Two of the best skilled Cruiserweights of all time, and James Toney being one of my all time favorites. I pick a healthy James Toney by SD.
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Two of the best skilled Cruiserweights of all time, and James Toney being one of my all time favorites. I pick a healthy James Toney by SD.
I think that Holyfield was an entirely different animal at cruiser.....one thing that would be pronounced is the experience points they were at in respected careers.Holyfield beginning and Toney nearing a conclussion,over all.
But I'd go with Holyfield on attrition and workrate.Toney could be hot and cold at various points and liked to be relaxed on his terms.At cruiser he looked like a wrecking crew against a used up Adalpho Washington,Garbey and a great fight with Jirov but I dont think Holyfield waits to fall into his traps.Nice close fight...would have been great.
Evander Holyfield easy and probably by KO. Seems a bit far fetched for a KO but I still think Toney is one of the most overrated fighter's of all time.
Wow, that is a tough one.
That is a real toughie Ice...
JT is my all time fave. Holyfield is the Greatest Cruiserweight of all time.
All i can say is great thread, i'll answer a bit later lol...
Totally disagree James Toney was an excellent fighter, who moved all the way up to Heavyweight and done very well. Its just he was lazy so he had a few struggles and losses, that he probably shouldn't have. But talent wise he is on par with Floyd Mayweather Jr. The fact that he was able to compete with big Heavyweight's on just his talent alone, speaks volumes to me.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Fightfan
Also you don't beat fighters like.
Evander Holyfield
Michael Nunn
Mike McCallum x2
Vassiliy Jirov
Iran Barkley
Charles Williams
Tim Littles
Doug DeWitt
Tony Thorton
Reggie Johnson
Merqui Sosa
Being overrated.
And based on that response, how can i NOT pick JFAT :cool:
I love the term JFAT ;D
Evander was the greatest cruiserweight of all time. I think he beats Toney convincingly
Toney looked fat above lightheavy and Ive seen much lesser men than a prime Holyfuield beat him so it would be 1 sided ownage I think. Toney was good but would get beaten up in that 1
Couldn't have said it better myself.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spicoli
On face value you'd immediately go for Holy, but you bring up a great point concerning which points in thier careers, where a crafty Toney makes it tough. Holy has the work rate and determination to pull it out the bag on a UD IMO.Quote:
Originally Posted by matchCouldn't have said it better myself.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spicoli
I think Holyfield wins by a close, but clear decision, probably 8 to 4. Toney had great natural talent, for me not on the same level as the likes of Whitaker, Jones or Mayweather, but not that far off, however, I thought above LHW, he started looking very paunchy. Holyfield was something special at CW & I think he would have had too much for Toney, although no way does he KO him, Toney has a brilliant chin.
IMO Holyfield is one of, if not the greatest Cruiserweight Champion of all times, and Toney even though what he did in his comeback from the Jirove fight all the way till the Peter fights was impressive, he didn't dominate a guy (Jirov) who was clearly no on tier with Holyfield at Cruiserweight, it would probably have been a competitive fight but i see Holyfield stopping him late, he didn't have too much power at HW, but at Cruiser he had dynamite in his gloves
Vassiliy Jirov was a very good fighter though, he was an Olympic Gold Medalist with a 31-0 record. And i don't think Evander Holyfield would of dominated him either, but still James Toney fought a masterful fight on the inside. And i didn't think it was really that close points wise.Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMorales
I don't think Evander Holyfield was that much worse as a Heavyweight, remember you have to take into account the opposition at Cruiserweight. Im not saying James Toney fought really good opposition either, but outside of Dwight Muhammad Qawi x2 who was better at Light Heavyweight IMO, and a past his prime Carlos De Leon, Evander Holyfield's record was modest.
And again i don't feel he was really a big puncher at Cruiserweight either, he had fast hands and he was very accurate. But i think saying he had dynamite in both hands is overrating his power somewhat.
And theres no way he would stop James Toney either, James Toney not only has a great chin. He has a great defense and remember Evander Holyfield, was still a novice at Cruiserweight. So im not sure if that version of Evander Holyfield would have enough, to deal with the slippery/skilled James Toney.
I go with Evander by SD, not that I can not see JT winning but he is so up and down when it comes to conditioning..
At CW Holyfield was a beast, I see Toney getting gassed by the 8th and spends the rest of the bout trying to avoid big bombs
Unless you're called Roy Jones Junior ??? ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by ICBTotally disagree James Toney was an excellent fighter, who moved all the way up to Heavyweight and done very well. Its just he was lazy so he had a few struggles and losses, that he probably shouldn't have. But talent wise he is on par with Floyd Mayweather Jr. The fact that he was able to compete with big Heavyweight's on just his talent alone, speaks volumes to me.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Fightfan
Also you don't beat fighters like.
Evander Holyfield
Michael Nunn
Mike McCallum x2
Vassiliy Jirov
Iran Barkley
Charles Williams
Tim Littles
Doug DeWitt
Tony Thorton
Reggie Johnson
Merqui Sosa
Being overrated.
Holyfield by wide unanimous decision..,..Holyfield was a beast at cruiser and I believe Tony would have felt his power to the head and body and would have been slowed down and pushed around.......I dont have a question who would have won.....
Toney could have managed to deal with Holyfield IMO taking the fight in a close-ish points win. No doubt his post fight interview would have him eating the microphone.
holyfield is the ultimate cruiserweight he would wear toney down with relentless attacks and as good as toney was holyfield i think would win by stoppage in the 11th or 12th
I'm amazed that people could think that Toney could be stopped by Holyfield. Toney is one of the hardest fighters I have ever seen. He only really gets put down by being off balance and that is once every blue moon.
Toney has one of the great chins in boxing as far as I'm concerned. He has had his flaws at certain points in his career, but that chin has never really been one of them.
I don't know about him being stopped myself but he would be forced into exchanges and very likely put on his heels backing straight.Can see Holyfields hand speed and in and out volume really catching up to Toney as he tried to maintain his stance in the pocket.I really think Holyfield would take his comfort zone and force Toney and neutralize his shoulder rolls and sneaky short shots at Cruiser.Quote:
Originally Posted by miles
Infact Evander Holyfield is the one that has been shaken up, many times in his career. I've only ever seen James Toney hurt by the looping left hand, from Reggie Johnson that put him down. But if anyone thinks Evander Holyfield would stop James Toney, just watch the last 30 seconds of the Vassiliy Jirov fight.Quote:
Originally Posted by miles
He takes one of the hardest/flushest, punches i've ever seen and he walks right through it, and then he puts Vassiliy Jirov on the seat of his pants. And are people forgetting not only has James Toney got one of the ATG great chins, he is one of the best defensive fighters of all time.
I can see it being a close fight. Even if Toney wins, he would definitely give rounds away due to being being forced to work more than he wants to. I just struggle to see a Toney at his best and in the zone being too fazed by Holyfield. Though, on the other side of the coin, you sometimes have the sloppy Toney who really made work hard for himself. It's a very interesting matchup and both fighters suited the weight at far different stages in their career.Quote:
Originally Posted by SpicoliI don't know about him being stopped myself but he would be forced into exchanges and very likely put on his heels backing straight.Can see Holyfields hand speed and in and out volume really catching up to Toney as he tried to maintain his stance in the pocket.I really think Holyfield would take his comfort zone and force Toney and neutralize his shoulder rolls and sneaky short shots at Cruiser.Quote:
Originally Posted by miles
Holyfield easy, as good as Toney can be, Evander was way better, one of the greats and certainly the greatest at this weight.
Isn't greatest Cruiser ever like being the smartest retard? Sure, the greatest... but it's at Cruiser!
Quote:
Originally Posted by ICB
Great question to ponder mate, A young energetic Holyfield versus an old ring savvy veteran. If Toney was totally focused like the Jirov fight, at those stages of their careers, then I would have to go with Toney by decision.
I'm going with James by Unanimous decision in this 1. I think his defensive counter style would have given Evander a problem at anytime of their HOF careers.
Yeah cool thread, it's a lot different than posing the question of who would win at their peaks, as they were pretty much on opposite ends respectively when they were at CW... Holyfield was still somewhat raw and wouldn't have seen anything like the ring savvy of Toney, but obviously you don't run into anything resembling a young Holyfield all to often.. I think Toney would have taken it most likely, hard to elaborate I just see Holyfields tenacity and athletecism working against him for a large part as he pressed forward.
First off whichever one passes the drug test
probly Holyfield by decision workrate wins it
holyfield squeaks a tight decision for me
That is cruel, they have been clean most of their fights.Quote:
Originally Posted by Truth