Paul Williams pricing himself out of Pavlik fight

From Dan Rafael of ESPN.COM/Boxing


"Williams could land a big fall fight with middleweight champ Kelly Pavlik, but only if Williams' camp -- promoter Dan Goossen and manager Al Haymon -- comes to the realization that it's Pavlik who generates the money. Williams always says nobody will fight him, but now Pavlik is willing to give his side more than $1.5 million. That apparently isn't enough, even though Williams doesn't bring all that much to the table economically. If Williams wants a significant fight and wants to fight for the title, he's going to have to be financially realistic. If the fight doesn't happen, it's the fault of Williams & Co., not Pavlik."

"HBO has offered about $3.75 million for[the fight]. The sides are arguing over the revenue split, but hopefully sanity will prevail and they can make what would be one of the biggest fights of the year. "

As much as i like Paul Williams I think Pavlik will be too much for him and maybe he is realizing that hence pricing himself out.....Pavlik is the big name at middleweight and the unified champ.

If this fight comes off I think pavlik by TKO in rounds 10-12...

I think Williams would do a number on Pavlik!

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Originally Posted by BIG H

I think Williams would do a number on Pavlik!

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I think so too. After that dominant display against Winky I think it would be quite easy.

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Originally Posted by boozeboxer

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Originally Posted by BIG H

I think Williams would do a number on Pavlik!

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I think so too. After that dominant display against Winky I think it would be quite easy.

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I don't think it would be easy at all, but i do think PW has what it takes to win.

Can i just state that the status of boxing right now from middleweight to super middleweight is so freaking sad considering the fights that could be made..

You have Froch that just came over to the US because he wanted to gain some exposure, beats Taylor in a huge fight, now is fighting Dirrell in the UK. Is this guy the mandatory or something? If not, it seems QUITE pointless to me compared to other fights he should be looking for.

Then Kessler who could fight a number of guys to make a real entertaining fight, Bute/Pavlik/Abraham/Froch etc.. and doesn't.

For super middleweight you have: Kess, abraham, pavlik (if he moved up to fight), bute (tentatively fighting andrade), Froch, Bika, taylor, allan green.

Middleweight: paul williams, pavlik, mundine, sturm.

Why are none of these guys fighting each other?!!?

Willimas will beat Pavlik imo.

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Originally Posted by RP33

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Originally Posted by boozeboxer

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Originally Posted by BIG H

I think Williams would do a number on Pavlik!

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I think so too. After that dominant display against Winky I think it would be quite easy.

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I don't think it would be easy at all, but i do think PW has what it takes to win.

Can i just state that the status of boxing right now from middleweight to super middleweight is so freaking sad considering the fights that could be made..

You have Froch that just came over to the US because he wanted to gain some exposure, beats Taylor in a huge fight, now is fighting Dirrell in the UK. Is this guy the mandatory or something? If not, it seems QUITE pointless to me compared to other fights he should be looking for.

Then Kessler who could fight a number of guys to make a real entertaining fight, Bute/Pavlik/Abraham/Froch etc.. and doesn't.

For super middleweight you have: Kess, abraham, pavlik (if he moved up to fight), bute (tentatively fighting andrade), Froch, Bika, taylor, allan green.

Middleweight: paul williams, pavlik, mundine, sturm.

Why are none of these guys fighting each other?!!?

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i'm an idiot.. just read about the super middleweight tournament.. whats more awesome than that?

carry on.

I'm a big fan of Williams and I do not like Pavlik, but I don't think the Punisher takes this one. As good as he is, he still gets hit regularly and Pavlik has the power to hurt him everytime he lands flush; I doubt Williams can hurt Pavlik.

Pavlik by TKO in a fight where he takes a ton of punches but still comes out on top.

Well if this fight gets made, Kelly needs to make sure that he gets most of the purse, because he'll probably lose most of it when he gets sued for breach of contract by Sergio.

Hope this gets made It would be a cracker, Williams could do with more big fights it can only boost his popularity

i hope not. Paul knows he needs the fight more than he does the money. winning the ring belt at 160 will push him up on the p4p rankings and maybe get better fights. hopefully it gets worked out.

Williams is a freak of nature, a southpaw throwing more than 1000 punches a fight with a more than average power... I think that Pavlik will get overwhelmed in the middle of the race and lose this one.

Paul takes this quite easily i'm afraid. Kelly ABSOLUTELY NEEDS to set his feet before he punches, Williams gives a million angels and has superb movement as well as extreme volume.

All BHop did to Pavlik was give angles and movements with half the volume Williams does.. this will be an absolute wash, Paul will get hit but by nothing devastating..

Pavlik will get frustrated and a bit unraveled by round 5 or 6 and will sell out more and will get stopped by about 10-11 either by the ref or Lowe will stop it on the stool

i think this is more a case of Williams is frustrated and tired of being billed "unmarketable" due to the fact that everyone avoids him, IMO Williams could and should take Pavlik by decision or even mid round TKO, i think his output and awkward style will give Pavlik all sorts of problems

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Originally Posted by kingfrnk

i hope not. Paul knows he needs the fight more than he does the money. winning the ring belt at 160 will push him up on the p4p rankings and maybe get better fights. hopefully it gets worked out.

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Pretty similar to what I was going to post. PW needs this fight as much as the MW div. in general needs it.

He wins; which there is a hell of a good chance he does if he can keep it in the center all night and move, then he is king. It will set up a rematch and will at least keep some excitement in the MW div.; though too bad for PW and Pavlik as it is bleak there; but Paul can move back to JMW and still make noise there. He can become a superstar. He isn't making any $$$ sitting there so he might as well take the fight; unless I'm missing something.

Still; a helluva' fight to look forward to and I hope it happens.

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Originally Posted by Diane

Well if this fight gets made, Kelly needs to make sure that he gets most of the purse, because he'll probably lose most of it when he gets sued for breach of contract by Sergio.

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I agree, why the heck isn't Pavlik moving forward with that fight? The contract has been made. Pavlik and his people have a lot of nerve talking about people pricing themselves out or ducking when they can't even honor a contract for Pavlik's middleweight title, shouldn't he have been stripped by now?

I think the split should be about 2mil for Pavlik and 1.75 for Paul Williams. Unless its gonna be in Ohio, then Pavlik should get a little more because he will bring in a decent following.

I think Paul Williams will "punish" Pavlik. If he can avoid Pavliks jab and right he's got it pretty much locked up. Pavlik is very 1 dimensional. B-Hop showed that.

LOL, PWill is crazy, he is not a draw, that is a generous split, surprisingly generous.

Hopefully people will come to their senses and it will all get worked out.

No Contest, no matter where it is, but especially since its in Atlantic City, Pavlik will sell the tickets.

Williams will definitely get the short end of the purse but if he ever wants to be a draw himself and give himself a profile and negotiating leverage for big purses/fights down the road then this is a fight he should take, crap deal or not. Against a name people know, on HBO, definitely a winnable fight for him. He should just sign the contract. At this moment there are no outstanding options for him out there, Pavlik is probablt the least worst option for him.

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Originally Posted by Diane

Well if this fight gets made, Kelly needs to make sure that he gets most of the purse, because he'll probably lose most of it when he gets sued for breach of contract by Sergio.

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What exactly happened between Kelly and Sergio ? Did Kelly just pull the plug on the contract ?

As for Kelly-PW, Williams finishes were Bernard Hopkins left off and beats him quite easy IMO.

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Originally Posted by Majesty

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Originally Posted by Diane

Well if this fight gets made, Kelly needs to make sure that he gets most of the purse, because he'll probably lose most of it when he gets sued for breach of contract by Sergio.

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I agree, why the heck isn't Pavlik moving forward with that fight? The contract has been made. Pavlik and his people have a lot of nerve talking about people pricing themselves out or ducking when they can't even honor a contract for Pavlik's middleweight title, shouldn't he have been stripped by now?

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I don't know what their reason is for not honoring it, but I think it's bull$hit. If he doesn't honor the contract, I'm going to lose a lot of respect for him, which I hate to say, because I've been following his career for a long time, since he's a local guy. Between this, and his stupid a$$ comments about the SMW tournament, he has been turning me off lately. His attitude, and behavior is not becoming of the working class people he says that he represents. Here, your word, or even a handshake means something when you make a deal, and here he is, not even honoring a written contract.

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Originally Posted by leftylee

What exactly happened between Kelly and Sergio ? Did Kelly just pull the plug on the contract ?

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Well the contract is still valid actually. They both signed the contract, and in the contract it states that neither of them could take a fight beforehand. Sergio started training, and they were supposed to have the official press conference to announce the fight on the day of the Hatton/Pac fight. But 2 days before that, Pavlik said he wasn't coming, and they resceduled it for the next week. And just before the rescheduled conference could happen, that's when the bout was cancelled because of the bullshit staph infection story.

Sergio was then told that the fight would take place in September. Well nothing was happening, and then all the talk about Pavlik fighting other guys started, and Sergio was like WTF?

So now, Sergio can't take a fight, because then he would be breaching his contract. So he's sitting idle, when he should be fighting. If, and when Pavlik signs to fight someone other than Sergio. Sergio's lawyer is slapping a breach of contract lawsuit on Top Rank, Team Pavlik, and even Tournament of Contenders, because TOC hasn't done $hit to push things along.

Like I said in another thread I’m very interested in this fight. Both, KP but especially PW, have such a workrate that they could generate a FOTY.
So I really don’t care how they split the money, I just wanted happened.

I am a Williams fan but him and/or his team needs to realize that Pavlik is the champion and the bigger draw and therefore should get the bigger end of the split. They are offering him $1.5 million of the $3.75 million so I think that is a fair split given that Paul does not have a very big following. There is little chance of any of the big name welters ever fighting him, there are no big names at 154, and Pavlik is the only big name at 160. So, this is literally the only big fight available to Williams for the foreseeable future. He has the frame to go up to 168 but even there all the cash cows are tied up in the tourney. If Paul turns this down he has no where else to go for a big fight/pay day for the foreseeable future. If he takes the fight and wins (which I believe he would) then that puts him a little more in the drivers seat. He needs to take the $1.5 million and not blow this. It will be a huge mistake for his career if he prices himself out.

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Originally Posted by Diane

Well if this fight gets made, Kelly needs to make sure that he gets most of the purse, because he'll probably lose most of it when he gets sued for breach of contract by Sergio.

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The fight would obviously not be signed unless the issue with Sergio was settled. Dan Rafael stated in his chat that he does not believe it will be an issue. I realize you know Sergio and he may be telling you that Pavlik has to fight him and he won't back down but Sergio ain't a lawyer or a negotiator and it sounds to me like he'll end up getting some step aside money whether he wants it that way or not.

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Originally Posted by No Contest

I think the split should be about 2mil for Pavlik and 1.75 for Paul Williams. Unless its gonna be in Ohio, then Pavlik should get a little more because he will bring in a decent following.

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But Pavlik will bring a decent following in Atlantic City too.

Pavlik will generate the lion's share of the ticket revenue regardless of location.

Williams should take what he's offered, beat Pavlik & by doing so raise his stock, the big fights should certainly open up if he were to defeat the middleweight champion

He's always saying no one wants to fight him, he's got an offer here, take it & win it!

I hope its just positioning at the moment & things get sorted cause it is a really good fight if it can get done!

Sorry Diane but I'm sure Pavlik had an out clause should a bigger fight come along & no offense to Mora but Williams is a bigger fight!

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Originally Posted by Diane

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Originally Posted by Majesty

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Originally Posted by Diane

Well if this fight gets made, Kelly needs to make sure that he gets most of the purse, because he'll probably lose most of it when he gets sued for breach of contract by Sergio.

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I agree, why the heck isn't Pavlik moving forward with that fight? The contract has been made. Pavlik and his people have a lot of nerve talking about people pricing themselves out or ducking when they can't even honor a contract for Pavlik's middleweight title, shouldn't he have been stripped by now?

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I don't know what their reason is for not honoring it, but I think it's bull$hit. If he doesn't honor the contract, I'm going to lose a lot of respect for him, which I hate to say, because I've been following his career for a long time, since he's a local guy. Between this, and his stupid a$$ comments about the SMW tournament, he has been turning me off lately. His attitude, and behavior is not becoming of the working class people he says that he represents. Here, your word, or even a handshake means something when you make a deal, and here he is, not even honoring a written contract.

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Originally Posted by leftylee

What exactly happened between Kelly and Sergio ? Did Kelly just pull the plug on the contract ?

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Well the contract is still valid actually. They both signed the contract, and in the contract it states that neither of them could take a fight beforehand. Sergio started training, and they were supposed to have the official press conference to announce the fight on the day of the Hatton/Pac fight. But 2 days before that, Pavlik said he wasn't coming, and they resceduled it for the next week. And just before the rescheduled conference could happen, that's when the bout was cancelled because of the bullshit staph infection story.

Sergio was then told that the fight would take place in September. Well nothing was happening, and then all the talk about Pavlik fighting other guys started, and Sergio was like WTF?

So now, Sergio can't take a fight, because then he would be breaching his contract. So he's sitting idle, when he should be fighting. If, and when Pavlik signs to fight someone other than Sergio. Sergio's lawyer is slapping a breach of contract lawsuit on Top Rank, Team Pavlik, and even Tournament of Contenders, because TOC hasn't done $hit to push things along.

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Sergio may be in the right here, but leaving out the contractual issues I'd prefer to see KP fighting someone else. There have been talks of him against Bute or Balszay at 168 or Sturm at 160 ESPN.com's division-by-division rankings - ESPN. I'd prefer any of those options to a fight with Sergio. Nothing against Sergio, but he won't hurt KP and the only way he can win is by making the fight a boring fight.

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Originally Posted by Rantcatrat

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Originally Posted by Diane

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Originally Posted by Majesty

I agree, why the heck isn't Pavlik moving forward with that fight? The contract has been made. Pavlik and his people have a lot of nerve talking about people pricing themselves out or ducking when they can't even honor a contract for Pavlik's middleweight title, shouldn't he have been stripped by now?

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I don't know what their reason is for not honoring it, but I think it's bull$hit. If he doesn't honor the contract, I'm going to lose a lot of respect for him, which I hate to say, because I've been following his career for a long time, since he's a local guy. Between this, and his stupid a$$ comments about the SMW tournament, he has been turning me off lately. His attitude, and behavior is not becoming of the working class people he says that he represents. Here, your word, or even a handshake means something when you make a deal, and here he is, not even honoring a written contract.

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Originally Posted by leftylee

What exactly happened between Kelly and Sergio ? Did Kelly just pull the plug on the contract ?

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Well the contract is still valid actually. They both signed the contract, and in the contract it states that neither of them could take a fight beforehand. Sergio started training, and they were supposed to have the official press conference to announce the fight on the day of the Hatton/Pac fight. But 2 days before that, Pavlik said he wasn't coming, and they resceduled it for the next week. And just before the rescheduled conference could happen, that's when the bout was cancelled because of the bullshit staph infection story.

Sergio was then told that the fight would take place in September. Well nothing was happening, and then all the talk about Pavlik fighting other guys started, and Sergio was like WTF?

So now, Sergio can't take a fight, because then he would be breaching his contract. So he's sitting idle, when he should be fighting. If, and when Pavlik signs to fight someone other than Sergio. Sergio's lawyer is slapping a breach of contract lawsuit on Top Rank, Team Pavlik, and even Tournament of Contenders, because TOC hasn't done $hit to push things along.

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Sergio may be in the right here, but leaving out the contractual issues I'd prefer to see KP fighting someone else. There have been talks of him against Bute or Balszay at 168 or Sturm at 160 ESPN.com's division-by-division rankings - ESPN. I'd prefer any of those options to a fight with Sergio. Nothing against Sergio, but he won't hurt KP and the only way he can win is by making the fight a boring fight.

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The ringtv.com reported today that Pavlik is also negotiating with Winky Wright. Strum has been removed from consideration after announcing that he will not fight again until 2010.

Bob Arum is a Harvard lawyer. If there was a way to wiggle out of the Mora contract, I am sure he could find it. It seems like the Pavlik camp believes that the "injury" voided the contract.

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Originally Posted by Lance Uppercut

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Originally Posted by Rantcatrat

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Originally Posted by Diane

I don't know what their reason is for not honoring it, but I think it's bull$hit. If he doesn't honor the contract, I'm going to lose a lot of respect for him, which I hate to say, because I've been following his career for a long time, since he's a local guy. Between this, and his stupid a$$ comments about the SMW tournament, he has been turning me off lately. His attitude, and behavior is not becoming of the working class people he says that he represents. Here, your word, or even a handshake means something when you make a deal, and here he is, not even honoring a written contract.



Well the contract is still valid actually. They both signed the contract, and in the contract it states that neither of them could take a fight beforehand. Sergio started training, and they were supposed to have the official press conference to announce the fight on the day of the Hatton/Pac fight. But 2 days before that, Pavlik said he wasn't coming, and they resceduled it for the next week. And just before the rescheduled conference could happen, that's when the bout was cancelled because of the bullshit staph infection story.

Sergio was then told that the fight would take place in September. Well nothing was happening, and then all the talk about Pavlik fighting other guys started, and Sergio was like WTF?

So now, Sergio can't take a fight, because then he would be breaching his contract. So he's sitting idle, when he should be fighting. If, and when Pavlik signs to fight someone other than Sergio. Sergio's lawyer is slapping a breach of contract lawsuit on Top Rank, Team Pavlik, and even Tournament of Contenders, because TOC hasn't done $hit to push things along.

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Sergio may be in the right here, but leaving out the contractual issues I'd prefer to see KP fighting someone else. There have been talks of him against Bute or Balszay at 168 or Sturm at 160 ESPN.com's division-by-division rankings - ESPN. I'd prefer any of those options to a fight with Sergio. Nothing against Sergio, but he won't hurt KP and the only way he can win is by making the fight a boring fight.

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The ringtv.com reported today that Pavlik is also negotiating with Winky Wright. Strum has been removed from consideration after announcing that he will not fight again until 2010.

Bob Arum is a Harvard lawyer. If there was a way to wiggle out of the Mora contract, I am sure he could find it. It seems like the Pavlik camp believes that the "injury" voided the contract.

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The thing is, the so called "injury" was bull$hit, Kelly came out and admitted it himself when the fight was cancelled. Kelly had begun training as well, and said the that staph infection had been cleared up long ago. He and his team were just as confused when it was cancelled.

It got cancelled because Pavlik and Top Rank weren't coming to terms with his new contract yet. So I don't know if a fake injury can void a contract.

According to Sergio's lawyers, he has an airtight case, because if he didn't, Sergio wouldn't be standing his ground, and would be looking for another fight. And if this fight was so easy to get out of, it would of happened by now, but this has been going on for 2 1/2 months now.

Sure they can offer step aside money, but Sergio has to accept it, which I doubt he will. It would have to be a $hit load of money, because he has wasted a lot of time, and he could have gotten a fight in, therefore, he's already missed out on one paycheck.

I know a lot of you guys would rather see Pavlik fight someone else, and I know that there are bigger fights out there, but Pavlik agreed to the fight, he signed the contract, and if he was an honorable man, he would keep his word and fight him.

Seriously, how would have Pavlik felt if Taylor would have pulled this bull$hit on him for their first fight. You finally get the fight that you've been wanting, you get a signed contract, then all of the sudden the other guy screws you over for no legitimate reason. It's not right. Whether it's the best fight out there or not, it shouldn't matter, you honor a contract.