-
Who has the better boxing future? Khan or Ortiz?
Both are prospects at 140. Both have had setback losses to their career, both have major weaknesses, Khan for his chin, Ortiz for his perceived lack of heart.
I go with Khan because he has a shrewd promoter in Warren who maneuvers him to have a title fight at 140 when Khan hasn't done anything to merit that opportunity. I can see Khan getting a decision against Kotelnik, vacates the belt at 140 to avoid the dangerous opponents, has a massive fight with Hatton and could possibly beat him, he gets another washed up good fighter on his resume and will continue to scam the general British public out of their money.
Ortiz on the other hand was happy go lucky with his attitude after the Maidana fight and was pissing off Oscar who is his promoter. If Oscar was a more shrewd promoter he would have gotten Ortiz a title fight with Kotelnik before this Maidana fight.
What do you thinkj?
-
Re: Who has the better boxing future? Khan or Ortiz?
ad go with khan hes got a better team behind him and is the better boxer imo a think in the next 2 or 3 years he could be top class but if he fights hatton soon he loses and bad.
-
Re: Who has the better boxing future? Khan or Ortiz?
khan .... he seems more protected by his promoters
-
Re: Who has the better boxing future? Khan or Ortiz?
Khan's shockingly poor punch resistance against Ortiz quite shocking lack of heart/bottle?
I'd say neither has a great future.. but Khan will certainly try to achieve more than Ortiz will.
-
Re: Who has the better boxing future? Khan or Ortiz?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Khan's shockingly poor punch resistance against Ortiz quite shocking lack of heart/bottle?
I'd say neither has a great future.. but Khan will certainly try to achieve more than Ortiz will.
Yeah tough one; but I'll take Khan who at least didn't all but quit on the spot after getting sparked. I've watched the Ortiz fiasco several times and you can't really up about a guy who seemingly all but said "I don't think I like getting punched this much, I quit". Khan might get ktfo alot but if managed right he could make a career; Ortiz can't make a career if he jets out the sport;D
-
Re: Who has the better boxing future? Khan or Ortiz?
Khan. I've heard Roach say he's targeting Morales as Khan's next opponent after Kotelnik. Khan is going to be protected, I imagine Golden Boy will throw Ortiz in the deep end again and hope he's learnt to swim this time.
-
Re: Who has the better boxing future? Khan or Ortiz?
I know I'm alone in this, but I feel they both have pretty good futures. If Khan can beat Kotelnik, then I'd go with him
-
Re: Who has the better boxing future? Khan or Ortiz?
You can fix heart, but you can't fix a chin.
-
Re: Who has the better boxing future? Khan or Ortiz?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dr. Steelhammer
You can fix heart, but you can't fix a chin.
a wouldnt agree with that a mean if ur a shit bag ull always be 1 imo but cant u toughen ur neck muscles up with weights witch would mean ur head wouldnt snap bak as much getting punch there for less chance of getting ko plus sparring with harder hitters would all help the chin
-
Re: Who has the better boxing future? Khan or Ortiz?
Wow I didn't know that Morales is a possible opponent for Khan.
What I see in Khans future is that he outpoints Kotelnik for the WBA belt, fights Morales at 140 then fights Hatton late in 2010 at which time Ricky will be 32 and even worse than right now, possibly fights Pacman in '12 when Pacman is 34 and doesn't have the reflexes or speed anymore and maybe a future fight with Mayweather in '13 when Floyd will be 36 and needs money and doesn't have the speed and reflexes anymore. Then Khan will pronounce that he beat so many top legends and will be known as one of the all time greats.
Khan has a bright future indeed, but he has to get past Kotlenick, which I think he should be able to. Warren is a shrewd man.
-
Re: Who has the better boxing future? Khan or Ortiz?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
bzkfn
Khan. I've heard Roach say he's targeting Morales as Khan's next opponent after Kotelnik. Khan is going to be protected, I imagine Golden Boy will throw Ortiz in the deep end again and hope he's learnt to swim this time.
Has anyone seen how big Morales is. That fight would be a joke. He's bigger than Hatton gets between fights and thats sayin somethin. Roach can be a very clever matchmaker i think.
I say that ortiz will have a bigger future. He's a good fighter and just needs to learn that he can't just blast everybody out of site. He needs a confidence boost IMO, help getting motivated, and a corner that don't suggest quitting or stopping the fight at the first opportunity.
If people with decent and upwards power land on Kahn, he's out of there no sweat man.
Ortiz should have taken his time with Maidana and he would have been fine i think. To be honest, I've just watched the Ortiz fight about 2 hours ago, inbetween the round before he quits his corner mention the idea of stoppin the fight two, poss three times. His trainer says something like "your not holdin your hands up, i'll stop the fight, do you want me to stop the fight?" Totally wrong pep talk or what, i mean, thats where the seed was sown for him to quit, bad corner work IMO, what were they thinkin atall.
-
Re: Who has the better boxing future? Khan or Ortiz?
Ortiz did the smart thing. He couldn't see out of either eye. He young and he'll live to fight another day. Khan would have never gotten from the fight hand Ortiz took in the first.
-
Re: Who has the better boxing future? Khan or Ortiz?
-
Re: Who has the better boxing future? Khan or Ortiz?
Heart is an illusion that boxing fans use as a reason to praise or diss a fighter. If a fighter quits on his stool he has no heart yet then they go on to have a war its all forgotten.
Vitali was called heartless, Wladimer was called heartless and unable to bend to pressure. All was forgotten when Vitali went tooth and nail with Lennox Lewis.
I agree with Ortiz that he shouldnt be taking punches like that, he is a boxer puncher, not a slugger, he has the boxing skills to not be dragged into wars like that. I think thats what he meant and i completely agree
-
Re: Who has the better boxing future? Khan or Ortiz?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dr. Steelhammer
You can fix heart, but you can't fix a chin.
How can you fix heart ?
-
Re: Who has the better boxing future? Khan or Ortiz?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
generalbulldog
Wow I didn't know that Morales is a possible opponent for Khan.
What I see in Khans future is that he outpoints Kotelnik for the WBA belt, fights Morales at 140 then fights Hatton late in 2010 at which time Ricky will be 32 and even worse than right now, possibly fights Pacman in '12 when Pacman is 34 and doesn't have the reflexes or speed anymore and maybe a future fight with Mayweather in '13 when Floyd will be 36 and needs money and doesn't have the speed and reflexes anymore. Then Khan will pronounce that he beat so many top legends and will be known as one of the all time greats.
Khan has a bright future indeed, but he has to get past Kotlenick, which I think he should be able to. Warren is a shrewd man.
I hope your joking.
-
Re: Who has the better boxing future? Khan or Ortiz?
I think people are overstating Khan's chin's. If you look at Khan and Ortiz its clear who the more gifted one is. Khan is more technical and much quicker. Khan is more athletic. I thought Ortiz was the more durable one but now that is very questionable. To me Ortiz has shown me nothing to agree with the hype. At least Khan has the boxing skills that show promise. Ortiz looks ordinary to me and very predictable. He is not very fast, strong, technical, athletic, or durable. He is about average or a cut above in all those categories. He obviously doesn't have a granite chin so he will have to do something different. Unless he models his game off BHop, a very rare breed, I don't think he will be better than Khan and I just can't see why DLH has such high hopes for Ortiz. He thinks Ortiz will be beyond elite. I don't see him even reaching elite status. Those waters are a lot deeper than what Maidana is at this point. So he better do a lot of digging deep in his time off. Khan may reach elite. He at least has the better tools to do so.
-
Re: Who has the better boxing future? Khan or Ortiz?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Majesty
Heart is an illusion that boxing fans use as a reason to praise or diss a fighter. If a fighter quits on his stool he has no heart yet then they go on to have a war its all forgotten.
Vitali was called heartless, Wladimer was called heartless and unable to bend to pressure. All was forgotten when Vitali went tooth and nail with Lennox Lewis.
I agree with Ortiz that he shouldnt be taking punches like that, he is a boxer puncher, not a slugger, he has the boxing skills to not be dragged into wars like that. I think thats what he meant and i completely agree
If he had the boxing skills to change the fight he lacked the bottle/heart to try. So either way he quit through a lack of bottle/heart.
He admitted he quit because he got scared of the punishment.
I'm sure there are dozens of examples of fighters quitting but they try and disguise it and certainly don't admit it afterwards.
Good for Ortiz for not bullshitting, i guess.
-
Re: Who has the better boxing future? Khan or Ortiz?
Ortiz. He can be dropped and he'll get up. Con can't. That punch in the first round that dropped Ortiz. Con don't get up from that
-
Re: Who has the better boxing future? Khan or Ortiz?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Violent Demise
Ortiz. He can be dropped and he'll get up. Con can't. That punch in the first round that dropped Ortiz. Con don't get up from that
Wouldn't bet on it.
-
Re: Who has the better boxing future? Khan or Ortiz?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Violent Demise
Ortiz. He can be dropped and he'll get up. Con can't. That punch in the first round that dropped Ortiz. Con don't get up from that
Wouldn't bet on it.
He's gotten up so far. Can't say the same about Con
-
Re: Who has the better boxing future? Khan or Ortiz?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Violent Demise
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Violent Demise
Ortiz. He can be dropped and he'll get up. Con can't. That punch in the first round that dropped Ortiz. Con don't get up from that
Wouldn't bet on it.
He's gotten up so far. Can't say the same about Con
Khan got up too actually.
Now Ortiz has shown he can be scared out of a fight expect him to sit out any future floorings. That's if he even gets in the ring, of course.
-
Re: Who has the better boxing future? Khan or Ortiz?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Violent Demise
He's gotten up so far. Can't say the same about Con
Lol.. Limond knocked him down and he got up. Gomez knocked him down and he got up, and he took a beating in a round and survived it without quitting. Not to mention he (Barely) got up from those first bombs from Prescott. Now.. the only time he has been knocked out, those punches would of easily knocked out Ortiz too.
But.. it's a tough arguement. Hopefully we see a Khan vs Ortiz matchup made which will easily put this arguement to bed. But I really do think Khan's chin is underestimated at times.. I mean Limond is a light puncher yeah, but Khan was young and not very muscular at the time. His neck was thin and as most of you know it's the neck which absorbs most of the impact of a punch... so in return to Dr.Steelhammers post, yes a weak chin can be fixed.. you simply bulk up the muscle on your neck. I hope Kotelnik lands some big punches on Khan and he takes them, although I wouldn't be suprised if Khan took flush shots from Tyson and stayed on his feet, and STILL got called glass jaw.
-
Re: Who has the better boxing future? Khan or Ortiz?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JoeyUK
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Violent Demise
He's gotten up so far. Can't say the same about Con
Lol.. Limond knocked him down and he got up. Gomez knocked him down and he got up, and he took a beating in a round and survived it without quitting. Not to mention he (Barely) got up from those first bombs from Prescott. Now.. the only time he has been knocked out, those punches would of easily knocked out Ortiz too.
But.. it's a tough arguement. Hopefully we see a Khan vs Ortiz matchup made which will easily put this arguement to bed. But I really do think Khan's chin is underestimated at times.. I mean Limond is a light puncher yeah, but Khan was young and not very muscular at the time. His neck was thin and as most of you know it's the neck which absorbs most of the impact of a punch... so in return to Dr.Steelhammers post, yes a weak chin can be fixed.. you simply bulk up the muscle on your neck. I hope Kotelnik lands some big punches on Khan and he takes them, although I wouldn't be suprised if Khan took flush shots from Tyson and stayed on his feet, and STILL got called glass jaw.
The no-punching Limond and the shot to hell Gomez had no buisness knocking him down. The punch that dropped Ortiz in the first round. Con would not get up from that continue fighting
-
Re: Who has the better boxing future? Khan or Ortiz?
Agreed Willie Limond has only stopped one opponent with a winning record, and he had Amir Khan worringly all over the place. And Michael Gomez was moving up in weight and is a shot fighter, plus he is only a decent puncher, and he not only put Amir Khan down he hurt him badly with a body shot.
Marcos Rene Maidana is a true puncher, 25 KO's out of 26 wins, the brutal right hand shot i think it was, that put Victor Ortiz heavily down would of layed out Amir Khan. I actually think if they were to ever fight, i could see another Breidis Prescott happening.
