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http://www.saddoboxing.com/wp-admin/I want to thank all of you for the comments and observations you sent in on last week’s column. I am sure this week’s column will spark some debate.
Also, I would love to get your opinion on the “mythical” fight that is highlighted on one of the video pieces below from The Al Bernstein Boxing Channel.
Take a look at the What If…feature on an Evander Holyfield-Joe Frazier f... Full Boxing Article here...
I'd go with Frazier by either late round TKO or decision. Bert Cooper dropped Evander and briefly had him in La La land and that was when Evander was at the apex of his career, and Cooper was just a poor man's Frazier. I think it would be action packed with both fighters having their moments but Evander didn't have the brutal power Foreman did to just take Frazier out.
That's a great match up and very hard to call. I tend to lean towards Frazier, but then I think of the Holyfield that fought Bowe and the first Tyson fight and I'm not so sure :-\
15 rounder or 12 Al?
i think as great as Holyfields heart and condition is Frazier would wear him down over the fight and maybe win on points in a 12 rounder but would get the stoppage on a 15 rounder.
Totally take your point on the uppercut playing a good role in the fight for Evander against the smaller guy but that would leave him wide open for the best hook in heavyweight history.
Smoking all the way IMO on this Legend Vs Legend encounter ;)
I can't watch the video right now.
If you were of similar size then I don't think it was really a great idea to stand in front of either guy and that's what they would both do here making it a pretty obvious war.
I guess you could say it could come down to who would break each other's will but I'm not sure either guy could.
and as much as people talk about Holyfield needing to watch out for Joe's hooks the same could be said for Evander's uppercuts and his step back counter right.
Basically I'm sitting on the fence ;D Well I do think it would be a best of three type thing where one guy wins two but they're all close. I might go against what probably will be the grain and say Evander, a few more options maybe.
It would almost be identical to watching Holyfield's fight with Qawi. The first one anyway. Frazier might be a little too big. Very tough to say. Great question.
I think Evander is the better boxer but Frazier was just so damned determined...I think he'd win on points as both were durable heavyweights and although Holyfield may have weighed more, Frazier had the better punch.
:feedme: niiiice.One of those times when Holyfiels is facing a likewise weight,and could even come in with the weight advantage.I think Fraziers best chance would be to draw him into a shoot out but over all Holyfield moved better,I think he punched in combo faster,and I believe had his own somewhat underrated left hook....not a fight ender but he could hurt you badly with it and if he keeps his head and game plan might just take a descision....or even a late TKO,Joe leaps in with harsh left hook and Holyfields counter straight right,while not shot for shot,would be nasty and available to him also. I think Holyfield would hit him more ans turn him.Cooper was squat and clipped Evander badly,but that quick recovery and brutal uppercut-hook onslaught he brougt would be there again here.Great fight.
I agree with this - it's a really tough fight to call. If you put a gun to my head and made me pick, I'd probably go with Frazier, but both men shared a lot of the same intangible qualities.Quote:
Originally Posted by OumaFan
The mobile Holyfield of yesteryear , beats Frazier to a pulp with the jab / cross / upercut , and stops him in 11.
Joe Frazier had an iron will he would take punishment to deliver punishment...Holyfield might have been mobile but hell Frazier caught up with ALI more than his fair share of times.
Holyfield didn't have the 1 power punch that guys like Lennox and Tyson had....Frazier had that and he had the motor to be one of the very few fighters to outwork Holyfield
Yes that is true but also lets not forget Evander Holyfield, had to change opponents twice prior to the Bert Cooper fight. His orignal opponent was Mike Tyson then that Italian boxer i forgot his name who got his nose broken by Ray Mercer.Quote:
Originally Posted by match
Which led Evander Holyfield to go a bit stale, i could easily comeback and say Evander Holyfield beat a better version of Joe Frazier in Mike Tyson minus the heart. Yes Mike Tyson wasn't in his peak but neither was Evander Holyfield.
And he had to go through quite alot to beat Mike Tyson, it wasn't like Mike Tyson was that poor it was Evander Holyfield was that good with brilliant tactics.
Its a hard one to call Joe Frazier for certain had more power and more workrate, but Evander Holyfield had the advantage in speed and technique.
But Joe Frazier in the 1st fight against Muhammad Ali was a machine, who looked liked nothing could stop him. I don't think any version of Evander Holyfield at Heavyweight could deny that version of Joe Frazier, just not enough fire power to stop Joe Frazier IMO.
I think Joe Frazier is WAAAAAAY better than Tyson...sorry Tyson fans but he never showed half the heart Frazier did!
I would personally pick Frazier to win a hard fought decision over Holyfield.
It would be one hell of a matchup.
Interesting stuff! It's a match-up I never even thought about. I would say although Holyfield fought and beat aggressive fighters like Tyson, Frazier was like the 'Terminator' and never stopped unless you stopped him and I don't think Holyfield could have done that. 12 rounds I think Evander could pull it off if he boxed a very smart fight. 15 Rounds I think Frazier stops him late in the 14th or 15th.
I always remember what Frazier did to Jimmy Ellis. When He lost Yance Durham He wasnt the same Fighter in my Eyes. If at the time Ellis couldnt Hit Him, dont think Holyfield would my 2 cents.
Frazier wins either on points or late stoppage in a brutal fight. Holyfield was a great fighter but against opposition that wasn't in the same league as the greats of the 1970s that Frazier fought.
I would say Joe Frazier would win. Like ICB said, he fought a seamingly unbeatable opponent in Muhammad Ali and won (in their first fight). Then again he was destroyed brutally by George Foreman so who knows :confused:
Both guys at their best would have been an amazing contest!!!
I'd have to slightly favor Frazier... what a war it would have been!!!
First of all i would like to say that Joe Frazier is an underrated heavyweight boxing champion, he got blasted away by George Foreman twice and this really is the only time he was convincingly beaten.
He fought Ali 3 times for 1 win and two close losses, the thriller in manilla could easily have seen Ali quit at the same time. Both guys were completely done at the fights end.
IMO Frazier would catch Evander with that famous left hook mid fight, Frazier would get inside of Holyfield something Tyson did not know how to do, Tyson was all power and he only ever had one fight strategy and that was to blast away and if he connected then well and good. Holyfield was always going to be a problem for Tyson. Smokin' Joe on the other hand was a wiley customer, bobbing and weaving, hard to hit and he would get on the inside and come up with that left hook that was one of the most devastating in boxing. Sure, you could catch Joe coming in, but would Evander have the power to stop him? I don't think so.
Its hard to say. I dont think Joe Fraizer was at his 'best' for too long in his career so im not going to use the Ali fight as an indication of Fraizer's chances.
Holyfield had a good hustle inside and just outside at that awkward distance. And lets not forget that Fraizer for all his will, was so one handed, i think Holyfield had the right mix of guts, steele and technique to stay with Fraizer and out score him.
Holyfield would have a chance, but recalling the Frazier that demolished Quarry, and gave Ali three servings of hell, I'd have to go with "Smoking Joe" as being more than what Holyfield could handle.
Really tough one to call but would have been a brilliant fight.
Prime Holyfield would have stayed on the outside and boxed. He would have mixed it when he wanted too or had to. He did have a tendency to engage too much like he did with Quawi or Bowe and that may have cost him the victory in a tough points decision to a prime Frazier that beat Ali.
If anyone goes anyone else but Frazier:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: he'd murder Evander!:cool:
nice one Al. Personally would pick Joe in an easier fight than most think.
I think outside of Evander's uppercut the only thing that would worry me about picking Joe is that he started fights slowly and this would give Evander time to win rounds, but if we're talking a 15 round fight, that's plenty of time for Joe to regain the lead.
If anyone could outwork and out hustle Evander it's Joe Frazier
One of the hardest pickems on here in a long time.
12 rounder and Evander doesn't try to stand and bang I think he can win enough rounds to squeak out a SD. I think Evander's ability to combine great counterpunching and also good inside work could earn him an early lead that would carry him to a win. As most said already I think in a 15 rounder Joe's chopping body shots would slow down Evander and earn a UD or late stoppage.
Personally, I don't think that Evander, even at its peak, could deal with the power and size of smoking Joe, he could perhaps make it to the final bell but I am almost certain that he wouldn't go with the win.
I see your argument, however, I would say this: 1) Big George was a monster in itself and I don't think that the real deal would have done much better against him and second, Perhaps that the Smoking Joe-Foreman fight was a combining of a bad day at the office for Joe and the destructive capacities of George combined together.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocky Balboa
Hell there is no shame in getting whupped by Big George, Evander had a 40+ year old Foreman and Big George gave Holyfield all he could handle.
The uppercut would give Joe trouble, but I don't think that Evander can stop him. Once Frazier's in his fight mode, you'd need Foreman's sledgehammers to bring him down.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyle
This is a good one, man that would have been one to watch. I am a die hard Frazier fan, but I think Holyfield is the worst matchup for Joe. I think of the Bonavena fight, add some fierce counters to a Bonavena type chin. Also that uppercut that was mentioned, look at Qawi(who fights similar to Fraziers style)and Bert Cooper fights. I am gonna go ahead and say Holyfield knocks Joe Frazier out late rounds.:o
I think Holyfield wins a UD, no question. Joe did best against rangy boxers or guys that were straight up and down. Holyfield was neither. He used angles, could strand and trade with anyone and usually get the best of it, he had speed to match Joe, and he could make adjustments a little better imo. The peek a boo stance doesnt work well with a hustling boxer puncher like Holyfield. His 3-4 punch combos in close, primarily the uppercut, win Holy the fight. Joe would roll into a lot of punishment.
Could not argue with both of you, it could go Holyfield's way. I can see that too.
Well have to say Holyfeild although i am a big fan of his so i might be bias. I think Holyfeilds speed and power added with chin and rough tatics wins. I think he would stop Frazier on cuts because he tended to cut alot. Then you take that and add to the fact Holyfeild would be landing alot.
Yeah Holyfield was able to get away with headbutting guys. He was good at disgusing rough tactics which is a qulaity in itself.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr140
Also I belive he is a better class fighter than Joe all round. Evander could keep his chin down, offset Joes rolling head movement with his bouncing and eventually force him back like he did Tyson.
Lewis pointed out that in the Bowe fights Holyfield always answers a left hook with his own left hook and I think Joe would leave himself open to that shot alot and it would take its toll. Joe would leap in with a left hook. Evander would keep his right arm tucked against his chin and time his own left hook.
Holyfield wins by late ref stoppage in 10 rounds.
That's a very dangerous thing.....hooking with Joe Frazier
I think regardless, Frazier outworks him beats him up to the body & either takes a comfortable decision or takes him out around the 11th or 12th round. I think you either had to have an anvil like punch like George Foreman (only other fighters on this level for me were Joe Louis & Earnie Shavers) or you had to be as quick as Ali to just keep hitting him & trying to get out of the way, and even Ali struggled with that against Frazier. Holyfield was neither of those two things & I think Frazier has too much for him
Joe wins this 9 out of 10 times.
Evander scores a bit more than most would believe, and would have a shot at a points race if he was still on his feet by the 15th.
Likely as not though, after 8 rounds a banged up Holyfield, just prior to pissing blood, gets put to sleet from a ferocious left.