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I was watching Jones - Tarver I for the first time today and the British commentators were talking about how a match between Jones and Tyson was in the works. They would have fought for the WBA belt Jones took from Ruiz. I had no idea this fight had ever even been discussed let alone almost made. After seeing what Tarver did to Jones in the second fight I'm glad it never happened.
Even though Tyson was past it at that point, I think it would have been another Spinks-Tyson outcome.
I don't know about the outcome. I think Roy had a tough time fighting Tarver because of him having to lose so much weight after taking the belt from Ruiz. Roy was straight up muscle at heavyweight and I could only imagine the toll it must've taken on him to drop the weight.
If Roy had stayed around that weight he would've been more comfortable. Add that with Tyson not being so stable upstairs, I think Roy would've had a better chance that some people would give him.
IMO it would be like any other Tyson fight against a big name. He can be outboxed but if he catches them, it would be all over.
I agree that it might have been a different proposition if Jones had never gone down to fight Tarver, but the Tyson fight (apparently) was to occur after the first Tarver fight, so Jones would have already dropped the weight and then regained it prior to the Tyson fight.Quote:
Originally Posted by C-Lo
Jones reflexes were deteriorating at that point and I think Tyson would've been able to catch him with something that would have stopped the fight.
If Jones had never moved down to fight Tarver and lost all that he had then i'd have picked him over Tyson at that point in Tysons career
With that type of fluctuation in weight, Jones may have been sluggish and taken out within 3.Quote:
Originally Posted by CFHI agree that it might have been a different proposition if Jones had never gone down to fight Tarver, but the Tyson fight (apparently) was to occur after the first Tarver fight, so Jones would have already dropped the weight and then regained it prior to the Tyson fight.Quote:
Originally Posted by C-Lo
Jones reflexes were deteriorating at that point and I think Tyson would've been able to catch him with something that would have stopped the fight.
Sorry mate but i think RJJ would of had a decent chance, this is the same Mike Tyson that was getting out boxed by Francois Botha. Until he found a lucky right hand, Mike Tyson at that point was for certain there for the taking.Quote:
Originally Posted by generalbulldog
Ruiz was a better fighter than tyson at that time, but Mike still had one punch power. Jones could outbox him but he would have to make it out of the fourth round first, and I cant see him taking a flush punch from Tyson and sticking to the gameplan after getting rattled. Even a washed up Tyson could still smell blood.
Ruiz seriously stunned Jones in the 1st round of their fight. Even as far gone as he was Tyson would have seriously f@cked him up.
Jones went into negotiations with both Tyson and Holyfield but neither fight went anywhere
I remember when this fight was being talked about and I remember people saying that this was going to be a 100 million dollar event. I really would have given Jones a real shot at beating Iron Mike with his speed and pot shots he probably would have frustrated Mike to the point of chair throwing and biting other parts of Jones anatomy. Tyson's last few years of fighting were throwing hooks and hoping for that 1 big bomb to land and I just think Jones would have been to good for that. If Jones could have got through the 1st round Tyson onslaught then it would have been all down hill from there. Jones by TKO win.
All Roy would have had to done was to stay away from Mike for 4 rounds and Tyson woulda sat on his butt and quit outta of exhaustion.Quote:
Originally Posted by C-Lo
Tyson didn't have his heart in boxing anymore at that stage.
Jones was full of hot air and shit;D
He ws also supposed to fight Douglas but backed out after his dad called it a stupid idea, he was also supposed to fight Holyfield and chickened out of that too.
In fact his pulling out of fights had Tarver draw a cartoon of Don King dragging Jones to the ring tied up to fight Ruiz because everyone thought Roy would pull out of that too.
Yeah and then Roy DOMINATED John Ruiz.Quote:
Originally Posted by ross
And beat Tarver in their first match by out gutting him down the stretch.
Roy dominated Ruiz?
Who hasnt, Toney did it better and so did Tua.
Roy never fought Tyson because Tyson had fast hands and a genuine big punch.
Mike would have loved the opportunity to whale away at Roy while he sat on the ropes and Mike wouldnt have been befuddled by Roys crap defence of putting earmuffs on and standing straight up, a nice uppercut would have launched Roy out the ring;)
Quote:
Originally Posted by ross
The douglass fight was mentioned after roy just got to LHW from 168, and it was possibly too early...The holyfield fight didn't happen because Holy lost to lennox, then ruiz beat holyfield. So he fought Ruiz who was a alphabet title holder, much smarter than fight lennox lewis...
the fact that you're suggesting Roy is a "chicken" for not fighting heavy's is flat out disliking for a great fighter. Roy started at 154, was still bascially too small for 174 but managed to stay there for most of his career.
Him being chicken for not fighting professional heavy's when he's 30+ pounds smaller than them probably the dumbest shit I've heard on here in a while. And since you mention Tarver, he gained all his muscle for a fucking movie, then came back down and was torn up by bernard hopkins a man smaller than him. And after the fight he clearly realized what Roy went through but still managed to beat his ass but Tarver couldn't bring himself to admit it on television because he knew it would take away his only claim to fame..his victories over Roy. At least Roy gained a HW title for putting his body through that..tarver just got exposed...
RJJ is one of my favorites but i also thought he took steroids, when he moved up to Heavyweight. He seemed to put on alot of weight so easily, and still have a body-fat percentage below 10 percent, which is a bit unreal without steroids in that amount of time.Quote:
Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweatherQuote:
Originally Posted by ross
The douglass fight was mentioned after roy just got to LHW from 168, and it was possibly too early...The holyfield fight didn't happen because Holy lost to lennox, then ruiz beat holyfield. So he fought Ruiz who was a alphabet title holder, much smarter than fight lennox lewis...
the fact that you're suggesting Roy is a "chicken" for not fighting heavy's is flat out disliking for a great fighter. Roy started at 154, was still bascially too small for 174 but managed to stay there for most of his career.
Him being chicken for not fighting professional heavy's when he's 30+ pounds smaller than them probably the dumbest shit I've heard on here in a while. And since you mention Tarver, he gained all his muscle for a fucking movie, then came back down and was torn up by bernard hopkins a man smaller than him. And after the fight he clearly realized what Roy went through but still managed to beat his ass but Tarver couldn't bring himself to admit it on television because he knew it would take away his only claim to fame..his victories over Roy. At least Roy gained a HW title for putting his body through that..tarver just got exposed...
Roy is a small man that walked around near his fighting weight. So any weight that he would put on would be muscle. He had mickey working with him for that fight..he only put on 19 pounds in six months. that's not that unbelievable considering that all he had to worry about about was working out. It's not like he had a day job or anything. I mean two a day workouts, and he didn't run as much in prep for that fight, that's easy for a professional athlete. 3 pounds a month.Quote:
Originally Posted by ICBRJJ is one of my favorites but i also thought he took steroids, when he moved up to Heavyweight. He seemed to put on alot of weight so easily, and still have a body-fat percentage below 10 percent, which is a bit unreal without steroids in that amount of time.Quote:
Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweatherQuote:
Originally Posted by ross
The douglass fight was mentioned after roy just got to LHW from 168, and it was possibly too early...The holyfield fight didn't happen because Holy lost to lennox, then ruiz beat holyfield. So he fought Ruiz who was a alphabet title holder, much smarter than fight lennox lewis...
the fact that you're suggesting Roy is a "chicken" for not fighting heavy's is flat out disliking for a great fighter. Roy started at 154, was still bascially too small for 174 but managed to stay there for most of his career.
Him being chicken for not fighting professional heavy's when he's 30+ pounds smaller than them probably the dumbest shit I've heard on here in a while. And since you mention Tarver, he gained all his muscle for a fucking movie, then came back down and was torn up by bernard hopkins a man smaller than him. And after the fight he clearly realized what Roy went through but still managed to beat his ass but Tarver couldn't bring himself to admit it on television because he knew it would take away his only claim to fame..his victories over Roy. At least Roy gained a HW title for putting his body through that..tarver just got exposed...
Steroids are so yesterday! It's all about HGH now!Quote:
Originally Posted by ICBRJJ is one of my favorites but i also thought he took steroids, when he moved up to Heavyweight. He seemed to put on alot of weight so easily, and still have a body-fat percentage below 10 percent, which is a bit unreal without steroids in that amount of time.Quote:
Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweatherQuote:
Originally Posted by ross
The douglass fight was mentioned after roy just got to LHW from 168, and it was possibly too early...The holyfield fight didn't happen because Holy lost to lennox, then ruiz beat holyfield. So he fought Ruiz who was a alphabet title holder, much smarter than fight lennox lewis...
the fact that you're suggesting Roy is a "chicken" for not fighting heavy's is flat out disliking for a great fighter. Roy started at 154, was still bascially too small for 174 but managed to stay there for most of his career.
Him being chicken for not fighting professional heavy's when he's 30+ pounds smaller than them probably the dumbest shit I've heard on here in a while. And since you mention Tarver, he gained all his muscle for a fucking movie, then came back down and was torn up by bernard hopkins a man smaller than him. And after the fight he clearly realized what Roy went through but still managed to beat his ass but Tarver couldn't bring himself to admit it on television because he knew it would take away his only claim to fame..his victories over Roy. At least Roy gained a HW title for putting his body through that..tarver just got exposed...
Botha was a 6'3, 16 1/2 stone natural heavyweight.Quote:
Originally Posted by ICBSorry mate but i think RJJ would of had a decent chance, this is the same Mike Tyson that was getting out boxed by Francois Botha. Until he found a lucky right hand, Mike Tyson at that point was for certain there for the taking.Quote:
Originally Posted by generalbulldog
Ruiz couldn't handle Roy because he's a non-punching, non-explosive, toilet, plodder. The opposite of - even a faded - Tyson. Roys punches would have been like pea shooter shots to Tyson. He'd have mown Roy down in one.
That's what Tyson was at that point. He only threw on the inside and stopped using his lateral movement to get close.Quote:
Originally Posted by FensterBotha was a 6'3, 16 1/2 stone natural heavyweight.Quote:
Originally Posted by ICBSorry mate but i think RJJ would of had a decent chance, this is the same Mike Tyson that was getting out boxed by Francois Botha. Until he found a lucky right hand, Mike Tyson at that point was for certain there for the taking.Quote:
Originally Posted by generalbulldog
Ruiz couldn't handle Roy because he's a non-punching, non-explosive, toilet, plodder. The opposite of - even a faded - Tyson. Roys punches would have been like pea shooter shots to Tyson. He'd have mown Roy down in one.
Not for one and half rounds he wasn't. He had Danny Williams rocking all over the shop and Etienne out in one.Quote:
Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweatherThat's what Tyson was at that point. He only threw on the inside and stopped using his lateral movement to get close.Quote:
Originally Posted by FensterBotha was a 6'3, 16 1/2 stone natural heavyweight.Quote:
Originally Posted by ICB
Ruiz couldn't handle Roy because he's a non-punching, non-explosive, toilet, plodder. The opposite of - even a faded - Tyson. Roys punches would have been like pea shooter shots to Tyson. He'd have mown Roy down in one.
That's the amount of time he'd need against little Roy.
Isn't that exactly what Francois Botha is ?Quote:
Originally Posted by FensterBotha was a 6'3, 16 1/2 stone natural heavyweight.Quote:
Originally Posted by ICBSorry mate but i think RJJ would of had a decent chance, this is the same Mike Tyson that was getting out boxed by Francois Botha. Until he found a lucky right hand, Mike Tyson at that point was for certain there for the taking.Quote:
Originally Posted by generalbulldog
Ruiz couldn't handle Roy because he's a non-punching, non-explosive, toliet plodder. The opposite of - even a faded - Tyson. Roys punches would have been like pea shooter shots to Tyson. He'd have mown Roy down in one.
He's not that bad.Quote:
Originally Posted by ICBIsn't that exactly what Francois Botha is ?Quote:
Originally Posted by FensterBotha was a 6'3, 16 1/2 stone natural heavyweight.Quote:
Originally Posted by ICB
Ruiz couldn't handle Roy because he's a non-punching, non-explosive, toliet plodder. The opposite of - even a faded - Tyson. Roys punches would have been like pea shooter shots to Tyson. He'd have mown Roy down in one.
Would Ruiz have been outboxing Tyson for 5 rounds? No chance.
At that time Tyson was crap, James Toney would have beaten him like he did Holyfield. Jones would have had to stay on the outside for 5 rounds and then he would have taken over. Tyson was a shell of a fighter.
RJJ wouldn't have fought tyson the same way, he would have moved ALOT more than he did against ruiz. Not to mention etienne was only there to get a check after all the crap tyson was pulling leading up to the fight. And Roy would destroy danny williams. Roy would have hit tyson with something hard and quick to make him respect his speed and power to calm the initial aggression, then pot shot him for 12 rounds. Tyson was done.Quote:
Originally Posted by FensterNot for one and half rounds he wasn't. He had Danny Williams rocking all over the shop and Etienne out in one.Quote:
Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweatherThat's what Tyson was at that point. He only threw on the inside and stopped using his lateral movement to get close.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
That's the amount of time he'd need against little Roy.
Although Tyson was a shell of a fighter the only people that did beat him were big heavy fighters who were leaning over Tyson and that is something Roy would not have been able to do.
that's a good point...but then tyson never had to chase anyone that can hit going backwards like rjj...tyson would have tired.Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
Yes maybe but he would not have tired as fast so maybe could have lost on points. If he landed he would decapitate Roy.Quote:
Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweatherthat's a good point...but then tyson never had to chase anyone that can hit going backwards like rjj...tyson would have tired.Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
Crazy if you ask me, RJJ would have got knocked out. Tyson had the speed to land a shot and it would have been game over for sure if he did.
Not in 2-3 rounds, which is all it would have taken.Quote:
Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweatherthat's a good point...but then tyson never had to chase anyone that can hit going backwards like rjj...tyson would have tired.Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
Who would you rather stand in front of with no foot movement, a shot Holyfield or a shot Tyson that youv been winding up for a couple of months;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
Thats if Mike wouldnt have been going through the courts for assaulting Toney, as shot as Mike would ever be, I dont think anyone would be stupid enough to talk shiit to his face outside the ring but then theres Toney, hed either proclaim his respect for Mike or try his luck.