Re: Power and Frank Bruno
Good thread, I'll post my numbers in a min
Re: Power and Frank Bruno
His punching power didn't diminish. Higher class fighters have better skills -defense, offense, chin, bottle etc.. so naturally it is far harder to win.
Not sure about the 1-to-10 order. I am sure a clump off any would hurt. Badly.
Re: Power and Frank Bruno
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dark Lord Al
I am very interested in your views guys and gals.
Frank Bruno's punches used to blow away lesser opposition , with ease , so when he reached world class did his power become less affective due to the fact he wasn't a world class puncher ?
My theory is Bruno telegraphed his punches and lacked sharpness , which made his power less effective , someone like Tyson was all about speed and power combined.
Bruno at an early age blew British fighters away , but someone like prospect Tyson Fury , is a combination puncher. Frank could hit , but my question to you guys is how hard did he hit ?
Please give us your theories and compare Bruno's power to the following.
Please rank all of the following's power from 1 - 10 and put them in order.
ok on 1 punch power ill try give it a go
Frazier. 8
Tyson. 8
Foreman. 9
Wlad. 9
Viltali. 9
Liston. 8
Lennox Lewis. 8
Frank Bruno. 8
Riddick Bowe. 7
Evander Holyfield. 6
might decide to adjust it a little :-\
see above
Re: Power and Frank Bruno
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
His punching power didn't diminish. Higher class fighters have better skills -defense, offense, chin, bottle etc.. so naturally it is far harder to win.
Not sure about the 1-to-10 order. I am sure a clump off any would hurt. Badly.
Yes i also think they could anticipate his shots due to his lack of sharpness , and nullify them.
Re: Power and Frank Bruno
ad say forman would be the hardest puncher out of that lot
Re: Power and Frank Bruno
Quote:
Originally Posted by
eleven
ad say forman would be the hardest puncher out of that lot
The thread is for comparison not just to pick 1 and i presume your mean Foreman ?
Re: Power and Frank Bruno
Quote:
Originally Posted by
BIG H
Good thread, I'll post my numbers in a min
Foreman 9
Viltali 9
Frazier 8
Tyson 8
Lennox Lewis 8
Wlad 8
Liston 8
Riddick Bowe 8
Frank Bruno 8
Evander Holyfield 6
Re: Power and Frank Bruno
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dark Lord Al
I am very interested in your views guys and gals.
Frank Bruno's punches used to blow away lesser opposition , with ease , so when he reached world class did his power become less affective due to the fact he wasn't a world class puncher ?
My theory is Bruno telegraphed his punches and lacked sharpness , which made his power less effective , someone like Tyson was all about speed and power combined.
Bruno at an early age blew British fighters away , but someone like prospect Tyson Fury , is a combination puncher. Frank could hit , but my question to you guys is how hard did he hit ?
Please give us your theories and compare Bruno's power to the following.
Please rank all of the following's power from 1 - 10 and put them in order.
Frazier.
Tyson.
Foreman.
Wlad.
Viltali.
Liston.
Lennox Lewis.
Frank Bruno.
Riddick Bowe.
Evander Holyfield.
Many thanks.
I think Frank Bruno lacked a real killer instinct thats what let him down, he had fighters like Tim Witherspoon, James Smith, Lennox Lewis, Mike Tyson, all hurt yet he never really pressed the advantage he had.
And also to be fair to Frank Bruno the fighters he lost to Mike Tyson x2, Lennox Lewis, James Smith, Tim Witherspoon, at there best have known to be pretty durable.
Frazier. 8
Tyson. 8
Foreman. 10
Wlad. 8
Viltali. 8
Liston. 8
Lennox Lewis. 8
Frank Bruno. 8
Riddick Bowe. 7
Evander Holyfield. 6
Re: Power and Frank Bruno
OK, I have a two pronged approach when calculating punching power #1 Is the weight of the punch how hard it lands #2 Is the speed of the punch as we all know Weight + Velocity = Momentum and for this conversation the Momentum will = Power.
Weight of the punch
1. Foreman
2. Lewis
3. Frazier
4. Tyson
5. Vitali
6. Wladimir
7. Bruno
8. Liston
9. Bowe
10. Holyfield
Speed of the punch
1. Tyson
2. Frazier
3. Wladimir
4. Lewis
5. Vitali
6. Holyfield
7. Bruno
8. Bowe
9. Liston
10. Foreman
Frazier. = 7.5
Tyson. = 7.5
Foreman. = 5.5
Wlad. = 7
Viltali. = 5
Liston. = 1.5
Lennox Lewis. = 7
Frank Bruno. = 3
Riddick Bowe. = 1.5
Evander Holyfield. = 2
That is out of 10 and specifically judging these 10 fighters' power against one another. So the order I have them together based on my calculations which I just made up at this moment without knowledge of what the order would be are:
1. Tyson & Frazier - 7.5/10
3. Lewis & Wlad - 7/10
5. Foreman - 5.5/10
6. Vitali - 5/10
7. Bruno - 3/10
8. Holyfield -2/10
9. Bowe & Liston 1.5/10
So there you have it folks...seems ok to me, I mean obviously I think Big George is the most devistating puncher of all time but speed does enter the equation at some point and he had "heavy hands". I wouldn't want to get punched by any of those guys.
Re: Power and Frank Bruno
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dark Lord Al
IPlease give us your theories and compare Bruno's power to the following.
Please rank all of the following's power from 1 - 10
(Marking on the curve)
Frazier 7
Tyson 10
Foreman 9.5
Wlad 7.5
Viltali 8
Liston 9.5
Lennox Lewis 8.5
Frank Bruno 8
Riddick Bowe 8.5
Evander Holyfield 7.5
Bruno was a strong man, who had a clubbing power. He always seemed to hit a lot of his opponents on the side of the head, and this seemed to disorientate them, causing the stoppage.
Bruno's power to a point, was part of the reason he never quite made it to the very top.
My point being, that the opponents that match makers knew would good to give the name fighter, rarely worked with Bruno.
Your James Tillis' Jesse Ferguson's and indeed Mike Evans were all seemingly capable of taking Bruno rounds at the time they met, and yet none of them really did.
That hurt Bruno IMO when he did step up to the very top level.
Re: Power and Frank Bruno
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Lyle
my calculations
:)
Re: Power and Frank Bruno
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Lyle
OK, I have a two pronged approach when calculating punching power #1 Is the weight of the punch how hard it lands #2 Is the speed of the punch as we all know Weight + Velocity = Momentum and for this conversation the Momentum will = Power.
Weight of the punch
1. Foreman
2. Lewis
3. Frazier
4. Tyson
5. Vitali
6. Wladimir
7. Bruno
8. Liston
9. Bowe
10. Holyfield
Speed of the punch
1. Tyson
2. Frazier
3. Wladimir
4. Lewis
5. Vitali
6. Holyfield
7. Bruno
8. Bowe
9. Liston
10. Foreman
Frazier. = 7.5
Tyson. = 7.5
Foreman. = 5.5
Wlad. = 7
Viltali. = 5
Liston. = 1.5
Lennox Lewis. = 7
Frank Bruno. = 3
Riddick Bowe. = 1.5
Evander Holyfield. = 2
That is out of 10 and specifically judging these 10 fighters' power against one another. So the order I have them together based on my calculations which I just made up at this moment without knowledge of what the order would be are:
1. Tyson & Frazier - 7.5/10
3. Lewis & Wlad - 7/10
5. Foreman - 5.5/10
6. Vitali - 5/10
7. Bruno - 3/10
8. Holyfield -2/10
9. Bowe & Liston 1.5/10
So there you have it folks...seems ok to me, I mean obviously I think Big George is the most devistating puncher of all time but speed does enter the equation at some point and he had "heavy hands". I wouldn't want to get punched by any of those guys.
If you have Sonny Liston, and Riddick Bowe with 1.5/10 and Wladimr Klitschko with a 7/10, well I'd say your system is a bit flawed. And dare I say it...BIAS.
lol
Re: Power and Frank Bruno
I think Vitali really has a case that he his hardest of all time.
I mean 36ko's in 37 wins, I think any fighter in history would be
doing well to equal that , even if they were to fight his
exact opponents,
for example if Fraiser or Lewis had fought all his opponents wouls they
have as high a ko raste? Im not to sure...
Re: Power and Frank Bruno
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Phil
I think Vitali really has a case that he his hardest of all time.
I mean 36ko's in 37 wins, I think any fighter in history would be
doing well to equal that , even if they were to fight his
exact opponents,
for example if Fraiser or Lewis had fought all his opponents wouls they
have as high a ko raste? Im not to sure...
I don't think he has stopped anybody that most of the others on that list wouldn't have stopped. Stopping nearly all of your opponents doesn't always tell the full story... i.e
LaMar Clark
Re: Power and Frank Bruno
A bit of useless info for you: Lamar Clark fought Apollo Creed's trainer from Rocky Tony Burton
Re: Power and Frank Bruno
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Phil
I think Vitali really has a case that he his hardest of all time.
I mean 36ko's in 37 wins, I think any fighter in history would be
doing well to equal that , even if they were to fight his
exact opponents,
for example if Fraiser or Lewis had fought all his opponents wouls they
have as high a ko raste? Im not to sure...
Mac Foster had a 100 percent KO record, that doesn't mean he's the hardest hitting Heavyweight of all time. Although he had a few good KO wins over some goodish Heavyweights.
Who has Vitali Klitschko stopped really ? the best opponent he has stopped is arguably Corrie Sanders. Who doesn't even take boxing seriously, and Vitali Klitschko hit him with everything but the kitchen sink, but couldn't KO him.
Joe Frazier maybe a bit small too stop some of the Heavyweights of the modern era, but Lennox Lewis ? i would bet my house on him stopping the likes of Kirk Johnson, Danny Williams, Corrie Sanders, Larry Donald, Samuel Peter, any day of the week.
Vitali Klitschko is seriously overrated on here sure he's a good boxer with a good chin, but he's only known because he gave an out of shape Lennox Lewis a tough fight. But he still couldn't beat him, hell Hasim Rahman atleast stopped an out of shape Lennox Lewis. So what does that say about Vitali Klitschko's power ? or Vitali Klitschko himself ?
Re: Power and Frank Bruno
Frazier could bang but he wouldn't stop Larry Donald. Larry had very good movement, say what you will about him as a fighter but anyone it takes 10 rounds for Vitali to walk down is going to be very hard for Frazier to catch. Riddick Bowe couldn't even get ahold of him to KO him and remember Vitali threw his ass down a couple times. I'm not saying Joe wouldn't completely and utterly whip his ass, he just wouldn't stop him IMO.
And Hulk, sure you could say I'm biased but allow the record to show that Wladimir has more KO's AND a better KO percentage than Riddick Bowe 43 wins 33 KO = 76 % KO percentage and Sonny Liston 50 wins 39 KO = 78% KO Percentage...Wladimir has 52 wins 46 KO = 88% KO Percentage....so I can support my claim. And If I was so biased then why would I have Wladimir rated ahead of Foreman who is (outside of Rocky Marciano) my favorite heavyweight of all time and IMO the hardest punching heavyweight of all time? I just used a different method to arrive at the guys I think hit the hardest and honestly it doesn't look so bad right now...it's fairly unbiased as it took into account the speed and weight behind the punches and merged those together.
Sonny Liston fought in an era that was worse than Marciano's and he wasn't at the top for too long either. He could punch fairly hard but his signature KO's were of Floyd Patterson a light heavyweight.
I haven't seen many shots Riddick landed that wowed me...he was a great fighter for a short amount of time and was a great blood and guts boxer but he didn't really hit all that hard with 1 punch.
Re: Power and Frank Bruno
Lyle's stats ;D
What a great example of showing how useless and skewed stats are.
Re: Power and Frank Bruno
Franks problem was confidence. In a gym He was loose, a few times His sparing Partners from the States, Who had Sparred with the top Boys always said Frank was the Hardest hitter they had been in with. That I found interesting, in a Big one Frank would Tense up, think that was a Big part of it.
Re: Power and Frank Bruno
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Lyle's stats ;D
What a great example of showing how useless and skewed stats are.
Hey I never said that my new little system for figuring out punching power was perfect.
The whole reason I used that Speed and Power system is because the Tyson fans are always "Mike Tyson hit harder than George Foreman and he was the hardest puncher of all time"...so I developed a system where I didn't even know who would come out as the #1 puncher and therefore I couldn't be biased. I really tried to do this in a non-biased way.
I guess you can't make everyone happy :-\
Re: Power and Frank Bruno
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ICB
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Phil
I think Vitali really has a case that he his hardest of all time.
I mean 36ko's in 37 wins, I think any fighter in history would be
doing well to equal that , even if they were to fight his
exact opponents,
for example if Fraiser or Lewis had fought all his opponents wouls they
have as high a ko raste? Im not to sure...
Mac Foster had a 100 percent KO record, that doesn't mean he's the hardest hitting Heavyweight of all time. Although he had a few good KO wins over some goodish Heavyweights.
Who has Vitali Klitschko stopped really ? the best opponent he has stopped is arguably Corrie Sanders. Who doesn't even take boxing seriously, and Vitali Klitschko hit him with everything but the kitchen sink, but couldn't KO him.
Joe Frazier maybe a bit small too stop some of the Heavyweights of the modern era, but Lennox Lewis ? i would bet my house on him stopping the likes of Kirk Johnson, Danny Williams, Corrie Sanders, Larry Donald, Samuel Peter, any day of the week.
Vitali Klitschko is seriously overrated on here sure he's a good boxer with a good chin, but he's only known because he gave an out of shape Lennox Lewis a tough fight. But he still couldn't beat him, hell Hasim Rahman atleast stopped an out of shape Lennox Lewis. So what does that say about Vitali Klitschko's power ? or Vitali Klitschko himself ?
im 100% positive that in any other era the klitschkos would of failed to make a mark let alone win endless world titles.
Face it for all their technical skill and ring knowledge these guys would never of been able to go toe to toe with a 70s frazier, 80s foreman, 90s bowe etc
Im not the biggest david haye fan in the world but without sounding byest towards a fellow countrymen it is obviously clear that the heavyweight division NEEDS a David Haye knockout win next month.
I want my heavyweight champion of the world to be a well spoken, cocky, arrogant, well toned hard hitter. Not some big lump with a half decent jump who manages to see off 95% of his opponents on the basis of being able to jab his way out of trouble for 12rounds!!
Re: Power and Frank Bruno
....you mean you didn't like Lennox Lewis?
BURN
Re: Power and Frank Bruno
First off, hello lads! I've been away for a while.
My opinion on Bruno is he was a fine fighter who was always in shape, but couldn't win the big fights (not that he didn't have some good wins.) Great power and KO record, but will unfortunately will be most remembered for his losses.
As to his power, he had it I just think he didn't know how or when to use it. Reminds me (not stylistically) of Jermaine Taylor.
Oh and you have to mention Ernie Shavers if you talk about heavyweight power!
