Lewis-Tyson, Prime For Prime, Who Wins?

I think this is an interesting fight because I think that the Lennox that fought Frank Bruno, gets KOd, but I also think that the Tyson that fought Tony Tucker could come up short too. I think at their best though, It would start a lot like Lewis-Mercer with Lewis trying to box, but Tyson keeping him under constant pressure and offbalance, Mikes explosiveness would be the difference though and I think after being behind early, the tide would turn in Tysons favor. I think Tyson stops him in 8 with the scorecards pretty even.

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Originally Posted by BoomBoom

I think this is an interesting fight because I think that the Lennox that fought Frank Bruno, gets KOd, but I also think that the Tyson that fought Tony Tucker could come up short too. I think at their best though, It would start a lot like Lewis-Mercer with Lewis trying to box, but Tyson keeping him under constant pressure and offbalance, Mikes explosiveness would be the difference though and I think after being behind early, the tide would turn in Tysons favor. I think Tyson stops him in 8 with the scorecards pretty even.

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I'll probably be in the minority, but I'm going with Tyson KO. If McCall and Rahman can do it, Tyson could've done it

Tyson does it without even inhaling for breath. Lewis could not have dealt with him in the least. Might have taken a few rounds but once the chin is checked, it's chin check out time.

I don't want to sound like a twat but use the fucking search function, you will find lots to read on a prime Lewis and a prime Tyson going at it.

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Originally Posted by Kel

I don't want to sound like a twat but use the fucking search function, you will find lots to read on a prime Lewis and a prime Tyson going at it.

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I never get tired of talking about it :cool:

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Originally Posted by BIG H

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Originally Posted by Kel

I don't want to sound like a twat but use the fucking search function, you will find lots to read on a prime Lewis and a prime Tyson going at it.

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I never get tired of talking about it :cool:

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Agreed. It's always interesting to see how far revisionism has swayed the current group of posters. :rolleyes:

Lewis gets better every year whilst Tyson goes down. Utter baloney!

I though of that after the fact Kel, ive got the flu and head isnt very clear right now. Im f@ckin loopy at the moment, but its a topic that popped into my head so i posted it. Thats all ;)

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Originally Posted by miles

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Originally Posted by BIG H

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Originally Posted by Kel

I don't want to sound like a twat but use the fucking search function, you will find lots to read on a prime Lewis and a prime Tyson going at it.

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I never get tired of talking about it :cool:

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Agreed. It's always interesting to see how far revisionism has swayed the current group of posters. :rolleyes:

Lewis gets better every year whilst Tyson goes down. Utter baloney!

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I agree, with both men long retired people have a different view on the fight cause emotions are cooled down and things are taken more a face value.

People remeber the Tyson that fought Holyfield, Lewis Williams and McBride, not the one that destroyed Spinks in 93 seconds

I think Tyson would win but on points. Lewis would not have taken Tyson lightly as he did in his two defeats but Lewis was very cautious and would have survived to lose on points.

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Originally Posted by BIG H

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Originally Posted by Kel

I don't want to sound like a twat but use the fucking search function, you will find lots to read on a prime Lewis and a prime Tyson going at it.

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I never get tired of talking about it :cool:

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Oh, what the hell.........an early Tyson beats an early Lewis and a late Lewis beats a late Tyson.

Right, I'm off for a shite

*grabs paper*

OK Prime for Prime would go down about the way the actual match went down. Tyson would be in it for the first half of the fight and then fade because Lewis was a lot bigger and he was just all around a better boxer.

Lennox Lewis COULD have had an off night and got KO'd but I am thinking if they fought 100 times Lennox could easily take 70 fights off of Mike.

Lennox and Evander just had Mike's number...the fights vs Rudduck and Bruno were actual FIGHTS, the fights vs Lennox and Evander were not even close, Tyson got dominated in both fights and I highly doubt a Prime Tyson would have done much different

Holyfield v Cooper and Lewis v Mercer were actual fights too.

It's a question that can't really be answered in fairness. There is cases for Tyson ko'ing him and there is a case for Lewis frustrating the life out of him....I will say tho...

There isn't anybody on Tyson's 'prime' resume that is majorly impressive. The manor in which he won the fights might have been but i think a lot of people glorify his 'prime' because the reality may be that when he stepped up, he lost. Therefore it's easier to say 'he's past his prime'. Sometimes the fact that you are facing far better fighters (than you are used to facing) who also happen to be in their prime can sometimes give the illusion that you're not quite in your prime anymore - given that you haven't performed so well against them.

I just feel that it's too difficult to fully justify his prime being around the time he first became champion because he was beating name fighters who were past their best or solid-looking fighters with padded records or at least resumes that appear better until you actually look at how their resume is compiled.

He was a beast and of course there is the option of saying 'Tyson by KO' no matter who his prime vs prime opponent is, because he had the power and the speed to land.....but at the same time you have to remember that the chances of landing those sort of punches severly diminish when you actually fight an elite fighter.....like Holyfield or Lewis.

Prime Tyson would scare the life out of the prime Lewis.

During his prime, pre-Buster Douglas, Tyson preyed on them big guys. He had difficulty versus scrappers and crafty/slick big heavyweights. I do not see Lewis as such, and if Lewis was knocked out by a "Rahman" just like that, imagine what Tyson with his "imagined" aura of invincibilty, would have done to him.

Tyson, easy KO.

Alot of people will probaly disagree ,I think Lewis stood a good chance of koing a prime Tyson.Lewis had a great jab and followed it up with a right uppercut he could catch Tyson on the way in and hurt him.If Lewis survived the first 4 rounds i would favour Lewis to wear him down and fustrate the hell out of Mike.

I've seen all of their fights with exception of the Sims fight for Tyson and the Garber fight for Lennox. Neither was televised I believe (If anyone has them then please Upload them)

I watched both fighters careers from the early stages, Lewis from the beginning. Tyson's once he started to make a name for himself before becoming champion.

I intruth never liked Mike when he was champion but over the years have realised and recognised what he brought to the sport and he was huge for us. The man was phenomenal as a fighter - he wasn't though unbeatable in his prime years.

Lennox is my favourite fighter of all time - I doubt I will support anyother fighter the same in my lifetime. The mans ability was remarkable - he adapted to his opponents and made relatively tough fights look comfortable.

Anyway - Who wins? Lennox and the difference is adaptability - Lennox had it and Tyson didn't. If Tyson can't bulldoze Lennox out of there he can't do anything else and would get outboxed. Lewis was a superb ring general and would have controlled the fight.

I think a huge advantage would be Lewis mentality,Lewis could get gritty when hurt,very confident.In that category,I think he blows Tyson out of the water.Lewis could be too relaxed in spots,and got blasted for it, but Tyson would have him on springs,and staying sharp with threat of KO.Tyson could be stung and for a second would fall into that tucked glove,stand straight,bob-bob and then come in....rinse repeat.Instinct, name association as well as the fact that Lewis looked like a bug on the windshield with McCall and Rahman...right away says that Lewis gets clipped and KO'd from an onrushing Tyson coming underneath his reach,killing body.....But I'm swaying towards Lewis to stay on point,keep a disciplined hard jab and get Tyson hurt midway/or late for a tko.

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Originally Posted by miles

Tyson does it without even inhaling for breath. Lewis could not have dealt with him in the least. Might have taken a few rounds but once the chin is checked, it's chin check out time.

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James Tillis had a suspect chin yet his size, movement, jab, gave an almost prime Mike Tyson fits ;)

I will be on the unpopular side, I think Lewis could win; Most of Tyson's opponents were shit scared of him and lost long before entering the Ring. Lewis isn't exactly that type plus, he has the worst style ever for Tyson; Long, powerful with an excellent jab to break the rhythm and ... clench when too close. I think he would have had a good chance to pull it with the bell around his waist.

Tysons biggest flaw imo is that he couldnt deal with speed himself. most of the guys he beat easily were slow to bring there punches back, and Tyson had no problem getting underneath a slow jab, right hand, or a wide hook. Tillis showed that a fast, solid jab was the way to beat Tyson. Lewis had the right punch to beat Tyson, no doubt, but It would be a case of how he dealt with the pressure of Mike and if he could weather the storms.

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Originally Posted by BoomBoom

Tysons biggest flaw imo is that he couldnt deal with speed himself. most of the guys he beat easily were slow to bring there punches back, and Tyson had no problem getting underneath a slow jab, right hand, or a wide hook. Tillis showed that a fast, solid jab was the way to beat Tyson. Lewis had the right punch to beat Tyson, no doubt, but It would be a case of how he dealt with the pressure of Mike and if he could weather the storms.

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James Tillis was a poor mans version of Larry Holmes or Muhammad Ali, he had good movement and some good boxing skills. But he did have a suspect chin and even more suspect stamina.

He said he changed his routine for the Mike Tyson fight, regarding his diet and ETC. And that did seem to make a difference, because he was trading with Mike Tyson in the final seconds of the 10th round. And it seemed like he could of gone the full 12 rounds.

I actually think the fight was quite close and its a shame James Tillis, done his trademark wild swinging left hook and got caught with a counter shot while being off balance. Because the 4th round was one of his best rounds until that moment.

I think that fight proved Mike Tyson would of been beaten by the likes of Larry Holmes, Lennox Lewis, Muhammad Ali. Because Mike Tyson was almost in his prime then. Because he did win the title in the same year he fought James Tillis.

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Originally Posted by ICB

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Originally Posted by BoomBoom

Tysons biggest flaw imo is that he couldnt deal with speed himself. most of the guys he beat easily were slow to bring there punches back, and Tyson had no problem getting underneath a slow jab, right hand, or a wide hook. Tillis showed that a fast, solid jab was the way to beat Tyson. Lewis had the right punch to beat Tyson, no doubt, but It would be a case of how he dealt with the pressure of Mike and if he could weather the storms.

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James Tillis was a poor mans version of Larry Holmes or Muhammad Ali, he had good movement and some good boxing skills. But he did have a suspect chin and even more suspect stamina.

He said he changed his routine for the Mike Tyson fight, regarding his diet and ETC. And that did seem to make a difference, because he was trading with Mike Tyson in the final seconds of the 10th round. And it seemed like he could of gone the full 12 rounds.

I actually think the fight was quite close and its a shame James Tillis, done his trademark wild swinging left hook and got caught with a counter shot while being off balance. Because the 4th round was one of his best rounds until that moment.

I think that fight proved Mike Tyson would of been beaten by the likes of Larry Holmes, Lennox Lewis, Muhammad Ali. Because Mike Tyson was almost in his prime then. Because he did win the title in the same year he fought James Tillis.

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I cant argue with that. Tillis did come closer than anyone else to a winnable fight vs Mike or at least a draw. I think I had it 6-4 for Tyson.

You are reading way too much from the Tillis fight, he did have an ear infection and it was a bad night. Lewis had trouble with Mercer and Holyfield the second time. It happens.

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Originally Posted by KananKrus

Prime Tyson would scare the life out of the prime Lewis.

During his prime, pre-Buster Douglas, Tyson preyed on them big guys. He had difficulty versus scrappers and crafty/slick big heavyweights. I do not see Lewis as such, and if Lewis was knocked out by a "Rahman" just like that, imagine what Tyson with his "imagined" aura of invincibilty, would have done to him.

Tyson, easy KO.

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So his prime lasted til he was 23? Then because he lost it was decided he was past his prime?

This is what makes me laugh about people going over the top for Tyson. It's not like even burnt himself out as an amateur.

You not think it's the fact that as he aged he fought tougher opposition and that resulted in him not looking so formidable?

If Oliver McCall having a breakdown right infront of him didn't scare him, Iron Mike aint got no hope in hell. ;D

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Originally Posted by BoomBoom

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Originally Posted by ICB

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Originally Posted by BoomBoom

Tysons biggest flaw imo is that he couldnt deal with speed himself. most of the guys he beat easily were slow to bring there punches back, and Tyson had no problem getting underneath a slow jab, right hand, or a wide hook. Tillis showed that a fast, solid jab was the way to beat Tyson. Lewis had the right punch to beat Tyson, no doubt, but It would be a case of how he dealt with the pressure of Mike and if he could weather the storms.

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James Tillis was a poor mans version of Larry Holmes or Muhammad Ali, he had good movement and some good boxing skills. But he did have a suspect chin and even more suspect stamina.

He said he changed his routine for the Mike Tyson fight, regarding his diet and ETC. And that did seem to make a difference, because he was trading with Mike Tyson in the final seconds of the 10th round. And it seemed like he could of gone the full 12 rounds.

I actually think the fight was quite close and its a shame James Tillis, done his trademark wild swinging left hook and got caught with a counter shot while being off balance. Because the 4th round was one of his best rounds until that moment.

I think that fight proved Mike Tyson would of been beaten by the likes of Larry Holmes, Lennox Lewis, Muhammad Ali. Because Mike Tyson was almost in his prime then. Because he did win the title in the same year he fought James Tillis.

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I cant argue with that. Tillis did come closer than anyone else to a winnable fight vs Mike or at least a draw. I think I had it 6-4 for Tyson.

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Yea i had the same score aswell its the 4th round that hurt James Tillis, regarding the scoring because he was winning that round easily. And that was probably his best round and he hurt Mike Tyson with some body shots if i remember rightly.

But he got dropped because he threw an amateurish wild left hook, and payed the price rightly but if he wouldn't of thrown that sloppy left hook. I think it may of been a draw i think people forget about this fight, it was actually quite close regarding the scoring.

And Tony Tucker himself was beating Mike Tyson, until he broke his right hand and went into a defensive shell. If i remember rightly i thought he won 3 out of the first 5 rounds, and i had him winning the last round which made my scoring 116-112.

But imagine if Tony Tucker hadn't broke his right hand could he have beaten Mike Tyson ? and he's one of the only few men who managed to rock a prime Mike Tyson aswell. But credit to Mike Tyson he took that uppercut very well. It was a hell of shot and he actually got lifted off his feet aswell, so that shows you Mike Tyson had a pretty good chin it was just his heart. Which was his downfall.

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Originally Posted by Master

You are reading way too much from the Tillis fight, he did have an ear infection and it was a bad night. Lewis had trouble with Mercer and Holyfield the second time. It happens.

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Lewis also had a slow start vs Frank Bruno. But vs Mercer and Holyfield, those guys were very good BOXERS not that Mike wasn't but Holyfield is cagey as hell even then and Mercer #1 was a top amateur boxer and #2 had a hell of a chin and #3 Had a very good jab that gave Lewis fits.

I just think looking at the STYLE of let's say Tony Tucker and seeing how he fought Tyson it compares better than how Lewis fought vs Holyfield and Mercer.

"So his prime lasted til he was 23? Then because he lost it was decided he was past his prime?"

The loss to Buster Douglas was an abyss for Mike Tyson that he was never able to crawl out of. He lost his shield of invincibilty.

After the Douglas affair, every heavyweight in the boxing world had their sights on Mike for the money. The "scare", the "loss inevitabilty", and the fear for life and limb is no longer! They knew that there is a chink in Mike's armor, he was brought down, he will again be with the right game plan. While prior to, everyone was scared "sheetless", bar none!

Going over the top if you will, but to live in that era a fan as I was, is to understand this phenomena without trepidation, without hesitation.

In reality even before the Douglas fight, when Tyson unwittingly shed all the boxing people in his contingent, and hob-knobbed with SOB's,
was the beginning of his fall in boxing. Even before his loss to Buster Douglas in Tokyo!

Yes, in answer to the above... Mike lost his prime at 23. If at all was his age in that fight.

The Tyson of 1987 KOs Lewis inside 5 rounds, never really understood the praise Lewis gets heaped upon him, he was as slow as a sloth in a South American rain forest. Tyson would have smashed him before 'slowcoach' could get out of the way. If McCall and Rahman could KO Lewis then i see no problem for a prime Tyson!

Lewis schooled Tyson in his prime in sparring. Lewis schooled Tyson and KO'd him out of his prime. Question answered.

a prime tyson murders lewis in the 1st few rounds imo

Nobody beats Tyson in his prime. :box3:Not even Rocky Balboa. ;)

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Originally Posted by Kel

I don't want to sound like a twat but use the fucking search function, you will find lots to read on a prime Lewis and a prime Tyson going at it.

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Yep thought the same thing soon as I saw the thread.


For the record,a Lewis who has trained right and has respect for his opponent beats most ATG,including bully boy Tyson.

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Originally Posted by Lyle

OK Prime for Prime would go down about the way the actual match went down. Tyson would be in it for the first half of the fight and then fade because Lewis was a lot bigger and he was just all around a better boxer.

Lennox Lewis COULD have had an off night and got KO'd but I am thinking if they fought 100 times Lennox could easily take 70 fights off of Mike.

Lennox and Evander just had Mike's number...the fights vs Rudduck and Bruno were actual FIGHTS, the fights vs Lennox and Evander were not even close, Tyson got dominated in both fights and I highly doubt a Prime Tyson would have done much different

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There is something in what you say. I don't know about 70%, but if Lewis boxes smart, keeps busy, and doesn't make any stupid mistakes, maybe he keeps Tyson at bay. Maybe.

I just know that Tyson had trouble with guys who could box (Evander Holyfield, Lennox Lewis, Buster Douglas) and tall guys with reach and a good jab (Lennox Lewis, Buster Douglas). I think Lennox Lewis in his Prime would be too smart, too big, and too strong for Tyson.

I think Lewis and Holyfield would have ALWAYS beaten Tyson no matter when they fought.

Of course I think Douglas, McBride, and Williams all caught Mike at really bad times or in McBride and Williams' cases at the tail end of his career. But I do think Buster Douglas' fight vs Tyson was a BRILLIANT fight on his part

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Originally Posted by ono

It's a question that can't really be answered in fairness. There is cases for Tyson ko'ing him and there is a case for Lewis frustrating the life out of him....I will say tho...

There isn't anybody on Tyson's 'prime' resume that is majorly impressive. The manor in which he won the fights might have been but i think a lot of people glorify his 'prime' because the reality may be that when he stepped up, he lost. Therefore it's easier to say 'he's past his prime'. Sometimes the fact that you are facing far better fighters (than you are used to facing) who also happen to be in their prime can sometimes give the illusion that you're not quite in your prime anymore - given that you haven't performed so well against them.

I just feel that it's too difficult to fully justify his prime being around the time he first became champion because he was beating name fighters who were past their best or solid-looking fighters with padded records or at least resumes that appear better until you actually look at how their resume is compiled.

He was a beast and of course there is the option of saying 'Tyson by KO' no matter who his prime vs prime opponent is, because he had the power and the speed to land.....but at the same time you have to remember that the chances of landing those sort of punches severly diminish when you actually fight an elite fighter.....like Holyfield or Lewis.

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I've not replied to any message before although I have looked at this forum for a long while but I couldn't walk past this post as I think it's spot on. The prime vs. prime stuff is bunk. Tyson lost because he was never ever top rank - he looked amazing but he looked amazing against a poor set of opposition and he lost when he ran into someone more determined. He never triumphed in aversity or overcame a great opponent. He didn't pass the test when it came, and despite his highlight reel career is not a great heavyweight.

Tyson v Lewis primes would in my opinon turn out as the first round of their actual fight did. Tyson on the offensive fast and aggesive. Lewis is a great fighter and i think would beat some of the all time greats, but the weaker ones, by weaker i dont mean weaker in that context but ones who did not hold devastating power e.g Ali i think would have been given fits by Lewis but i think would have beaten Tyson who in turn i think would knock out Lewis Mid rounds.

Lewis in my opinon couldnt fight a true rough inside fight which i think tyson could have made it, look at the holyfield fights, Lewis was hurt whenever they traded blow for blow. And if he refused to trade and was cautious mike owuld just eat him up gradully.

Lennox & Mike sparred together as kids when with Cus D'mato. Its said that Lennox always had Mike's #. Lennox would TKO Mike inside 10

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Originally Posted by PrettyBoyFloyd712

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Originally Posted by oakleyno1

Tyson v Lewis primes would in my opinon turn out as the first round of their actual fight did. Tyson on the offensive fast and aggesive. Lewis is a great fighter and i think would beat some of the all time greats, but the weaker ones, by weaker i dont mean weaker in that context but ones who did not hold devastating power e.g Ali i think would have been given fits by Lewis but i think would have beaten Tyson who in turn i think would knock out Lewis Mid rounds.

Lewis in my opinon couldnt fight a true rough inside fight which i think tyson could have made it, look at the holyfield fights, Lewis was hurt whenever they traded blow for blow. And if he refused to trade and was cautious mike owuld just eat him up gradully.

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i seriously dont know why lewis gets any respect on this forum, he never beat anyone remotely good, he beat a tyson who was 10/12 years past his prime. he was heavy weight champ when heavy weight division was at its lowest point in history. trust me i know what im talking about when it comes to boxing. ive studied and watched the sport for my whole life. and im an ametuer boxer too. so i know wat im talkin about

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That color font suits your dumb ass

What really makes me smile when reading some of these posts is the young kids declaring " I have more Boxing Knowledge than anyone else on this board" & " I'm a boxing expert" LOL
I've been in and around boxing for over 30 years and I certainly dont claim to be an expert . I can remember the great trainer Eddie (Papa Smurf) Futch saying to a reporter that had called Eddie a boxing expert "I'm not an expert I'm still learning the game" Eddie was 82 yrs old at the time