Re: Defination of GREATNESS
I think one factor is whether a boxer tries to find new challenges, always better himself.
Some great boxers fall short in this particular department, for example Mayweather Jr. is great, but he seems to have passed on a few significant challenges.
A guy like Mosely passes with flying colors. He always seemed to try and fight the best available, no matter what division he was in.
Re: Defination of GREATNESS
Although it may seem silly, I think a 'loss' is vital to true greatness as it gives you the opportunity to avenge the loss, take part in a trilogy, and it improves the status of your rival.
Re: Defination of GREATNESS
How is any man held up as great?
We measure the greatness of a man by the affect he has on society. In boxing it's the boxing society. He becomes the role model everyone wants to emulate. Not just his success, but how he achieved success. We are inspired.
When someone is truely great we all know it!
Re: Defination of GREATNESS
Greatness IMO should be determined on how good you are.
Re: Defination of GREATNESS
Greatness is too difficult to define as we all have opinions on fighters that vary from fan to fan!
For Instance...
Ali is considered a Great and is adored by most of the boxing fraternity,not only for his boxing ability,but for his personality and the public persona he portrayed..
Where as..
All I see is a racist,draft dodging fucker that shit on Frazier when he was the only one who put out a hand to help him and stabbed him in his back....I see a Great Boxer,but a Cunt of a man!
Its all in your're own perspective!
Re: Defination of GREATNESS
Good isn't GREAT though...If you know what I mean. That's why GREAT should only be added against the elite and many factors should be addressed before adding the TAG GREAT to the very FEW....MUHAMMED ALI.......MARGIN HAGLER.....or Azumah Nelson......its difficult but who do you put in that category?
Otley
Re: Defination of GREATNESS
Quote:
Originally Posted by
mofo2
Greatness is too difficult to define as we all have opinions on fighters that vary from fan to fan!
For Instance...
Ali is considered a Great and is adored by most of the boxing fraternity,not only for his boxing ability,but for his personality and the public persona he portrayed..
Where as..
All I see is a racist,draft dodging fucker that shit on Frazier when he was the only one who put out a hand to help him and stabbed him in his back....I see a Great Boxer,but a Cunt of a man!
Its all in your're own perspective!
I was sursprised when they choose Ali to light the '96 Olympic flame. A very good boxer, not that great of a person. IMO.
Re: Defination of GREATNESS
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Otley
Good isn't GREAT though...If you know what I mean. That's why GREAT should only be added against the elite and many factors should be addressed before adding the TAG GREAT to the very FEW....MUHAMMED ALI.......MARGIN HAGLER.....or Azumah Nelson......its difficult but who do you put in that category?
Otley
I would have to say Dick Tiger.
Re: Defination of GREATNESS
Lot of variables but to me greatness can at times be based on more than skills alone.When believed to be the best,is willing to face best,adversity and big odds with zero guarantee of success...inside and outside of the ring.One that does not 'settle' but strives to improve,maximizes advantages & never losses belief in abilities or skill set and makes no excuses. And when facing defeat,can be honest and respectful but.....all the while studying mistakes and clamoring for the next opportunity to prove self.
Re: Defination of GREATNESS
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Otley
I would like to hear from saddo fans what your defination of Greatness is?
To me a GREAT Champion determines how a Champ carries himself , how many top fighters he fought, winning a fight he was losing, how he came back defeat and how a champion gave back to his neighbourhood.
I wonder what Champions come into these categories and will be interested on what your thoughts are.
I reckon with these points in mind there would only be an handful of Champs who really do come into the status has GREAT CHAMP.
Hope to hear from you all soon
Otley
Why does that even matter? What he does or says outside the ring shouldn't determine anything
Re: Defination of GREATNESS
defination ? You mean like the US and South Africa?
Re: Defination of GREATNESS
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Taeth
Greatness IMO should be determined on how good you are.
Shouldn't it be determined by how great you are? I mean how good you are would only determine goodness. hmm.
Re: Defination of GREATNESS
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Violent Demise
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Otley
I would like to hear from saddo fans what your defination of Greatness is?
To me a GREAT Champion determines how a Champ carries himself , how many top fighters he fought, winning a fight he was losing, how he came back defeat and how a champion gave back to his neighbourhood.
I wonder what Champions come into these categories and will be interested on what your thoughts are.
I reckon with these points in mind there would only be an handful of Champs who really do come into the status has GREAT CHAMP.
Hope to hear from you all soon
Otley
Why does that even matter? What he does or says outside the ring shouldn't determine anything
Would have to agree dependant on how you are measuring Great, do you mean as an all round athelte and person or just as a boxer.If just a boxer then it's based in the ring. How does he cope with a knockdown or defeat does he take new challenges by moving weight for big fights or take on all comers.These sorts of things determine a great fighter.
All of the above for Great in terms of all round as a fighter and person, what do they give back , do they live a clean life and treat others with respect.
overall Ali, doesn't come up to scratch, he wasn't a nice person even when he found religion, Sonny Liston wasn't nice either, but both are GREAT in terms of boxing.the list could go on.
GREAT all round, would be they guys like McGuigan who seem like decent well balanced people, Jim Watt ...........
Depends on whether or not you simply care outside of boxing, I still enjoy watching Tyson, doesn't take away from the fact I dislike him as a person.
Re: Defination of GREATNESS
Quote:
Originally Posted by
boozeboxer
defination ? You mean like the US and South Africa?
:lol:
I sware booze, you are one funny fucker.
Re: Defination of GREATNESS
GREATNESS is doing something that not many fighters have done.
so many fighters have won championship belts. but how many have defended it 10 or maybe 20 times?
Winning fights that you are suppose to lose.
Winng titles in multiple divisions
Re: Defination of GREATNESS
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Violent Demise
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Otley
I would like to hear from saddo fans what your defination of Greatness is?
To me a GREAT Champion determines how a Champ carries himself , how many top fighters he fought, winning a fight he was losing, how he came back defeat and how a champion gave back to his neighbourhood.
I wonder what Champions come into these categories and will be interested on what your thoughts are.
I reckon with these points in mind there would only be an handful of Champs who really do come into the status has GREAT CHAMP.
Hope to hear from you all soon
Otley
Why does that even matter? What he does or says outside the ring shouldn't determine anything
Example: IMO, Hatton was a fighter that achieved great success, but his example outside the ring is not one that coaches, trainers, and the like would want to use for young prospects on how to care for your body.
Re: Defination of GREATNESS
Well all i can say is that greatness to me is all about what happens when you get in those ropes and nothing elese matters what so ever to me. Evander Holyfeild i think is one of the greatest to ever step foot in th ring is he a saint outside the ring the 12 kids with all different moms and the not paying for them say maybe he needs some work. But when it comes to boxing the man has greatness in spades if that answers the question on what we as poster consider great well at least what i do.
Re: Defination of GREATNESS
"Definition of Greatness" as summed up by Fenster..........
"Sporting a Rats Tail and beating Zab Judah = Greatness"
FACT
;)
Re: Defination of GREATNESS
Ok maybe break it down a bit
How many champs have come back from the brink of defeat and or lost his title and won it back from the same person who beat him.....at the moment my mind at a blank but here is a small list below -
Lennox Lewis lost to Rahman but won it back again in great style in the return
Jorge Castro was losing every second of every round against John David Jackson but kept on and knocked Jackson out in the 9th round
Evander Holyfield lost and won his title back from Riddick Bowe.......but lost again in the trilogy....does this make Bowe and Holyfield both great....sure Holyfields great cause he proved it time and time again....Bowe unfortunatley will probably go down in history has an underachiever who never fought Lennox Lewis. Lennox Lewis will possibly be remembered has a GREAT cause he fought all top competition and reveresed all defeats
Im picking on the heavyweights but there are others like Azumah Nelson who was just has GREAT when you think of what he did and came back
Adios
Otley
Re: Defination of GREATNESS
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CGM
I think one factor is whether a boxer tries to find new challenges, always better himself.
Some great boxers fall short in this particular department, for example Mayweather Jr. is great, but he seems to have passed on a few significant challenges.
A guy like Mosely passes with flying colors. He always seemed to try and fight the best available, no matter what division he was in.
But Mosley has never avenged a loss. If you go by the original definition does he fit?
Personally, greatness is determined solely by what one does in the ring. Ali was a complete jerk when it came to promotion, but who would deny him the status of greatness? I would throw Lewis, Holyfield and Hopkins in there. Maybe some others, but I need a little time to think about it.
