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I don't.
I have no problem with somebody giving him the fight.
But when the fight was his he turned off the gas in 10-12.
Dude's just got an issue, he threw the Baldomir fight away, he could have done more against Margarito, he made the Guttierez fight tougher than it should have been, etc..
Technically he's a hell of a fighter. Just don't understand his mindset.
Kind of, in a way. But imo, Cotto deserve the win.
Alright. Pacquiao-Cotto. Bring it!!!!
I will never be a Miguel Cotto fan, its not his fault he dosent score the fight but gimme a gotdam break.
Yea he fought on despite a cut but a trillion other fighters have. Cotto loss and got his ass beat end of
Unfortunately for him after another brutal fight he is probably going to be shot going forward
FLOYD WOULD MURDER COTTO!!!!!
Clottey won the 10th.Quote:
Originally Posted by OumaFan
And look at it this way as much as you complain that Clottey didn't turn it up and he robbed himself realize that even if he'd won the 11th and the 12th he was sitting on a draw
if Clottey had won the last 2 rounds
It would have been a draw. It would have been even on one, Clottey on the other, Cotto on the third.
So Regardless of what happened by the end of the 10th a round which Clottey won Cotto already had a draw in the bag and yes for THAT reason I feel sorry for Clottey. Because he wasn't gonna win regardless.
Pacquiao vs Cotto is ON!
But in the end SPEED KILLS! Pacquiao will win!
IMO Cotto pulled out the win by winning the last 2 rnds, one thing that should really sum this fight up, Cotto had a horrible gash over his brow from the 3rd on and still made it a close fight although not being able to see out the right eye for the vast majority of the fightQuote:
Originally Posted by OumaFan
You guys are copying and pasting your posts too much ;D
Majesty I responded to your post in that other thread.
Clottey is better than I thought he was, very good fighter, but the mental problems have never been more obvious.
Edit-the 10th is debatable, but that's not even really my point.
I like Cotto.Class guy.But he looked rough.That cut seems like it will be a future factor.Clottey,Margarito both just too much size and has taken toll.Likewise and I hate to sayQuote:
Originally Posted by JT Rock
I think Manny beats him :o:peeker:.But Im on the 6th 7th Corona so whooo knows
No, I don't feel bad for him. He had Cotto wounded from the 3rd and should have taken advantage of it. Instead of trying to finish strong he wasn't throwing and instead complained about borderline low blows and hits to the back of the head after he turned his back.
He seems like one of those fighters who never does quite enough and then blames everyone for it.
The cards were screwy, but Cotto did enough anyway.
I responded to your post too.Quote:
Originally Posted by OumaFan
I also said that according to Clottey winning the 10th round in order to salvage a draw would mean that by the end of the 9th round a time before Clottey started 'giving the fight away' Clottey was already so behind on the scorecards he wasn't winning without a knockout, And thats bullshit
Hell no I don't feel bad for him, he lost. He lost by a round or two. He blew he had a chance to close it in the "Championship rounds" but he didn't. He threw a couple of punches when Cotto couldn't see and Cotto did enough to win those rounds. Clottey only has himself to blame. He won all of 7-9 when he was throwing punches. He stopped so he lost plain and simple.
he'd have lost the fight anyway. He needed the 10th, 11th, and 12th for a DRAW. That means by the end of the 9th where Clottey was dominating he still needed a knockout to win. Can you blame Clottey for that? So the "championship rounds" didn't even matter unless he knocked out Cotto.Quote:
Originally Posted by "The L.A. Earthquake"
I second what majesty said, doesn't really matter what he did in the 11th and 12th he wasn't getting the win so feel bad in that way for him. Cotto should have lost but not a terrible decision really except that it was a terrible decision in the way that it was scored it seems. I mean seems like there is always one judge that needs their eyes checked, 116-111 so only gave the rounds to clottey which he completely dominated. Also cotto seems like a dirty fighter to me say what you want but zab was gettin hit with low blows, and tackled clottey, hit behind the head, a low blow, only so many accidentals before you go "hmmm maybe he just makes em look acidental". Whatever though would have liked to see clottey win since I tend to prefer the underdogs.
I agree. ;DQuote:
Originally Posted by MajestyI responded to your post too.Quote:
Originally Posted by OumaFan
I also said that according to Clottey winning the 10th round in order to salvage a draw would mean that by the end of the 9th round a time before Clottey started 'giving the fight away' Clottey was already so behind on the scorecards he wasn't winning without a knockout, And thats bullshit
Cotto seemed to be there for the taking starting in round (7 I think?) the round after Cotto dominated. Clottey just couldnt keep the pressure on and than close the show. Obviously (or maybe not) there is a reason Clottey didnt dominate Cotto in the last few rounds. Cotto can punch and hit Clottey to the body....Great fight, I had Cotto winning 114-113. I would definitley watch a rematch which wont happen.
Clottey has no one but himself to blame, you need to finish strong and he didnt even with the advantage from the cut....
On a side note Larry Merchant should be a one man show. He is better at commentating and Interviewing than Max could ever be. I think the reason Max has a sore throat is his interview with cotto went longer than expected :splurt:
Yes in a way because he will be avoided again for quite sometime IMO, which he doesn't deserve because he did fight his heart out, as for the fight itself ? not at all as i've said time and time again, i question Joshua Clottey's mentality i really do.
Oumafan you have gave the exact examples i have been saying for weeks, he gave away a win against Carlos Baldomir, he lost heart quickly on only an injured hand against Antonio Margarito.
And he almost got himself DQ'ed against Richard Gutierrez, and as you said he made it tougher than it should of been.
I think Joshua Clottey just falls short of being elite, for all the examples above.
He had Miguel Cotto in trouble and the fight was his, yet he totally let his foot off the gas. And was outboxed in the last 2 rounds, he has no one but himself to blame for not pressing the action when he should have.
He wouldn't have won a decision anyway. Even after dominating Cotto the first 9 rounds he was already so behind that he needed a knockout to win. You can't blame Clottey for thatQuote:
Originally Posted by ICB
He would be hell if he could punch and he had a better temperament. He already is difficult for just about anybody. PW would be a nightmare for him but besides that's he's difficult.
Yes I do blame him, because he stopped throwing punches. He had Cotto hurt a few times and then he let him off the hook. A knockout or even a knockdown wasn't out of the question if Clottey threw his hands a bit more. He didn't and he blew it for that he has nobody to blame, but himself.Quote:
Originally Posted by Majestyhe'd have lost the fight anyway. He needed the 10th, 11th, and 12th for a DRAW. That means by the end of the 9th where Clottey was dominating he still needed a knockout to win. Can you blame Clottey for that? So the "championship rounds" didn't even matter unless he knocked out Cotto.Quote:
Originally Posted by "The L.A. Earthquake"
Can't blame Joshua Clottey for that ? the way your making it sound, is that Joshua Clottey knew the exact scorecards during the fight.Quote:
Originally Posted by MajestyHe wouldn't have won a decision anyway. Even after dominating Cotto the first 9 rounds he was already so behind that he needed a knockout to win. You can't blame Clottey for thatQuote:
Originally Posted by ICB
Joshua Clottey gave the fight away in the last 2 roudns end of, forgetting what the 2 judges had it.
Joshua Clottey let his foot off the gas and he should of pressed the advantage he had.
I never at any point see Joshua Clottey "dominating" Miguel Cotto. I see him take tactical advantage between the 7th and 9th rounds. By landing good right hands and right uppercuts.
The 10th round was debatable and in the last two rounds for whatever reason, he took his foot off the gas and was outboxed end of.
of the first 9 rounds how many would you have given to Cotto?Quote:
Originally Posted by ICBCan't blame Joshua Clottey for that ? the way your making it sound, is that Joshua Clottey knew the exact scorecards during the fight.Quote:
Originally Posted by MajestyHe wouldn't have won a decision anyway. Even after dominating Cotto the first 9 rounds he was already so behind that he needed a knockout to win. You can't blame Clottey for thatQuote:
Originally Posted by ICB
Joshua Clottey gave the fight away in the last 2 roudns end of, forgetting what the 2 judges had it.
Joshua Clottey let his foot off the gas and he should of pressed the advantage he had.
I never at any point see Joshua Clottey "dominating" Miguel Cotto. I see him take tactical advantage between the 7th and 9th rounds. By landing good right hands and right uppercuts.
The 10th round was debatable and in the last two rounds for whatever reason, he took his foot off the gas and was outboxed end of.
By the end of 9 Cotto was already ahead to the point of Clottey needing a knockout to win. So its not worth complaining that Clottey didn't do enough or that he gave the last 2 rounds away. Even if he'd won the next 4 rounds he'd have only gotten a draw.
you won the bet fair enough, but you drinking the kool aid if you dont think 116-111 was not BS. lets put that into perspective.Quote:
Originally Posted by ICBCan't blame Joshua Clottey for that ? the way your making it sound, is that Joshua Clottey knew the exact scorecards during the fight.Quote:
Originally Posted by MajestyHe wouldn't have won a decision anyway. Even after dominating Cotto the first 9 rounds he was already so behind that he needed a knockout to win. You can't blame Clottey for thatQuote:
Originally Posted by ICB
Joshua Clottey gave the fight away in the last 2 roudns end of, forgetting what the 2 judges had it.
Joshua Clottey let his foot off the gas and he should of pressed the advantage he had.
I never at any point see Joshua Clottey "dominating" Miguel Cotto. I see him take tactical advantage between the 7th and 9th rounds. By landing good right hands and right uppercuts.
The 10th round was debatable and in the last two rounds for whatever reason, he took his foot off the gas and was outboxed end of.
Clottey could have kd cotto 2x in addition to landing the cleaner more effective blows that rounded out his all arount accuracy. the majority of Cotto's punches hit GLOVES
Basically that moron judge was taking a sh#t for 5 rounds and was scoring the oh's and ah's from the toilet
How can you say Clottey was dominating the first 9 rounds? He won 6 and lost three, with one of them a knockdown. Then for me he lost the last three for just being lazy, hence 114-113 Cotto. If he's have carried on like he had been doing, he would have won hands down on my card but he didn't. A rematch would seem the sensible thing, but since when has common sense been involved in boxing decisions?
that was your scorecard. According to the official scorecards after 9 Cotto was well ahead that he wouldn't lose a decision. That's the problem . Cotto on the scorecards was AHEAD after 9, so much so that he had a decision in the bag with a draw being the worst, and that's the problem.Quote:
Originally Posted by rowlesy
A draw would have been appropriate. Clottey didnt lose the fight imo. He was the better fighter tonight. His defence was great, his punches beautiful. But I dont feel that Cotto lost either. He overcame tremendous adversity and showed a champions heart coming back and to win the final two rounds.As far as scoring the rounds, I had Clottey ahead by one point going into the final round, thus a draw. If I was Clottey I would be upset too. For the record, Cotto winning by a point would be the only score for him that could be justified. Great fight, great fighters. Would love to see a rematch.
Sorry Majesty but thats a pretty bad way of thinking IMO, its not like Joshua Clottey knew what the scorecards were during the fight. He lost the fight simply because he didn't show a real champion's desire to win end of.Quote:
Originally Posted by Majestyof the first 9 rounds how many would you have given to Cotto?Quote:
Originally Posted by ICBCan't blame Joshua Clottey for that ? the way your making it sound, is that Joshua Clottey knew the exact scorecards during the fight.Quote:
Originally Posted by Majesty
Joshua Clottey gave the fight away in the last 2 roudns end of, forgetting what the 2 judges had it.
Joshua Clottey let his foot off the gas and he should of pressed the advantage he had.
I never at any point see Joshua Clottey "dominating" Miguel Cotto. I see him take tactical advantage between the 7th and 9th rounds. By landing good right hands and right uppercuts.
The 10th round was debatable and in the last two rounds for whatever reason, he took his foot off the gas and was outboxed end of.
By the end of 9 Cotto was already ahead to the point of Clottey needing a knockout to win. So its not worth complaining that Clottey didn't do enough or that he gave the last 2 rounds away. Even if he'd won the next 4 rounds he'd have only gotten a draw.
Yes 116-111 was a terrible score, but Joshua Clottey didn't know that, and even if he did know he couldn't win a decision.
Why didn't he try for the stoppage win ? why did he take his foot off the gas ? its nothing to do with the scoring. Its Joshua Clottey showing his mental flaws again which has shown up in the past aswell.
I wasn't actually scoring it RBR i will score it tomorrow or whenever i get a copy, but the impression i got was that Joshua Clottey. Was in a position to maybe score a knockdown.
Or really come on strong down the stretch, but he gave away that advantage and was simply outboxed. And thats really it when you think about it.
Fighters get Cut period, judging the fight on the merit of a fighter not quitting from a cut is stupid. Clottey landed the more telling, sharper and accurate blows.
NO
1. He was O.A. when Miguel shrugged him off, Cotto didnt even throw him:mad:
2. For a fighter who have somebody in front of him with a handicap as early as the 2nd round, I do not think Clottey did enough to be impressive.
3. Clottey again was O.A. everytime Miguel did a slight and unintentional infraction.
First time ever hearing this from Lamps...."good tackle from Cotto" ??? Not going for crutches like some others on this fight, But I dont think Ive ever heard a guy call "Good Tackle" on a guy :cwm13:
Cotto on the other hand showed and posseses the HEART of a WARRIOR, he never complained about the cut, he could O.A.'d his way to a win if they stopped the fight early because of the cut.
Strangely enough, I felt worse for Clottey prior to this fight. I have felt that he was one of, if not the, most avoided fighters in boxing and as such had not earned the paydays to which he was entitled. He earned the Cotto fight and IMO lost that fight by doing little to nothing in the championship rounds and not taking advantage of a one eyed fighter.
Yeah, I felt Clottey had the moment and the edge but didn't take advantage. It was a close fight and I felt the same the Cotto Mosley fight were it could of gone either way. The only difference being that Cotto's eye was a factor in this fight.
Both fighters showed excellent chins. They took some hard shots and the respect that each gave each other was apparent by the inactivity in spots.
Not a bit of pity from me... It was Clottey's fight to win but he let it go. Even though Cotto was battling that cut he didn't look that good.
Did anyone notice there was no ring weight announcement?
Perhaps they both weighed over 160 and the commission didn't want it broadcast?
I agree with Stewart when he said it was Cotto's flashiness that really made him won the fight although some rounds he won really belong to Clottey. It was Cotto's fighting spirit that made people impressed. Clottey pulled a couple of ala Cintron cry baby tactics which is why I dont really feel sorry for him.
I gotta agree with ICE.
Clottey did not know the scorecards but he did think he was well ahead if he thought he could take the last two rounds off. Whenever I thought he had Cotto in trouble, he never went in for the kill.
I said this in another thread but Clottey should've threw more right hands considering how bad Cotto's cut was. How he didn't take advantage of that is beyond me. Also, Clottey's uppercut was working too. Cotto doesn't defend against that punch all that well and Clottey didn't throw it as often as he should.
I didn't see the entire fight. I started watching at round 4 but I can't make a final decision until I see the first three.
Yea I feel kinda bad for him. :(
Nature shorted him in the heart and Balls dept.
I feel for Clottey, but I don't think a SD for Cotto is outrageous.
Still, the ref helped Clotty to his feet and pressured him into not quitting. If it were up to Clottey he would have squirmed around on on the canvas until they stopped it.
It's good to know the ref can help you to your feet if you slip.
Needed to keep his foot on the pedal didn't he... It's not good being in a close fight with one of HBO's goldenboys... especially when he's on a comeback.Quote:
Originally Posted by Youngblood
No way can you feel sorry for a "fighter" when the other fighter is badly cut "over" the left eye and can not see throughout the fight. Cotto was clearly bothered by the cut in every round and Clottey just doesn't throw enough. He is so unaggressive that I will never have any confidence in him against the top tier guys. Cotto would have boxed circles around Clottey without the cut. That cut was very bad and would have stopped the fight from continuing in many other fights but Clottey couldn't even take advantage of the obvious. He was even looking for easy ways out. Exaggerating the borderline lowblow effect, the back of the head weak punch, the slip when he fell after jumping on Cotto. Clottey is a B fighter. Lets keep it real. He lost to a badly cut Cotto from round 3 on. You can not have a fight given to you easier than that.
Ihaven't seen the fight yet, will give it a look, analyze the whole and let you know what I personally think and I will try to do so objectively.