Old Super-Middleweight/Middleweight/Light Middleweight Threads

Removed from 160 ratings & enters pool at 168

Put into the pool at 160 & 168

Remains ranked at 160 & enters the pool at 168

Enters 168 when he fights there

I voted for him to be removed from 160 and put in the pool at 160. With his weight problems I don't see any way he comes back down in weight, especially considering he's signed on for at least three fights at SMW. I will wish Arum would've put Pavlik in with him at 160, because that fight has all the making of a classic.

PS. This board fucking rules.

AA has stated if I recall correctly he will be unable to make 160 anymore.

He should go in the pool a 168. He's never fighting at 160 again.

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Originally Posted by CFH

I voted for him to be removed from 160 and put in the pool at 160. With his weight problems I don't see any way he comes back down in weight, especially considering he's signed on for at least three fights at SMW. I will wish Arum would've put Pavlik in with him at 160, because that fight has all the making of a classic.

PS. This board fucking rules.

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I know he's signed on for these 168 fights but I'm sure there's an out clause if a bigger money fight comes along. I could see him returning to 160 if the Pavlik fight was dangled in front of him. Thats what really swayed my vote...

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Originally Posted by Galaxy

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Originally Posted by CFH

I voted for him to be removed from 160 and put in the pool at 160. With his weight problems I don't see any way he comes back down in weight, especially considering he's signed on for at least three fights at SMW. I will wish Arum would've put Pavlik in with him at 160, because that fight has all the making of a classic.

PS. This board fucking rules.

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I know he's signed on for these 168 fights but I'm sure there's an out clause if a bigger money fight comes along. I could see him returning to 160 if the Pavlik fight was dangled in front of him. Thats what really swayed my vote...

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I really doubt it, his promoter Sauerland was the key part of the Showtime deal & took on Kessler for it. Pavlik wasn't keen to fight him anyway, & I actually think this is now bigger. Combined with everything else, I'm certain that he won't be going back down. Like I said in the other thread we need to keep this fresh, it didn't look good Valero being ranked in a division he'd long made it clear he had no interest in for so long.

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Originally Posted by JazMerkin

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Originally Posted by Galaxy

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Originally Posted by CFH

I voted for him to be removed from 160 and put in the pool at 160. With his weight problems I don't see any way he comes back down in weight, especially considering he's signed on for at least three fights at SMW. I will wish Arum would've put Pavlik in with him at 160, because that fight has all the making of a classic.

PS. This board fucking rules.

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I know he's signed on for these 168 fights but I'm sure there's an out clause if a bigger money fight comes along. I could see him returning to 160 if the Pavlik fight was dangled in front of him. Thats what really swayed my vote...

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I really doubt it, his promoter Sauerland was the key part of the Showtime deal & took on Kessler for it. Pavlik wasn't keen to fight him anyway, & I actually think this is now bigger. Combined with everything else, I'm certain that he won't be going back down. Like I said in the other thread we need to keep this fresh, it didn't look good Valero being ranked in a division he'd long made it clear he had no interest in for so long.

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Your probably right, but stranger things have happened & its not beyond possibility. Maybe if a fighter makes it clear that they are going to campaign at another weight e.g. Campbell, Vasquez, Abraham, we keep them ranked for 4-6 months? from the time of their last fight at that weight before removing them.

Also if Abraham remained ranked at 160 it would not effect the chance for a champion to be crowned as Pavlik could fight anyone in the top 5 & it could qualify as a championship fight if the committee voted for it

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Originally Posted by Galaxy

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Originally Posted by CFH

I voted for him to be removed from 160 and put in the pool at 160. With his weight problems I don't see any way he comes back down in weight, especially considering he's signed on for at least three fights at SMW. I will wish Arum would've put Pavlik in with him at 160, because that fight has all the making of a classic.

PS. This board fucking rules.

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I know he's signed on for these 168 fights but I'm sure there's an out clause if a bigger money fight comes along. I could see him returning to 160 if the Pavlik fight was dangled in front of him. Thats what really swayed my vote...

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Pavlik (Arum really) was never going to make the Abraham fight happen, at least until he was a complete corpse at 160, which he was well on his way to becoming. I don't think he ever moves back down.

I'd like to propose that Williams fills the vacant 8th spot at 160. We have too many vacancies at that weight & with his dominating win over Winky Wright, I feel he's the most obvious candidate to take one of the spots.

Any other suggestions are welcome but we need to take care of some of these vacancies, but at the moment there's very few fights being made at 160 to do so.

I agree. I also think Macklin's upcoming fight in August should fill another spot, but Williams should definitely but ranked ahead!

Pick who you feel deserves the spot the most from the options out of the pool

I'm going with some new blood in Martirosyan, for me it was a hard choice between Vanes, Latimore & Moore.

I mean Latimore more or least fought to a standstill with Spinks, Moore has been on an impressive run & its arguable that Martirosyan has a better record than Arguello had (who fought Cintron in a qualifier for the vacant 10th spot at the time) & has a win over Billy Lyell who recently defeated Duddy...

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Originally Posted by Galaxy

I'm going with some new blood in Martirosyan, for me it was a hard choice between Vanes, Latimore & Moore.

I mean Latimore more or least fought to a standstill with Spinks, Moore has been on an impressive run & its arguable that Martirosyan has a better record than Arguello had (who fought Cintron in a qualifier for the vacant 10th spot at the time) & has a win over Billy Lyell who recently defeated Duddy...

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Well argued, I support the Vanes argument

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Originally Posted by Galaxy

I'm going with some new blood in Martirosyan, for me it was a hard choice between Vanes, Latimore & Moore.

I mean Latimore more or least fought to a standstill with Spinks, Moore has been on an impressive run & its arguable that Martirosyan has a better record than Arguello had (who fought Cintron in a qualifier for the vacant 10th spot at the time) & has a win over Billy Lyell who recently defeated Duddy...

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I guess you meant Angulo :cool:

I haven't been too impressed by him personally although the Hernandez win was very good. It was tough between Moore & Latimore for me, gave it to Moore just because he's kept winning against difficult opposition

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Originally Posted by JazMerkin

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Originally Posted by Galaxy

I'm going with some new blood in Martirosyan, for me it was a hard choice between Vanes, Latimore & Moore.

I mean Latimore more or least fought to a standstill with Spinks, Moore has been on an impressive run & its arguable that Martirosyan has a better record than Arguello had (who fought Cintron in a qualifier for the vacant 10th spot at the time) & has a win over Billy Lyell who recently defeated Duddy...

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I guess you meant Angulo :cool:

I haven't been too impressed by him personally although the Hernandez win was very good. It was tough between Moore & Latimore for me, gave it to Moore just because he's kept winning against difficult opposition

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I think Latimore needs to learn a few more tricks to get up there in the top 10, his fundamentals, conditioning and consistency are all there, he's just not quite there yet. I have no doubt that he will be.

Ever though he's been taken off the poll, I would have no problem with Cintron getting the spot.

Have to go with David Lopez no doubt.He was ranked in our Middleweight top ten prior to dropping down to 154 and is vastly improved despite record.His nickname is deceiving but I think he's a sleeper and very capable tricky boxer.Off win over Duran if I'm parsing who had lost close to James Kirkland & ko'd Moore although a few years ago....:-X.Lopez also beat Lyell.....by Tko.

I like Vanes but he is just getting his head above water and showing some consistency,still green and I think he's leagues behind Lopez.

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Originally Posted by CFH

Ever though he's been taken off the poll, I would have no problem with Cintron getting the spot.

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Cintron is already in at 9th

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Originally Posted by JazMerkin

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Originally Posted by CFH

Ever though he's been taken off the poll, I would have no problem with Cintron getting the spot.

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Cintron is already in at 9th

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:drool:

Vanes it is then.

Daaayuuumn, Britain's Own Jamie Moore™ is falling behind, what would Steve Bunce say??

Probably something ridiculous like this, but aimed at Vanes Martirosyan

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FqQZC...eature=related

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Originally Posted by Spicoli

Have to go with David Lopez no doubt.He was ranked in our Middleweight top ten prior to dropping down to 154 and is vastly improved despite record.His nickname is deceiving but I think he's a sleeper and very capable tricky boxer.Off win over Duran if I'm parsing who had lost close to James Kirkland & ko'd Moore although a few years ago....:-X.Lopez also beat Lyell.....by Tko.

I like Vanes but he is just getting his head above water and showing some consistency,still green and I think he's leagues behind Lopez.

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Good call on Lopez & everything you say is true, but he is ranked at middle & I'm still not entirely sure if his intentions still lie there or not

Old Super-Middleweight/Middleweight/Light-Middleweight threads to be merged in here

When he gives up his JMW title then he can be ranked at MW....How can you rank a fighter that does not campaign at the weight full time?

If that was the case AA should be ranked at SMW not just in the pool

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Originally Posted by DaxxKahn

When he gives up his JMW title then he can be ranked at MW....How can you rank a fighter that does not campaign at the weight full time?

If that was the case AA should be ranked at SMW not just in the pool

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Have to agree with that.In his case hes all over the map...and still talking Welterweight.Filling a 10th spot by vote is one thing but its ebbing upwards now?

Middle in particular does have many vacant spots and soon to be another as Lopez has stated that he will be campaigning at 154.

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Originally Posted by DaxxKahn

When he gives up his JMW title then he can be ranked at MW....How can you rank a fighter that does not campaign at the weight full time?

If that was the case AA should be ranked at SMW not just in the pool

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But Abraham has yet to fight at SMW. If he did fight there and beat a fighter of Winky's calibre, and if SMW was as weak a division as MW with several vacant rankings, I would have no problem with ranking Abraham at SMW.

I have no problem at all with fighters being ranked in more than one weight class if it's warranted. If they haven't fought in a division in more than a year they will be removed from those raknings.

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Originally Posted by Spicoli

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Originally Posted by DaxxKahn

When he gives up his JMW title then he can be ranked at MW....How can you rank a fighter that does not campaign at the weight full time?

If that was the case AA should be ranked at SMW not just in the pool

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Have to agree with that.In his case hes all over the map...and still talking Welterweight.Filling a 10th spot by vote is one thing but its ebbing upwards now?

Middle in particular does have many vacant spots and soon to be another as Lopez has stated that he will be campaigning at 154.

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There are 3 vacant spots in the division, one of which Williams will fill. We will then put forward other candidates to fill out the other vacant spots. This does require people to actually show up & vote though.

I gotta go with Moore, he has not lost since 2004 and he has beaten pretty good comp, he really only has 2 real losses the third was a DQ...

All old threads here

I'm all for seeing vacancies filled in a timely manner but dont like the idea of voting in that many fighters.The 10th spot is one thing but 3 is too many I believe.Clearly the division is in flux and I think we should think it through before we just start stuffing guys in as opposed to waiting for actual matches to determine ranks....I would leave at least one spot open.

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Originally Posted by Spicoli

I'm all for seeing vacancies filled in a timely manner but dont like the idea of voting in that many fighters.The 10th spot is one thing but 3 is too many I believe.Clearly the division is in flux and I think we should think it through before we just start stuffing guys in as opposed to waiting for actual matches to determine ranks....I would leave at least one spot open.

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I personally have no problem with voting for positions, most of the active managers are pretty fair & can put forward a good case for a nominee.

I think Williams' win over Wright was worthy of rating, I also think the winner of the upcoming Macklin/ Barker fight could qualify for another spot. Then someone like Geale could be possible for 10th...

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Originally Posted by Galaxy

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Originally Posted by Spicoli

I'm all for seeing vacancies filled in a timely manner but dont like the idea of voting in that many fighters.The 10th spot is one thing but 3 is too many I believe.Clearly the division is in flux and I think we should think it through before we just start stuffing guys in as opposed to waiting for actual matches to determine ranks....I would leave at least one spot open.

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I personally have no problem with voting for positions, most of the active managers are pretty fair & can put forward a good case for a nominee.

I think Williams' win over Wright was worthy of rating, I also think the winner of the upcoming Macklin/ Barker fight could qualify for another spot. Then someone like Geale could be possible for 10th...

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Well mate that is what the vote is for.....Each of our opps are going to vary slightly but for the most part we will get a fair ranking for the fighters.....

I agree though about more managers needing to show up on a regular basis

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Originally Posted by Galaxy

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Originally Posted by Spicoli

I'm all for seeing vacancies filled in a timely manner but dont like the idea of voting in that many fighters.The 10th spot is one thing but 3 is too many I believe.Clearly the division is in flux and I think we should think it through before we just start stuffing guys in as opposed to waiting for actual matches to determine ranks....I would leave at least one spot open.

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I personally have no problem with voting for positions, most of the active managers are pretty fair & can put forward a good case for a nominee.

I think Williams' win over Wright was worthy of rating, I also think the winner of the upcoming Macklin/ Barker fight could qualify for another spot. Then someone like Geale could be possible for 10th...

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I'm not trying to swim up a waterfall here and I'm not opposed to nominating a fight prior to it taking place as a vacancy filler.And of course I have no doubt in the managers ability and fairness.

I have just been rethinking the rush to fill all three spots and see no harm in actually having at least one stay open.Let things play out and not construct a ranking spot.Who knows what matchup is in the works,pool members or otherwise that will warrant definite ranking.

BTW My vote is no and am not sure why this poll is closed.Numbers maybe one thing but it is still being discussed and managers putting forth opinion !! Not cool

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Originally Posted by Spicoli

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Originally Posted by Galaxy

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Originally Posted by Spicoli

I'm all for seeing vacancies filled in a timely manner but dont like the idea of voting in that many fighters.The 10th spot is one thing but 3 is too many I believe.Clearly the division is in flux and I think we should think it through before we just start stuffing guys in as opposed to waiting for actual matches to determine ranks....I would leave at least one spot open.

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I personally have no problem with voting for positions, most of the active managers are pretty fair & can put forward a good case for a nominee.

I think Williams' win over Wright was worthy of rating, I also think the winner of the upcoming Macklin/ Barker fight could qualify for another spot. Then someone like Geale could be possible for 10th...

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I'm not trying to swim up a waterfall here and I'm not opposed to nominating a fight prior to it taking place as a vacancy filler.And of course I have no doubt in the managers ability and fairness.

I have just been rethinking the rush to fill all three spots and see no harm in actually having at least one stay open.Let things play out and not construct a ranking spot.Who knows what matchup is in the works,pool members or otherwise that will warrant definite ranking.

BTW My vote is no and am not sure why this poll is closed.Numbers maybe one thing but it is still being discussed and managers putting forth opinion !! Not cool

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All votes are open for 3 days, that was pre-agreed rule, particularly as it makes it a lot easier for Galaxy to do the weekly updates before the next week of fights. I believe that we should fill all vacancies & a vote agreed that so we should stick to it, at least for a bit, rather than doing the same vote a week later. However, 3 vacancies in a weight-class is too much, & considering Williams may well be fighting our #1 next, I can't see the problem with him being there particularly as he beat Winky who for some reason was ranked at 154 despite not having fought there in 5 years rather than 160 where he's been for all but 1 fight since.

Like Jaz said, all polls will last for 3 days, but even with Spicoli's vote it would be 4 to 2 for Williams filling #8... so he's in!

As for filling vacancies; that was also approved by a vote, so we should stick with it for awhile at least & trial it

I remember Spicoli bringing up the idea of voting to fill the heavyweight spots as he thought having Haye ranked & Arreola in the pool looked a little strange... at least with a vote to fill spots we get fighters ranked who the majority of managers agree with

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Originally Posted by Galaxy

Like Jaz said, all polls will last for 3 days, but even with Spicoli's vote it would be 4 to 2 for Williams filling #8... so he's in!

As for filling vacancies; that was also approved by a vote, so we should stick with it for awhile at least & trial it

I remember Spicoli bringing up the idea of voting to fill the heavyweight spots as he thought having Haye ranked & Arreola in the pool looked a little strange... at least with a vote to fill spots we get fighters ranked who the majority of managers agree with

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Understood on the time frame for polls but discussion never hurt anything.I had not voted yet because the idea of Williams in the top ten was not all that bad,just not a vote for an 8th spot in hindsight for a fight that had already happened.Would we have aforded Wright the same placement? I am for filling vancancies but with three in any division,I feel we need to let things sort out,wait and see what big fights may be made at least for a while and leave at least one open?Was it 6 months on a vacant spot?

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Originally Posted by Spicoli

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Originally Posted by Galaxy

Like Jaz said, all polls will last for 3 days, but even with Spicoli's vote it would be 4 to 2 for Williams filling #8... so he's in!

As for filling vacancies; that was also approved by a vote, so we should stick with it for awhile at least & trial it

I remember Spicoli bringing up the idea of voting to fill the heavyweight spots as he thought having Haye ranked & Arreola in the pool looked a little strange... at least with a vote to fill spots we get fighters ranked who the majority of managers agree with

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Understood on the time frame for polls but discussion never hurt anything.I had not voted yet because the idea of Williams in the top ten was not all that bad,just not a vote for an 8th spot in hindsight for a fight that had already happened.Would we have aforded Wright the same placement? I am for filling vancancies but with three in any division,I feel we need to let things sort out,wait and see what big fights may be made at least for a while and leave at least one open?Was it 6 months on a vacant spot?

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Don't remember deciding on a time frame for vacant spots? I remember something about 6 months for pool members...

With the way fighters earn their ranks they have to beat those ahead of them, so essentially those ranked lower will be pushed down anyway

On your question about giving Wright the same placement... if Wright had beat Williams & we just voted as we did I think I would have voted for Wright to fill the vacancy

If it makes you feel better we can include an option in the future votes for vacancies to leave it vacant, that way you can have your say if that's how you feel?

We have discussions of a very possible Pavlik vs. Williams fight.....why force a vote on the past wright fight as opposed to Williams fighting his way in against the top ranked Middle guy?

Where is the manager of the division?Would like to see Tams input on filling these spots.

I would propose that in the future all vacant spots are left open for a minimal amount of time prior to a vote on an upcoming fight to fill a vacant spot.Leaves room for natural flexibility...think Darwin ;D.Bud...I think its the number of spots and hindsight voting that are getting me.Just seems, with much respect,manufactured a bit.Not trying to break balls here and dont want to get bogged down.Just voicing opinion.

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Originally Posted by Spicoli

We have discussions of a very possible Pavlik vs. Williams fight.....why force a vote on the past wright fight as opposed to Williams fighting his way in against the top ranked Middle guy?

Where is the manager of the division?Would like to see Tams input on filling these spots.

I would propose that in the future all vacant spots are left open for a minimal amount of time prior to a vote on an upcoming fight to fill a vacant spot.Leaves room for natural flexibility...think Darwin ;D.Bud...I think its the number of spots and hindsight voting that are getting me.Just seems, with much respect,manufactured a bit.Not trying to break balls here and dont want to get bogged down.Just voicing opinion.

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Where oh where could little Tam be? At this point I don't think his input is very valid as he has been very inactive.

The thing with waiting for the result of Pavlik/ Williams is that if Williams loses he probably gets removed from the pool... right? Whereas if he enters the fight as our number 8 guy he has the opportunity the be demoted with a lose & still possible be ranked.

imo 8 is a very fair entry for Williams... The Ring has him at 5!

I remember we did the same thing Antillon for the 10th spot at 135 at the time based on his 2 previous fights at lightweight that had already happened... do I sense some favoritism? Or is your boy Urbano exempt?

If you like put up a poll to see if other members feel we should have a time limit before voting to fill vacancies. But I feel filling the vacancies as soon as they become vacant is the best way to go, it gives us a complete top 10, based on the majority of the active managers opinions & creates opportunities for guys fighting those we voted in to win/ earn ranking...

This poll has now closed

We have a drawn vote

Vanes Martirosyan recieved 3 votes worth 3 points

Jamie Moore recieved 2 votes (Plus Jaz' bonus point as manager) worth 3 points


Jaz its your call... who gets the vacant spot?

Sorry man, but I'm gonna have to stick with my original vote of Moore, although I do feel bad about it given voting numbers, as I just feel Martirosyan hasn't been beating fighters of the same quality. Moore also appears to be fighting Sergio Martinez in September so looks the most likely to be stepping up to world level soon.