longer to beat a fighter that Tszyu had smashed off the canvas.
If you are gonna bash Floyd at least get it right.
Tszyu Hatton was signed before Mayweather and Gatti. And Tszyu lost before Mayweather even beat Gatti so I don't know how Mayweather was ducking someone who was already obligated to fight and then lost. Mayweather then beat the guy who beat Tszyu by knocking him out. And the weight excuse really doesn't come into factor as Mayweather isn't a guy who imposes his will on you and tries to over power you, he lays back lets you come forward and counters you and he would have knocked out Hatton the same way at 140 as he did at 147 because him beating Hatton had to do with Hattons style, how Floyd adjusted to it and timed him. All that would have happened at 140 was Floyd would have been quicker slicker and hit harder so Mayweather beat Hatton no matter how many ways you wanna twist and turn it. and no one gives Hatton shit for beating the natural lightweight and past his prime Castillo did they? No, not a single thing of hate was said. Mayweather also beat Corralez, Genaro Hernandez whose only lost was when he moved up in weight and got beat by Oscar De La hoya, he beat Judah and Baldomir the number 1 and two guys at welterweight, beat Hatton who was the number one guy in the class Floyd "ducked" Tszyu in and he moved up to De La Hoya's weight, in De La Hoya's ring, under De La Hoya's promotion using De La Hoya's gloves and he still won, he didn't make Oscar move down in weight and be "drained" as some call it, he gave Oscar every advantage and still won the fight. People complain about who Floyd ducks and how its wrong he gets a shot, tell me how its right that Erik Morales gets a third fight with Pacquiao and why Pacquiao didn't fight Raheem? Raheem may not have been someone to beat Pacquiao but still if people want to say Mayweather ducked who by beating someone then we can use that same logic and say pacquiao ducked Raheem for an easier fight against an obviously on the slide Erik Morales couldn't we.
Mayweather double standard is true, but the person who wrote the article could have done a better job
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Re: The Mayweather double standard.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
fan johnny
Poorly supported article!
The duck test: "If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a duck."
'Most' People are stupid and can see through the mask. Here's a writer that writes Marquez is a tune up fight and argues that Maweather Jr deserves the same accolades as Pacquiao for similar accomplishments?
This is where a little comprehension has to come into play! because it's a natural oxymoron: "It's not what they have done, it's how they did it!"
Or how about "styles make fights".
Again we're going have to use this age old example:
Joe Frazier beat Ali, Flooring him and giving him two of his toughest fights, Ali said it was the closed to death he has ever felt.
George Foreman absolutely DESTROYED Joe Frazier.
Using your logic because Ali had to dig deep to beat Frazier whilst Foreman almost literally walked through Frazier then Foreman must have been the better fighter?
I seem to remember Ali managing to negate all of Foreman's work and then knocking him out? ;)
Shared opponents have only a small amount of relevance.
The fact of the matter is that boxing ability aside, people go out of their way to pick apart PBF's career because the man is such a dick head outside of the ring but Pac gets no such treatment because he is a nice, humble guy.
People won't mention that Mayweathers style was the reason he took longer than Pac did to KO Hatton, the fact that he is more safety first and wanted to make sure that Hatton was 100% ready to go before opening up on him does not make Pacman '9 rounds better'. We're talking boxing... not Pokemon cards.
Pac advocates and Mayweather Haters won't take into account that Oscar De La Hoya was fully Hydrated and loaded up on glycogen at his optimum weight when Mayweather decisioned him and that he was down at a weight he has not been at in years (hard for an OLD man to do) and that his idiot nutritionist had placed him on a Ketosis diet (meant for mass loss, with no regard to athletic performance) that basically put his body into a catabolic state during his training camp.
Because people love Pac though they're happy to look at the name 'De La Hoya' on Pac's record but disregard any other factors.
It also doesn't help that ODH is a pretty popular hater target either... anything he says regard why he was so badly outclassed by Pac ( I don't want to give Pac zero credit for the win here, but there were reasons it was so bad and they weren't all to do with pac) has been ignored or snubbed because people have wanted to see Oscar fall for a long time.
I'm not saying that Pac has ducked more fights etc but I think it's pretty hard to deny that because PBF is such an arsehole compared to Pac, people will look at Pac through rose tinted glasses and PBF with shit tinted glasses.
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Re: The Mayweather double standard.
Floyd always says "Who has he fought/beaten?"....well who the fuck has Floyd beat?!?!?
He didn't WANT to fight Miguel Cotto, he didn't WANT to fight Paul Williams, he didn't WANT to fight Antonio Margarito.
Floyd is extremely skilled but hell Roy Jones fought better guys than he has!
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Re: The Mayweather double standard.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Lyle
Floyd always says "Who has he fought/beaten?"....well who the fuck has Floyd beat?!?!?
He didn't WANT to fight Miguel Cotto, he didn't WANT to fight Paul Williams, he didn't WANT to fight Antonio Margarito.
Floyd is extremely skilled but hell Roy Jones fought better guys than he has!
Once again I say
if he'd beaten Cotto they'd have said he was inexperienced, like they said in the Margarito fight years later. Paul Williams wasn't established and has now moved up to around middleweight and below, and Margarito was not a threat to Mayweather nor was he a draw.
When Mayweather is the best he doesn't "want" to have to fight anyone, they have to make a name for themselves and fight him.
and Floyd beat everyone to get to the top and then when he was on top people wanted him to act like a fighter still working their way up.
if you look at Pacquiao's list of fighters he has beaten easily, the only person he got to was Barerra which he deserves credit for thats one.
But he only beat Morales after Morales lost to Raheem and moved back down in weight, this is true isn't it? Why didnt Pacquiao fight Raheem? Why did he fight an obviously faded morales? quite simple, for the money. The same thing people try to bash Mayweather for going after. And he never dominated Marquez in ANY of their meetings. Maybe for one round in the first fight but thats the only round he ever dominated isn't it?
Pacquiao moved up and fought David Diaz for the lightweight title right? Why didn't he fight Nate Campbell or Casamayor? Thats about on par with mayweather beating gatti if you wanna go there isn't it?
it can go both ways but everyone only wants to bash Mayweather
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Re: The Mayweather double standard.
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Re: The Mayweather double standard.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Lyle
Floyd always says "Who has he fought/beaten?"....well who the fuck has Floyd beat?!?!?
He didn't WANT to fight Miguel Cotto, he didn't WANT to fight Paul Williams, he didn't WANT to fight Antonio Margarito.
Floyd is extremely skilled but hell Roy Jones fought better guys than he has!
Margarito is a joke, please stop using him as a valid opponent for Mayweather to duck, and Floyd knew he was a joke without any credibility. If Mayweather had outboxed Margarito for 12 rounds similar to Mosley without the knockout he would have been given no credit and people would have complained that he ran all night. As for Cotto, Mayweather was tied up with Hatton and Oscar De La Hoya, and before that Cotto wasn't truly in the picture as competition. IMO Cotto didn't deserve a shot until he beat Mosley which was a month before Mayweather fought Hatton. People are still ignorant to the fact that Mayweather and Cotto never had the oppertunity to fight eachother. Mayweather wanted a breather. If Mayweather legitimately retires without facing one of the three Cotto, Mosley and/or Berto then there is some validity. I think if he fights JMM and Pacquiao, he should still face one of those three if any of them are at the top by the end of this year.
The ironic thing is its so hard for guys like MAyweather and Whitaker to move up compared to Pacquiao, RJJ, and some other guys because Mayweather and Whitaker have a lot less punching power. If you have blinding speed and the power to hurt somebody then you can fight a totally different fight than if you are know you can't stop somebody and you will have to box intelligently. Mayweather and Whitaker are boxing genius' and I just hope MAyweather gets the same credit Whitaker got when he's done his career.
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Re: The Mayweather double standard.
its too early to dissect and compare both pac and pbf career at the moment.. most of the post here are IFS and BUTS... just look at the FACTS then there you know who has the better record as of the moment..
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Re: The Mayweather double standard.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Lyle
Floyd always says "Who has he fought/beaten?"....well who the fuck has Floyd beat?!?!?
He didn't WANT to fight Miguel Cotto, he didn't WANT to fight Paul Williams, he didn't WANT to fight Antonio Margarito.
Floyd is extremely skilled but hell Roy Jones fought better guys than he has!
your out of your fing mind
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Re: The Mayweather double standard.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Lyle
Floyd always says "Who has he fought/beaten?"....well who the fuck has Floyd beat?!?!?
He didn't WANT to fight Miguel Cotto, he didn't WANT to fight Paul Williams, he didn't WANT to fight Antonio Margarito.
Floyd is extremely skilled but hell Roy Jones fought better guys than he has!
That's the main reason he was a disputed WW champ. PBF should have fought them. Cotto, Williams, and Margarito are big names, just like Morales, Barrera, and Marquez.
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Re: The Mayweather double standard.
Fact is Bob Arum never wanted A fight for Cotto or Margarito against Mayweather,Cotto so avoided Mayweather`s name that it was`nt even funny,I remember hearing,Jim Grey,or maybe Kellerman one time kinda grilling Cotto as to why he would not mention or talk about A fight with Mayweather with Bob Arum`s Drunk red ass standing behind Cotto whispering for him what to say,it was Pathetic!....
Nope,...O`l Bob got just what he wanted,kept it in house...Margarito v.s. Cotto,...now the end result is not what Bob would have preffered I`m sure but that was the Gamble,...Margarito loses fair and square to P.Williams(Which should have earned him A shot at Cotto)but instead he is opted to fight A dangerous contender,while Margarito is allowed to beat Cintron down again,(likely with loaded gloves)and the gets the fight with Cotto,...Believe!,...Bob Arum never wanted either Cotto or Margarito to fight Mayweather.
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Re: The Mayweather double standard.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Quinito
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Lyle
Floyd always says "Who has he fought/beaten?"....well who the fuck has Floyd beat?!?!?
He didn't WANT to fight Miguel Cotto, he didn't WANT to fight Paul Williams, he didn't WANT to fight Antonio Margarito.
Floyd is extremely skilled but hell Roy Jones fought better guys than he has!
That's the main reason he was a disputed WW champ. PBF should have fought them. Cotto, Williams, and Margarito are big names, just like Morales, Barrera, and Marquez.
Mayweather dominated 2 weight classes. And lets be real nobody is dominating 147! Even Pac chose to cherrypick DLH out of that division and you'll never see him there again. Regardless of who you think is better. Can you be honest and say that there is definitely a Mayweather double standard?
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Re: The Mayweather double standard.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
blegit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Quinito
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Lyle
Floyd always says "Who has he fought/beaten?"....well who the fuck has Floyd beat?!?!?
He didn't WANT to fight Miguel Cotto, he didn't WANT to fight Paul Williams, he didn't WANT to fight Antonio Margarito.
Floyd is extremely skilled but hell Roy Jones fought better guys than he has!
That's the main reason he was a disputed WW champ. PBF should have fought them. Cotto, Williams, and Margarito are big names, just like Morales, Barrera, and Marquez.
Mayweather dominated 2 weight classes. And lets be real nobody is dominating 147! Even Pac chose to cherrypick DLH out of that division and you'll never see him there again. Regardless of who you think is better. Can you be honest and say that there is definitely a Mayweather double standard?
First of all, DLH called out Pac, you have it the other way around. And second, nobody knew DLH was gonna be weight drain the night he fought Pac. FYI, Pac was the heavy underdog. 28 out of 30 of so called "boxing experts" picked DLH to win. Stop making shit up.
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Re: The Mayweather double standard.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Quinito
Quote:
Originally Posted by
blegit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Quinito
That's the main reason he was a disputed WW champ. PBF should have fought them. Cotto, Williams, and Margarito are big names, just like Morales, Barrera, and Marquez.
Mayweather dominated 2 weight classes. And lets be real nobody is dominating 147! Even Pac chose to cherrypick DLH out of that division and you'll never see him there again. Regardless of who you think is better. Can you be honest and say that there is definitely a Mayweather double standard?
First of all, DLH called out Pac, you have it the other way around. And second, nobody knew DLH was gonna be weight drain the night he fought Pac. FYI, Pac was the heavy underdog. 28 out of 30 of so called "boxing experts" picked DLH to win. Stop making shit up.
I can't fault PAC or PBF for taking the ODLH payday. That being said it was certainly not the most important fight of eithers career and should not be used to gauge their skill.
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Re: The Mayweather double standard.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ross
P4P means you are the best boxer around regardless of size.
Manny has beaten more current linear champs than Floyd has, infact has Floyd beaten any?
Take light welter, Floyd fought Gatti then ran away from Tszyu, he ran up a weight to take longer to beat a fighter that Tszyu had smashed off the canvas.
There is no denying Pacquiao has fought some very dangerous fighters, even dangerous fighters who dont draw crowds, like Marquez, right after he beat Mab, when he could have taken a soft touch, whereas Floyd has avoided all his percieved threats, like Tszyu, Mosely, Cotto, Margarito and Williams.
Tszyu had already lost to Hatton by the time Mayweather beat Gatti, and well Kostya hasn't fought since, Mayweather went on to beat the shit out of Hatton and yet still gets crap for it, if he would have beaten up Tszyu after the Gatti fight he would of gotten "oh he was already past it, and Hatton already "softened" him up", seriously look at Mayweather's record, has plenty of GREAT wins on it over GREAT fighters, many of which went on to become lineal champs of their divisions, or at least give everyone else hell, it's been said time and time again, Mayweather will always get crap and will never get the credit he deserves, he could beat Marquez, Pacquiao, Cotto, Mosley, and Williams, by the end of 2010 and people will still say that he "avoided" Berto, Ortiz, Angulo, Kirkland, etc., give the guy a break, and i'm by no means a Mayweather fan
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Re: The Mayweather double standard.
Alright, I am no Pac hater in fact I think the guy earned his undisputed #1 p4p crown with his last victory. I like to keep my emotions out and just be up front and honest. I like Pac more than I like PBF but I am no fool and I will not pretend that Pac is better than PBF. PBF must take on all these bigger fighters of all styles just to move the criticism somewhere else. Nobody gives Pac any criticism for cherrypicking David Diaz and DLH. And nobody wants to acknowledge that Pac AVOIDS boxers. To me Pac is still #1 p4p but I am not going to pretend what I don't see what I see. PBF has fought about every style out there. How many styles has Pac seen? About 1. He feasts on the fighters who come straight at him. Does anyone really want to argue against that? The closest thing to a boxer/movers he has fought is JMM and we see the hell he got. Heck, PBF is even getting criticism for fighting his first time out the #2 p4p guy who gave Pac hell. Why does Pac get all these passes? He fights no boxers who can move. He fought no one at 135 or 147. I am not trying to get all over Pac but if we are going to criticism PBF then lets criticize Pac. But let the criticism be one standard. I know thats difficult because of PBF's mouth but it makes for more accurate opinions.
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Re: The Mayweather double standard.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Quinito
Quote:
Originally Posted by
blegit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Quinito
That's the main reason he was a disputed WW champ. PBF should have fought them. Cotto, Williams, and Margarito are big names, just like Morales, Barrera, and Marquez.
Mayweather dominated 2 weight classes. And lets be real nobody is dominating 147! Even Pac chose to cherrypick DLH out of that division and you'll never see him there again. Regardless of who you think is better. Can you be honest and say that there is definitely a Mayweather double standard?
First of all, DLH called out Pac, you have it the other way around. And second, nobody knew DLH was gonna be weight drain the night he fought Pac. FYI, Pac was the heavy underdog. 28 out of 30 of so called "boxing experts" picked DLH to win. Stop making shit up.
Making what up? Back it up with facts. DLH hadn't fought at 147 in how many years? So he called Pac out? How about when Mosley called Pac out? How about Margarito calling Pac out? And I call Pac's move a cherrypick because he only took DLH call up offer. No real threat at 147 even got looked at. That is cherrypicking. You don't have to call the person out to cherrypick. How about Pac cherrypicking David Diaz at 135? I don't blame Pac for taking the cash cow DLH but don't overly credit him(drool on his balls) for fighting someone who was not a top 147 pounder. He wasn't even a 147 pounder. At 154 would have been credible. And lets keep your mouth clean and your facts also.
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Re: The Mayweather double standard.
What really kills me is that a couple of years from now people are still going to bitch that Mayweather "cherry picked" his opponents after he came back from retirement and beat the #2 p4p fighter in the world as a tune up to beat the #1 p4p fighter in the world. And yes, I am so confident that Mayweather is in a completely different league from both of them to make that statement beforehand. If PBF came out of retirement and signed to fight Kelly Pavlik and took him to a decision victory there would STILL be legions of people screaming that he ducked someone, as unbelievable as that is, but it's the truth. And I really actually do love that people hate him that much.
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Re: The Mayweather double standard.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mr. Cosell
What really kills me is that a couple of years from now people are still going to bitch that Mayweather "cherry picked" his opponents after he came back from retirement and beat the #2 p4p fighter in the world as a tune up to beat the #1 p4p fighter in the world. And yes, I am so confident that Mayweather is in a completely different league from both of them to make that statement beforehand. If PBF came out of retirement and signed to fight Kelly Pavlik and took him to a decision victory there would STILL be legions of people screaming that he ducked someone, as unbelievable as that is, but it's the truth. And I really actually do love that people hate him that much.
You know what we should do, is to hell with this pound for pound bull crap. What if p4p no2 at the moment was Vic Darchinyan. Would you want praise for PBF beating p4p no2 then??? No. p4p means absolute crap in my eyes and its becoming annoying reading about it everywhere. p4p against p4p this and p4p that. What a load of twoddle.
Actual boxing fans know the match-ups they want to see and can surely see through the fickle nature of the now, Pacman vs PBF talk. What happened to PBF vs Williams, or then PBF vs Mosely when he dispatched Margarito.
I wanna see PBF beat a world clas 147 fighter like Williams or Mosley or Cotto and would watch that 9 times out of ten when pacman is concerned. I wanna see Pacman fight Marquez again. Just like I wanna see Vic Darchinyan fight Nonito again. Lets call it "True Foes" fight time. I say we have less of this moving up the weights and avoisding what we all know are the real challenges because lets face it, in a nut shell, it aint no different than Amir Kahn waltzing his way into Welter to fight for a title against Kotelnik, which he will win i'm sure, and will then try and call himself world class in the Welterweight division. Boll***s. Lets have you back down at LW to rematch Prescott first sunshine, your "Foe".
Sorry, rant over....
For the record, i see Mayweather catching manny pac on the counter all day long no sweat. Marquez will be a tougher fight in my eyes.
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Re: The Mayweather double standard.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
themacmagician
Actual boxing fans know the match-ups they want to see and can surely see through the fickle nature of the now, Pacman vs PBF talk. What happened to PBF vs Williams, or then PBF vs Mosely when he dispatched Margarito.
I wanna see PBF beat a world clas 147 fighter like Williams or Mosley or Cotto and would watch that 9 times out of ten when pacman is concerned. I wanna see Pacman fight Marquez again. Just like I wanna see Vic Darchinyan fight Nonito again. Lets call it "True Foes" fight time. I say we have less of this moving up the weights and avoisding what we all know are the real challenges because lets face it, in a nut shell, it aint no different than Amir Kahn waltzing his way into Welter to fight for a title against Kotelnik, which he will win i'm sure, and will then try and call himself world class in the Welterweight division. Boll***s. Lets have you back down at LW to rematch Prescott first sunshine, your "Foe".
Sorry, rant over....
For the record, i see Mayweather catching manny pac on the counter all day long no sweat. Marquez will be a tougher fight in my eyes.
yeah but if Mosley was saying he was gonna fight the Pacquiao Hatton winner and Pacquiao won then no one on this forum would be complaining . They'd say that they picked against Pacquiao against Oscar and won't do it again and some will even stretch to probably say that Mosley could stop Pacquiao.
The fact is 4 pounds aren't gonna really make a difference in that fight if Pacquiao and Mayweather fought each other. Pacquiao has dismantled Oscar at 147 and knocked out Hatton at 140 so if him and Mayweather fought at 144 whats your problem?
To compare Vic Darchiniyan to that seems like a desperate stretch. Mayweather and Pacquiao are only 4 pounds apart not 25
as far as what happened to Mosley Mayweather and Williams vs Mayweather. And Mayweather vs Margarito those three are always thrown our along with Cotto and I will say it again like i've said it a million times
if Cotto was beat by Floyd they'd have said Cotto was inexperienced, as its the same excuse they used when Margarito won. And Paul Williams went up and down in weight and lets not forget he lost that title upon his first title defense and then after beating Quintana in a rematch he moved up in weight, don't blame Mayweather for that. As far as Shane goes he is playing the waiting game after beating Margarito and may have even called out the Pacquiao Hatton winner and i bet if he did no one would be complaining as much as if Floyd did.
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Re: The Mayweather double standard.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Majesty
Quote:
Originally Posted by
themacmagician
Actual boxing fans know the match-ups they want to see and can surely see through the fickle nature of the now, Pacman vs PBF talk. What happened to PBF vs Williams, or then PBF vs Mosely when he dispatched Margarito.
I wanna see PBF beat a world clas 147 fighter like Williams or Mosley or Cotto and would watch that 9 times out of ten when pacman is concerned. I wanna see Pacman fight Marquez again. Just like I wanna see Vic Darchinyan fight Nonito again. Lets call it "True Foes" fight time. I say we have less of this moving up the weights and avoisding what we all know are the real challenges because lets face it, in a nut shell, it aint no different than Amir Kahn waltzing his way into Welter to fight for a title against Kotelnik, which he will win i'm sure, and will then try and call himself world class in the Welterweight division. Boll***s. Lets have you back down at LW to rematch Prescott first sunshine, your "Foe".
Sorry, rant over....
For the record, i see Mayweather catching manny pac on the counter all day long no sweat. Marquez will be a tougher fight in my eyes.
yeah but if Mosley was saying he was gonna fight the Pacquiao Hatton winner and Pacquiao won then no one on this forum would be complaining . They'd say that they picked against Pacquiao against Oscar and won't do it again and some will even stretch to probably say that Mosley could stop Pacquiao.
The fact is 4 pounds aren't gonna really make a difference in that fight if Pacquiao and Mayweather fought each other. Pacquiao has dismantled Oscar at 147 and knocked out Hatton at 140 so if him and Mayweather fought at 144 whats your problem?
To compare Vic Darchiniyan to that seems like a desperate stretch. Mayweather and Pacquiao are only 4 pounds apart not 25
as far as what happened to Mosley Mayweather and Williams vs Mayweather. And Mayweather vs Margarito those three are always thrown our along with Cotto and I will say it again like i've said it a million times
if Cotto was beat by Floyd they'd have said Cotto was inexperienced, as its the same excuse they used when Margarito won. And Paul Williams went up and down in weight and lets not forget he lost that title upon his first title defense and then after beating Quintana in a rematch he moved up in weight, don't blame Mayweather for that. As far as Shane goes he is playing the waiting game after beating Margarito and may have even called out the Pacquiao Hatton winner and i bet if he did no one would be complaining as much as if Floyd did.
I'm pretty sure he's refferring to Marquez when he's talking about the weight issue with PBF. Magicmagician is right about this p4p bollocks, with Pac's win over Hatton he is a genuine opponent for PBF, but JMM done nothing over 135, and seemed to struggle a lttile w ith the strength of Diaz (not with his ability), so pretty certain moving up an extra nine pounds IS going to have a big effect.
When referring to having a shot at the lineal WELTERWEIGHT champ (PBF), who's really done more, the guy who beat Diaz at 135, or the guy who mauled Margarito at 147? I don't buy this being a small welterweight crap at all, if you can't make 140 then you ARE a welterweight PERIOD.
Lets remember that PBF signed up to figt JMM (and probably Pac was next intended) BEFORE Pac showed how destructive he was at 140.
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Re: The Mayweather double standard.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JT Rock
your out of your fing mind
Maybe I am...I'm not hating on his skill but has Floyd EVER fought the 100% aboslute best of any weight class he's been in? Zab Judah? Carlos Baldomir? Arturo Gatti?
Miguel Cotto not only has a big fan base, he's a very good fighter...I don't buy that whole "inexperienced" bs for a second. His loss vs Margarito was a legit loss, it's hindsight that makes everyone say LOADED GLOVES and maybe that is right, we'll see in the future what happens with him.
Maybe Floyd never ducked anyone, but he sure as hell never went out of his way to fight the collective best of each division he set foot in, only recently has he really stepped his game up. He never even tried to unify titles.
I'm sorry, but as a boxing fan I feel cheated from Floyd Mayweather. He hasn't given the fans what they want....perhaps a fight with JMM or Pac can remedy that.
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Re: The Mayweather double standard.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Majesty
Quote:
Originally Posted by
themacmagician
Actual boxing fans know the match-ups they want to see and can surely see through the fickle nature of the now, Pacman vs PBF talk. What happened to PBF vs Williams, or then PBF vs Mosely when he dispatched Margarito.
I wanna see PBF beat a world clas 147 fighter like Williams or Mosley or Cotto and would watch that 9 times out of ten when pacman is concerned. I wanna see Pacman fight Marquez again. Just like I wanna see Vic Darchinyan fight Nonito again. Lets call it "True Foes" fight time. I say we have less of this moving up the weights and avoisding what we all know are the real challenges because lets face it, in a nut shell, it aint no different than Amir Kahn waltzing his way into Welter to fight for a title against Kotelnik, which he will win i'm sure, and will then try and call himself world class in the Welterweight division. Boll***s. Lets have you back down at LW to rematch Prescott first sunshine, your "Foe".
Sorry, rant over....
For the record, i see Mayweather catching manny pac on the counter all day long no sweat. Marquez will be a tougher fight in my eyes.
yeah but if Mosley was saying he was gonna fight the Pacquiao Hatton winner and Pacquiao won then no one on this forum would be complaining . They'd say that they picked against Pacquiao against Oscar and won't do it again and some will even stretch to probably say that Mosley could stop Pacquiao.
The fact is 4 pounds aren't gonna really make a difference in that fight if Pacquiao and Mayweather fought each other. Pacquiao has dismantled Oscar at 147 and knocked out Hatton at 140 so if him and Mayweather fought at 144 whats your problem?
To compare Vic Darchiniyan to that seems like a desperate stretch. Mayweather and Pacquiao are only 4 pounds apart not 25
as far as what happened to Mosley Mayweather and Williams vs Mayweather. And Mayweather vs Margarito those three are always thrown our along with Cotto and I will say it again like i've said it a million times
if Cotto was beat by Floyd they'd have said Cotto was inexperienced, as its the same excuse they used when Margarito won. And Paul Williams went up and down in weight and lets not forget he lost that title upon his first title defense and then after beating Quintana in a rematch he moved up in weight, don't blame Mayweather for that. As far as Shane goes he is playing the waiting game after beating Margarito and may have even called out the Pacquiao Hatton winner and i bet if he did no one would be complaining as much as if Floyd did.
I don't agree with your comment pal unfortunately, I really am not convinced by someone who moves up in weight and doesn't fight a lineal or recognised best fighter. Mayweather needs to fight the top people at his designated weight division to class himself the best, just like pacman has, beating hatton at 140. I'm really not interested one bit in this p4p bullshit, i just wanna see the best fight the best and have done with it. best vs best at that weight division. If pacman beats mayweather then he can't possibly be considered the best at welterwight as mayweather hasn't fought a top welterweight. If Mayweather beats Cotto or Williams I will hold him in very very high regard, just like anyone with half a boxing brain should do. Just like pacman should now be held in high regard after demolishing Hatton.
To be honest its all very confusing, he beats him is he better than him or not rubbish. All the comparison over different weights is just crap. Think you missed my point on darchinyan.....
To be honest, and i'm perfectly sure i'm not on my own, i just wish that there was one belt up for grabs in each division, then all this rubbish about whos best and p4p and moving up weights would be easier to make a judgement on. This p4p is a load of mythical tripe and should be left at that.
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Re: The Mayweather double standard.
Mayweather has created his own handicap with the double standard by proclaiming himself the best and even the greatest of all time. He doesn't do it the way Ali did and create an atmosphere when he's boasting, he just comes off like an ass.
When you tell everyone you're the greatest, then never have a great fight, not JUST because you're so good, but because you won't take a risk in the ring.
The problem is he's just like his dad, he makes these silly boasts and he doesn't have the personality to pull it off like Ali.
In contrast, I've never heard Pac proclaim himself as the greatest, nor did his trainer. If you let other people say it you don't get the hassle.
Jr. and Sr. need a publicist that is not related to them, that can explain to them how to get a decent public image.
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Re: The Mayweather double standard.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Lyle
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JT Rock
your out of your fing mind
Maybe I am...I'm not hating on his skill but has Floyd EVER fought the 100% aboslute best of any weight class he's been in? Zab Judah? Carlos Baldomir? Arturo Gatti?
Miguel Cotto not only has a big fan base, he's a very good fighter...I don't buy that whole "inexperienced" bs for a second. His loss vs Margarito was a legit loss, it's hindsight that makes everyone say LOADED GLOVES and maybe that is right, we'll see in the future what happens with him.
Maybe Floyd never ducked anyone, but he sure as hell never went out of his way to fight the collective best of each division he set foot in, only recently has he really stepped his game up. He never even tried to unify titles.
I'm sorry, but as a boxing fan I feel cheated from Floyd Mayweather. He hasn't given the fans what they want....perhaps a fight with JMM or Pac can remedy that.
I am tired of argueing the rest of this, but Cotto was definitely a very good fighter, but he still didn't prove himself at the top level until he faced Mosley. Judah doesn't count, and he didn't look super great againt Judah who had him bleeding, hurt a few times. Cotto didn't look like a true challenge for Mayweather until after his fight with Mosley.
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Re: The Mayweather double standard.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
luvfightgame
Mayweather has created his own handicap with the double standard by proclaiming himself the best and even the greatest of all time. He doesn't do it the way Ali did and create an atmosphere when he's boasting, he just comes off like an ass.
When you tell everyone you're the greatest, then never have a great fight, not JUST because you're so good, but because you won't take a risk in the ring.
The problem is he's just like his dad, he makes these silly boasts and he doesn't have the personality to pull it off like Ali.
In contrast, I've never heard Pac proclaim himself as the greatest, nor did his trainer. If you let other people say it you don't get the hassle.
Jr. and Sr. need a publicist that is not related to them, that can explain to them how to get a decent public image.
Ali didn't come of as an ass? Did you watch any of his interviews? I am sorry to say but Ali would be kicked out of boxing for half the crap he said back in the day. I love him, but he was a prick.
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Re: The Mayweather double standard.
While true Taeth, Ali was an ass, but can you name me 1 fighter he ducked/avoided/didn't want to fight?
Ali didn't HAVE to fight Joe Frazier a third time since #1 Ali beat Joe and avenged his loss #2 Joe got DEMOLISHED by Foremand and #3 Ali beat Foreman but Ali took the fight and it ended up being one of the greatest fights ever.
Floyd Mayweather's career can be summed up in 3 words "Proceed With Caution" people bitch about Wladimir being too cautious a fighter...well what the fuck is Floyd?!?!?! Wlad hasn't ducked anyone? Wlad HAS gone out of his way to try and fight the best out there. All I can say is guys like Jermain Taylor (Hopkins x 2, Winky Wright, Kelly Pavlik x 2) make Floyd look like a pussy....hell Floyd's fight vs Oscar (which was only a MAJORITY DECISION) is tantamount to Joe Calzaghe beating Roy Jones Jr....at least Pacquiao stopped Oscar and Pac just friggin flattened Hatton.
As a fan, knowing that Floyd is HANDS DOWN the most skilled fighter in the whole world...I feel ripped off that he hasn't taken risks with his career. Every so often you get a fight like the Diego Corrales fight or Jose Luis Castillo, but more often you get Sharmba Mitchell, Zab Judah and Carlos Baldomir.
And Taeth you can argue all you want AGAINST Miguel Cotto getting a shot vs Floyd but allow me to bring up 2 names on Floyd's record HENRY BRUSELES and VICTORIANO SOSA. Bruseles had 24 total fights when he got a shot vs PBF, at that time Cotto only had 4 less fights than Bruseles only he hadn't lost. As for Sosa, Floyd took him 12, Cotto took him 4. Before the Mosley fight Mayweather didn't want to fight Cotto, after the Mosley fight he didn't want to fight Cotto and that fight basically was for the right to fight Floyd Mayweather only Floyd didn't want to fight either guy BOTH OF WHOM I might add would give him a very tough fight.
